HAL Tejas

TMA1

ACCESS: Confidential
Joined
Feb 6, 2021
Messages
108
Reaction score
161
as i said earlier it is wise for smaller nations to diversify their weapons systems. better would be building your own kit. I think India is wise in developing their own weapons. their major issue for Tejas is lack of indigenous engine and sensors. buying from French and Russian in the mean time as stop gap is smart.
 

GTX

All hail the God of Frustration!!!
Staff member
Senior Member
Joined
Apr 15, 2006
Messages
3,452
Reaction score
1,538
Website
beyondthesprues.com
as i said earlier it is wise for smaller nations to diversify their weapons systems. better would be building your own kit. I think India is wise in developing their own weapons. their major issue for Tejas is lack of indigenous engine and sensors. buying from French and Russian in the mean time as stop gap is smart.
1612803847551.jpeg

For a small nation with presumably a small fleet (e.g. Malaysia - total 39 fighters across 3 diverse types, 25 transports across 3 types, 4 VIP transports across 4 types, 12 jet trainers across 2 types...) having diversity is a recipe for very high sustainment costs and actually poor operational capability.

Building your own for a small nation is even more ridiculous.

As for the Indian example (and I don't think anyone would class India as a small nation ;)), I don't think I would put the Tejas out as a great example. As to its lack of indigenous engine and sensors, dare we talk about the GTRE Kaveri??
 
Last edited:

TMA1

ACCESS: Confidential
Joined
Feb 6, 2021
Messages
108
Reaction score
161
as i said earlier it is wise for smaller nations to diversify their weapons systems. better would be building your own kit. I think India is wise in developing their own weapons. their major issue for Tejas is lack of indigenous engine and sensors. buying from French and Russian in the mean time as stop gap is smart.
View attachment 650339

For a small nation with presumably a small fleet (e.g. Malaysia - total 39 fighters across 3 diverse types, 25 transports across 3 types, 4 VIP transports across 4 types, 12 jet trainers across 2 types...) having diversity is a recipe for very high sustainment costs and actually poor operational capability.

Building your own for a small nation is even more ridiculous.

As for the Indian example (and I don't think anyone would class India as a small nation ;)), I don't think I would put the Tejas out as a great example. As to its lack of indigenous engine and sensors, dare we talk about the GTRE Kaveri??

I was talking about small and developing nations in general.

concerning your main point it may be more efficient to buy from one supplier but this also means you are completely beholden to that supplier and their whims. look at caatsa. look at rumors of Iranian tor missile batteries being deactivated by Israel with quiet help from Russian weapons companies. look at ME and west asian nations that have to develop clever ways to keep their western fighters operational. even rumors of the so-called "kill switch". Malaysia's foreign and domestic policies might some day be at odds with the American geopolitical stance. if I was a native son of Malaysia I'd want to see hard home grown development and stop gap purchases of equipment from multiple nations in order to protect from sanctions and embargos and sabotage. wouldn't you feel the same for your nation?
 

GTX

All hail the God of Frustration!!!
Staff member
Senior Member
Joined
Apr 15, 2006
Messages
3,452
Reaction score
1,538
Website
beyondthesprues.com
There's a difference between dreams and harsh reality...

Anyway, the latest I have heard (as of only yesterday) is that the RMAF is definitely going for the ex-Kuwaiti F/A-18s
 

helmutkohl

ACCESS: Top Secret
Staff member
Senior Member
Joined
Nov 29, 2010
Messages
860
Reaction score
1,471
I think I've mentioned it quite often.

For some countries, buying aircraft is not just an issue of operational costs and capabilities, but also strategic foreign relations.
Of course operating as few types as possible will be cheaper but for some countries they are looking for something else.

The reason why Egypt and Qatar is buying so many different types is because they want more support from powerful countries in their international disputes. Egypt against Turkey in their East Med claims and Libya, Qatar against the Arab world (although this seems somewhat resolved now).

Malaysian pilots love their Hornets, but the reason they went for Russian aircraft in the first place was because the US would not release the AMRAAMs at that time. The US has policies restricting the use of their weapons or systems, usually for the sake of keeping balance in the region. Malaysia, while overall peaceful, has some issues with Singapore and Indonesia. Two countries that the US doesn't want to upset. This was brought up many times by Malaysia, even as recently as last year.

These restrictions/strategic flexibility are why some countries buy two similar aircraft. MiG-29s and F-16s (Egypt), MiG-29s and Mirage 2000s (Peru, India), F-16s and Mirage 200s (Egypt as well, Greece, etc).

