Man in space

[Michel Van]

For starters, in order to even begin to define any craft or vehicle,

Is this satisfactory information?

Yes and No
You need a believable infrastructure, most will be decor in your game, but give credit to Worldbuilding, convincing the player

Large Launch complex
Heavy Launch rocket, somehow that stuff in orbit on Moon and Mars has to be launch...
Manned Launch Rocket aka Space Shuttle and one with more then two seats
you can keep the Glider als British Military part like RoBo or Dyna Soar
need low orbit Space station ? or goes Shuttle direct to moon (nuclear engine ) or dock with nuclear Ferry for that ?
Surface Base and ground vehicle
need for interplanetary space craft that goes to Mars, Venus, Jupiter ?
All this need Power: Solar Thermal or Nuclear ? that influence the Design and needed Game engine for your game !
what i mean is the Large mirrors for Solar Thermal power plant and it rendering by game engine.

Realistic or Ray-Gun aesthetically pleasing ? since you walk in H.G. Wells territory !

also, I think I'll start working on a convergence between the two garments, yours and the flight uniform, if you don't mind of course?

Go ahead its free design, just put my name in small print as free contribution...

 

[Sineva]

those are some interesting suits to say the least, I can definitely see some of Leonov's suit influencing their design a bit

Whats rather funny is that in the story the characters are actually americans.
I do quite like the lights mounted in the shoulders of the backpack units.
Whats really impressive tho is the scenes with quite a lot of actors in suits,its probably second to 1981s outland for the most number of prop suits in a shot,tho a lot of the suits look to be using good old gsh6 aeronautical pressure suit helmets rather than the eva yastrebs

 

[Gentleman’s Astronautics]

do you want the system concepts to be technically plausible or just aesthetically pleasing, since the sharp nose would be an engineering no go for a vertically launched reentry vehicle due to aerothermodynamic heating considerations

Well, I'd want it to be largely technically plausible for the 50s, as when it was designed they believed it could work, so as technically plausible as can be, within reason of course. If I remember correctly, the glider would use the reentry skip method, and make a full two circuits of the globe to ween off speed, then be able to land (probably with Gloster Meteor escort). Some aspects of the design could lend themselves more to aesthetics, like lots of cupboards, and the astrodome.

Same goes for the tank, while the astrodome would probably not be as structurally sound, I would go largely on aesthetics for that one, as most illustrations of the time do have large astrodomes (even Tintin lol). As for the turbine, I didn't explain myself clearly, what I meant was the tank would utilise an HTP turbine. Batteries would be too unreliable for a vehicle of such size, and the solar panel in-universe was outpaced by the Mercury boiler.

 

[martinbayer]

Well, I'd want it to be largely technically plausible for the 50s, as when it was designed they believed it could work, so as technically plausible as can be, within reason of course. If I remember correctly, the glider would use the reentry skip method, and make a full two circuits of the globe to ween off speed, then be able to land (probably with Gloster Meteor escort). Some aspects of the design could lend themselves more to aesthetics, like lots of cupboards, and the astrodome.

Same goes for the tank, while the astrodome would probably not be as structurally sound, I would go largely on aesthetics for that one, as most illustrations of the time do have large astrodomes (even Tintin lol). As for the turbine, I didn't explain myself clearly, what I meant was the tank would utilise an HTP turbine. Batteries would be too unreliable for a vehicle of such size, and the solar panel in-universe was outpaced by the Mercury boiler.

I think I will have to politely bow out of offering any further advice to you because as a form follows function guy my lodestar orientation as an aerospace engineer is always oriented to the actual future rather than re-imagining the past (other than a very private pet peeve that I hope I will be able to share in this august forum before long), so I wish you all the best on your endeavors, and farewell.

 

[Gentleman’s Astronautics]

Yes and No
You need a believable infrastructure, most will be decor in your game, but give credit to Worldbuilding, convincing the player

Large Launch complex
Heavy Launch rocket, somehow that stuff in orbit on Moon and Mars has to be launch...
Manned Launch Rocket aka Space Shuttle and one with more then two seats
you can keep the Glider als British Military part like RoBo or Dyna Soar
need low orbit Space station ? or goes Shuttle direct to moon (nuclear engine ) or dock with nuclear Ferry for that ?
Surface Base and ground vehicle
need for interplanetary space craft that goes to Mars, Venus, Jupiter ?
All this need Power: Solar Thermal or Nuclear ? that influence the Design and needed Game engine for your game !
what i mean is the Large mirrors for Solar Thermal power plant and it rendering by game engine.

