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Payen designations

Maveric

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you come late, but not to late :D

Thanks Deltafan
 

Stargazer2006

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Here is an updated list of Payen's designs. I compiled it using mostly this thread and the great Payen page at AviationsMilitaires.net and found it pretty impressive that Payen did so many designs over his long life yet produced so few actual aircraft.


Early collaborations and non-standard designations

[blue]YA 11[/blue] AIRËAU rocket engine imagined using a Beaucarnot seaplane as a basis (1929, not built)
[blue]Br.220[/blue] Bratu three-engined monoplane (Payen worked as an engineer) (1930, not built)
[blue]Br.250[/blue] Bratu four-engined twin-fuselage transport (Payen worked as an engineer) (1930, not built)
[blue]RAP.10[/blue] Chaise single-engined aircraft (1928, not built)
[blue]RAP.40[/blue] single-engine touring aircraft with tandem wings and one 30 hp Anzani engine (1931, not built)
[blue]RAP.60[/blue] training glider (1931, not built)
[blue]JM.10[/blue] three-/four-seat private aircraft (Payen worked as an engineer) (1932, not built)

[blue]SP.18[/blue] light monoplane project (1931, not built)
[blue]SP.190[/blue] single-engined delta-canard light transport/medevac aircraft for 2 crew and 6 stretchers, with 400 hp engine (1932, not built)
[blue]SP.220[/blue] light single-seat fighter design (1932, not built)
[blue]SP.221[/blue] light single-seat fighter design (1932, not built)
[blue]SP.230[/blue] AUTOPLAN delta-canard racer aircraft, wind tunnel model only (also found as SP.23 O) (1931, not built)
[blue]SP.23[/blue] HÉLIO-FLÈCHE derived from SP.18 (1932, not built)
[blue]SP.240[/blue] single-engined delta-canard light transport/medevac aircraft for one crew and one stretcher (1931, not built)
[blue]SP.250 (SP.25)[/blue] delta-canard racing design for the Coupe Deutsch 1933 with two engines combined and contra-rotating pusher propellers (1933, wind tunnel model only)
[blue]SP.260 (SP.26) (K 16)[/blue] single-engine design derivative of the SP-25 with retractable landing gear; first designation the retractable-gear Pa.100 (1933, not built)
[blue]NRP.260[/blue] version of the SP.260 with two Melot ram jet engines; first designation of the Pa-100R ("NRP" for Nicolas Roland Payen) (1935, not built)
[blue]RP.261 (K 16B)[/blue] derived from the SP.260 with fixed gear; first designation of the fixed-gear Pa.100 (1933, not built)
[blue]Pa.268[/blue] first study of the later Pa-22 (or 1935?) (1933, not built)
[blue]PM.30A[/blue] planned version of Pa.22/1R with cockpit moved forward (not built)

[blue]BP.1[/blue] single-engine two-seat flying wing with one 40 hp pusher engine (alternate designation for BP-10T?) (1932, not built)
[blue]B.1[/blue] racing seaplane project with rocket engine (1933, not built)
[blue]P.2[/blue] one seat all-wood light flying wing with high trapezoid wing and single 20 hp engine (1933, not built)
[blue]BP.10T[/blue] single-engine two-seat flying wing with one 75 hp pusher engine (1933, not built)

[blue]AP.10[/blue] UNIPLAN small single-engine private flying wing with a 25/27 hp engine (1935)
[blue]AP.10 V2[/blue] UNIPLAN re-engined with 40 hp engine (1936)
[blue]AP.10 V3[/blue] UNIPLAN re-engined with 90 hp engine; never flew (1939, not built)
[blue]AP.11[/blue] enlarged AP-10 derivative project with 60 hp engine (1939, not built)
[blue]AP.12[/blue] larger single-engined two-seat flying-wing private aircraft with enclosed cockpit, side-by-side seats and one 40/50 hp engine (1940, not built)


Pa designations

[blue]Pa.100 (K 16C)[/blue] FLÈCHE VOLANTE delta-canard aircraft with retractable single wheel and Régnier engine (completed as the Pa.101) (1933, not completed)
[blue]Pa.100R[/blue] version of the SP.260 with two Melot ram jet engines (1935, not built)
[blue]Pa.101 (K 17)[/blue] single-engine single-seat modification of Pa.100 as record aircraft with 380 hp Gnôme & Rhône 7KD Titan Major radial engine (1935)
[blue]Pa.110 CD[/blue] single-seat delta-canard racing aircraft for Coupe Deutsch with 200 to 400 hp engine, derived from Pa.100; project completed as the Pa.110 C1 (1936(not built)
[blue]Pa.110 C1[/blue] single-seat delta-canard fighter aircraft with counter-rotating propellers and 200 hp engine; also proposed to Spanish Republicans (1937?, mock-up built)
[blue]Pa.112 C1[/blue] twin-engined fighter derived from Pa.110 C1 with 200 hp engines and contra-rotating propellers (1938, not completed)
[blue]Pa.120[/blue] other designation for the AP-12 flying wing design (1940, not built)
[blue]Pa.130[/blue] twin-engined postal aircraft design of similar design to the AP-10 (1941, not built)
[blue]Pa.140 (K 60)[/blue] twin-boom two-seat private aircraft project with pusher engine (1943, not built)
[blue]Pa.141[/blue] twin-boom two-seat mid-wing aircraft project with pusher engine derived from Pa.140 (1943, not built)
[blue]Pa.150[/blue] OTARIE single-engined twin-boom pusher high wing private amphibian project (1943, not built)
[blue]Pa.160[/blue] single-engined twin-fin low-wing private aircraft project (1943, not built)
[blue]Pa.161[/blue] delta wing canard design, probably derived from Pa.160 (1943, not built)
[blue]Pa.170[/blue] single-engined twin-fin high-wing private aircraft project (1943, not built)
[blue]Pa.180[/blue] single-engined open cockpit private aircraft project (1943, not built)
[blue]Pa.190[/blue] twin-engined design probably derived from the Pa.150 (not built)
[blue]P.200[/blue] twin-engined tandem two-seat private aircraft project with contra-rotating propellers (1938, not built)

[blue]Pa.221 (Pa 22/2)[/blue] single-engine two-seat delta-canard private aircraft; Pa.22/R1 redesigned and built with 70 hp Régnier 6B-01 engine (also known as Pa.220-T2) (1935
[blue]Pa.22/1R[/blue] FLÉCHAIR, a planned Pa.22 version with a Melot ram jet engine (1935, not built)
[blue]Pa 220 (Pa.22/2)[/blue] single-seat delta-canard aircraft with 180 hp engine; modified as the Pa.22/5 (1939, not built)
[blue]Pa.22/3[/blue] tandem two-/three-seater private aircraft project derived from the Pa-22 (1938, not built)
[blue]Pa.22/4[/blue] two-seat private aircraft project derived from the Pa.22 with two wingtip fins and one 220 hp engine (1941, not built)
[blue]Pa.225 (1)[/blue] single-seat delta-canard racer derivative of the Pa-22 for the Coupe Deutsch 1939 with 80/400 hp engine; completed as the second type Pa.22/2 (1939, not built)
[blue]Pa.22/5[/blue] designation of the second type Pa.22/2 with separate cockpit and modified fin, first flown on October 18, 1941 (also found as Pa.22 V5) (1941
[blue]Pa.22/6[/blue] projected enlarged derivative ot the second type Pa.22/2 with larger canards (1942, not built)
[blue]Pa.22/7 (Pa.22S)[/blue] design derivative of the Pa.22 with folding canards (model built for French movie Retour de flamme in 1942) (1942, model built)
[blue]Pa.222[/blue] three-seat derivative of the Pa-22 (1943, not built)
[blue]Pa.225 (2)[/blue] postal derivative of second type Pa.22/2 (1943, not built)
[blue]Pa.22 D[/blue] derivative of second type Pa.22/2 with forward-swept canards (1948, not built)

