Lockheed Martin F-22A Raptor

[GTX]

Grey is the new black...

 

[sferrin]

Well that's also I suppose part of the question, although the 15 carries them on rails likesidewinders. The 22 has the 9x on rails. I amnot a military pilot but are there not limitations when not launching off rails like a bottle rocket?

The F-22 does not launch AIM-120s off rails. The F-15 does it both ways (rails and ejectors) depending on where it's mounted.

 

[sferrin]

Well that's also I suppose part of the question, although the 15 carries them on rails likesidewinders. The 22 has the 9x on rails. I amnot a military pilot but are there not limitations when not launching off rails like a bottle rocket?

The F-22 does not launch AIM-120s off rails. The F-15 does it both ways (rails and ejectors) depending on where it's mounted.

View attachment 637453

The 22 doesn't carry any missiles externally like the 15? Ever? Like when its carrying drop tanks? I know the 15 uses a mix of options for amraam. I am just asking if the amraam is a "dogfight" missile when not fired from rail. If its not then the 35 doesn't have a dogfight missile except externally carried. I don't type out everything on a tablet because it constantly screws up words. Recall 35 phot firing 9x while in a roll? That's a dogfight missile.

Forgot about F-22s carrying AIM-120s externally. Yes, they're rail launched in that condition. No, rail launch doesn't magically turn the AIM-120 into a dogfight missile. It has the same functionality whether it's rail launched or ejected.

 

[Dreamfighter]

Well that's also I suppose part of the question, although the 15 carries them on rails likesidewinders. The 22 has the 9x on rails. I amnot a military pilot but are there not limitations when not launching off rails like a bottle rocket?

The F-22 does not launch AIM-120s off rails. The F-15 does it both ways (rails and ejectors) depending on where it's mounted.

View attachment 637453

The 22 doesn't carry any missiles externally like the 15? Ever? Like when its carrying drop tanks? I know the 15 uses a mix of options for amraam. I am just asking if the amraam is a "dogfight" missile when not fired from rail. If its not then the 35 doesn't have a dogfight missile except externally carried. I don't type out everything on a tablet because it constantly screws up words. Recall 35 phot firing 9x while in a roll? That's a dogfight missile.

Forgot about F-22s carrying AIM-120s externally. Yes, they're rail launched in that condition. No, rail launch doesn't magically turn the AIM-120 into a dogfight missile. It has the same functionality whether it's rail launched or ejected.

F-22A can carry AIM-120s externally, but it haven´t seen it yet except for testing.
When you´ve pics of the contrary, please share them.

 

[BDF]

Check Out This Incredibly Rare Image Of An F-22 Pilot Wearing A Helmet Mounted Display

While initiatives and tests came and went, the F-22 still doesn't have a helmet-mounted display a decade and a half after being declared operational.

www.thedrive.com

Cool image of the Scorpion HMD testing. Starting to wonder if the tight canopy constraints on the F-22 are the real limiting factor in the lack of a HMD.

 

[rooster]

Well that's also I suppose part of the question, although the 15 carries them on rails likesidewinders. The 22 has the 9x on rails. I amnot a military pilot but are there not limitations when not launching off rails like a bottle rocket?

The F-22 does not launch AIM-120s off rails. The F-15 does it both ways (rails and ejectors) depending on where it's mounted.

View attachment 637453

The 22 doesn't carry any missiles externally like the 15? Ever? Like when its carrying drop tanks? I know the 15 uses a mix of options for amraam. I am just asking if the amraam is a "dogfight" missile when not fired from rail. If its not then the 35 doesn't have a dogfight missile except externally carried. I don't type out everything on a tablet because it constantly screws up words. Recall 35 phot firing 9x while in a roll? That's a dogfight missile.

Forgot about F-22s carrying AIM-120s externally. Yes, they're rail launched in that condition. No, rail launch doesn't magically turn the AIM-120 into a dogfight missile. It has the same functionality whether it's rail launched or ejected.

F-22A can carry AIM-120s externally, but it haven´t seen it yet except for testing.
When you´ve pics of the contrary, please share them.

Wikipedia has a pic.

 

[Dreamfighter]

Well that's also I suppose part of the question, although the 15 carries them on rails likesidewinders. The 22 has the 9x on rails. I amnot a military pilot but are there not limitations when not launching off rails like a bottle rocket?

The F-22 does not launch AIM-120s off rails. The F-15 does it both ways (rails and ejectors) depending on where it's mounted.

