Dassault Falcon 900LX to replace RAF BAE 146

RavenOne

RavenOne

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The RAF are getting pair of Dassault Falcon 900LX to replace the BAE 146 (slowly retired one has gone into our local Imperial War Museum Duxford last week) at 32 (Royal) Squadron.

www.raf.mod.uk

New jets to enhance UK's international presence | Royal Air Force

Under a new £80 million contract with Bristol-based Centreline, four BAe146 aircraft, will be replaced by two more sustainable aircraft to continue the UK’s global engagement. The new planes will be m
www.raf.mod.uk www.raf.mod.uk
 

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£80 million for 2 (possibly 5) years? Well I guess that is 40 trips to Oz and back....

There seems to be a real Union Jack obsession with the MoD these days...

EDIT: additional thought - why were no Tucanos seemingly preserved but both 146s get museum homes? I have nothing against preserving the best airliner the UK ever built but you have to wonder who at the MoD makes these decisions?
 
My understanding is that more than one had bad experience with the Tuc. Maybe there is something to read under the lines...
 
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2cobras said:
But theyre (whisper it softly) - FRENCH!!

"Innovatively and at pace" or "got some quotes and accepted the cheapest in the same decade."
Click to expand...

I know 2cobras, it is weird that the RAF have gone down the road of buying French for their VIP requirement, I thought that they could have at least looked at the Embraer Phenom 360 for an alternative.
 
FighterJock said:
2cobras said:
But theyre (whisper it softly) - FRENCH!!

"Innovatively and at pace" or "got some quotes and accepted the cheapest in the same decade."
Click to expand...

I know 2cobras, it is weird that the RAF have gone down the road of buying French for their VIP requirement, I thought that they could have at least looked at the Embraer Phenom 360 for an alternative.
Click to expand...

Phenom 300? Much too small compared to the Falcon 900. Have to be one of the Legacy or Praetor models to be comparable.
 
TomS said:
FighterJock said:
2cobras said:
But theyre (whisper it softly) - FRENCH!!

"Innovatively and at pace" or "got some quotes and accepted the cheapest in the same decade."
Click to expand...

I know 2cobras, it is weird that the RAF have gone down the road of buying French for their VIP requirement, I thought that they could have at least looked at the Embraer Phenom 360 for an alternative.
Click to expand...

Phenom 300? Much too small compared to the Falcon 900. Have to be one of the Legacy or Praetor models to be comparable.
Click to expand...

Thanks TomS, I had forgotten about the Embraer Legacy and Praetor.:oops:
 

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2cobras said:
But theyre (whisper it softly) - FRENCH!!

"Innovatively and at pace" or "got some quotes and accepted the cheapest in the same decade."
Click to expand...

Didn't great Britain once had a bizjet called Bae-800 ? WTH happened to it ?

It is either a) you massively invest public & private money into your aerospace industry or b) it dies a painful agony, and you have to buy foreign at some point...
 
Archibald said:
2cobras said:
But theyre (whisper it softly) - FRENCH!!

"Innovatively and at pace" or "got some quotes and accepted the cheapest in the same decade."
Click to expand...

Didn't great Britain once had a bizjet called Bae-800 ? WTH happened to it ?

It is either a) you massively invest public & private money into your aerospace industry or b) it dies a painful agony, and you have to buy foreign at some point...
Click to expand...

I graduated across the road from the former BAe plant at Hatfield....when i started, all but one tiny office was left,.as the 125 - 800 went to Wichita as Raytheon - Hawker took it from BAE. Couple of my aero lecturers used to rotate between working in the design, aerodynamics / propulsion etc departments and giving lectures here at uni.

3 decades ago 146 production went up north, and 125 snapped up by Hawker....some were offered incentives to move to Wichita, some did not and came back across to teach us under and postgrads.

Though one very famous Marine corps SeaCobra and subsequent McDonnell Douglas Apache company test pilot Cap Parlier (who brought over then Chernobyl surviving Mil Helicopters Bureau MI26 test pilot to USA for chemo) ended up at BAe Hatfield around the time the move as a Raytheon HAwker executive. He probably was part of the move from HAtfield to Wichita.

cheers
 
I still find it odd though that the MoD/RAF have named it Envoy IV to perpetuate the lineage of the Airspeed Envoy III that the Prince of Wales (future Edward VIII) flew in 1937. Talk about tenuous links...
 
Perhaps, like Edward VIII, they are only temporary. Not been painted up in Hair Farce One colours yet.

Chris
 
For purposes of my next book, does anyone know a) are these Envoy IV to be given RAF serials and b) what might they be?

Given the RAF's recent playing fast and loose with names and serials, will they be as bonkers as the name?

Chris
 
CJGibson said:
For purposes of my next book, does anyone know a) are these Envoy IV to be given RAF serials and b) what might they be?

Given the RAF's recent playing fast and loose with names and serials, will they be as bonkers as the name?

Chris
Click to expand...
Have you seen the MoD page for the type? No serials visible just the civvy reg. And they will be flown by both RAF and civilian crew.

The U.K. Serials site has nothing higher than ZZ666 for the RC135W. I would have expected any new serial for the Envoys to be higher than that given the timing of procurement.
 
Grey Havoc said:
www.telegraph.co.uk

Grant Shapps’s jet left ‘defenceless’ after ministers baulked at cost of protective systems

RAF plane, targeted by Russia as Defence Secretary returned from Poland, was missing £150m worth of kit after MoD prioritised other spending
www.telegraph.co.uk www.telegraph.co.uk
Click to expand...

The answer was always a purchase of 2 x Global Express alongside the Sentinel purchase. RAF went to the expense of integrating and qualifying all the comms and self protection fits a VIP jet would ever need.

But its always about 'optics' with the press, who would haul any politician over the coals who purchased a dedicated, properly equipped VIP jet for the government....but then gleefully write stories a few years later about how the leased, rather basic, VIP jets aren't fit for purpose...
 
ukdefencejournal.org.uk

RAF to spend £135m to upgrade Envoy VIP transport jets

The Ministry of Defence replaced its fleet of BAe146 aircraft with two new Dassault Falcon 900LX jets; it's now looking to include a number of military modifications to the aircraft.
ukdefencejournal.org.uk ukdefencejournal.org.uk

From this it looks like the intention is to transfer the aircraft onto the military aircraft register on 1 October 2026 and operate on civil markings until that time.
 
Hood said:
ukdefencejournal.org.uk

RAF to spend £135m to upgrade Envoy VIP transport jets

The Ministry of Defence replaced its fleet of BAe146 aircraft with two new Dassault Falcon 900LX jets; it's now looking to include a number of military modifications to the aircraft.
ukdefencejournal.org.uk ukdefencejournal.org.uk

From this it looks like the intention is to transfer the aircraft onto the military aircraft register on 1 October 2026 and operate on civil markings until that time.
Click to expand...
Lovely, just what I need. Thanks

Chris

And thanks to UKDJ Dod.
 

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