[blue]Pa.240 GR[/blue] single-engine single-seat "grand raid" delta-canard design derivative of the Pa-22, 315 hp engine (1937, not built)
[blue]Pa.240 H[/blue] twin-engine private plane design probably similar to the Pa.150 (not built)
[blue]Pa.25[/blue] racer planned for the Coupe Deutsch 1939 (1939, not built)
[blue]Pa.26[/blue] flyable car/roadable aircraft project (1946, not built)
[blue]Pa.26 G[/blue] single-engined single-seater with circular wing and 80 hp engine developed with Gayral (or 1944-45?) (1946, 80% complete)
[blue]Pa.26/2[/blue] projected variant of Pa.26G (not built)
[blue]Pa.26/3[/blue] projected variant of Pa.26G (not built)
[blue]Pa.26/4[/blue] projected variant of Pa.26G (not built)
[blue]Pa.27[/blue] no details (found in experimental register as F-WFKY, a registration also used by SNCASO's Triton n°03)
? trans-Atlantic delta-wing flying boat transport project with 2000 hp total engine power (1936, not built)
[blue]Pa.290[/blue] single-/two-seat delta-canard private aircraft project (1938, not built)
[blue]Pa.300 C1[/blue] single-seat fighter project with 1000 hp Hispano-Suiza engine (1937, not built)
[blue]P.310 CB[/blue] twin-engined delta-canard fighter-bomber project with contra-rotating propellers (same as Pa 310?) (1937, not built)
[blue]Pa.320 P[/blue] postal aircraft design with four coupled engines and contra-rotating propellers (1936, not built)
[blue]P.321 AC[/blue] four-engine multiplace heavy fighter/light bomber with 4 coupled engines (two nacelles with contra props), 10 machine guns and 12 light bombs (1935, not built)
[blue]Pa 321[/blue] twin-engined three-seat fighter submitted to 1934C3 program (not built)
[blue]P.323 AC3[/blue] design developed from Pa.321 for 1937C3 program, probably similar to P.321AC; led to the P.310CB (also found as Pa 323) (1937, not built)
[blue]P.330 H[/blue] amphibian aircraft project (1938, not built)
[blue]Pa.330[/blue] delta-canard aircraft project (not built)
[blue]P.340 TP[/blue] twin-engined delta-canard transport project with contra-rotating propellers (1937, not built)
[blue]P.350 CD[/blue] single-engined single-seat twin-fin delta-canard racing aircraft with contra-rotating propellers and 150 hp (or 220 hp) engine (also found as Pa.350) (1934, not built)
[blue]P.360 TP[/blue] twin-engined twin-fuselage delta-canard transport project (1941, not built)
[blue]Pa.361[/blue] twin-engined delta-canard long-range trans-Atlantic aircraft project (1937, not built)
[blue]Pa.370[/blue] design probably similar to the P.360 TP (not built)


[blue]Pa.400[/blue] carrier-borne twin-fin torpedo aircraft with tricycle gear and contra-rotating propellers developed for Mitsubishi for Imperial Japanese Navy (1938, not built)

[blue]Pa.42/1[/blue] twin-engined twin-boom transport project with two 300 hp engines (not built)
[blue]Pa.42/5[/blue] three-engined twin-boom transport project with detachable cargo hold, one engine driving the wheels for ground handling (1942(not built)
[blue]Pa.430 CV[/blue] twin-engined single-seat racing aircraft with two 650 hp 14 M engines and contra-rotating propellers (also found as Pa.430 HV) (1938, not built)
[blue]Pa.445[/blue] design probably similar to the P.360 TP (not built)

[blue]Pa.46[/blue] twin-engined delta-canard racing floatplane project (not built)
[blue]Pa.47/1 (Pa.470)[/blue] PLEIN AIR / WEEK-END / AERIA single engined high-wing sports aircraft with 65 hp engine (1949)
[blue]Pa.47/2 (Pa.472)[/blue] former Pa.47/1 with modified wing (1957, not built)
[blue]Pa.47/3 (Pa.473)[/blue] derivative of Pa-47 with tricycle landing gear (1950, not built)
[blue]Pa.48[/blue] became the Pa.499 (1945, not built)
[blue]Pa.48/3[/blue] MARS delta-wing jet interceptor project with one 2,270 kgp Nene jet engine (1947, full-scale mockup only)
[blue]Pa.48/5 (K 50/77)[/blue] projected two-seat derivative of the Pa-48/3 one piston engine and pusher prop , not built)
[blue]Pa.48/6 (K 50/78)[/blue] projected single-seat derivative of the Pa-48/5 (not built)
[blue]Pa.499[/blue] two-seat delta-wing private aircraft project with 100 hp engine (developed from the Pa.48) (1951, not built)
[blue]Pa.49A (K 79)[/blue] KATY small experimental single-turbojet-powered delta-wing aircraft with 150 kgp engine (first flight on January 22, 1954) (1954, 1 built)
[blue]Pa.49B (K 82)[/blue] KATY modified with undercarriage legs were faired and main wheels enclosed in spats (1957, 1 converted)
[blue]Pa.49/2 (Pa.492)[/blue] single-seat derivative of Pa.49 (not built)
[blue]Pa.49/5 (Pa.495)[/blue] twin-seat derivative of Pa.49 (not built)
[blue]Pa.500[/blue] pure delta wing design with pusher engine (1939, not built)
[blue]Pa.50B[/blue] glider project with four SNECMA pulsejet engines (not built)
[blue]Pa.51 (Pa.510)[/blue] AGRICAVIA single-engined high-wing tricycle agricultural aircraft project (1952, not built)
[blue]Pa.52[/blue] single-seat project (1952, not built)
[blue]Pa.53[/blue] fighter project (1953, not built)


[blue]Pa.56[/blue] single-jet delta-wing tandem two-seat trainer project (1954, not built)
[blue]Pa.562[/blue] delta-wing trainer project developed from Pa-56 and using 70% of the parts of a Fouga Magister (1955, not built)
[blue]Pa.57[/blue] ATON twin-jet twin-fin two-seat flying wing project with 750 kgp engine (1955, not built)

[blue]Pa.59[/blue] ALDÉBARAN delta-wing tailsitter VTOL interceptor project (1955, not built)
[blue]Pa.600[/blue] twin-engined twin-boom high-wing transport aircraft project (1944, not built)
[blue]Pa.60[/blue] ARBALÈTE single-engine delta-wing touring aircraft project with side-by-side seating, fixed landing gear and a 105 hp Hirth engine; became Pa.61 (1963)
[blue]Pa.61 B[/blue] ARBALÈTE I, a modified Pa.60 with 105 hp engine; first flown in May 1965 (1965
[blue]Pa.61 F[/blue] ARBALÈTE II delta wing three-seat touring aircraft evolved from Pa.61B with fixed landing gear and a 180 hp engine (1970
[blue]Pa.61 G[/blue] planned design derivative of the Pa.61 F with retractable canards (1972, not built)
[blue]Pa.61 H[/blue] design derivative of the Pa.61 F and G with two side-by-side 160 kgp jet engines (1972, not built)
[blue]Pa.61 O[/blue] projected single-engined 4-seat derivative of the Pa.61 with a 200 hp engine (also found as Pa.610) (not built)
[blue]Pa.62 V1[/blue] four-seat delta-wing private aircraft project with 200 hp engine, probably similar to a Pa.61 with ducted propeller (1958, not built)
[blue]Pa.62 V2[/blue] four-seat delta-wing private aircraft project with 400 hp pusher engine and ducted propeller (1965, not built)
[blue]Pa.62 V3[/blue] planned jet-powered variant of Pa.62 V2 (1965, not built)
[blue]Pa.63[/blue] twin-engine (twin-jet?) four-set delta-wing aircraft project with 300 kgp engine (1958, not built)
[blue]Pa.64 (1)[/blue] NOVAE flying saucer powered by one 350 kgp Marboré engine (1955, not built)
[blue]Pa.64 (2)[/blue] single-jet VTOL aircraft with saucer-shaped wing and a 500 kgp engine (sometimes found as another Pa.61) (1958, not built)
[blue]Pa.65[/blue] OTARIE II hydroplane project (1959, not built)
[blue]Pa.66[/blue] AERAPLANE single-engined experimental air cushion vehicle project with 80 hp engine (1960, not built)
[blue]Pa.67[/blue] MÉNESTREL single-engined ultra-light aircraft project with tandem wings and pusher engine (1962(not built)
[blue]Pa.68[/blue] AÉROCYCLE compound private autogyro with 90 hp engine (1958, not built)

[blue]Pa.70[/blue] single-engined private aircraft project with limp delta wing and 90 hp engine (1961, not built)
[blue]Pa.71[/blue] MIDGET delta wing racing aircraft project with 100 hp Continental engine (1964, not built)

[blue]Pa.73[/blue] AEROBREAK twin-turboprop monoplane transport project with fixed landing gear (1965, not built)
[blue]Pa.74[/blue] AEROBREAK twin-turboprop push-pull monoplane transport project with fixed landing gear (1967, not built)
[blue]Pa.75[/blue] MINICOPTAIR experimental autogyro with 80 hp engine (1968, not completed)
[blue]Pa.76 (K 121)[/blue] Nieuport replica, no details (1970)