Realistic or Ray-Gun aesthetically pleasing ? since you walk in H.G. Wells territory !


Go ahead its free design, just put my name in small print as free contribution...

I'll go through it point by point, as there is a fair bit to cover:

- For a large launch complex, the Rocket Research Establishment was built on the Kenyan coast, with three orbital launch complexes (two manned, one unmanned. These complexes are the more traditional V-2 basin, with three basins per complex.)
- A larger, lunar launch complex is a little further down the coast, out of the way, as it uses a chemical and nuclear booster.
- Check in the glider, it has two seats
- The BIC is a more civilian agency, but I don't see why they couldn't have fitted one of those photo-recon cameras they had on later mark spitfires...
- Well, the BIC has got the station, but it isn't necessarily needed for sending a small glider to the moon, as the glider would rendezvous with a tanker rocket, manoeuvre next to it, the crew EVAs, then connects a pipe to pump the fuel. This is just enough of a boost to get it to TLI
- There is a large surface base (Prospero Point) at Mons Piton, about 150 personnel, but it was operating at about 100 at the time of the siege, as the other 50 had gone off to man the base camps further afield. Surface vehicles consist of a modified Conqueror chassis with the turret removed and a barrel shaped, pressurised crew compartment, that can house 4 men for about 3 weeks.
- They haven't sent anything to mars yet, as the moon race took priority.
- The power supply for the base is largely supplied by an array of Solar Mirrors, and a nuclear reactor, the Thunderchild.
- I'd definitely say much more realistic than ray gun, but perhaps a bit of aesthetically pleasing stuff wouldn't be amiss.

- As for you name, perhaps you could be the official, in-universe, contractor for the flight suits "Van Flight Garments ltd."

 

[Gentleman’s Astronautics]

I think I will have to politely bow out of offering any further advice to you because as a form follows function guy my lodestar orientation as an aerospace engineer is always oriented to the actual future rather than re-imagining the past (other than a very private pet peeve that I hope I will be able to share in this august forum before long), so I wish you all the best on your endeavors, and farewell.

That's fair enough, and good luck in your endeavours too, my good man

 

[publiusr]

Indeed,the soviet Krechet-94 lunar suit backpack is also a rather complicated looking affair....

The best part of that set up if you incorporate that as part of suit-port infrastructure is it keeps regolith outside.

I'd still want a clamshell outside and a full airlock leading to it for layered safety.

 

[Gentleman’s Astronautics]

Go ahead its free design, just put my name in small print as free contribution...

Right, I’ll be modelling the Van Flight suit mk.II off of these RAF garments, I just need to find the name of the dark blue overalls that go from the shoulder to the thighs, I can’t find it anywhere. Plus the yellow patch with the map pocket and the survival knife is peak

 

[southwestforests]

RAF garments, I just need to find the name of the dark blue overalls that go from the shoulder to the thighs, I can’t find it anywhere.

That is indeed interesting, wish I had info to provide. Will stay tuned for further developments.

 

[Gentleman’s Astronautics]

That is indeed interesting, wish I had info to provide. Will stay tuned for further developments.

ah thats alright, what neat features did the apollo garments have? Apart from being uber thin

 

[southwestforests]

what neat features did the apollo garments have?

My health is a bit of a mess now and memory doesn't retain info like it used to,
so I'd have to go look it up.
Which brings to mind,
this book by the Smithsonian a few decades ago,
Author Lillian D. Kozloski, who was a resident expert on space suits from 1970s to 1990s.

 

[southwestforests]

what neat features did the apollo garments have?

Part 2: I do remember that info on the web exists, such as these re-found just now via Googling, astronaut glove hand cold;

Hands and Gloves in Space

There is a common saying that the hands are where the mind meets the world. In space there is no direct contact between the mind and the world. This transaction is mediated by the artificial structures called gloves.

airandspace.si.edu

Warm Hands and Feet | NASA Spinoff

spinoff.nasa.gov

Also,

look for a PDF from NASA,

Spacesuit Glove Induced Hand Trauma and Analysis of
Potentially Related Risk Variables

Chacqueline M. Charvat1 and Jason Norcross2
Wyle Laboratories/NASA-JSC, Houston, TX
Christopher R. Reid3
Lockheed Martin/NASA-JSC, Houston, TX
and
Shane M. McFarland4
MEI Technologies/NASA-JSC, Houston, TX

