Re-arming the Bundeswehr: Which Projects?

KMW and Elbit Systems intensify Rocket Artillery Cooperation
02.12.2022

After having signed an MoU (Memorandum of Understanding in June this year, Krauss-Maffei Wegmann (KMW), Ulm based defence company Elbit Systems Deutschland and Elbit Systems Land have agreed to intensify their strategic cooperation.

Background is the modernisation and the capability extension of the European Multiple Launch Rocket System (MLRS / MARS II). Elbit provides a modern effector portfolio, to fully comply with the MLRS-User demands from extended range rockets to new training ammunition which will enable the user to “train as you fight” on national proving grounds.

KMW and Elbit have established the concept “Euro-PULS” for the next generation European Long Range Rocket Artillery as the successor system for the MLRS. This concept has already been offered to the first European customers. The Euro-PULS system is based on Elbit Systems’ operational and in-service Multi-Purpose Universal Launching System (PULS) and a range of precision guided munitions. KMW complements the Euro-PULS with decades of know-how as system house and vast experience in building and customizing (rocket) artillery systems complying European standards. This provides the capability to integrate every rocket according to User’s requirements. Both companies envision a local rocket production to ensure Europe’s independence.

This means a Future Rocket Artillery System made in Europe.
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Euro-PULS.jpg
View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=t152AJcJrNc
 
Grey Havoc said:
In something of a desperate PR move:
https://www.reddit.com/r/TankPorn/comments/ze2a9w
View: https://www.reddit.com/r/TankPorn/comments/ze2a9w/german_chancellor_olaf_scholz_poses_with_a/
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That picture was already taken and published in summer. With all the terrible PR, the extremely chaotic and sometimes kafkaesque decision making in Germany and the failures to achieve set goals immediately, many of us often seem to miss what kind of a change this current phase of the Russo-Ukrainian war (the war started already in 2014 or even 1918 as some claim) has already brought about in German policy. Scholz might not be the most inspiring leader (I would inspire that my prime minister, Sanna Marin has a much better drive) and the way he makes decisions is sometimes both terribly old-fashioned and glacially slow, but just a year ago the idea of Germany donating Ukraine 50 Gepards, 10 PzH-2000, 6 MARS-22, IRIS-T SLM and a plethora of lighter weaponry and funding the Ukrainian acquisition of Zuzanna 2, about 100 PzH-2000 and 18 RCH-155 would have been all but laughable. (Germany actually ranks third in the value of weaponry donated to Ukraine.) Even the fact that Scholz has been visiting Bundeswehr manoeuvres several times and has had himself photographed posing with a Gepard is something unseen with German chancellors since Kohl's tenure.

We'll see what comes next, but I would not be too surprised to see a joint European project of donating Ukraine Leopard 1A5 or Leopard 2A4 where Germany also participates. Providing major components to some kind of new version of T-84M (a T-84M with Rheinmetall L/55 120 mm gun, a higher turret permitting better gun depression and a Yatagan-style autoloader with an extra ten rounds and German optics would be prefect for Ukraine) or producing Lynx or a tracked Boxer IFV for Ukraine would not be unimaginable, either. I am also quite certain that the Germans will start to seriously sort out the Bundeswehr but it will take quite some years as the mess has become massive during the last two decades. We Finns can be even more outrageously slow to start things than the Germans, but when we do get to speed, we will press on until the end, and I am quite sure that so will the Germans. They have been changing their mindset for a year now and will now have to draw plans (it is ridiculously late, but making major decissions in panic can be even worse) and start executing them.
 
Grey Havoc said:
Didn't get around to posting this earlier. From the 21st of December:
www.defensenews.com

Germany’s Puma panzer hangs in the balance after report of mass outage

Initial results of a damage investigation into problems at a recent field exercise are expected in the last week of the year.
www.defensenews.com www.defensenews.com
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It's quite telling that the SPz Puma is quite commonly called Pannenpanzer in German press and public discourse. I do wonder if there are already bets on which one of the duo Ajax and Puma will either be axed or debugged first...
 
I recall that every infantry vehicle seems to have had issues.. They seem to suffer from too many different requirements being loaded on one platform.
Watching Ukrainian soldiers riding Vietnam style on ancient Spartans I wonder if we need to find some better answers.
 