Other non-sequential/non-standard designations

[blue]Pa.25 B1 (K 132)[/blue] BÂTARD DE NEYAP Nieuport replica, no details (1977)
[blue]Pa.81[/blue] version of Pa.61 with Lycoming engine offered to Germany (1961, not built)
[blue]Pa.149[/blue] twin-jet tandem-seat trainer derivative of the Pa.49 with 2 x 300 kgp thrust; also single-jet variant with two Palas jet engines of 350-400 kgp thrust (1971, not built)
[blue]Pa 152 C[/blue] VISAIR 1 ultralight plane with one 50 hp Citroën engine (1984)
[blue]Pa.161[/blue] projected tandem two-seat derivative of Pa.61 with canards and 75+ hp engine (1984, not built)
[blue]Pa.171[/blue] projected design derivative of Pa.71 with Pa.49 wing and "Rotax" engine (1992, not built)
[blue]Pa.249[/blue] projected retractable-gear version of Pa.49 made of composite materials (not built)
[blue]Pa.349[/blue] remotely piloted aircraft for forest surveillance purposes, derived from Pa.49; took off from a vehicle and landed with a parachute (not built)

[blue]Pa.G5[/blue] AERACAR straight-wing twin-boom flyable car/roadable aircraft ('G' for Guérin) (1958, 60% complete)

[blue]Pa.M10 (Pa.Z10)[/blue] GUÉPARD twin-engine three-fin tandem-wing flying wing with canards (1959, started and not completed?)

[blue]Pa.P1[/blue] cruise missile project with piston engine (1938, not built)


NOTES:
- The French "avion de tourisme" has been translated here as "private aircraft" for lack of a better term.
- The "K **" numbers were sequential inhouse designations for all of Payen's projects which do NOT match the "Pa" numbers.
- All "Pa" numbers from 10 (Pa.100) to 76 (Pa.76) are now documented except for 21, 23, 28, 38, 39, 41, 45, 54, 55, 58, 69 and 72.
- There remains some confusion (for now) over the Pa.220, Pa.221, Pa 22/2, Pa.22/R1 and Pa.22/1R designations.
 

Retrofit

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Other details on Payen designation list:
SP stands for Sauvage-Payen
AP stands for Aubrun-Payen
Payen AP 10.V2 corresponds to K36/31
Pa 610 or Pa 61 O, Arbalette III
Pa 249, version of the Pa 49 with retractable landing gear, composite material.
Pa 349 Radio-controled aircraft
Pa 50 Glider with a prone pilot.
Pa 22S Delta racing aircraft project with retractable canards (drawing from above mentioned AE issue)

Drawing (by Payen) of a transport twin-engine flying wing project.
 

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boxkite

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I want to add a little bit more of confusion ;D with the help of the three-part article Monsieur Payen's Flying Follies, written by Ferdinand Käsmann in Fast Facts - The Speed Record Club Quarterly Magazine.

Here are his candidates, noticed during a visit in Monsieur Payen's "Concorde/Musée Delta" on 8 June 1993 (just the "new" ones for the list):

Pa.225 CD - abbreviation CD (= Coupe Deutsch) is used as a part of the type designation (Fast Facts # 66, page 22)

P.310 CB2 digit 2 is used as a part of the type designation (Fast Facts # 66, page 23)

P.321AC3 “Air Cruiser” (Fast Facts # 66, page 23)

P.361TP (Fast Facts # 66, page 23)

P.430 HV "Éclair" (HV = Haute Vitesse) (Fast Facts # 66, page 25)

Pa.471 "Week End" (Fast Facts # 67, page 19)

Pa.472 “Aéria” (Fast Facts # 67, page 19)

Pa.473 “Week End” (Fast Facts # 67, page 19)

Pa.483 (alias for Pa.48/3) (Fast Facts # 67, page 19)

Pa.482 (alias for Pa.48/2) (Fast Facts # 67, page 19)

Pa.49 was originally known as “Delta Jet”, before being named after Payen’s daughter “Katy” (Fast Facts # 67, page 20)

Pa.26 “Miniè” (alias for Pa.61 "Novae" resp. Pa.64 "Novae") (Fast Facts # 67, page 21)

Pa.61A – the first specimen of Pa.61 becoming the Pa.61A (Fast Facts # 67, page 22)

Fléchair Héli-Plateforme HP22 – exhibited in 1972 (Fast Facts # 67, page 22)

(no type number) « Anaconda » - mail carrier (simple artist’s impression in Fast Facts # 66, page 24)

(no type number) « Paloma » - passenger plane (simple artist’s impression in Fast Facts # 66, page 24)
 

Deltafan

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Ahem... For the administrators : i cannot write more than 21 lines on the same post ???


The Anaconda is the Pa.380 from 1939
The Paloma is the Pa.46/17 from 1946

If i remember good, there are drawings of the Paloma and the Anaconda (one each) in the Concorde 02 of the Musee delta. Maybe Kässmann got them there.


Retrofit, thanks for the drawing of the transport twin-engine flying wing project, it's new for me :)
 

boxkite

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Deltafan said:
The Anaconda is the Pa.380 from 1939
The Paloma is the Pa.46/17 from 1946
@Deltafan,

Thank you for giving the correct type designations to the names :) . I wonder how could be there just a name although Payen loved to give type numbers.
 

Jemiba

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Tophe said:
.... It seems fictional though.
I think, it is, as the list from the Trait d'Union issue describes the Pa.46/6 as a single-jetengined
delta. Monsieur Payen didn't make it easy for us, as the Pa.46-series seems to cover several
completely different designs, not just a basic design with its derivatives.
BTW, thanks for this reminder, as I noticed, that in our list it actually still was a "twin-engined floatplane" ... :-\
 

Stargazer2006

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Deltafan

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Stargazer2006

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Allow me to say this again: the Pa.46 Bourrasque is entirely FICTITIOUS!! The PA-100R however was a real project.
 

Tophe

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Deltafan said:
Sorry, I had forgotten, 5 years later. When the search tool of Secret projects does not find something, it is not easy to check. I think that, in every post we write, we should imagine how this will help to be found again someday (or by external visitors with Google). I will try to improve, sorry :mad: :)
 

Deltafan

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Stargazer2006 said:
Allow me to say this again: the Pa.46 Bourrasque is entirely FICTITIOUS!! The PA-100R however was a real project.
Yes, it's known since the 27/03/2007, at least. It's why i wrote project between " " :)

Tophe said:
Deltafan said:
Sorry, I had forgotten, 5 years later. When the search tool of Secret projects does not find something, it is not easy to check. I think that, in every post we write, we should imagine how this will help to be found again someday (or by external visitors with Google). I will try to improve, sorry :mad: :)
No problem, we all can make the same. For exemple, sometimes, when i am too busy at work, i forget things from the same day ;D ;)
 

Stargazer2006

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Having finally been able to explore the Trait d'Union list long and hard, I've been able, not only to produce a much more complete Excel file than the one I'd done previously (over 275 entries now!) but also to try and make sense of the various numbering systems and their inherent (lack of) logic.

Roland Payen himself commented that one should not try and find any logical sequence in the numbering of his aircraft types as there simply was none... Still, a few patterns emerge and show that in fact there were various attempts at various points in his design history to create numbering systems but these ended up overlapping and repeated the same designations to the point that it just wasn't clear probably even to him!


Prefixes

Most of Payen's designs used the prefix Pa. (as in Pa.350 for instance). But it wasn't always the case. His earliest designs used the prefixes RAP. or RP. (the latter standing for Roland Payen obviously, although the middle "A" in the former is still mysterious). The famous Pa.100 even started life as the NRP.260, the only known use of the NRP. prefix (for Nicolas Roland Payen, his complete name).

When Payen associated with another engineer, their initials combined to create a different prefix. Aircraft designed with his friend Robert Sauvage resulted in the SP. prefix for Sauvage-Payen. There was also BP. for Bétemps-Payen, PM. for Payen-Mélot (in this case the name of the company that produced the ramjet engine), and AP. for Aubrun-Payen.

Right after the war, Payen foresaw the start of several separate families of aircraft and granted them distinct prefixes (possibly with the hope of starting separate companies too): Aé. for Aéraplane (a family of general aviation projects), Ro. for Rolandair (a standalone private aircraft project) and UP. for Uniplan (a series of designs derived from the Aubrun-Payen AP. series). However all these new designations were stillborn and soon the Pa. prefix became the only one to be used by Payen, even when the contractor had a different name (such as the Fléchair Pa.49B).

With the Pa. system now firmly established, Payen sometimes saw the need to add an extra letter to indicate collaborative projects. This resulted in Pa.C (for Carmier, but not only), Pa.D (for Druine), Pa.G (for Guérin) and even the weird Pa.Z (sometimes found as Pa.M) which I can't explain for now...

