• Hi Guest! Forum rules have been updated. All users please read here.

Kyushu J7W1 Shinden/J7W2 Shinden-kai

Stargazer2006

CLEARANCE: Above Top Secret
Staff member
Senior Member
Joined
Jun 25, 2009
Messages
13,243
Reaction score
73
Maybe it's just my fantasy, but I can't help thinking that a contra-rotating version of the Shiden with good engines would have been a formidable opponent to the Americans!!
 

blackkite

Don't laugh, don't cry, don't even curse, but.....
Joined
May 31, 2007
Messages
5,683
Reaction score
211
Hi! We can find some Shinden-kai models or drawings in Internet site.
This is one model. But it's not necessary to have two types of air intake.
Original Shinden have two types of air intake. One is for engine cooling. Another one is for supercharger.
But Shinden-kai needs only one type of air intake for jet engine.
http://www9.plala.or.jp/fukugiya/72-081-shinden-jet.htm
 

Attachments

borovik

CLEARANCE: Top Secret
Joined
May 5, 2007
Messages
781
Reaction score
17
An artistе impression (from the well-known firm))
/ very limited edition model series / :)
 

Attachments

Triton

Donald McKelvy
Senior Member
Joined
Aug 14, 2009
Messages
9,723
Reaction score
167
Website
deeptowild.blogspot.com
Speculative painting of Kyushu J7W2 Shinden-kai by Kow Yokoyama for Hasegawa model kit.

Source:
http://fighters.forumactif.com/t35896p15-shinden-1-48-fini
 

Attachments

blackkite

Don't laugh, don't cry, don't even curse, but.....
Joined
May 31, 2007
Messages
5,683
Reaction score
211
Hi! NE-130 engine. Sorry for low quality.
Diameter : 850mm, Length : 3850mm, Weight : 900kg, Manufacturer : Ishikawajima Shibaura turbine.
 

Attachments

blackkite

Don't laugh, don't cry, don't even curse, but.....
Joined
May 31, 2007
Messages
5,683
Reaction score
211
Thanks Justo. Super!! ;)
Japanese technology was rather low level at the day. ;D
 

blackkite

Don't laugh, don't cry, don't even curse, but.....
Joined
May 31, 2007
Messages
5,683
Reaction score
211
Thanks another opinion. Splendid drawing. :D
Engine : Ishikawa Ne-440??
 

blackkite

Don't laugh, don't cry, don't even curse, but.....
Joined
May 31, 2007
Messages
5,683
Reaction score
211
Officially there are no jet powered Shinden drawing. Name of Shinden-kai is not official,too.
Kyushu Hikoki did not start jet powered Shinden design until the end of the war.
Engineer of Kyushu hikoki(Kunitake Kiyohara, section submanager of No.1 design section of Kyushu Hikoki) said so.
But it's true that the IJN ordered Kyushu Hikoki to design Shinden considering future turbo jet engine installation.
Engine was Ne-130, thrust 900kg, estimated jet powered Shinden's maximum speed with Ne-130 engine was 420kt(780km/h).
The IJN planned that jet powered Shinden use JATO when take off.
Shinden had laminar flow wing.(Maximum thickness located 45% wing chord.)
Sourec : Aireview magazine, extra number, Unknown military aircraft development(Vol.1/2) page 51, March 1999, ISBN4-87357-049-2 C9453
 

blackkite

Don't laugh, don't cry, don't even curse, but.....
Joined
May 31, 2007
Messages
5,683
Reaction score
211
Shinden's engine had 18 exhaust nozzles.
4 nozzles exhaust gas were used for thrust.(Located upper part of the engine.)
8 nozzles exhaust gas were used for ejector(jet pump) which take oil cooler cooling air. (Located middle part of the engine.)
6 nozzles exhaust gas were used for ejector which exhaust engine room hot air.(Located bottom part of the engine.)
Of course engine was cooled by mainly forced cooling air by forced cooling fan which located behind the engine.
You can see oil cooler air intake in the 4th picture.(After end of the fuselage)
 

Attachments

windswords

CLEARANCE: Secret
Joined
May 20, 2009
Messages
295
Reaction score
8
blackkite said:
We hope Shinden restoration in the U.S.Washington D.C. B)
I have always wanted to see two aircraft restored and put on display at the Smithsonian: The Horten Ho-229 and the J7W1. If they were done I would take a vacation to Washington DC just to see those two planes.
 

blackkite

Don't laugh, don't cry, don't even curse, but.....
Joined
May 31, 2007
Messages
5,683
Reaction score
211
windswords said:
blackkite said:
We hope Shinden restoration in the U.S.Washington D.C. B)
I have always wanted to see two aircraft restored and put on display at the Smithsonian: The Horten Ho-229 and the J7W1. If they were done I would take a vacation to Washington DC just to see those two planes.
Thanks windswords! Me,too. ;)
I used to visit Fort Lauderdale and Miami. Florida was worm in winter.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=C2ifDWxkVGs
 

Basil

CLEARANCE: Confidential
Joined
Aug 10, 2009
Messages
189
Reaction score
5
Blackkite, thanks for the detailed pictures of the exhaust / ejector cooling system of the Shinden. It's hard to get these informations as a non japanese speaking person.
 

blackkite

Don't laugh, don't cry, don't even curse, but.....
Joined
May 31, 2007
Messages
5,683
Reaction score
211
Basil said:
Blackkite, thanks for the detailed pictures of the exhaust / ejector cooling system of the Shinden. It's hard to get these informations as a non japanese speaking person.
Hi! I think it's my responsibility. Sorry not enough.
I realize Shinden shape demerit one more.
It's hard to cool engine and oil when ground engine test, because engine and oil cooler are not exposed high speed propeller after stream.
Perhaps it's one of the reason why Shinden had a forced cooling fan and ejector type oil coolers.

