RAF Puma Replacement?

Well if we are going to put on our secret plan hat, i would agree with Scott, but with a twist. The MoD will  lease aircraft from Leonardo. Easier to turn off, and the aircraft are easier to dispose of after the perriod of performance. It was noted that there was much traffic at the Bell Flight chalet at Farnbourough (sp) with the coming and going of many suits during the show. Since Leonardo has factory space in UK it is not a stretch that agreements were proposed to have some of the European version of a V-280 like platform built at those facilities.

A wild guess to be sure, but stranger things have happened.
 
yasotay said:
The MoD will  lease aircraft from Leonardo.
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I would not be surprised if that is the case, the MoD already uses leased/privately-owned aircraft for training (which is a bit of a silly situation, but that's beside the point).

Perhaps Leonardo might build orders for other countries in the UK to win over the contract. Likewise, it could be an attempt to get the Italians to order the Wildcat as well, as they had previously tested one a couple of years back.

If indeed an order does not go through, perhaps it could force Leonardo UK to venture into other defence areas in addition to helicopters.
 
We should've Leased H145 (as we already leased them) until other competition I am not sure what name it will take in the 2030s (to replace Merlin) and similar NATO/EU Medium Helicopters in the 2030s too. so more number order would reduce the cost.

I think we should've done this; split V-280 Valor for Troop Carry + SAR, Cargos haul (artillery or vehicle with artillery 105mm Hawkeyes or VAMTAC Rapid Ranger etc) as the main reason, speed, and long-range will help in the Pacific Ocean area, plus Quick reaction force to support them.. it would be good for commando & Special force, Support Special force group mission.

and Modern Merlin version with better maintenance with 3D Prints and Optic Fibre, LDT Screen. for the rear Ramp reason which V-280 lacks.

T-650 for Drone operation numerous roles if Risk assets to rescue or recover injury/wound in danger for pilot go into for eyes mk.1

(also increase Protector Mk.1 for ASW + AEW Roles for Carrier ops to replace Crownest and support fleet protecting in outside of fleet radius also land ops to Support P8 + E7)
 
djpowell1984 said:
We should've Leased H145 (as we already leased them) until other competition I am not sure what name it will take in the 2030s (to replace Merlin) and similar NATO/EU Medium Helicopters in the 2030s too. so more number order would reduce the cost.
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H145 is in a different size and weight class to the Puma/AW149
 
Given one the main problems faced by the British state at the moment is the greater cost of outsourcing for worse service, I'd hope they would buy the AW149s with a significant spares package outright, and maintain them internally, lest we end up with Thames Water in helicopter form.

Britain does not need V-280s for the extra range in the Pacific, Britain will not be fighting in the Pacific, our greatest involvement in any such war will be to replace US forces in Europe to enable them to be diverted to the Pacific. Plus it's not designed or made here.
 
I thought the NMH contract was set up as a kind of lease arrangement anyway? the bidders were to be paid not for the number of helicopter fuselages but for the number of aircraft available for service when requested, a bit like Air Tanker (though they wont be doing a side hustle as commercial aircraft) or the Intercity Express Programme. The government set a minimum number of airframes required and the daily availability rate they expected and the bidders then had to decide how many fuselages they needed to build to meet that availability rate knowing that any given point some would be in routine or heavy maintenance while others might experience mechanical breakdown.
 
A Tentative Fleet Plan said:
Given one the main problems faced by the British state at the moment is the greater cost of outsourcing for worse service, I'd hope they would buy the AW149s with a significant spares package outright, and maintain them internally, lest we end up with Thames Water in helicopter form.

Britain does not need V-280s for the extra range in the Pacific, Britain will not be fighting in the Pacific, our greatest involvement in any such war will be to replace US forces in Europe to enable them to be diverted to the Pacific. Plus it's not designed or made here.
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The Puma upgrade was already pioneering before the Thames Water, spend more for less choppers...
 
A Tentative Fleet Plan said:
Given one the main problems faced by the British state at the moment is the greater cost of outsourcing for worse service, I'd hope they would buy the AW149s with a significant spares package outright, and maintain them internally, lest we end up with Thames Water in helicopter form.

Britain does not need V-280s for the extra range in the Pacific, Britain will not be fighting in the Pacific, our greatest involvement in any such war will be to replace US forces in Europe to enable them to be diverted to the Pacific. Plus it's not designed or made here.
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The NATO new model rotorcraft, or whatever the official program name is, seems to be demanding a V280 type airframe. Because it allows the FARPs and air assault staging bases to be 200nmi back from the lines instead of less than 50nmi.
 
Hood said:
Yeah but waiting for NGRC will be like waiting for NH90 - 25 years and still not sure if it works when you get it.
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Valid concern.

It's why I think it's only going to hold out till the V280 final version is flying.


Hood said:
Or the AW609, flying for 21 years and still not certified.
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I don't think that's AW's fault. FAA etc keep adding more and more requirements.
 
Wow, just days after deciding not to bid for the NMH; Airbus has done a U-turn and decided to make a tender with a new factory in Broughton to produce the H175M after all. From the sound of it they have reworked their bid to include delaying delivery of the H175M and instead providing maintenance support for the Puma fleet to remain in service for longer than planned through the NMH contract.