Finally, the numeral prefixes 1/2/3/4 in some designations such as the Pa.149/Pa.249/Pa.349/Pa.449 series simply indicate subvariants or derivatives from the original Pa.49 and are therefore out of sequence.


Suffixes

There are several types of suffixes in Payen designations:
  • Some of them serve to indicate the subvariants of a main type and are most often letters (Pa.61/B, Pa.61/D, Pa.61E, etc.) which may or may not be separated from the designation by a slash. Often, Payen didn't use the letter "A" and started directly at "B"...
  • Sometimes, the subvariants are indicated by numeral suffixes such as Pa.22 V3 to V5 (also known as Pa.22/3 etc.) or Pa.47/01 to Pa.47/04.
  • Often, the suffixes (especially in prewar years) indicated the mission of the design: Pa.320P vs. Pa.320R (Prop/Ramjet versions), Pa.100CD (for Coupe Deutsch), Pa.330H (for Hydravion = seaplane), Pa.430HV (for Haute Vitesse = high speed).
  • Sometimes the numeral suffix after a slash indicates a subvariant (as in Pa.49/2 and Pa.49/5) but in other cases it doesn't! The Pa.46 series, for instance, contains quite a few derivatives of the « Fléchair » design but also completely different types! That is because Payen used "Pa.46" for all his 1946 designs, with the suffix indicating the project number for that year (Pa.46/1 to 8, Pa.46/12, Pa.46/13, Pa.46/16, Pa.46/17). But even that logic was blown when he designated the Pa.46/252, Pa.46/400 and /410 that same year, because he obviously did NOT draft over 400 projects that year!
  • In one instance, the suffix letter indicates the co-designer of the project: Pa.26G (for Gayral).
  • In one instance, the suffix indicates the year of the subversion: Pa.61/91, a derivative of the Arbalète designed in 1991.
  • The suffix /P (with or without the slash) was used by Payen for many of his replica and rebuild projects done for J.-B. Salis: RAK.1P (Opel RAK.1 replica), Fok.D1P (Fokker triplane replica), 2A2/P (Salmson 2A2 replicas), etc.
The above is certainly not exhaustive nor does it explain everything, but it identifies several patterns that are repeated and help to better understand Payen's complicated numbering systems!
 

Stargazer2006

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The K list

The "K" system used to number Payen's projects was kind of an afterthought... As Jemiba aptly puts it, it was kind of an attempt to produce a catalogue raisonné of his works, in other words, to put some logic in the mess of his hundreds of designs... Sort of like Mozart's own "K" or Bach's "BWV" catalogs of works !

However, it was NOT the work of an overzealous and misguided historian, but was introduced by Payen HIMSELF. The "K" prefix was the initial letter of Katy, one of his daughters who also inspired the name of the Pa.49B prototype... Originally Payen himself kept the list up to date, but in later years Katy herself made additions and updates to it.

The "K" list is strictly chronological, starting at K1 (Payen's very first design when he was 14) and going up to K168 and beyond — one can assume he added a few more to the list between 1992 (when the list was published) and 2004 (when he passed).

A sign that it must have been a hard task even for Payen to trace every old project and draft is the fact that suffix letters had to be introduced when forgotten projects were discovered, starting at "B" (as in K9, K9B, K9C, K9D). In some cases however, the "A" letter can be found and may have been necessary to add one more design to the chronology that had been missed out. It could also be the result of Katy's own way of archiving as opposed to her dad's (Payen usually skipped the letter "A" and started at "B").

The "K" list deals with all Payen's aircraft work: the types that he built but didn't design, the types that he designed but didn't build or the types for which he redrew plans for others to rebuild (movie replicas). It does NOT take into account Payen's non-aircraft designs such as the Fléchair HP 22 B « Héli-Plateforme » (a helicopter platform exhibited in 1972) or the various other systems, mechanisms and patents he produced over the years.

A very small number of designations previously quoted on this forum or elsewhere were still missing in the 1992 list. They might have been added later on, or perhaps not. They will be added to the chronology but indicated as unconfirmed or dubious.

I'm attaching a little something that shows Payen's near-obsession with properly designating and organizing his design history:
[list type=decimal]
[*]This detail shows the caption which accompanied the drawing of the Novae flying saucer in 1955. At the time, the Arbalète was the Pa.60 and so he designated this, his next project, quite logically as the Pa.61.
[*]When the Arbalète prototype was redesignated as Pa.61/B (for unknown reasons), Payen redesignated his Novae project as the Pa.64 and reworked the caption accordingly.
[*]At some later time, presumably when archiving his past works, Payen added the mention "K 55-91" on the side of the drawing to indicate that this was the 91st design in his K-list and was drafted in 1955 (similar hybrid date/number designations exist in the Pa. list, too).
[/list]
 