And R/C model.
http://homepage2.nifty.com/96fighter/E_scr_J7W1.htm
 

blackkite

Don't laugh, don't cry, don't even curse, but.....
Joined
May 31, 2007
Messages
5,683
Reaction score
211
Hi!
Senden arrangement.

Engine Oil cooler Engine mounting Fuselage frame Forced cooling fan Extended propeller shaft Fuselage longitudinal frame 30mm cannon 30mm cannon cartridge 20mm cannon 20mm cannon cartridge Fuel tank Front gear wireless apparatusPropeller breakaway mechanism Propeller

Senden was cancelled in October 1944 due to MK9D engine under power, failure of Vulkan coupling development or failure of Vulkan coupling application to MK9D engine and extended propeller shaft trouble.
Senden’s engine cooling problem was clearly solved by the test (9 months) using MK9D engine and full scale fuselage model. Horizontal tail stabilizer vibration was clearly solved by the wind tunnel test and the design change.
(Source : Senden’s chief designer Eitaro Sato’s report)
I think Shinden received some feedback from Senden’s failure.
For example, MK9D engine modification(the first stage supercharger design including Vulkan coupling, oil cooler concept and extended propellre shaft design). Don't you think so?
Shinden’s first stage supercharger shape is different from Senden’s one.
Shinden’s first stage supercharger had twin impeller, but from
Senden’s arrangement drawing, I feel Senden’s first stage supercharger had a single impeller.
 

Attachments

Nick Sumner

Yabba dabba DOOOOOM!
Senior Member
Joined
May 31, 2006
Messages
428
Reaction score
18
This is great information Blackite - thank you!

May I just ask - the 'Vulkan Coupling', this was Daimler Benz technology adapted by Mitsubishi for their engines? If Mitsubishi couldn't get the technology to work could they have used a more conventional approach to two speed supercharger control?
 

blackkite

Don't laugh, don't cry, don't even curse, but.....
Joined
May 31, 2007
Messages
5,683
Reaction score
211
Nick Sumner said:
This is great information Blackite - thank you!

May I just ask - the 'Vulkan Coupling', this was Daimler Benz technology adapted by Mitsubishi for their engines?
Hi Nick!
I think that's right. Perhaps Mitsubishi got Vulkan coupling technology from Kawasaki. Kawasaki already applied this technology to Hien's Ha-40 engine. The merit of using Vulkan coupling is high climb rate. It was very important characteristic for the interceptor.
If only Vulkan coupling was adjusted properly, HA-40 engine worked well at the day.
 

blackkite

Don't laugh, don't cry, don't even curse, but.....
Joined
May 31, 2007
Messages
5,683
Reaction score
211
Wow thanks Justo!
The German is one of the our best teacher in the past, now and in the future.
The engine was liquid cooling double array radial engine BMW803. :eek: B)
The radiator was located behind the big forced cooling fan.
 

Attachments

hesham

CLEARANCE: Above Top Secret
Joined
May 26, 2006
Messages
23,760
Reaction score
805
Justo Miranda said:
Similar comparative german project here

What was the last two aircraft?, Focke Wulf projects or not .
 

chuck4

CLEARANCE: Top Secret
Joined
Jan 17, 2011
Messages
803
Reaction score
0
Is there any provision for the pilot to avoid the props during bailout?
 

Justo Miranda

CLEARANCE: Top Secret
Joined
Dec 2, 2007
Messages
3,438
Reaction score
72
Focke Wulf Jäger projekt mit BMW 803 , and Heinkel "Kartusche" ejector seat.
 

windswords

CLEARANCE: Secret
Joined
May 20, 2009
Messages
295
Reaction score
8
chuck4 said:
Is there any provision for the pilot to avoid the props during bailout?
If you look at one of the the diagrams posted by Blackkite it refers to number 15 as "Propeller breakaway mechanism". Maybe it's some kind of explosive charge to blow off the prop so the pilot can bail out.
 

blackkite

Don't laugh, don't cry, don't even curse, but.....
Joined
May 31, 2007
Messages
5,683
Reaction score
211
Shinden’s main wing was a laminar flow wing, maximum thickness located 45% wing chord.
Wing root and wing tip angle of attack was 0 degree while wing middle position's angle of attack was 3 degee.
Front wing area was 10% of main wing area.
Front wing span and wing chord were 1/3 of main wing.
Front wing aerodynamic effect to the main wing was small.
Front wing had leading edge slat and double flap (slotted flap + plain flap).
Double flap also had the function of elevator.
Angle of attack of front wing was 1 degree.
 

Attachments

Top