Russian 3M22 Tsirkon Hypersonic Missile

TR1

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Orel was repaired and got some minor modernization. It was never modernized to 949AM standard involving the weapons system swap.
 

Marcellogo

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It is still possible to house 3 Oniks in a Granit launcher , so I wonder if it would be possible to do the same with Slava class missile launchers.
 

DWG

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It is still possible to house 3 Oniks in a Granit launcher , so I wonder if it would be possible to do the same with Slava class missile launchers.
Not a Slava, but they're supposed to be doing it to Petr Veliky in his refit. I would imagine it's possible for the box-launchers on the Slavas but we might not see the three for one swap.
 

DWG

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Orel was repaired and got some minor modernization. It was never modernized to 949AM standard involving the weapons system swap.
Which would explain that, same as Tver got a refit but not to 949AM. I think that reduces 949AM to just Irkutsk and Chelyabinsk, then.
 

Dilandu

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That’s weird. Why wouldn’t it get an upgrade for the latest weapons? Granit seems unnecessarily large in this day and age; I can’t imagine retaining any tubes for that purpose when there’s already a half dozen Oscars that don’t have an upgrade.
Mainly because while it's large, it's still one of the deadliest anti-ship missiles in the world, far beyond anything anyone else have.
 

Dilandu

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It is still possible to house 3 Oniks in a Granit launcher , so I wonder if it would be possible to do the same with Slava class missile launchers.
Slava-class cruiser did not have P-700 Granits; they initially carry P-500 Bazalt, and now P-1000 Vulkan. Those missiles, while similar in capabilities to Granit, are not compatible.

(P-500 Bazalt was developed as successor of P-35 Progress cruise missile, for the same launchers. P-700 Granit was developed initially as submarine-launched weapon. Since P-700 Granit was more advanced than P-500 Bazalt, it was also adopted for the large surface combatants)
 

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Russia’s Tsirkon hypersonic missile strikes naval target in White Sea test-launch

According to Russia’s Defense Ministry, the recording equipment data show that the hypersonic missile’s flight complied with the designated parameters and the target was destroyed by a direct hit

Tsirkon hypersonic missile test-launched Russian Ministry of Defense/TASS

Tsirkon hypersonic missile test-launched
© Russian Ministry of Defense/TASS
MOSCOW, November 18. /TASS/. A Tsirkon hypersonic missile test-launched from the Northern Fleet’s frigate Admiral Gorshkov struck a naval target in the White Sea with a direct hit, Russia’s Defense Ministry reported on Thursday.
"The recording equipment data show that the hypersonic missile’s flight complied with the designated parameters. The target was destroyed by a direct hit," the ministry said.
As Russia’s Defense Ministry specified, the hypersonic missile was test-fired against a sea target position in the White Sea.
"The Northern Fleet involved its surface ships and naval aviation to provide for the test-firings and close off the area," the ministry said.

A source earlier told TASS that the state trials of the Tsirkon hypersonic missile would begin in November and continue in December. Overall, five test-launches against sea and coastal targets are planned. On August 24, 2021, a contract was signed at the Army 2021 international arms show on the delivery of Tsirkon hypersonic missiles to the Russian troops.
 

GARGEAN

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Accodring to very "nice" article that was posted on this forum not long ago russians already used around whole yearly supply of serial production rate of Zirkon missiles in those tests.
 

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Is it normal to fire this many test articles for a missile program? Do the Russians ever announce the goals of individual tests? Clearly fired from a sub and ship are very different things that will require their own separate test programs but haven’t there been a dozen tests now? I feel like LRASM had like three end to end tests, though admittedly it flies a much simplified flight regime and only from one platform type.
 

sferrin

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Is it normal to fire this many test articles for a missile program? Do the Russians ever announce the goals of individual tests? Clearly fired from a sub and ship are very different things that will require their own separate test programs but haven’t there been a dozen tests now? I feel like LRASM had like three end to end tests, though admittedly it flies a much simplified flight regime and only from one platform type.
It used to be normal in the US. LRASM is basically JASSM with a different guidance system. They've probably got thousands of hours test time with the seeker mounted on an aircraft/drone. All they were testing with the LRASM flights, really, was if the integration was good.

Re. testing here's a sample of Sprint & Spartan tests:




They don't test as much now, because if a thing isn't immediately successful they cancel it. This is why we're still using the half-century old Tomahawk instead of any of the plethora of supersonic/hypersonic programs since then.
 

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Is it normal to fire this many test articles for a missile program?
This is a completely new type of missile weapon that has never been used in any army in the world before. So yeah it's ok
Why do they conduct Cirkons tests only on such a short range of 400 km, if the missile has a range of over 1000 km? which is almost 3 times larger
 

Marcellogo

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Testing a new weapon in Russia is a very long and exhaustive process, essentially for two reasons.
First one is that they doesn't have (because they DON'T want it) something equivalent to an IOC and LRIP production phase so they keep on testing until all the things of a new weapon is settled and declare them to be "in service" only when all the maintenance could be fully serviced by their own logistical structure (i.e. if the F-35 was their, it would still take YEARS before to be declared so, even with 500 actually operative).
Su-35 bombed three years in Syria before being declared "in Service".
Second, they are doctrine centered: state test doesn't just ascertain if a weapon is technically ready to be used but how to use it tactically, how to deploy, refurbish and train people to make the most out of them.
Needless to say: the more a weapon is innovative and "with no equivalent in the world" (to cite their most abused slogan), the more this last phase will take time.
So they have a LOT of new weapons that have passed the STATE TRIALS and reached the most sought letter O (i.e. ready for mass production) but are still mired in the SECOND STATE TEST phase (i.e. the one that have to ascertain how they will fit in the service) but for them this is not such a bad new...
Quite the contrary, it means that they have really innovative and game changing weaponries up into their sleeves (while the previous one are still in full production).
 
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Cordy

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FWIW the mouth watering expensive joint Army Long Range Hypersonic Missile/Navy Conventional Prompt Strike missile program, the Pentagon recent budget estimate of $28.5 billion is for 88 development/test missiles and 218 operational missiles, total 306, 29% development/test missiles.

 

Josh_TN

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Wow, 88 seems like a vast number of test/development missiles for any US program. That would probably cover every SM-3/THAAD test ever performed with room to spare, and that represents a couple of the longest, most technically challenging missile programs the US has had.

Fair points all on the new weapon pushing the envelop and the Russians having different testing regimes.
 

bring_it_on

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Wow, 88 seems like a vast number of test/development missiles for any US program. That would probably cover every SM-3/THAAD test ever performed with room to spare, and that represents a couple of the longest, most technically challenging missile programs the US has had.

Fair points all on the new weapon pushing the envelop and the Russians having different testing regimes.

Moving the reply to the last two posts in the US Hypersonic Weapon Thread:

 
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Scar

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Is it normal to fire this many test articles for a missile program?
This is a completely new type of missile weapon that has never been used in any army in the world before. So yeah it's ok
Why do they conduct Cirkons tests only on such a short range of 400 km, if the missile has a range of over 1000 km? which is almost 3 times larger
Probably coz it's pretty hard to make a 1000km restricted zone in international waters. Even if it's an Arctic Ocean. And, after all, this wouldn't make much sense. Usually ASM's are not being tested on their full range.

 

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