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Stargazer2006

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project #type designationdescriptiondraft yearstatus
K1RAP.10single-seat low-wing sports monoplane project designed at age 14 with Léon Levavasseur for Chaise1928not built
K2Zögling G.1Zögling-type glider built at age 151928flown
K3Beaucarnot (Airëau) YA.11seaplane for Jean Beaucarnot ("Société Airëau" was a company name, a coined word which could be translated as "air'n'water")1929flown
K3BBeaucarnot (Airëau)projected modification with three rockets (project cancelled after the workshop exploded)1929not built
K4Bratu Br.220three-engine monoplane by Romulus Bratu (Payen took part in its development as an engineer)19301 built and flown
K4BBratu Br.250four-engine twin-fuselage transport by Romulus Bratu (Payen took part in its development as an engineer)1930not built?
K5Sauvage-Payen (R)SP.230 « Autoplan »single-engine ogival delta-canard racer aircraft project designed with (also a wind-tunnel found as SP.23 O)1931patent 729.568 (Apr. 32)
K5BSauvage-Payen SP.240 light transport/medevac aircraft project for one crew and one stretcher derived from SP.2301931not built
K6RAP.40single-engine tandem-wing touring aircraft project inspired by Darmstadt D.18; one 30 hp Anzani engine1931not built
K7RP.60 (or RAP.60) « Aéria »single-seat glider project1931not built
K7BRP.7glider project inspired by the Baynes SCUD1931not built
K7CRAP.100single-seat fighter project1931not built
K7DRP.21single-seat sportsplane project1931not built
K8Sauvage-Payen SP.18 « Sky-Plane »light monoplane project with delta wing and a Rouméjon "Héliodisque"1931not built
K8BSauvage-Payen SP.181 « Sky-Plane »projected variant with a different landing gear1931not built
K9Jean Moreau JM.10three-/four-seat private aircraft modified by Jean Moreau from a Delanne II (F-AJGB) / SCA SFR.10 (Payen took part as an engineer)19321 modified (F-ANNI) and flown
K9BSauvage-Payen SP.190 single-engine delta-canard light transport/medevac aircraft project with 400 hp engine; 2 crew, 6 stretchers1932not built
K9CSauvage-Payen SP.170twin-engine delta-canard light transport/medevac aircraft project1932not built
K9DH.10hydroglider project1932not built
K10P.2one seat all-wood ultralight tailless aircraft (flying wing) project with high trapezoid wing and single 20 hp engine1932not built
K10BRAP.29mid-wing sports monoplane project1932not built
K11Sauvage-Payen SP.220"Jockey"-class light single-seat fighter project1932not built
?Sauvage-Payen SP.221light single-seat fighter project, a variant of the SP.2201932not built
K11BRP.220 « Astoria »speed aircraft project1932not built
?Sauvage-Payen SP.23 « Hélio-Flèche »project derived from SP.181932not built
K12Sauvage-Payen SP.23B « Météore »racer project1932not built
?Bétemps-Payen BP.1single-engine two-seat flying wing project with one 40 hp pusher engine (alternate designation for BP-10T?)1932not built
K13Bétemps-Payen BP.10Tsingle-engine two-seat flying wing project with one 75 hp pusher engine1933not built
K13BRAP.7general aviation flying wing project1933not built
K14B.1racing seaplane project with rocket engine1933not built
K15Sauvage-Payen SP.25 (or SP.250)delta-canard racer project for the 1933 Coupe Deutsch with two engines combined and contra-rotating pusher propellers1933wind tunnel model only
K16Sauvage-Payen SP.260 (or SP.26)single-engine design derivative of the SP-25 for the 1934 Coupe Deutsch with retractable landing gear; led to the Pa.1001933not built
K16BRP.261projected variant of SP.260 with fixed gear1933not built
K16CPayen Pa.100 «Flèche Volante »delta-canard aircraft for the 1934 Coupe Deutsch; retractable single wheel and Régnier engine (completed as Pa.101)1933airframe complete, no engine
K17Payen Pa.101single-seat modification of Pa.100 as record aircraft with 380 hp Gnôme & Rhône 7KD Titan Major radial engine1933crashed (during taxiing?)
K18Payen Pa.268single-seat racer project for the 1935 Coupe Deutsch; first study of the later Pa.221934not built
K19Payen Pa.270single-seat monoplane fighter project1934not built
K20Sauvage-Payen SP.300single-engine transport project1934not built
K21Payen Pa.100/R (first as NRP.260)experimental aircraft project, a version of the SP.260 with two Mélot ramjet engines ("NRP" stood for "Nicolas Roland Payen")1935not built
K22Aubrun-Payen AP.10 V1 « Uniplan »small single-engine flying wing with a 25/27 hp engine19351 built and flown
K23Payen-Mélot Pa.22/1R « Fléchair »experimental aircraft project with a Mélot ramjet engine1935construction abandoned
K23BPayen-Mélot PM.30A (Pa.35/30)projected version of Pa.22/1R with cockpit moved forward1935not built
K24Payen Pa.111project to modify the Pa.101 with a Hirth engine1935not built
K25Payen Pa.210 « Monobaby »projected development of RAP.401935not built
K26Payen Pa.22two-seat aircraft project (a derivative of the Pa.210?)1935not built
K26BPayen Pa.23projected three-seat derivative of the Pa.221935not built
K27Payen Pa.320Ptwin-engine postal aircraft project (or with four coupled engines and contra-rotating propellers?)1935not built
K27BPayen Pa.320Rprojected jet-powered derivative of Pa.3201935not built
K27CPayen Pa.321 (or P.321 AC3)
« Air Cruiser »
four-engine multiplace (3-seater) heavy fighter/light bomber project with 4 coupled engines (2 nacelles, contra props),
10 machine guns and 12 light bombs; submitted to 1934 C3 program
1935not built
K27DRP.400single-seat fighter project1935not built
K28RP.410single-seat fighter project1935not built
K28BRP.420single-seat fighter project1935not built
K29Payen Pa.22/2 (or Pa.220) « Fléchair »single-seat delta-canard aircraft with 180 hp engine; modified as the Pa.22/51936not built
K29Payen Pa 22/2 (or Pa.221) « Fléchair »
also known as Payen Pa.220-T2
single-engine two-seat delta-canard private aircraft; Pa.22/R1 redesigned and built with 70 hp Régnier 6B-01 engine
19351 built; taxiing tests only?
("lignes droites")
K30Payen Pa.110 (C1)single-seat delta-canard fighter project; counter-rotating propellers and 200 hp engine; also proposed to Spanish Republicans1936mock-up built
K31Aubrun-Payen AP.10 V2 « Uniplan »former AP.10 V1 re-engine with 40 hp engine19361 built and flown
??trans-Atlantic delta-wing flying boat transport project with 2000 hp total engine power?not built
K32Payen Pa.240GRsingle-engine single-seat "grand raid" delta-canard project, a derivative of the Pa.22 with a 315 hp engine1937not built
K33Payen Pa.250lightweight single-seat fighter project1937not built
?Payen Pa.323 (or P.323 AC3)design developed from Pa.321 for 1937 C3 program, probably similar to P.321AC; led to the P.310CB1937not built
K34Payen Pa.310 (or P.310 CB2)twin-engine two-seater delta-canard fighter-bomber project with contra-rotating propellers1937not built
K35Payen Pa.350 (or P.350CD)single-engine single-seat twin-fin delta-canard racer project for 1937 Coupe Deutsch; contra-rotating props, 150 hp/220 hp engine1937not built
K36Payen Pa.360twin-engine twin-fuselage delta-canard transport project1937not built
K36BPayen Pa.361 TPfour-engine twin-fuselage delta-canard long-range aircraft project (two groups)1937not built
K36CPayen Pa.362eight-engine twin-fuselage delta-canard long-range aircraft project (two groups)1937not built
K37Payen Pa.370twin-engine twin-fuselage transport project1937not built
K37BPayen Pa.340 TP (or P.340TP)twin-engine Transatlantic delta-canard transport project with contra-rotating propellers1937not built
K38Payen Pa.440Transatlantic aircraft project1937not built
K38BPayen Pa.445aircraft project designed to carry the Pa.4401937not built
K38CSAPA T.1general aviation two-seater project with limp wings1937not built
K39Payen Pa.110CDsingle-seat delta-canard racer for 1939(?) Coupe Deutsch; 200 to 400 hp engine, derived from Pa.100; completed as the Pa.110 C11938construction abandoned
K40Payen Pa.200 (or P.200)lightweight fighter project1938not built
K41Payen Pa.22/3 (or Pa.22 V3)tandem two-seater sporting aircraft project derived from the Pa.22 (also three-seater?)1938not built
K42Payen Pa.290single-/two-seat delta-canard private aircraft project with two interchangeable wings1938not built
K42BPayen Pa.330H (or P.330H)single-engine delta-canard utility amphibian aircraft project1938not built
K43Payen Pa.300 (C1)single-seat fighter project with 1000 hp Hispano-Suiza engine1938not built
K44Payen Pa.400carrier-borne twin-fin torpedo aircraft project developed for Mitsubishi for IJN; tricycle gear and contra-rotating propellers1938not built
K45Payen Pa.430HV « Éclair »twin-engine single-seat racing aircraft project with two 650 hp 14 M engines and contra-rotating propellers (HV = Haute Vitesse)1938not built
K46Payen Pa.112 C1single-seat twin-engine fighter derived from Pa.110 C1 with 200 hp engines and contra-rotating propellers1938full-scale mockup; not completed
K46BAubrun-Payen AP.10 V3 « Uniplan »former AP.10 V2 re-engine with 90 hp Régnier engine; never flew1938modified but not flown
K47Payen Pa.380 « Anaconda »twin-engine transatlantic mail carrier aircraft project1939not built
K47BLa.40 (or Pa.40?)two-seat single-hull amphibian project1939not built
K48Payen Pa/P1cruise missile project with piston engine1939not built
K49Payen Pa.225(CD) (also as Pa.25??)single-seat delta-canard racer project; Pa.22 derivative for 1939 Coupe Deutsch, 80/400 hp engine; completed as 2nd type Pa.22/21939not built
?Aubrun-Payen AP.11enlarged AP-10 derivative project with 60 hp engine1939not built
K50Payen Pa.500experimental aircraft project, a pure delta wing design with pusher engine and single track undercarriage1939not built