I suppose the Treasury bean counters indicated they were happy with slowing the rate of spend, hence improving the MoD's cash flow position.
 
H_K said:
Would be great if they could be donated to Ukraine as it seems like they still have some life in them.
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Given HM Treasury's (mis-)management of defence procurement, it is debatable whether there would be much available in the way of spare parts and the like.
 
H_K said:
1746047846492.png Would be great if they could be donated to Ukraine as it seems like they still have some life in them.We have
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We have

https://united24media.com/latest-ne...will provide,Légendaires reported on April 1.
zjz said:
View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y7xG-mQyZbE

View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=W2TJvzsfSsQ
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Apologies for my not so stellar images of the puma HC2 final fly past over Duxford Imperial War Museum, as my settings on my DSLR wwre wrong to adapt to ehat haze and could not lock on properly till they flew off!

1746047747156.png

1746047846164.png

cheers
 
Titus K said:
Soon
https://ukdefencejournal.org.uk/new-medium-helicopter-decision-imminent/
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i will believe it when i see it...

problem tis pretty much (sadly) dead in the water...I'd like nothing more than AW149 (of whuch Ive flown the NMH demonstrator) NMH to enter service and be seen in RAF colors.

BUT realistically contract for 22 a/c and support training chucked in , will it be viable financially...

Speaking to former RAF RW pilots and engineers say they are glad NMH was gone as it frees up budget and the remaining force and might as well wait for NGRC and / or Bell mV-75. The other old cynics said if today's MAA (Military Aviation Authority) rules and regs existed in the late 60s, the Puma would not seen the light of day.

But the flip side IMHO is we dont really have a real medium lift in between Wildcat and Chinook lest you count the Commando Helicopter Force Merlin HC4 but then again they be tasked for carrying Royal Marines. Bearing in mind the RAF gave up their Merlin fleet orignal HC3 to the Commando Helicopter Force while they awaited their new HC4.

Catch 22 situation or maybe the big announcement is formal closure of the NMH competition..

cheers
 
RavenOne said:
problem tis pretty much (sadly) dead in the water...I'd like nothing more than AW149 (of whuch Ive flown the NMH demonstrator) NMH to enter service and be seen in RAF colors.
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I didn't follow this saga from the start, but why wasn’t the H225M ever considered? Too big/expensive ?
 
Titus K said:
I didn't follow this saga from the start, but why wasn’t the H225M ever considered? Too big/expensive ?
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Could be due to 225s having a bad press in the UK, thanks to the EC225's propensity to shed main rotors.

Chris
 
Titus K said:
I didn't follow this saga from the start, but why wasn’t the H225M ever considered? Too big/expensive ?
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Quick recap - here were the competitors

AceHawk offered ML-70

Airbus Helicopters offering H175M

Bell offered mil version of 525 Relentless

Boeing offered MH-139 Grey Wolf

Leonardo offers AW149 NMH

Lockheed Martin - albeit owning Sikorsky offers UH-60M/S-70i

nailed it down to Airbus, Leonardo and Lockheed Martin with Airbus and Lockheed Martin withdrawing, leaving Leonardo only.

as @CJGibson mentions H225M never considered in the mix parially due with the fatal Norwegian Ec225 crash in 2016...and prob politics.

But if you go back 4 decades in early 80s, then Aerospatiale offered the then AS332L Super Puma as Air Staff Target 104 replacement of the Puma anyhow ...

cheers
 
Fluff said:
Norway reporting it will be AW149 for British 'Army'.....
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??? Who's "Norway"? And what would they know about the UK MoD's procurement plans?

Link to source would be appreciated.
 
Probability Norway will opt into Merlin for ASW.

This UK-Norway business is deeply strategic and increasingly looking profound.
 
Decision for NMh or whatever is left of it meant to be today

As of lunchtime have not seen anything

So still waiting

Cheers
 
I hadn’t realized how dire the situation of the British helicopter industry had become... I even thought the 50 new apaches were still UK assembled.
After reading a couple of articles, I’m honestly baffled that the UKgov let the AW merger turn it into what’s basically an Italian firm now (though I do not blame the Italian side)
 
https://www.helihub.com/2026/01/14/uk-to-order-black-hawks-instead-of-aw149s/
Yesterday, another party threw a grenade into the mix by claiming that the UK Government really wants to order Black Hawks from Sikorsky, a division of Lockheed Martin.
Reform UK Deputy leader Richard Tice asked: “Can the Minister confirm whether the rumours are true that one reason for the delay in the medium-lift helicopter is that there has been a rearguard action in the Army to buy US Black Hawks instead?”. He added: “If he will not give a timeline for the Defence Investment Plan, will he at least confirm that it will include a medium-lift helicopter—yes or no?”
The question followed reports that Prime Minister Sir Keir Starmer ordered a delay to the upcoming Defence Investment Plan (DIP), a detailed framework setting out UK defence spending on infrastructure and equipment. It had been set for December 2025 release, but is now not expected until March 2026 at the earliest.
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