View attachment 637453

The 22 doesn't carry any missiles externally like the 15? Ever? Like when its carrying drop tanks? I know the 15 uses a mix of options for amraam. I am just asking if the amraam is a "dogfight" missile when not fired from rail. If its not then the 35 doesn't have a dogfight missile except externally carried. I don't type out everything on a tablet because it constantly screws up words. Recall 35 phot firing 9x while in a roll? That's a dogfight missile.

Forgot about F-22s carrying AIM-120s externally. Yes, they're rail launched in that condition. No, rail launch doesn't magically turn the AIM-120 into a dogfight missile. It has the same functionality whether it's rail launched or ejected.

F-22A can carry AIM-120s externally, but it haven´t seen it yet except for testing.
When you´ve pics of the contrary, please share them.

Wikipedia has a pic.

I know that famous pic. It is one of the early aircraft testing an external loadout of 2 Amraams, it comes up on every site.
There are a few more pics around from that test, taken from different angles.
AFAIK, there exists also 1 pic (only?) of an F-22 testing an external load of 4 amraams. What I still haven´t seen during all these years , is an F-22 on a training sortie (not to speak of an operational mission) with external missiles and not during some carriage-testing.
I also know very well it is not very likely to happen on a real mission for reasons of stealth, but I´d like confirmation (by sight) that carrying external missiles (and preferably also firing them) on the F-22 actually progressed beyond some (minor/early) testing.

 

[Dreamfighter]

AFAIK, there exists also 1 pic (only?) of an F-22 testing an external load of 4 amraams.

I must correct myself: It is with no less then 8 external amraams, and it is a ...¨PS-job of the F-22 with the 2 external amraams

 

[dark sidius]

Surely good living for NGAD in the black https://www.airforcemag.com/the-goldfein-years/

 

[sferrin]

AFAIK, there exists also 1 pic (only?) of an F-22 testing an external load of 4 amraams.

I must correct myself: It is with no less then 8 external amraams, and it is a ...¨PS-job of the F-22 with the 2 external amraams

Do you honestly believe they wouldn't carry more if they needed to?

 

[Ogami musashi]

AFAIK, there exists also 1 pic (only?) of an F-22 testing an external load of 4 amraams.

I must correct myself: It is with no less then 8 external amraams, and it is a ...¨PS-job of the F-22 with the 2 external amraams

Would be hard to find the source now, but some F-22 project manager said the external amraam will never happen because of some aerodynamics/stress problems. Or to be more precise, I think it was the second (outter) hardpoint that led to those problems.

 

[dark sidius]

Don't you think that the F-22 thread is better to talk about that ? F-22 is not 6th generation fighter.

 

[Dreamfighter]

AFAIK, there exists also 1 pic (only?) of an F-22 testing an external load of 4 amraams.

I must correct myself: It is with no less then 8 external amraams, and it is a ...¨PS-job of the F-22 with the 2 external amraams

Do you honestly believe they wouldn't carry more if they needed to?

I´d like to see confirmation the F-22 can indeed carry (and fire) them externally if it needed to operationally, without any issues or problems interfering with that. Or without someone having to say "the wing-stations were actually never activated, but we will do that when we get the F-22EX".
It popped to my mind, that in the past 23 years (F-22 EMD first flight 1997), I´ve only seen power-points and "performance charts" that state in combat configuration it can carry up to 4 amraams externally (on the outer wing stations), and about 2 or 3 pics of an (EMD) F-22A indeed carrying 2 amraams externally during a test-flight.

 

[Dreamfighter]

Don't you think that the F-22 thread is better to talk about that ? F-22 is not 6th generation fighter.

I wouldn´t mind if the mod would see it as appropriate to move the posts about external weapons on the F-22 to the F-22´s dedicated thread.

 

[helmutkohl]

some interesting news, not about the F-22 itself but about a famed F-22 pilot and the harassment she gave

Maj. Gen. Dunlop created toxic environment in top secret program office, IG finds

Several witnesses told investigators they were shocked to see Maj. Gen. Dawn Dunlop grab a subordinate's hand.

www.airforcetimes.com

 

[marauder2048]

some interesting news, not about the F-22 itself but about a famed F-22 pilot and the harassment she gave

Maj. Gen. Dunlop created toxic environment in top secret program office, IG finds

Several witnesses told investigators they were shocked to see Maj. Gen. Dawn Dunlop grab a subordinate's hand.

www.airforcetimes.com

Sounds like a bunch of the snowflakes on her staff weren't man enough to stand up to her with arguments and analysis.

