- Joined
- 1 February 2011
- Messages
- 2,615
- Reaction score
- 2,560
I've posted this on another forum but it is better to post many forums to see if anybody know anything about this,
I've got hold an extract from a naval forum about possible modernisation plans for the Kawachi class Battleship IJN Settsu which was stripped from her armament after the Washington Naval Treaty and used as a radio controlled training and test ship soon after.
These proposals apparently considered from 1938 until 1941 when WW2 broke out.
The full scale modernisations called for a maximum speed of 50km/h (27knots)
1. Either cut the two central twin 30cm/50 Type 41 cannons to 45 calibre ones or replace them with the slightly older 30cm/45 Type 41 (Type 37) cannons, add a new rangefinder on the main mast and two 25mm triple AA guns between the funnels.
2. Replace the cannons in the fore wing turrets with 30cm/50 Type 41 ones, remove the aft wing turrets and substitute them with two catapults, add a crane behind the second funnel and a few light AA guns, with some minor refitting to the superstructures. This is actually possible as to my source Japan only produced 12 pieces of the 50 calibre cannons out of which 8 were used on the IJN Kawachi and Settsu, but
4 were lost when Kawachi exploded shortly after WW1, meaning only 4 extra barrels were available.
3. Replace all the wing turret cannons with 30cm/50 calibre ones, trunk the funnels together, add eight triple 25mm guns amidships and fit a catapult on the roof of the aft centreline turret with a crane on the stern like on the Yamatos or the American battleships. This proposal is quite problematic as I've written earlier Japan did not have enough 30cm/50 calibre cannons. It is doubtful Japan would produce new pieces of this old design, which leaves another source: Great Britain, of course if they willing to export/sell the 12inch Mark XI and XII barrels.
4. A more extensive version of the one above: new 31cm Type 0 cannons in all turrets (The gun proposed for one of the B-65 versions), completely rebuilt superstructures similarly to all other Japanese battleships: pagoda mast, single funnel with six twin 12,7cm Type 89 DP-AA guns around it, three on each side, several triple 25mm Type 96 light AA guns and again a catapult on top of turret no.6 with a crane on the stern.
5. Same as above, but removing all four wing turrets, fit triple 155mm Type 3 (Type 90) turrets in their places and two catapults amidships between the two wing turrets.
6. Same as above, but with only the two catapults amidships between the two side turrets. Cranes would be near the funnel like on Bismarck or Scharnhorst, and the twin 12,7cm Type 89 DP-AA guns would be reduced to four and repositioned near to the pagoda mast. 7. BBAA conversion without floatplanes, catapults and cranes but with five or even six twin 12,7cm Type 89 DP-AA guns on each side, and of course lots of 25mm Type 96 light AAs.
8. Removal of the three aft turrets and fit several twin 12,7cm Type 89 DP-AA guns in their place, keep the fore three turrets and fit them with the new 31cm Type 0 cannons, no floatplanes. 9. Removeval all turrets except the forward centreline one, fit four triple 155mm Type 3 (Type 90) turrets where the wing ones used to be, and eight twin 12,7cm Type 89 DP-AA guns, six around the funnel and two superfiring aft;
10. Remove all the main turrets, fit three triple 155mm Type 3 (Type 90) turrets in fore centreline and aft wing positions and 11 twin 12,7cm Type 89 DP-AA guns (one superfiring over the fore centreline 155mm triple turret, four on the sides in the place of the fore wing turrets, four more around the funnel and two superfiring in place of the aft centreline turret. 11. Complete AA conversion with 16 twin 12,7cm Type 89 DP-AA guns, two superfiring forward, four on each side, four around the funnel and two superfiring aft.
Also note:
Numbers 8 and 10 are completely fictional, only based on some ideas of a few IJN designers that were not followed by actual projects...
Number 9,10 and 11 are debatable as the main turrets were already removed when these projects seems to be proposed!