K50BPayen Pa.500Aprojected variant of Pa.500 with conventional landing gear1939not built
K51Aubrun-Payen AP.12 (Payen Pa.120)single-engine two-seat flying-wing project, derived from AP.10 but larger; enclosed cockpit, side-by-side seats, 40/50 hp engine1940not built
K52Payen Pa.22/4 (or Pa.22 V4)two-seat private aircraft project derived from the Pa.22 with two wingtip fins and one 220 hp engine1941not built
K53Payen Pa.22/5 (or Pa.22 V5)designation of the second type Pa.22/2 with separate cockpit and modified fin19411 built; first flown Oct. 18, 1941
K54Payen Pa.130twin-engine postal flying wing project of similar design to the AP.101941not built
K55Payen Pa.250twin-engine postal aircraft project1941not built
K56Payen Pa.360TP (also as P.360 TP?)single-engine Transatlantic transport project1941not built
?Payen Pa.42/1twin-engine twin-boom transport project with two 300 hp engines?not built
K57Payen Pa.42/5two-(three-?)engined twin-boom transport project with detachable cargo hold, one engine driving the wheels for ground handling1942not built
K58Payen Pa.22/6projected enlarged derivative ot the second type Pa.22/2 with larger canards1942not built
K59Payen Pa.22/7 (Pa.22S) « Fléchair Special »delta wing racing project derived from Pa.22/2 with folding canards (model built for French movie Retour de flamme in 1942)1942model built
K60Payen Pa.140two-seat twin-boom private aircraft project with pusher engine1943not built
K60BPayen Pa.141two-seat twin-boom mid-wing aircraft project with pusher engine derived from Pa.1401943not built
?Payen Pa.222three-seat derivative of the Pa.221943not built
?Payen Pa.225 (second)postal derivative of second type Pa.22/21943not built
K61Payen Pa.150 « Otarie »single-engine twin-boom high wing private amphibian pusher project1944not built
K61APayen Pa.160single-engine four-place low-wing private aircraft project (draft) with retractable landing gear and twin fins1944not built
?Payen Pa.161delta wing canard design, probably derived from Pa.160?not built
K61BPayen Pa.162variant of Pa.161 with fixed undercarriage, draft only1944not built
?Payen Pa.170single-engine twin-fin high-wing private aircraft project1944not built
K61CPayen Pa.180single-engine open cockpit private aircraft project (draft)1944not built
K61DPayen Pa.190 « Otarie II »twin-engine pusher amphibian project (draft), probably derived from the Pa.1501944not built
K62Payen Pa.C.100single-engine amphibian project (draft)1944not built
K62APayen Pa.200 « Club »twin-engine tandem two-seat private aircraft project (draft) with contra-rotating propellers and conventional landing gear1944not built
K62BPayen Pa.210 « Club »projected variant of Pa.200 (draft), no details1944not built
K62CPayen Pa.211 « Club »projected tricycle gear variant of Pa.200 (draft)1944not built
K63Payen Pa.240 Htwin-engine twin-boom amphibian private plane project, probably similar to the Pa.1501944not built
K63BPayen Pa.250twin-engine postal and colonial aircraft project (draft)1944not built
K63CPayen Pa.251variant of Pa.250 with widened fuselage (draft)1944not built
K64Payen Pa.26 G* (*for Gayral)single-engine single-seater with circular wing and 80 hp engine, developed with Gayral194480% complete
K64BPayen Pa.26/2projected variant of Pa.26G (draft)1944not built
K64BPayen Pa.26/3projected variant of Pa.26G (draft)1944not built
K64BPayen Pa.26/4projected variant of Pa.26G (draft)1944not built
K64CPayen Pa.270jet-powered delta-winged aircraft project (draft) with retractable canards1944not built
?Payen Pa.48became the Pa.4991945not built
K65Payen-Carmier Pa.C.10 « Sansonnet »projected production version of the Carmier C.10 "Sansonnet"1946not built
K65APayen Pa.170projected variant of C.10 with tricycle gear (draft)1946not built
K65BPayen Pa.46/1 « Fléchair »twin-fin project with Mélot jet engine, developed from K23 (draft)1946not built
K65CPayen Pa.46/2single-fin variant, project (draft)1946not built
K65DPayen Pa.46/3single-jet delta-winged aircraft project (draft)1946not built
K65EPayen Pa.46/4twin-jet flying wing project (draft)1946not built
K65FPayen Pa.46/5twin-jet flying wing project (draft)1946not built
K65GPayen Pa.46/6twin-fin, single-jet delta-winged aircraft project (draft)1946not built
K65HPayen Pa.46/7single-jet delta-winged aircraft project with retractable canards (draft)1946not built
K65JPayen Pa.46/8twin-jet "Fléchair" type aircraft project (draft)1946not built
K65KPayen Pa.46/12single-jet tailless aircraft project (draft)1946not built
K65LPayen Pa.46/13 « Alligator »twin-engine canard amphibian project (draft)1946not built
K66Payen Pa.46/16 « Canari »general aviation two-seater project (draft)1946not built
K66APayen Pa.180twin-engine amphibian project (draft)1946not built
K66BPayen Pa.46/400 « Roland I »general aviation four-seater aircraft project (draft)1946not built
K66CPayen Pa.46/410 « Roland II »general aviation four-seater single-jet aircraft project (draft)1946not built
K67Payen Pa.600twin-engine twin-boom high-wing transport aircraft project1946not built
K67AAéraplane Aé.100general aviation tailless aircraft project (draft) with fixed gear and pusher engine (draft)1946not built
K67BAéraplane Aé.101variant of Aé.100 with retractable landing gear (draft)1946not built
K67CAéraplane Aé.110projected variant of Aé.100 (no details) with fixed landing gear (draft)1946not built
K67DAéraplane Aé.111variant of Aé.110 with retractable landing gear (draft)1946not built
K67EAéraplane Aé.120projected variant of Aé.100 (no details) (draft)1946not built
K67FRolandair Ro.10two-seat private aircraft project with pusher engine (draft)1946not built
K67GUniplan UP.10single-seat flying school glider project (draft)1946not built
K67HUniplan UP.11two-seat flying school glider project (draft)1946not built
K67JUniplan UP.12single-seat single-engine training aircraft project (draft)1946not built
K67KUniplan UP.13two-seat single-engine flying school aircraft project (draft)1946not built
K67LUniplan UP.14three-seat single-engine primary training aircraft project (draft)1946not built
K67MUniplan UP.15Htwo-seat flying school amphibian project (draft)1946not built
K67NUniplan UP.16Hracing seaplane project (draft)1946not built
K67PUniplan UP.20flying wing glider project (draft)1946not built
K68Payen Pa.46/Ageneral aviation two-seat project inspired by the US Barling (Nicholas-Beazley) NB-31946not built
K68BPayen Pa.46/252 « Explorateur »twin-engine twin-boom aircraft project1946not built
K69Payen Pa.46/17 « Paloma »twin-engine passenger transport plane project1946not built
K70Payen Pa.47/04aerobatic biplane project1947not built
K71Payen Pa.47/01 (Pa.470) « Plein Air »
a.k.a. « Week-end », « Aéria » and Pa.27
single-engine high-wing sports aircraft with 65 hp engine, a Rémy Gaucher design ("Pa.27" also found in experimental register)19471 built (F-PFKY); 1st flown June 18, 1949
K72Payen Pa.47/02 (Pa.472) « Aéria »projected preseries variant of Pa.47/1 (or former Pa.47/1 with modified wing?)1947not built?
K73Payen Pa.47/03 (Pa.473) « Week-end »projected derivative of Pa.47/1 with tricycle landing gear1947not built
K74Payen Pa.48/22 (Pa.22D) « Fléchair »twin-fin derivative of second type Pa.22/2 with forward-swept, downward-canted canards1948not built
K75Payen Pa.48/2 (Pa.250) « Aérobreak »twin-engine twin-boom cargo aircraft project1948not built
K76Payen Pa.48/3 (Pa.483) « Mars »delta-wing single-jet interceptor project with one 2,270 kgp Nene jet engine1948full-scale mockup only
K77Payen Pa.48/5projected two-seat sports derivative of the Pa.48/3 one piston engine and pusher prop1948not built
K78Payen Pa.48/6projected single-seat delta-winged, apparently derived from the Pa.48/51950not built
K78BPayen Pa.49-001delta-winged jet aircraft project1950not built
K79Payen Pa.49A « Delta Jet »small experimental single-turbojet-powered delta-wing aircraft with 150 kgp engine19501 built; first flown Jan. 22, 1954
?Payen Pa.499two-seat delta-wing private aircraft project with 100 hp engine (developed from the Pa.48)1951not built
K80Payen Pa.50delta-winged glider project1951not built
K80BPayen Pa.50Bdelta-winged glider project with prone pilot and four SNECMA pulsejet engines ("Escopettes")1951not built
K81Payen Pa.51 (Pa.510) « Agricavia »single-engine high-wing tricycle agricultural aircraft195170% complete
K81BPayen Pa.52single-seat agricultural aircraft project1952not built
K82Payen (Fléchair) Pa.49B « Katy »former Pa.49A (K79) modified with undercarriage legs were faired and main wheels enclosed in spats19531 built (F-WGVA); flown in 1957
K82BPayen Pa.49/2 (or Pa.492)projected single-jet single-seat trainer derivative of Pa.491953not built
?Payen Pa.49/5 (or Pa.495)projected twin-seat derivative of Pa.49?not built
K83Payen Pa.53 « Roland »single-jet aircraft project, perhaps a fighter1953not built
K84Payen Pa.54lightweight interceptor project1953not built
K85Payen Pa.55fighter project with retractable canards1953not built
K86Payen Pa.56 « Jockey »single-jet delta-wing tandem two-seat fighter (trainer?) project1953not built
K87Payen Pa.57 « Aton »twin-jet twin-fin two-seat flying wing trainer project with 750 kgp engine1954not built
K88Payen Pa.59 « Aldébaran »single-jet delta-wing tailsitter VTOL interceptor project1954not built
K89Payen-Fouga Pa.562 « Magister-Delta »delta-wing trainer project developed from Pa.56 and using 70% of the parts of a Fouga Magister1954not built
K90Payen Pa.60 « Arbalète »single-engine lambda-wing two-seat aircraft with side-by-side seating, fixed landing gear, 105 hp Hirth engine; became Pa.611954not completed; became K94