For me I think Malaysia should keep it US and French, but Malaysia tends to opt for Russian sometimes simply because the Russians are more open to non-traditional payment, such as palm oil and rubber.
 

TomcatViP

Hellcat
Joined
Feb 12, 2017
Messages
4,544
Reaction score
3,972
Python_LCAPQK9.png
 

helmutkohl

ACCESS: Top Secret
Staff member
Senior Member
Joined
Nov 29, 2010
Messages
860
Reaction score
1,471
some big orders for engines

 

helmutkohl

ACCESS: Top Secret
Staff member
Senior Member
Joined
Nov 29, 2010
Messages
860
Reaction score
1,471
Battle of the Asian light fighters!!

If I were the Malaysians, I'd choose the Golden Eagle. not sure if the FC-1 stands a chance given the recent incursions between China into Malaysian space

 

blackkite

Don't laugh, don't cry, don't even curse, but.....
Joined
May 31, 2007
Messages
8,075
Reaction score
4,168
Hi! HAL Tejas Mk2.
https://www.ainonline.com/aviation-news/defense/2019-03-11/hal-ramps-lca-production-and-looks-mk2
"“After that [Mk1A], we should take up LCA Mk2…which in the long term would replace the Jaguar, the Mirage, and MiG-29s,” said Dhanoa. The Mk2—a medium-weight fighter version of the supersonic LCA with a maximum all-up weight of 17.5 tonnes, a delta wing, and close-coupled canard, and a payload of 6.5 tonnes—will be powered by a General Electric F414 engine with advanced digital control. It will have an advanced sensor suite and be capable of firing beyond-visual-range (BVR) air-to-air missiles beyond 100 km (62 miles). The addition of an infrared search and track system will allow the fighter to track aircraft through their heat signature.

Based on the IAF LCA, the naval version of the LCA Mk2 will require an increased-thrust engine, reduced weight, an increased wing area, and a tailhook. “We have to move on towards a twin-engined deck-based CATOBAR [aatapult assisted take-off but arrested recovery] fighter,” chief of naval staff Sunil Lanba told AIN.

Beyond the LCA program, the Advanced Medium Combat Aircraft (AMCA) is India’s fifth-generation fighter planned for production once the LCA Mk2 design is frozen. It is said to be designed for swing role, with BVR and close-combat capability, and precision strike. Madhavan said that a manufacturing partner would be sought for the AMCA."

 

Attachments

  • HAL_LCA_MK2.png
    HAL_LCA_MK2.png
    220.9 KB · Views: 134
  • Dz03GW9XQAAM82N.jpg
    Dz03GW9XQAAM82N.jpg
    213.7 KB · Views: 108
Last edited:

starviking

ACCESS: Top Secret
Senior Member
Joined
Sep 29, 2006
Messages
1,215
Reaction score
380
will require an increased-thrust engine, reduced weight
Usually naval variants are more heavy than land-based due to strengthened airframe.
Maybe they are talking about using stronger but lighter materials, so that the overall impact of strengthening the airframe doesn’t result in an over-heavy aeroplane?
 

blackkite

Don't laugh, don't cry, don't even curse, but.....
Joined
May 31, 2007
Messages
8,075
Reaction score
4,168
https://www.defencexp.com/in-depth-analysis-tejas-mk2-or-mwf-part-1-2/

"Recently some crucial updates on Tejas mk2 project came out. As per the reports, metal cutting of Tejas mk2 has already started. Also report about its possible numbers came out.

Tejas mk2 is also known as the Medium Weight Fighter (MWF) aircraft. It’s highly likely that it will get a totally new name in the upcoming period.

In this article, we will have a look upon some aspects of the Tejas mk2 or MWF. We will discuss why IAF needs this aircraft? Where does Tejas mk2 fit in the arsenal of IAF? IAF is expecting how many units of this fighter aircraft? What’s the timeline of this project and what’sthe current status? Also we will try to analyse the manufacturing plans. We will analyse prospects of its timely delivery.