JWilly said:
Dumb artillery and heavy-mortar rounds are a waste of tonnage. Ditto towed guns. No more area fires. Everything must be shoot and scoot, most everything should be precision. Each shell is individually targeted. So, fewer guns will be needed per battery...maybe just one or two...and there will be much less tonnage of ammo movement.
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There are still times when you need mass of fire, not just precision. This generally means MLRS type volleys.

The classic example would be a BTG or MRR going from road march to attack formations.

Precision shots take out the SAM units covering that marshalling area. MLRS delivers enough antitank skeets to hit every vehicle while tac air is en route to clean up.

And based on Ukrainian consumption of 155mm shells, to the extent of burning out barrels in PzH2000s even with the UkrArmy using the PzH2ks "as designed" with a volley of 6-10 rounds before displacing, you really need to plan on a LOT MORE ammunition consumption than what's been happening, not less.


JWilly said:
No rail logistics.
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Rails are surprisingly hard to destroy long-term, barring bridges and tunnels. And bridges and tunnels are equally threatening to truck travel.

Railroad operators have all the equipment to repair or replace damaged track already. Once a conflict starts, you simply run a couple of flatcars at the head of the train to carry replacement rails and ties, and a hopper car to carry more ballast.


JWilly said:
No limitation to Grade 1 highways. All truck movement, and extensive usage of secondary and tertiary roads. Constantly changing routes. Route all trucks singly...no convoys.
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That's generally correct, but rearming more than a platoon of tanks takes more than one truck at a time. Refueling and rearming takes two separate trucks.





phantomphan said:
once upon a time, this would have given the Poles night sweats
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Now, it's the thought of being a Russian slave state that gives Poles nightmares...
 
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www.telegraph.co.uk

Watch: German navy warship plays Darth Vader theme on Thames

Spokesman insists playful choice of music has ‘no deeper message’
www.telegraph.co.uk www.telegraph.co.uk
Incidentally, spot the blooper:
The Braunschweig F260 is the lead ship of the German navy’s latest Class K130 corvette fleet. Tower Bridge opened to allow the warship through and go alongside the HMS Belfast on Friday.

The ship, which was commissioned in 2008, has since left London and was moored in Plymouth on Wednesday morning.

A spokesman for the German Embassy in London said: “The commander of the corvette FGS Braunschweig is a big Star Wars fan and an admirer of the legendary musical scores of John Williams.

“He chooses a different Williams tune whenever his ship is visiting a foreign harbour.”
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Grey Havoc said:
www.telegraph.co.uk

Watch: German navy warship plays Darth Vader theme on Thames

Spokesman insists playful choice of music has ‘no deeper message’
www.telegraph.co.uk www.telegraph.co.uk
Incidentally, spot the blooper:
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Ah yes the K130... I still believe that the 5 new ships where a mistake. Instead some Meko A200 could have been more usefull with a future chance of them replacing the F-125 too (as we probaly could have safed some money with them given that not the same problems would happen).
 
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Justo Miranda said:
One small step for a tank...:)
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Making fun of Olaf is always good sport but Gepard isn't really relevant to the titular Re-arming the Bundeswehr.

Rheinmetall has already received a €595M order for 18 x Boxer 8x8s armed with Skyranger 30. There is also mobile air defence system.

I'm not sure where the rumblings are currently at for German plans to put Skyranger 35 on surplus Leopard 1 hulls for Ukraine.
-- https://mil.in.ua/en/news/rheinmetall-eyes-leopard-1-tank-upgrade-with-skyranger-system-for-ukraine/
 
Ironically, the German government is about to bail out the Meyer Werft shipyard (the last remnant of a once vibrant shipbuilding industry in Papenburg) to the tune of at least €2.5 billion euros. You would think at a time like this that they would have insisted that the shipyard would once again start build warships and support vessels for the Deutsche Marine in return for this largesse, but no. :rolleyes:

maritime-executive.com

German Chancellor Visits Meyer Werft Signaling Support for Bailout

Financially troubled German shipyard Meyer Werft received assurances of a government-supported bailout during a town hall meeting for employees with...
maritime-executive.com maritime-executive.com
 