K91Payen Pa.64 (first as Pa.61) « Novae »single-jet flying saucer powered by one 350 kgp Marboré engine (also 500 kgp engine in 1958) (also known as the Pa.26 "Minié")1955not built
K92Payen Pa.675twin-jet transport aircraft project designed with the École Polytechnique Féminine1956not built
K93Payen Pa.60/1 « Arbalète »projected two-seat version of the Pa.60 studied for the SFASA contest1956not built
K93BPayen Pa.61 « Arbalète »projected variant of Pa.60 for Germany1956not built
K94Payen Pa.61/B « Arbalète I »three-seat variant of Pa.60 with 105 hp engine, reworked from uncompleted Pa.6019571 built (F-WKVS); 1st flown May 1965
?Payen Pa.26 « Minié »redesignation of Pa.61/Pa.64 "Novae" (or flying car/roadable aircraft project?)?not built
K95Payen Pa.68 « Aérocycle »compound private autogyro project with 90 hp engine1958not built
K96Payen Pa.Z10 « Guépard »twin-engine three-fin tandem-wing flying wing with canards (also found as the "Pa.M10")195880% complete
K97Payen-Guérin Pa.G5 « Aéracar »straight-wing twin-boom flyable car/roadable aircraft195860% complete
K98Payen-Druine Pa.D1 « Condor »projected construction under license of Druine "Condor"1959not built
K99Payen Pa.65 « Otarie II »lambda-winged amphibian project1959not built
K100Payen Pa.66 « Aéraplane »single-engine experimental air cushion vehicle project with 80 hp engine196085% complete
K101Payen-Guérin Pa.G5B « Aéracar »flyable car/roadable aircraft project1961not built
K101BPayen-Guérin Pa.G5-004flyable car/roadable aircraft project1961not built
K102Payen Pa.69 « Aérovoilier »lambda-winged glider project1961not built
??Payen Pa.81version of Pa.61 with Lycoming engine offered to Germany (probably rather similar to K93B)1961not built
K103Payen Pa.67 « Ménestrel »ultralight aircraft project with tandem wings and single pusher engine1962not built
K104Airspeed AS.51 « Horsa »replica constructed for the movie The Longest Day19621 built
K104BWaco CG-4A « Hadrian »rebuild for a museum19621 built for static display
K105Payen Pa.70 « Paraplane »single-engine private aircraft project with limp delta wing and 90 hp engine1964not built
K106Payen Pa.71 « Midget »delta wing racing aircraft project with 100 hp Continental engine1964not built
K107Payen Pa.72 « Paraplane »single-engine private aircraft project with limp delta wing1964not built
K108Nord Aviation N.2501 « Noratlas »projected modification as a water bomber1965not built
K109Payen Pa.73V2 « Aérobreak »small twin-turboprop monoplane transport project with fixed landing gear1966not built
K110Payen Pa.73V3 « Aérobreak »small twin-turboprop monoplane transport project 1966not built
K110APayen Pa.73V4 « Aérobreak »small twin-turboprop monoplane transport project 1966not built
K110BPayen Pa.74 « Aérobreak »small twin-turboprop push-pull monoplane transport project with fixed landing gear1966not built
K111Payen Pa.61/Dmodification of Pa.61/B19671 modified and flown
K111BPayen Pa.61Eprojected modification of Pa.61/D1967not built
K112Payen Pa.61F « Arbalète II » (or V2)three-seat lambda-winged touring aircraft evolved from Pa.61/B with fixed landing gear and a 180 hp engine19671 built; F-WSQA (taxiing tests in 1970)
K113Payen Pa.62 V1four-seat lambda-wing private aircraft project with 200 hp pusher engine1967not built
K114Payen Pa.62 V2four-seat lambda-wing private aircraft project with 400 hp pusher engine and a ducted propeller1967not built
K115Payen Pa.62 V3planned jet-powered variant of Pa.62 V21967not built
K116Payen Pa.63four-seat twin-jet lambda-wing aircraft project developed from Pa.57 "Aton" (K87) with 300 kgp engine1968not built
K117Payen Pa.75 « Épervier »experimental autogyro with 80 hp engine; also found as the "Minicoptair"1969construction abandoned
K118Payen Pa.G3/Preplicas of two Caudron G.III aircraft19692 built and flown
K119Payen Pa.77twin-engine lambda-winged push-pull aircraft project1970not built
K120Payen Pa.61/H « Fer de Lance »projected derivative of the Pa.61F and G with two side-by-side 160 kgp jet engines1970not built
K121Payen Pa.76 « Irène »projected 1923 Nieuport-Delage racer replica1970not built
K122Payen Pa.610 « Arbalète »projected "duck-billed" variant1970not built
K123Payen Pa.61/G4 « Arbalète »projected derivative of the Pa.61F with (retractable) canards; also found as plain Pa.61G1971not built
K124Payen Pa.149tandem-seat trainer derivative of the Pa.49 with 2 x 300 kgp thrust engines or a single Palas jet engine of 350-400 kgp thrust1971not built
Fléchair HP 22 B « Héli-Plateforme »helicopter platform exhibited in 1972?not built
K125Payen Pa.61/F3 « Cross-Bow »projected variant of "Arbalète", no details1972not built
K126Wright "Flyer"Wright "Flyer" replica constructed for the French TV series Les faucheurs de marguerites19731 built and flown
K126AHargrave gliderHargrave glider replica constructed for the French TV series Les faucheurs de marguerites19731 built and flown
K126BVoisin gliderVoisin glider replica constructed for the French TV series Les faucheurs de marguerites19731 built and flown
K126CLilienthal gliderLilienthal glider replica constructed for the French TV series Les faucheurs de marguerites19731 built and flown
K127number skipped by mistake
K128Payen Pa.249 « Katy II »projected retractable-gear version of Pa.49 made of composite materials1975not built
K129Payen Pa.610 « Arbalète III »projected single-engine 4-seat derivative of the Pa.61 with a 200 hp engine; also found as Pa.61O, possibly a mistake1976not built
K130Dép/Preplica of Maurice Prévost's 1913 Gordon-Bennett winning Déperdussin, constructed for the French TV series Le temps des as19771 built (F-AZAR) and flown in 1977
K131« Sea Albatros »modification of a DeHavilland DH.82 "Tiger Moth" as the "Sea Albatros" for a movie19771 modified and flown
K132Payen Pa.25B1 « Bâtard de Neyap »single-seat Nieuport II fuselage replica mated with lower wing of a Tiger Moth; 90 hp Continental engine; built for Le temps des as19771 built and flown; crashed May 1978
K1332A2/Pmodification of two Caudron C.270 aircraft to look like Salmson 2A2 types for French TV film L'équipage then La conquête du ciel19772 modified and flown
K134XIV/P V1Bréguet XIV T replica constructed by Salis for the French movie La conquête du ciel19781 built (F-AZBH) and flown in 1979
K135XIV/P V2two Bréguet XIV A2 replicas constructed by Salis for the French movie La conquête du ciel, despite lack of original plans19792 built and flown
K13617PLatécoère 17 replica constructed by Salis for the French movie L'aéropostale19791 built and flown
K137RAK.1Pvon Opel RAK.1 replica constructed by Salis for French TV series L'adieu aux as, using a Castel 310 glider as a basis19801 built and flown
K138Payen Pa.80experimental aircraft project with mobile forward wing1981not built
K139Payen Pa.349V2remotely piloted aircraft for forest surveillance purposes, derived from Pa.49; took off from vehicle and landed with parachute1981construction abandoned
K139BPayen Pa.349V3remotely piloted aircraft for surveillance purposes1981not built
K140Payen Pa.449remotely piloted aircraft for surveillance purposes1981not built
K141Payen Pa.167projected derivative of Pa.67 (K103)1981not built
K142SPAD XIIIprojected replica1981not built
K143Fok.D1PFokker triplane replica constructed for a movie19821 built and flown
K144modification of a North American T-6 "Texan" as a Commonwealth "Boomerang" for a movie19831 built and flown
K145Payen Pa.161projected lambda-wing tandem two-seater derivative of Pa.61 with canards and 75 hp engine1983not built
K146ultralight aircraft for Naudin1983construction abandoned
K147Payen Pa.261projected three-seat derivative of the Pa.611984not built
K148Payen Pa.610continuation of the K129 study1984not built
K148BP.2Bflying wing glider project1984not built
K149Payen Pa.122projected update on the Pa.22 design1984not built
K150Payen Pa.147projected update on the Pa.47/02 design1983not built
K151Payen Pa.151fitting of a Jacobs engine on a Fairchild 24 aircraft19831 modified and flown
K152Payen Pa.152ultralight project1983not built
K152BPayen Pa 152C « Visair I »two-seat ultralight plane with one 50 hp Citroën M29 engine, developed from a Roger Schweitzer project19844 built and flown; first flown Mar. 84
K153fitting of a SCOMA diesel engine on a Cessna L-19 aircraft19841 modified and flown
K154fabrication of a 14.6 sq.m. wing for a Rearwin "Skyranger"1984wing built but never fitted
K155SPAD 13Pstudy of a metal fuselage for the SPAD XIII1985not built
K156Aubrun-Payen AP.10V4projected new version of the Aubrun-Payen AP.10 design1985not built
K157M.S.G. wing (?) for Jean Salis19871 fitted and flown, 1 cancelled
K158rebuild of a Gasnier aircraft1986not completed
K159Payen Pa.100non-flying replica for the Musée Delta in Athis-Mons19861 built for static display
K160S.P.G.agricultural aircraft project for China1987not built
K161aerobatics device to be fitted onto a Morane-Saulnier MS.500 "Criquet"1987presumably fitted and flown
K162study for Pégoud's Blériot XI/21989unknown
K162B« Agri Visair »agricultural aircraft project1989not built
K163« Oiseau Blanc »study for a replica of the P.L.8 "Oiseau Blanc"1990unknown
K164study for an interchangeable engine unit to be fitted to a Laté 26 for a movie1991unknown
K165study for an interchangeable engine unit to be fitted to a Laté 28 for a movie1991unknown
K166study for an interchangeable engine unit to be fitted to a Bréguet XIVfor a movie1991unknown
K167Payen Pa.61/91new study for a derivative of the "Arbalète"1991not built
K168Payen Pa.171projected design derivative of Pa.71 with Pa.49 delta wing and "Rotax" engine for amateur flying1992not built
 