Injuries to the hands are common among astronauts who train for extravehicular activity (EVA). When the gloves are pressurized, they restrict movement and create pressure points during tasks, sometimes resulting in pain, muscle fatigue, abrasions, and occasionally more severe injuries such as onycholysis. Glove injuries, both anecdotal and recorded, have been reported during EVA training and flight persistently through NASA’s history regardless of mission or glove model. Theories as to causation such as glove-hand fit are common but often lacking in supporting evidence. Previous statistical analysis has evaluated onycholysis in the context of crew anthropometry only.
The purpose of this study was to analyze all injuries (as documented in the medical records) and available risk factor variables with the goal to determine engineering and operational controls that may reduce hand injuries due to the EVA glove in the future. A literature review and data mining study were conducted between 2012 and 2014. This study included 179 US NASA crew who trained or completed an EVA between 1981 and 2010 (crossing both Shuttle and ISS eras) and wore either the 4000 Series or Phase VI glove during Extravehicular Mobility Unit (EMU) spacesuit EVA training and flight. All injuries recorded in medical records were analyzed in their association to candidate risk factor variables. Those risk factor variables included demographic characteristics, hand anthropometry, glove fit characteristics, and training/EVA characteristics.
Utilizing literature, medical records and anecdotal causation comments recorded in crewmember injury data, investigators were able to identify several risk factors associated with increased risk of glove related injuries. Prime among them were smaller hand anthropometry, duration of individual suited exposures, and improper glove-hand fit as calculated by the difference in the anthropometry middle finger length compared to the baseline EVA glove middle finger length.

See also:

Getting a Hand Up on Spacewalks

astronauttomjones.com

 

[Gentleman’s Astronautics]

My health is a bit of a mess now and memory doesn't retain info like it used to,
so I'd have to go look it up.
Which brings to mind,
this book by the Smithsonian a few decades ago,
Author Lillian D. Kozloski, who was a resident expert on space suits from 1970s to 1990s.

View attachment 728451

this should be most helpful, I wonder if there's a copy on Archive.org

 

[Gentleman’s Astronautics]

Go ahead its free design, just put my name in small print as free contribution...

How are these, bearing in mind it is just a rough draft. Any input?

My health is a bit of a mess now and memory doesn't retain info like it used to,
so I'd have to go look it up.
Which brings to mind,
this book by the Smithsonian a few decades ago,
Author Lillian D. Kozloski, who was a resident expert on space suits from 1970s to 1990s.

View attachment 728451

also, have I shown you lot my design for the American suits yet? I made several major revisions

 

[Michel Van]

ow are these, bearing in mind it is just a rough draft. Any input?

they are good

 

[Gentleman’s Astronautics]

they are good

any alterations to recommend?

 

[Gentleman’s Astronautics]

they are good

what from your suits would ye recommend I implement into the designs?

 

[Michel Van]

what from your suits would ye recommend I implement into the designs?

the fold helmet
and way to attach the Portable Life support to suit, so Hero has both hand free.

On the selenites
the design is good keep it

 

[southwestforests]

so Hero has both hand free.

Speaking of hands, go back a few posts and see the 4 references in my "Part 2" post Friday at 14:56 - hands have been a long running issue with spacesuits.

 

[Gentleman’s Astronautics]

Speaking of hands, go back a few posts and see the 4 references in my "Part 2" post Friday at 14:56 - hands have been a long running issue with spacesuits.

well, in the original plans and on the actually made reproduction of the suit, there were two layers to the gloves, like the apollo suits. The first layer, pictured first, was to be a rubber glove, very tight like a surgical glove. The second layer would be a mitten the same colour as the suit.
this is the mitten, egress/ingress instructions still visible on the left

 

[Gentleman’s Astronautics]

the fold helmet
and way to attach the Portable Life support to suit, so Hero has both hand free.

On the selenites
the design is good keep it

righto, I'll see what I can do, the finished outcome will likely be the dark blue garment I posted earlier with your helmet pretty much, also should it have a life jacket?

 

[Michel Van]

it have a life jacket?

Is there any ocean on Moon or Mars ?
otherwise it make only sense for Launch and landing on Earth...

 

[Gentleman’s Astronautics]

Is there any ocean on Moon or Mars ?
otherwise it make only sense for Launch and landing on Earth...

well, thats the intention of the craft, just a simple LEO crew ferry, that can go to the moon at a pinch, with some orbital refuelling, and land on skis for a swift crew rotation of the lunar colony.