Grey Havoc said:
Ironically, the German government is about to bail out the Meyer Werft shipyard (the last remnant of a once vibrant shipbuilding industry in Papenburg) to the tune of at least €2.5 billion euros. You would think at a time like this that they would have insisted that the shipyard would once again start build warships and support vessels for the Deutsche Marine in return for this largesse, but no. :rolleyes:

maritime-executive.com

German Chancellor Visits Meyer Werft Signaling Support for Bailout

Financially troubled German shipyard Meyer Werft received assurances of a government-supported bailout during a town hall meeting for employees with...
maritime-executive.com maritime-executive.com
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Well there wouldn't be any real use for it given the relativ small budget they have for new ships and Meyer Werfts non existing knowledge for it. Tought one could let them start with something around USVs which are supposed to come.
 
A few years ago, I visited Meyer Werft in Papenburg. I urge anyone vaguely interested in industry to visit what amounts to a town in its own right, it is a massive shipyard that has been churning out ships for centuries now. It currently employs over 3000 workers in the shipyard itself, but the yard's subcontractors employ many more workers.

The company took a hit when covid-19 and the war in Ukraine caused unforeseen problems. As usual with banks, they will lend you an umbrella when the sun shines but demand its return when it rains - they refused loans to tide over a company that is basically sound. Meyer's €11 billion backlog stretches into 2031.

Now the German federal government steps in. If it did not, and the shipyard and its subcontractors went under now with all the workers involved, expertise accumulated over the centuries coming to nought, any German politician connected with the yard's demise would face the electorate's wrath.
 
Two issues that I can see though. One is that the numbers and timeframe is too few and too long respectively. Two is that they seem to have not yet settled on the chassis that it will be mounted on, despite Boxer and Leopard I & Leopard II fittings having being successfully tested. I could be wrong, but I suspect that the beancounters still have it in their noggins the idea of having 'floating turrets', despite that idea not having ever worked out well in practice.

EDIT: Though looking at the article again, they do say "The initial order of 19 vehicles, valued at €650 million, includes eight additional reloading vehicles, maintenance equipment, and onboard simulators for training purposes." Which does seem to suggest the Boxer variant?
 
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Grey Havoc said:
Two issues that I can see though. One is that the numbers and timeframe is too few and too long respectively. Two is that they seem to have not yet settled on the chassis that it will be mounted on, despite Boxer and Leopard I & Leopard II fittings having being successfully tested. I could be wrong, but I suspect that the beancounters still have it in their noggins the idea of having 'floating turrets', despite that idea not having ever worked out well in practice.

EDIT: Though looking at the article again, they do say "The initial order of 19 vehicles, valued at €650 million, includes eight additional reloading vehicles, maintenance equipment, and onboard simulators for training purposes." Which does seem to suggest the Boxer variant?
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No the Skyranger 30 is what will come tought only in a limited number as we also know of a C-RAM System which is on the way. But there may come another Skyranger 30 version on tracks when the budget is available.
 
kqcke for you said:
No the Skyranger 30 is what will come tought only in a limited number as we also know of a C-RAM System which is on the way. But there may come another Skyranger 30 version on tracks when the budget is available.
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1000049499.jpg
If my understanding is right we see atleast another 19 Skyranger 30 + 16 CRAM Skyranger (30). Dont know what Teilprojekt 2 does but i assume it covers something like the tracked counterpart.

Edit: remember this replaces leflasys and mantis which for example only got 12 Ozelots (the actual armed Wiesel in leflasys) and 2 NBS-C-RAM system 8-16 turrets (don't know the right amount right now).
This gets a replacement of atleast 16 CRAM Skyranger (35), 38 Skyranger 30, 6 (12) Iris-T SLM units and an unknown amount (to me) of Iris-T SLS on Boxer
 
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kqcke for you said:
Dont know what Teilprojekt 2 does but i assume it covers something like the tracked counterpart...
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No, not tracked. Teilprojekt 2 NNbSwas to be a „Lasereffektor“ for Marine shipboard short/close-in defence. This laser weapon was to be developed by Rheinmetall and MBDA which performed 100 test-shots aboard F124 Sachsen.
 

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