Jemiba

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Many thanks for that great work ! It hopefully will revive this topic. ;)
Of much more than half those designs, we have no idea, what they looked like !
Come on folks, squeeze your resources ! Don't know, if there's still much sense
in waiting for a book about, we probably really have to do it on our own.
 

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Wow ! I just red your good (english) work Stargazer ! :)

Jemiba said:
Many thanks for that great work ! It hopefully will revive this topic. ;)
Of much more than half those designs, we have no idea, what they looked like !
Come on folks, squeeze your resources ! Don't know, if there's still much sense
in waiting for a book about, we probably really have to do it on our own.
I think you're right. I wanted to go to the Musee Delta for some weeks (and to give to them some airplane comics with a character, "Mr. Peyan", looking like Mr.Payen : Les ailes de Plomb) and to ask about the book of Gaillard-Molveau but the Musee is still closed... :( And we began this topic six years ago... :-\

It is maybe time for me to find time to go again on Secretprojects (and to torture once again the english language ;D) and on my french list on AviationsMilitaires.net... And i did not forget that i had to answer to you on another link ;)
 

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I got today Le Fana from February 2014

By chance there is an article (the third in the story of Le Fana. The first had three parts, and the second, the best, had two parts) by Roland de Narbonne about the Payen's planes. Nothing very new for the reader of Secretprojects. One mistake (the flying Pa.49 is the B, not the A...). The article says that the Pa.22 flew only one time (it confirms another information, but other autors said that it flew several times) and that it was foreseen to go to Germany after this sole flying time.
 

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Deltafan said:
I got today Le Fana from February 2014

By chance there is an article (the third in the story of Le Fana. The first had three parts, and the second, the best, had two parts) by Roland de Narbonne about the Payen's planes. Nothing new for the reader of Secretprojects. One mistake (the flying Pa.49 is the B, not the A...). The article says that the Pa.22 flew only one time (it confirms another information, but other autors said that it flew several times) and that it was foreseen to go to Germany after this sole flying time.

This kind of mistake is unacceptable for a publication such as Le Fana, which had gotten us used to much higher standards in the past.


I have become terribly disappointed by Le Fana, whose standards have gone down tremendously, and if I want some truly detailed and exhaustive articles, and articles about less known aircraft types, then Avions is a MUCH better buy for my money...
 

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Jemiba said:
If we don't want to wait for at least another seven years ... we just have to work it out on our own !
(...)
I talked with Pierre Gaillard today...

He said to me that the book about Payen's planes and projects must be available this year (2014). He could finally find a Publisher.

I hope so.
 

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Deltafan said:
He said to me that the book about Payen's planes and projects must be available this year (2014). He could finally find a Publisher.
That's VERY good news!!!
 

Jemiba

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Great, keep us informed, please ! ;)
 

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Has Pierre considered publishing this online?

For a price that he could determine, someone interested could buy the pdf file of the book.

That way he wouldn't have to wait for a publisher to deign to consider publishing his book.

Sorry about the slightly sarcastic line.
 

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Well, in the DVD of Mémoire et patrimoine vivant http://www.secretprojects.co.uk/forum/index.php/topic,24580.msg247803.html#msg247803

M. Payen speaks about two "désignations" :

a Pa.161, but with jet. So it's an unknown version of the :

-K145 Payen Pa.161 projected lambda-wing tandem two-seater derivative of Pa.61 with canards and 75 hp engine 1983 not built

Addendum : I just saw the bottom left of this "Pa.161 with jet engine" (what M. Payen says to the interviewer), it's wrote Pa.261-01, so it's :

-K147 Payen Pa.261 projected three-seat derivative of the Pa.61 1984 not built


During the interview, M. Payen speaks about the :

-K92 Payen Pa.675 twin-jet transport aircraft project designed with the École Polytechnique Féminine 1956 not built

and says that it was a "Concorde-like jet".

So, it could be this one, which is on the Payen patent part of the Musee Delta website :

http://museedelta.free.fr/payen/brevets/perfectionnement%20aux%20avions/bns2.pdf
 

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maxmwill said:
Has Pierre considered publishing this online?

For a price that he could determine, someone interested could buy the pdf file of the book.

That way he wouldn't have to wait for a publisher to deign to consider publishing his book.

Sorry about the slightly sarcastic line.
Sorry I found this post only today :-[

Well, it's a good question. I'll ask the next time that i'll meet M. Gaillard or somebody of the Musee Delta...
 

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Great news my dear Deltafan.
 

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hesham said:
Great news my dear Deltafan.
Thanks Hesham ;)

I just added something in my previous post about the "unknown version of the Pa.161 with jet engine" : it's certainly the Pa.261, but now, contrary to before, we know that it had a jet engine.

With a better computer screen or a better TV screen or a better DVD-reader it's possible that other things will be found (the engine of the Pa.261 for example).
 

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In my files,

there was a Project for long range airplane,could flight to far distance,and never mentioned in Stargazer's
list at reply # 57,later I will send all details.
 
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hesham

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there was a Project for long range airplane,could flight to far distance,and never mentioned in Stargazer's
list at reply # 57,later I will send all details.
Hi,

I think or maybe this missing Project,was taken the designation Pa.??,it's only my speculation.
 
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There's been several mentions of the range of designs covered by Pa.46 designations. One - the Pa.46/16 - is described as a "design for 2-seat touring aircraft". That sounds about right but the project I'm looking for was listed as the 1946 Payen Pa.46/A. Has anyone come across that specific designation?

I've seen this unbuilt Pa.46/A described as a general aviation 2-seater inspired by the Walter H. Barling-designed Nicholas-Beazley NB-3 light plane. That seemed a little odd - if true, that Barling design was over 15 years old by the time Payen considered it.

BTW: The Remy Gaucher concept that becomes the Pa.47 Weekend, etc. began as Gaucher's 1935 W.E.47 design.
 

hesham

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there was a Project for long range airplane,could flight to far distance,and never mentioned in Stargazer's
list at reply # 57,later I will send all details.
From Ailes 1935,here it's.
 

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I don't think, there's any need to invent a new designation for this one, just have a look at project
K27 from the list, you've mentioned:
Twin fuselages, two coupled inline engines, and the P.320 was intended as a long range, fast postal
aircraft. And the date of the publication fits, too ...
 

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OK my dear Jemiba,

but 7000 km range ?.
 

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That's exactly what is mentioned in a list compiled by Ferdinand C.W. Käsmann, who visited personally Roland Payen in
the Musée Delta in Athis-Mons , France, in 2001. I could have a look into his copious collection of sources about Payen (though
mainly second hand sources, there were a number actually written down after interviewing Roland Payen), collected by Mr. Käsmann
(known from a number of books), as it thankfully was given to me for some time by our member boxkite.
BTW, sorry, in my previous post, I mixed up the P.320P with the P.360, but the P.320 probably could have had enough tankage due to
the big delta wing. Additionally it should be taken into account, that all those projects, rather were, what we nowadays would call
"concepts", so the predicted performances should always be taken with a pinch of salt.
But during those years "long range" often just meant transatlantic range.
 

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