Lockheed Martin F-22 Raptor

[Training_Dummy]

Lots of opportunities to upgrade Raptor to make it less fragile and enhance readiness:

- fundamentally improve F119 reliability
- move away from APG-77 (APG-85 based array?)
- find an easier to maintain and more environmentally robust LO coating (mirror Raptor)
- figure out and fix what’s harming Raptor drivers (eg oxygen generation, cockpit contaminants, etc)

 

[Bruno Anthony]

Lots of opportunities to upgrade Raptor to make it less fragile and enhance readiness:

- fundamentally improve F119 reliability
- move away from APG-77 (APG-85 based array?)
- find an easier to maintain and more environmentally robust LO coating (mirror Raptor)
- figure out and fix what’s harming Raptor drivers (eg oxygen generation, cockpit contaminants, etc)

I thought they fixed the oxygen systems problems years ago?

 

[Training_Dummy]

I thought they fixed the oxygen systems problems years ago?

You’re right I don’t have anything specific except there are still rumblings about suspicions about the Raptor environmental system (encompassing many factors) despite changes made over the years. Perhaps this is like the fringe vaccine side effect stuff, maybe not.

 

[Bruno Anthony]

fundamentally improve F119 reliability

Info?

My not so expert opinion is that the big reliability problem is maintaining the LO coatings.

 

[quellish]

Info?

My not so expert opinion is that the big reliability problem is maintaining the LO coatings.

Most of the Raptors are flying with their LO in a degraded state. They are skipping most of the LO maint.
They are still having readiness and availability issues unrelated to LO.

 

[Bruno Anthony]

They are still having readiness and availability issues unrelated to LO.

What’s your info as to what the problems are?

 

[Training_Dummy]

Info?

My not so expert opinion is that the big reliability problem is maintaining the LO coatings.

That my understanding too but than sensors/avionics and powerplant are challenges, with P&W obviously implementing some pretty clever ways of squeezing more out of some pretty old engines in terms of sophisticated data collection and monitoring.

 

[F119Doctor]

F119 reliability and availability are not an issue with the F-22. Both are world class as they are. The data collection and analysis show the pilots have not been working the engine as hard as the specification (a first time for everything!!) allowing P&W to turn up the wick via FADEC software update for higher performance in certain parts of the flight envelope.

 

[quellish]

What’s your info as to what the problems are?

The same problems that the rest of the USAF is having, but magnified because it is a smaller pool of aircraft and resources.

 

[Josh_TN]

What’s your info as to what the problems are?

I do not have remotely his knowledge or contacts, but you visibly see F-22s shedding their outer coatings all the time. I believe that this is *not* considered being mission incapable for the purpose of those metrics, and that the B-2 fleet has a similar circumstance. That is: available rates are not great, and availability rates also do not account for external coating conditions, which realistically might make an aircraft combat incapable even if all its internal systems were functioning.

 

[EmoBirb]

Couldn't it be possible to apply the coating used on the F-35 to the F-22?

It seems to be rather sturdy, given it was also developed with naval and international use in mind. And given the quantities in which it has to be produced it may be cheaper?

Could be an option for an MLU when the fleet gets an in depth overhaul anyway.

 

[TomS]

I Hope F-22 Super is the MLU maybe even more extensive than before. Same for F-55 but why have money for that when you can't even get a budget too F/A-XX

Folks are making the bold assumption that anything the President said corresponds to reality.

 

[quellish]

Couldn't it be possible to apply the coating used on the F-35 to the F-22?

The F-22 and F-35 coating stacks are different because the aircraft are different. Applying some of the F-35 coatings to the F-22 does not solve these issues, the issues would remain (or be worse).

 

[Josh_TN]

Couldn't it be possible to apply the coating used on the F-35 to the F-22?

It seems to be rather sturdy, given it was also developed with naval and international use in mind. And given the quantities in which it has to be produced it may be cheaper?

Could be an option for an MLU when the fleet gets an in depth overhaul anyway.

No. Different principles and approaches that are unrelated. F-22 is kind of amazing, but also fantasticly dated tech.

 

[kqcke for you]

Folks are making the bold assumption that anything the President said corresponds to reality.

I said i hope and nothing more. Is it unlikely yes but then again that dude with his Guys are a crazy so

 

[Scott Kenny]

F119 reliability and availability are not an issue with the F-22. Both are world class as they are. The data collection and analysis show the pilots have not been working the engine as hard as the specification (a first time for everything!!) allowing P&W to turn up the wick via FADEC software update for higher performance in certain parts of the flight envelope.

How many times did they re-run those reports until someone believed that?!?

PW engineers needed to buy a lottery ticket after that!