Inswing / 'medium-range Swingfire' (Not Beeswing!)

[JFC Fuller]

I have come across a couple of references to an infantry version of Swingfire that seems to have not been Beeswing (regular Swingfire mounted in a rack on a Land rover or trailer). Kenneth Macksey makes reference to it in 'The Tanks; The History of the Royal Tank Regiment, 1945-1975' in which he describes a

'man-portable'

version called Inswing which was abandoned on the

'perfectly valid grounds that Inswing would be too heavy and bulky in its man-portable form.'

John Forbat also mentions such a missile in 'The Secret World of Vickers Guided Weapons' stating that

In May, the MOA was already looking at an improved Vigilant to compensate for the cancellation of the 'medium-range Swingfire'

Forbat also qoutes an Army Council paper stating

'Vigilants potential successor Swingfire is not expected to be in service before 1966 and the infantry version may be later than...'

It thus seems fairly obvious that there was originally to be have been a man-portable version of Swingfire but that this was cancelled sometime in 1961/2. However it is unclear what adaptations the design would have had to fulfill the man portable role.

Whilst I am on the topic of anti-tank missiles I stumbled across this document today which includes some interesting details about Orange William, its launcher and Malkara and its proposed launcher. Note the Centurion based launch vehicle.

http://www.warwheels.net/images/FV1620HornetArticleElliott.pdf

 

[alertken]

1958/59 U/Sec for War was Churchill's son-in-law Capt. J.Amery who ill-advisedly boasted that O W would “sweep the tank from the battlefield”.

The Hornet piece links Fairey (GW) with Malkara...but Short derived Sea/Hell/Tigercat from that, so I assumed them, not (Fairey, to be) BAC(AT), to have been Sister Firm?

 

[JFC Fuller]

Ken,

Although Fairey's own Orange William anti-tank weapon is no longer an active project, Fairey Engineering Ltd is the Australian Governments delegated authority in the UK for the Malkara anti-tank weapon, some 400 of which are currently on order for the British Army. This subsidiary company of the Fairey Group will assist in introducing the weapon into service and will be responsible for the design and manufacture of modifications and of the field test and check-out gear. Fairey also have a sales agency for all countries except the USA.

http://www.flightglobal.com/pdfarchive/view/1960/1960%20-%201638.html

I have no idea how Shorts got Malkara access.

 

[CJGibson]

I need to dig out my notes, but from memory...

The date I have for INSWING is 1964.

Swingfire emerged from experience with Fairey Project 6 (Orange William), with a Anglo-German test vehicle called AATW, which eventually became Fairey Project 12 to examine low-speed launch / vectored-thrust techniques. BAC took this over to produce Swingfire. A parallel Australian project, Project E Mk.2, a bit of a Malkara follow-on, was examined but the BAC missile was preferred.

A man-portable Swingfire was covered by GSOR.1010, while "normal" Swingfire was covered by GSOR.1013, with GSR.3120 covering the Swingfire simulator. GSR.3400 was for a Swingfire successor. Jemma was a test vehicle used to test top-attack methods and was based on a Swingfire motor and guidnace systems. NP.169 was an attempt to provide SACLOS for Swingfire, but cancelled in 1967.

Beeswing related only to Swingfire mounted on B-class vehicles, such as the 1-tonne Land-Rover, with 6 rounds on three pairs of launchers.
Infantry Swingfire might not be a man-portable variant, could be the four-round launcher on a normal Land-Rover.
Golfswing on the other hand, was dragged around on what was more or less a golf trolley. Used by Egypt I believe.
Swingfire Pallet was a three or four round portable launcher that could be carried by three (or two very large) infantrymen or mounted on a Land-Rover.

An early 60s man-portable ATGW may not have been based on Swingfire as there was system called "Tarbrush" on the go at the same time.

MM Swingfire was Micro-Miniturised Swingfire with new internals.

Chris

 

[starviking]

I have no idea how Shorts got Malkara access.

The government might have passed it over to them - a bit like Red Dean got passed on to Vickers when Folland showed they were not up to the task.

 

[CJGibson]

I'm not sure that Shorts did get it from Fairey, I suspect the RAE.

Shorts' experience of GPV led them into GW development and built the Green Light Test Vehicle from bits and pieces beginning in 1956. Could be good old-fashioned convergent evolution at work or more likely those bits and pieces came from OW via the RAE. They were looking at a CLOS SAGW for ships.

Oddly enough OW was originally intended as a dual role anti-tank / anti-aircraft weapon. That didn't last.