 

[flanker]

I cringe everytime someone uses "snowflake" in any other way than to describe the weather phenomenon. It is hard to win someone over with "arguments and analysis" when persons goal is seemingly to belittle and be rude. Not really open to constructive critique then. And it is pretty clear from the article that people stood up to her several times (despite the rank difference), but she just didnt care.

 

[kaiserd]

That article really appears to be wildly off topic and I’d suggest those wishing to discuss it go to different more suitable websites for doing so.

 

[marauder2048]

That article really appears to be wildly off topic and I’d suggest those wishing to discuss it go to different more suitable websites for doing so.

I'd suggest that those trying to moderate discussions should secure moderator privileges.

 

[rooster]

I worked for a "engineering manager" like her at a large Detroit OEM. She even once berated a man with cancer and 20 years in the Army to the point people thought he was going to cry. Its amazing what idiotitc incompetents you get in management from PC affirmative action policies. Sorry if this violates rules but its a subject near and dear to me as I surrounded by this crap in engineering and had to say something. You can't have that kind of leadership in the military especially if she's in charge of "black" projects. Garbage leaders = garbage product. Quality people exit the ship quickly and find elsewhere to work.

 

[TomS]

I worked for a "engineering manager" like her at a large Detroit OEM. She even once berated a man with cancer and 20 years in the Army to the point people thought he was going to cry. Its amazing what idiotitc incompetents you get in management from PC affirmative action policies. Sorry if this violates rules but its a subject near and dear to me as I surrounded by this crap in engineering and had to say something. You can't have that kind of leadership in the military especially if she's in charge of "black" projects. Garbage leaders = garbage product. Quality people exit the ship quickly and find elsewhere to work.

I've seen exactly the same sort of behavior from male managers who definitely didn't get their positions due to "PC affirmative action policies" as you put it. Garbage leaders rise to senior jobs because of bad management development cultures, regardless of gender or any other factors.

 

[AeroFranz]

I read the article. Why is it exactly that posts above claim "affirmative action" is what got her in that position? I read no such thing in there.
Either way, she was found to be a poor leader and removed from the position, seems to me like the system is working.

 

[icyplanetnhc]

To take the discussion back on topic.

USAF to launch ARES modernisation plan for F-22 fighter

The US Air Force (USAF) is to launch its latest modernisation drive for the Lockheed Martin F-22 combat aircraft, dubbed Advanced Raptor Enhancement and Sustainment...

www.janes.com

Hopefully this won't be a victim of potential budget cuts.

 

[FighterJock]

To take the discussion back on topic.

USAF to launch ARES modernisation plan for F-22 fighter

The US Air Force (USAF) is to launch its latest modernisation drive for the Lockheed Martin F-22 combat aircraft, dubbed Advanced Raptor Enhancement and Sustainment...

www.janes.com

Hopefully this won't be a victim of potential budget cuts.

Any ideas as too what sort of equipment will be up for modernising?

 

[rooster]

To take the discussion back on topic.

USAF to launch ARES modernisation plan for F-22 fighter

The US Air Force (USAF) is to launch its latest modernisation drive for the Lockheed Martin F-22 combat aircraft, dubbed Advanced Raptor Enhancement and Sustainment...

www.janes.com

Hopefully this won't be a victim of potential budget cuts.

Any ideas as too what sort of equipment will be up for modernising?

The best modernization plan I have read about is PCA. New airframe, engines, and electronics.

 

[Foo Fighter]

If they can do that they can build more with later F-35 equipment.

 

[FighterJock]

If they can do that they can build more with later F-35 equipment.

That is not a bad idea Foo Fighter, that would get rid of the early nineties computer to start with because I had heard years ago that the digital flight control computer on the F-22A was based on the Intel Pentium P-90 (which in turn was a failed P-100-by the way don't ask why it was a failed p-100).

 

[sferrin]

To take the discussion back on topic.

USAF to launch ARES modernisation plan for F-22 fighter

The US Air Force (USAF) is to launch its latest modernisation drive for the Lockheed Martin F-22 combat aircraft, dubbed Advanced Raptor Enhancement and Sustainment...

www.janes.com

Hopefully this won't be a victim of potential budget cuts.

Any ideas as too what sort of equipment will be up for modernising?