 

[Gentleman’s Astronautics]

Is there any ocean on Moon or Mars ?
otherwise it make only sense for Launch and landing on Earth...

also, how exactly would an orbital tanker work? The period books from the BIS and their members I have vaguely discuss it, but not the nitty gritty, any help?

 

[southwestforests]

but not the nitty gritty, any help?

While whether it can be scientifically documented as 'help' could be its own conversation, my thoughts are practical experience would soon show that those looping hoses which look so dynamic in static art are a cumbersome danger in zero-G as they drift and wobble from the forces both of the hose material itself and the pressure of fuel or oxidizer being pumped through them.

Have thought that since years ago coming across the following artwork.
What the crew is doing there is just plain dangerous.
Dynamic illustration yes, true.
Risky and unwise in real life as forces are applied and objects move, absolutely.

So, there therefore must be another way to do the task without introducing loose hose ends wiggling around near hull skins and viewports and space helmet faceplates.

(and there's a lot of potential waste of valuable fuel and oxidizer in that hose length below, too)
(how does one get all the liquid within that hose length back in to the facility tanks or onward in to the rocket's tanks?)

 

[Gentleman’s Astronautics]

While whether it can be scientifically documented as 'help' could be its own conversation, my thoughts are practical experience would soon show that those looping hoses which look so dynamic in static art are a cumbersome danger in zero-G as they drift and wobble from the forces both of the hose material itself and the pressure of fuel or oxidizer being pumped through them.

Have thought that since years ago coming across the following artwork.
What the crew is doing there is just plain dangerous.
Dynamic illustration yes, true.
Risky and unwise in real life as forces are applied and objects move, absolutely.

So, there therefore must be another way to do the task without introducing loose hose ends wiggling around near hull skins and viewports and space helmet faceplates.

View attachment 728757

I see, well I am trying to stick to the ideas laid down by the BIS, so how would you recommend I go about this, as the start of the game does require some orbital refuelling. How about we start with how such a tanker rocket would work?

 

[southwestforests]

ideas laid down by the BIS

I am not familiar with the details of BIS ideas other than a few illustration of ships and spacesuits, and hence do not know what to suggest that would fit the setting.

My own ideas are two:

Hard docking of the craft to be fuelled, with short fuel and oxidizer transfer probes and fittings being part of the docking mechanism.

or,

modular and transferable fuel and oxidizer containers,

both as in the following real world space refuelling concept art,

(which of course introduce their own sets of hazards and failure points, but, hey, you Will have hazards and failure points, the trick is to select them wisely)

fut-unk_v_c_o_EKC (ca. 1960-62, unnumbered NASA-MSFC photo, verso hand-annotated 2-205-1) by Mike Acs, on Flickr


fut-unk_v_c_o_EKC (ca. 1960-62, unnumbered NASA photo, verso hand-annotated 2-205-7) by Mike Acs, on Flickr

 

[Gentleman’s Astronautics]

I am not familiar with the details of BIS ideas other than a few illustration of ships and spacesuits, and hence do not know what to suggest that would fit the setting.

My own ideas are two:

Hard docking of the craft to be fuelled, with short fuel and oxidizer transfer probes and fittings being part of the docking mechanism.

or,

modular and transferable fuel and oxidizer containers,

both as in the following real world space refuelling concept art,

(which of course introduce their own sets of hazards and failure points, but, hey, you Will have hazards and failure points, the trick is to select them wisely)

fut-unk_v_c_o_EKC (ca. 1960-62, unnumbered NASA-MSFC photo, verso hand-annotated 2-205-1) by Mike Acs, on Flickr


fut-unk_v_c_o_EKC (ca. 1960-62, unnumbered NASA photo, verso hand-annotated 2-205-7) by Mike Acs, on Flickr

hang on, I just found my copy of AC Clarke's "the exploration of the moon", lets see what it has to say

"Once the tankers had been successfully placed in their orbit, the next step would be to fly up to one of the piloted rockets to "home" on them. When a rendezvous had been made with one of the tankers, the crew of the rocket plan would leave their ship and couple up the two vessels by means of a pipeline. Fuel would then be pumped across from the tanker into the manned rocket"

It also mentions that the process of using either gas-pressure or pumping would cause the two craft to drive away from each other, due to the pipeline straightening, so he suggests the practice of "lashing the them together before pumping began".

what do you make of this?

 

[Michel Van]

There several system to pump propellant into Spaceship
the question is what propellant ?

the Russian use gas pressure to transfer hyperbolic at room temperature

with cryogenic propellants this method not work well
you need pumps to transfer the propellants (spaceX tested that on Flight-3)
here you need rendezvous system also docking system for transfer the propellants, Pumps and little rocket engines.
those push the dock spacecraft forward were propellants sink down in tank to collect by Pump.