Chris

 

[JFC Fuller]

I understood that Tarbrush was TV guided, I have trouble imagining how such a system could be made easily man portable in the 1960s, perhaps I am not thinking outside the box! I have never found out who the contractors were working on Tarbrush or any of the details behind it.

I have stumbled on this link in relation to GOSR.1010 though: http://www.dtic.mil/cgi-bin/GetTRDoc?Location=U2&doc=GetTRDoc.pdf&AD=AD0348021

Its from 1963 and talks about using the Saladin 76mm to meet the requirement which is curious to say the least.

 

[CJGibson]

I also wondered about the TV-guidance system's portability on Tarbrush. It was a very odd beast, out-of the box thinking indeed as it relied on balloons, helicopters or UAVs to provide a "god's-eye view" of the battlefield. All very fine until a spot of smoke obscured things or somebody took a pot-shot at the overhead platform. Nothing ventured...perhaps it was simpler than other methods under consideration for firing from cover or off-axis (the problem that Swingfire solved).

Chris

 

[CJGibson]

There seems to have been a re-issue of the Swingfire-related ORs around 1964.
GSR.3070 covered a medium-range Swingfire for the infantry. It was cancelled on 15/165 due to failure to meet weight specification.
GSR.3013 is described as the req for "long-range Swingfire"
GSR.3200 was was Swingfire on the Ferret

Chris

 

[fv1620]

Infantry Swingfire might not be a man-portable variant, could be the four-round launcher on a normal Land-Rover.

I've always assumed this is Infantry Swingfire & all rather different to Beeswing.

Clive

 

[Abraham Gubler]

The date I have for INSWING is 1964.

This and some of the discussion in this thread may be related to the mention in the Westminster Hansard list of cancelled projects of one labelled “Infantry medium-range anti-tank missile” cancelled in 1964 at the cost to date of £230,000.

A parallel Australian project, Project E Mk.2, a bit of a Malkara follow-on, was examined but the BAC missile was preferred.

I’m working up a major post on “Project E” and it was actually the precursor to Malkara for an infantry sized anti-tank missile. It was developed up until 1955 but was effectively cancelled because at that time the (UK) War Office was convinced that only a 60 lbs warhead could defeat a tank so Malkara was born. Since the Australian Army wasn’t interested (or able to afford) development of an ATGM Project E was cancelled.

Mark 2 Project E was I think given a more colourful name which I can’t recall but it was Aboriginal for snake or something and sounded like “Moorobie”. Since it was 10 years later and everyone else was building infantry ATGMs with much less than 60 lbs warheads the world was flooded with competition. The Australian Army chose the supercheap French ENTAC and the British had Vigilant.

 

[RavenOne]

I need to dig out my notes, but from memory...

The date I have for INSWING is 1964.

Swingfire emerged from experience with Fairey Project 6 (Orange William), with a Anglo-German test vehicle called AATW, which eventually became Fairey Project 12 to examine low-speed launch / vectored-thrust techniques. BAC took this over to produce Swingfire. A parallel Australian project, Project E Mk.2, a bit of a Malkara follow-on, was examined but the BAC missile was preferred.

A man-portable Swingfire was covered by GSOR.1010, while "normal" Swingfire was covered by GSOR.1013, with GSR.3120 covering the Swingfire simulator. GSR.3400 was for a Swingfire successor. Jemma was a test vehicle used to test top-attack methods and was based on a Swingfire motor and guidnace systems. NP.169 was an attempt to provide SACLOS for Swingfire, but cancelled in 1967.

Beeswing related only to Swingfire mounted on B-class vehicles, such as the 1-tonne Land-Rover, with 6 rounds on three pairs of launchers.
Infantry Swingfire might not be a man-portable variant, could be the four-round launcher on a normal Land-Rover.
Golfswing on the other hand, was dragged around on what was more or less a golf trolley. Used by Egypt I believe.
Swingfire Pallet was a three or four round portable launcher that could be carried by three (or two very large) infantrymen or mounted on a Land-Rover.

An early 60s man-portable ATGW may not have been based on Swingfire as there was system called "Tarbrush" on the go at the same time.

MM Swingfire was Micro-Miniturised Swingfire with new internals.

Chris

is that what’s mounted on this Scout at Farnborough Airshow in 60s

cheers

 

[CJGibson]

Could be Hawkswing which was tested on a Scout and was more of a dibber than a useful weapon. See the General Staff and the Helicopter for that story.