The best modernization plan I have read about is PCA. New airframe, engines, and electronics.

That's not an F-22 modernization program.

 

[BDF]

Any ideas as too what sort of equipment will be up for modernising?

I believe some of the big items are a CNI upgrade and CIP upgrades. One of the biggest is a sensor that will enable the Raptor to retain the "First Look, First Shot, First Kill" mantra. This sensor, I'm guessing is a IRST, has been allocated over a $1B in funding. MLU is coming up though I'm not sure if its a formal program and related to this new initiative, but I've read they're look at modernizing a lot of ancillary systems such as new pumps and actuators and other less sexy items. There's still talk about a helmet which it badly needs as well as replacing the MFDs with one giant screen ala F-35/F-15EX/F-18E Block III. Another item supposedly being looked at is LO upgrades. At lot of this info I came across over the past couple years and may not be current. Very hard to find much info on upgrades right now.

 

[Grey Havoc]

A lot of work needed to offset all that 1990s era cost cutting.

 

[haavarla]

So what happen to the Increment 1.3 and 1.4 upgrade on the F-22.
Have all been upgraded to latest standard?

 

[BDF]

So what happen to the Increment 1.3 and 1.4 upgrade on the F-22.
Have all been upgraded to latest standard?

I can't recall the older increments anymore. I believe all the combat coded fleet (~120 jets) is Block 30/35/40 and are all Increment 3.2B by now. I don't remember what increment the Block 20 (~40) jets are but I think they're Increment 2 at least.

 

[haavarla]

So what happen to the Increment 1.3 and 1.4 upgrade on the F-22.
Have all been upgraded to latest standard?

I can't recall the older increments anymore. I believe all the combat coded fleet (~120 jets) is Block 30/35/40 and are all Increment 3.2B by now. I don't remember what increment the Block 20 (~40) jets are but I think they're Increment 2 at least.

Yes, sorry i meant ofc the Increment 3.1 and 3.2

 

[lantinian]

Ok, so is this some sort of PR stunt or Israel is happy to pay the cost to restart F-22 production?

U.S. approves sale of Lockheed Martin F-22 Raptor fighters to Israel

After the acceptation to sell F-35 Lightning IIs to the United Arab Emirates, the U.S. has now given the green light for the sale of some 50 F-22 Raptors to Israel for roughly $10.4 billion, an unprecedeted decision, as this advanced fighter jet has never been sold to a foteign country.

www.airrecognition.com

 

[BDF]

No reputable outlet in the states is reporting this from what I've seen.

 

[TomcatViP]

There might be some confusions and airplane mixing.
See the Time Of Israel (ToI) and their Source below.

The 10.4B$ is also for the 50 F-35 in the ToI when their source mention a plane needed to carry a 14t bomb, a plane they named F-22...

Trump approves selling F-22 Raptor to Israel -- Saudi report | The Times of Israel

www.timesofisrael.com

Trump Approves F-22 Sale to Israel

US Defense Secretary Mark Esper arrived in Israel Thursday for a short visit and held a meeting with his Israeli counterpart, Benny Gantz, followed by a meeting with Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu. Esper informed the officials that President Donal

english.aawsat.com

Conjunctural but the 14t might be the MoP and the plane, the Bone!!!

 

[Flyaway]

There might be some confusions and airplane mixing.
See the Time Of Israel (ToI) and their Source below.

The 10.4B$ is also for the 50 F-35 in the ToI when their source mention a plane needed to carry a 14t bomb, a plane they named F-22...

Trump approves selling F-22 Raptor to Israel -- Saudi report | The Times of Israel

www.timesofisrael.com

Trump Approves F-22 Sale to Israel

US Defense Secretary Mark Esper arrived in Israel Thursday for a short visit and held a meeting with his Israeli counterpart, Benny Gantz, followed by a meeting with Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu. Esper informed the officials that President Donal

english.aawsat.com

Conjunctural but the 14t might be the MoP and the plane, the Bone!!!

How can you sell a plane that’s long out of production and the tooling has been scrapped.

 

[Flyaway]

This article preempted the F-22 story and debunked it.

https://www.forbes.com/sites/sebast...-why-thats-not-likely-to-fly/?sh=7e8ee88f374b

 

[flateric]

How can you sell a plane that’s long out of production and the tooling has been scrapped.

It was not scrapped. Otherwise all this sale history is absolute bs

 

[Foo Fighter]

Last I heard the tooling was still extant, when was it scrapped?