 

[southwestforests]

what do you make of this?

I make of that what I started post #265 with,

... my thoughts are practical experience would soon show that those looping hoses which look so dynamic in static art are a cumbersome danger in zero-G as they drift and wobble from the forces both of the hose material itself and the pressure of fuel or oxidizer being pumped through them.

The "lashing the them together before pumping began" falls within the things which I expect practical experience would soon lead to a better way to do.

Okay, you've got your craft lashed, you've got your fuel pumped.
Now you need to:
de-tension the hose
disconnect the hose
(while doing the above, what becomes of the tension on those lashings?)
recover and stow the hose
de-tension the probably several lashings
disconnect the probably several lashings
recover and stow the lashings

... all of which are presented as manual labor which eats up time, physical energy, and spacesuit consumables.
as well as adding usage wear to the spacesuits
(with each of those operations introducing multiple points where spacesuits could be damaged and personnel harmed or lost)

... all of which costs resources, which have to be transported to space, and ultimately money.
now, true, if you are already transporting fuel to the space-borne refueling facility those things above can be added
except that every bit of mass beyond the necessary load of refueling fuel itself requires some quantity albeit small of additional spacecraft structure/mass which then requires additional fuel to transport
and man-hours to manage once it arrives

... therefore, hard docking with automated processes would soon be developed.
true, the automation machinery requires servicing and maintenance
but you can arrange the hardware where a good portion of it can be serviced from pressurized compartments.

Additional ponderings:

My Dad was in the USN during the Cold War where fuel transfer between ships was very much a manual process with hoses and lashings.
Space is not the sea.
Spacecraft involved in coming together for a refueling will not each have independent motions induced by wave and wind.
Therefore refuelling in space will not look like refuelling at sea.

 

[Gentleman’s Astronautics]

There several system to pump propellant into Spaceship
the question is what propellant ?

the Russian use gas pressure to transfer hyperbolic at room temperature

with cryogenic propellants this method not work well
you need pumps to transfer the propellants (spaceX tested that on Flight-3)
here you need rendezvous system also docking system for transfer the propellants, Pumps and little rocket engines.
those push the dock spacecraft forward were propellants sink down in tank to collect by Pump.

which method would ye recommend for LOx and Ethanol? also, I do believe the tankers and by extension the gliders themselves have a rudimentary form of RCS, the ones along the bottom are for roll and the top ones for pitch and yaw, so these should prove adequate for the Ullage

 

[southwestforests]

Also, as I wait for lunch to cook, the following thoughts,

the sooner one automates the refuelling process, the sooner one slows down the count of airlock cycles it takes to get six to a dozen laborers out there and back in.
(going by the numbers in the several posted illustrations)
Every airlock cycle induces wear on both the mechanism and the structure & potentially wastes at least a little bit of atmosphere to space.

true, using the automated refuelling system by definition induces wear on it, but, do you want to eventually replace refuelling system components or stress-cycle fatigued airlock walls?

and using automation also reduces the number of humans necessary for the process. One would really only want to have to pay the minimally necessary mass and money required to house and sustain humans in space.

and the more refuelling laborers you have out there exerting themselves and getting sweaty in their spacesuits, the more water mass you are going to dirty then need to consume energy to clean and recycle, as they clean their sweaty selves and undergarments.

 

[Gentleman’s Astronautics]

The "lashing the them together before pumping began" falls within the things which I expect practical experience would soon lead to a better way to do.

I'm not sure, most of the schemes that I'm sticking to rely more on manoeuvring into close proximity to the object rather than docking to it, which applies for orbital construction as well as refuelling, so I'm not sure here

Okay, you've got your craft lashed, you've got your fuel pumped.
Now you need to:
de-tension the hose
disconnect the hose
(while doing the above, what becomes of the tension on those lashings?)
recover and stow the hose
de-tension the probably several lashings
disconnect the probably several lashings
recover and stow the lashings

...that seems like a reasonable checklist of things for the player to do.

therefore, hard docking with automated processes would soon be developed.
true, the automation machinery requires servicing and maintenance
but you can arrange the hardware where a good portion of it can be serviced from pressurized compartments.