So the question is does anybody else heard about these kind of proposals? Anybody heard about these or read about them?
I've got hold an extract from a naval forum about possible modernisation plans for the Kawachi class Battleship IJN Settsu which was stripped from her armament after the Washington Naval Treaty and used as a radio controlled training and test ship soon after.
These proposals apparently considered from 1938 until 1941 when WW2 broke out.
The full scale modernisations called for a maximum speed of 50km/h (27knots)
1. Either cut the two central twin 30cm/50 Type 41 cannons to 45 calibre ones or replace them with the slightly older 30cm/45 Type 41 (Type 37) cannons, add a new rangefinder on the main mast and two 25mm triple AA guns between the funnels.
2. Replace the cannons in the fore wing turrets with 30cm/50 Type 41 ones, remove the aft wing turrets and substitute them with two catapults, add a crane behind the second funnel and a few light AA guns, with some minor refitting to the superstructures. This is actually possible as to my source Japan only produced 12 pieces of the 50 calibre cannons out of which 8 were used on the IJN Kawachi and Settsu, but
4 were lost when Kawachi exploded shortly after WW1, meaning only 4 extra barrels were available.
3. Replace all the wing turret cannons with 30cm/50 calibre ones, trunk the funnels together, add eight triple 25mm guns amidships and fit a catapult on the roof of the aft centreline turret with a crane on the stern like on the Yamatos or the American battleships. This proposal is quite problematic as I've written earlier Japan did not have enough 30cm/50 calibre cannons. It is doubtful Japan would produce new pieces of this old design, which leaves another source: Great Britain, of course if they willing to export/sell the 12inch Mark XI and XII barrels.
4. A more extensive version of the one above: new 31cm Type 0 cannons in all turrets (The gun proposed for one of the B-65 versions), completely rebuilt superstructures similarly to all other Japanese battleships: pagoda mast, single funnel with six twin 12,7cm Type 89 DP-AA guns around it, three on each side, several triple 25mm Type 96 light AA guns and again a catapult on top of turret no.6 with a crane on the stern.
5. Same as above, but removing all four wing turrets, fit triple 155mm Type 3 (Type 90) turrets in their places and two catapults amidships between the two wing turrets.
6. Same as above, but with only the two catapults amidships between the two side turrets. Cranes would be near the funnel like on Bismarck or Scharnhorst, and the twin 12,7cm Type 89 DP-AA guns would be reduced to four and repositioned near to the pagoda mast. 7. BBAA conversion without floatplanes, catapults and cranes but with five or even six twin 12,7cm Type 89 DP-AA guns on each side, and of course lots of 25mm Type 96 light AAs.
8. Removal of the three aft turrets and fit several twin 12,7cm Type 89 DP-AA guns in their place, keep the fore three turrets and fit them with the new 31cm Type 0 cannons, no floatplanes. 9. Removeval all turrets except the forward centreline one, fit four triple 155mm Type 3 (Type 90) turrets where the wing ones used to be, and eight twin 12,7cm Type 89 DP-AA guns, six around the funnel and two superfiring aft;
10. Remove all the main turrets, fit three triple 155mm Type 3 (Type 90) turrets in fore centreline and aft wing positions and 11 twin 12,7cm Type 89 DP-AA guns (one superfiring over the fore centreline 155mm triple turret, four on the sides in the place of the fore wing turrets, four more around the funnel and two superfiring in place of the aft centreline turret. 11. Complete AA conversion with 16 twin 12,7cm Type 89 DP-AA guns, two superfiring forward, four on each side, four around the funnel and two superfiring aft.
Also note:
Numbers 8 and 10 are completely fictional, only based on some ideas of a few IJN designers that were not followed by actual projects...
Number 9,10 and 11 are debatable as the main turrets were already removed when these projects seems to be proposed!
So the question is does anybody else heard about these kind of proposals? Anybody heard about these or read about them?