I honestly doubt if such systems would be developed, as for example the BIS space station can't really dock with anything, it just has an airlock for the astronauts. Considering that Ross and Smith's likely inspiration for such a feat was Air-to-Air refuelling, I don't think they would even consider that such systems would even be developed, nor did any scientist of the period as I can find no record of them in either them or Von braun's schemes of the same time

all of which are presented as manual labor which eats up time, physical energy, and spacesuit consumables.
as well as adding usage wear to the spacesuits
(with each of those operations introducing multiple points where spacesuits could be damaged and personnel harmed or lost)

...hmm, well regular suit servicing could solve the wear and tear issue, especially with the BIC's launch cadences warranting such a procedure be regularly carried out. As for the physical energy and suit consumables, considering this is a world where lunar spacesuits can carry up to 12 hours of oxygen, plus a little more reclaimed from CO2 and moisture, I'd say that the 7 hours in the earth orbit suits would probably suffice for this task, which would probably be carried out in about 2-3 hours, but due to the average gamer having the attention-span of a hyper-active amoeba, I'd probably have to get the segment done in about 15 minutes...

 

[Michel Van]

which method would ye recommend for LOx and Ethanol?

Lox Methan
is more powerful as Lox/Ethanol or Lox/kerosine.
can be stored up to 115 days in space with good Isolation.
and can be produce on Mars or C-type asteroids
Lox can manufacture on Moon

 

[Gentleman’s Astronautics]

Lox Methan
is more powerful as Lox/Ethanol or Lox/kerosine.
can be stored up to 115 days in space with good Isolation.
and can be produce on Mars or C-type asteroids
Lox can manufacture on Moon

well, this is the 40s and 50s, so really the only two kinds of fuel would be Ethalox or Hypergols, so not a lot of options

 

[southwestforests]

but due to the average gamer

...that seems like a reasonable checklist of things for the player to do.

Ah, I'd forgotten there was a game involved in this.



And speaking of games, "Thanks" to the effects of having acquired ME/CFS in early 2000s my ability to maintain focus on board games or miniatures games or role playing games is pretty much gone.
In earlier times much enjoyed Starfire; Star Fleet Battles; Full Thrust; ICE's Silent Death; and a number of others which have since been given away or sold.
Do still possess Starfire, and fun little retro sci-fi miniatures game pair from here in the 2000s titled Retro Raygun and War Rocket.

 

[Gentleman’s Astronautics]

Ah, I'd forgotten there was a game involved in this.



And speaking of games, "Thanks" to the effects of having acquired ME/CFS in early 2000s my ability to maintain focus on board games or miniatures games or role playing games is pretty much gone.
In earlier times much enjoyed Starfire; Star Fleet Battles; Full Thrust; ICE's Silent Death; and a number of others which have since been given away or sold.
Do still possess Starfire, and fun little retro sci-fi miniatures game pair from here in the 2000s titled Retro Raygun and War Rocket.

Oh, this is for a video game, not board game, lol

 

[southwestforests]

Oh, this is for a video game, not board game, lol

Guess that's a result of having been a child and young adult in the 60's, 70's, early 80's, and of my natural inclination to want physical objects, to this day, even with having and using Trainz railroad simulator, video games usually simply do not come to mind, only board, miniature, and RPGs come to mind when games are considered.

Alright, enough digression about that/me, on with the topic!

 

[Gentleman’s Astronautics]

Guess that's a result of having been a child and young adult in the 60's, 70's, early 80's, and of my natural inclination to want physical objects, to this day, even with having and using Trainz railroad simulator, video games usually simply do not come to mind, only board, miniature, and RPGs come to mind when games are considered.

Alright, enough digression about that/me, on with the topic!

True lol, so, what think to the above arguments I posted?

 

[southwestforests]

so, what think to the above arguments I posted?

Things both direct and indirect come to mind.

A direct one being that, as noted, doing the manual refuelling steps/process would give player interaction with the game, and perhaps with other players too. With room for both player roles and NPC roles.

Indirect there comes to mind that Trainz railroad simulator/game. It has player involvement at different levels all the way from personally operating locomotives, to scheduling/dispatching/routing traffic, to planning economies. I like how a good percentage of the various locomotives offer choice of actually driving the train with the cab controls, or, operating it more simply with a model train set style controller.
As a third option there is a place to set up a string of control commands for the simulator/game AI to follow in driving, routing, loading and unloading a train.

I do not know how well tabletop RPG processes translate to computer games nor do I know what computer game players want from a game.
But, and yes, of course to a point which it is possible to exceed, it is the doing of actions which is interesting.
Within that doing,
sometimes you want to go collect the fuel and go snare the game for supper, and sometimes you want to just note that supper happened and get on with the plot.