We will cover other important aspects of MWF like its specifications, features, possible weapon packages, cost and comparison with other aircrafts like Dassault Rafale in the next article.
Introduction-
Tejas mk2 or the Medium Weight Fighter is being developed by Hindustan Aeronautics Limited (HAL) with Aeronautical Development Agency (ADA) and Defence Research and Development organisation (DRDO). It is going to be a single engine, 4.5 generation fighter aircraft. MWF will have many state of the art technologies integrated with it. It is going to be the mainstay of the IAF in future."

https://www.defencexp.com/in-depth-analysis-tejas-mk2-or-mwf-part-2-2/
 
Last edited:

blackkite

Don't laugh, don't cry, don't even curse, but.....
Joined
May 31, 2007
Messages
8,075
Reaction score
4,168
https://idrw.org/lca-af-mk2-design-evolution-explained/
"Leaked Internal presentation of Aeronautical Development Agency (ADA) of the LCA-AIR FORCE Mk2 design Evolution shows how LCA-Tejas design has evolved from its early design to the current proposed Medium Weight Fighter (MWF) where it will be replacing the bulk of Medium Category aircraft already in the current fleet of Multi-role fighter aircraft.

MWF-AF will be replacing Mig-29, Mirage-2000 and Jaguar fleet from 2028 onwards starting with Jaguar Strike fighter jet which will start retiring from the force by 2034 completely followed by Mig-29 and Mirage-2000 in the early 2040s.

LCA-Mk1/ Mk1A

Present LCA-Mk1/ Mk1A which has confirmed production order of 123 units more or less will stick to the legacy design which was designed in the ’90s. Mk1A will not only be just upgraded Mk1 with better avionics and radar but will be lighter in weight and will have internal changes in the aircraft which will make it much more maintenance-friendly their by reducing its downtime. HAL also has proposed to replace Line Replacement units from the imported ones to the locally developed ones which are much lighter and better than the imported ones.

LCA-Mk2

Mk2 initially proposed by ADA and agreed by IAF in 2014 was Mk1 design with a 500 mm longer fuselage plug which allowed bump of Weight (Maximum takeoff weight (MTOW) from 13500 kg to 15000 kg which also improved upon payload to 4500 kg from 3500 kg and additional internal fuel of 186 kg. LCA-Mk2 was to be powered by the much more powerful GE F414 engine which was the biggest upgrade in the aircraft but Mk2 failed to materialize after HAL proposed the development of Mk1A with better Avionics and upgrades with better performance without a requirement for a major engine change. A major disadvantage of this proposed design was that a more powerful engine and even with increased internal fuel in the aircraft ferry and combat range could have remained the same as Mk1/ Mk1A limiting its role to point interception missions largely.

LCA-Mk2-C

Mk2-C was the first road map for the development of Medium Weight Fighter (MWF) proposed by ADA in 2017 which had major radical changes in the design. Mk2-C design sported ‘Canards’ for the first time and was 1000 mm longer and had MTOW of 165000 kg and also was 300 mm wider which bumped up its payload to 5500 kg with Internal fuel of 3300 kg. Mk2-C also was first to sport a wingtip pylon configuration and was to be powered by a powerful GE F414 engine. Mk2-C also featured 11 Hard points to accommodate more weapons due to an increase in its payload carrying capability. Mk2-C design border lined near Medium Category Class but further design improvements were sought by IAF along with additional operational improvements which lead to further refinement.

MWF-AF

Final configuration of the proposed Medium Weight Fighter (MWF) which was confirmed at Aero India 2019 by ADA earlier this year was further design refinement of the proposed Mk2-C which is now much bigger yet carried same proposed design changes seen in Mk2-C. MWF will be 350 mm longer than Mk2-C and stands at 1350 mm now and will have 1000 kg additional payload which translates into MTOW of 175000 kg. Internal fuel of 3300 kg remains the same which suggests that IAF was ok to lose some ferry and combat range for the aircraft which likely will be supplemented with drop tanks or by reducing drag. MWF will feature 11 Hard-points to accommodate more weapons due to an increase in its payload carrying capability.

Conclusion: As seen above, The LCA-Mk1/ Mk1A and MWF-AF still share many design characteristics, including avionics, ejection seats, and armaments but MWF-AF is largely a new aircraft and is larger and bigger then LCA-Mk1/ Mk1A. MWF-AF is longer by 9.90 % and has a heavier empty weight of 15.38%, and has a 24% heavier maximum take-off weight than the LCA-Mk1/ Mk1A. MWF-AF carries 24% more internal fuel, increasing ferry range by 40% and endurance by 50% over the LCA-Mk1/Mk1A. Indigenous content is likely to jump from 35-40% to 60-65% in MWF-AF with its F-414 engine being the most expensive imported content in the aircraft."
 

Attachments

  • MWF-AF1.jpg
    MWF-AF1.jpg
    69.9 KB · Views: 129
Last edited:

TMA1

ACCESS: Confidential
Joined
Feb 6, 2021
Messages
108
Reaction score
161
It is lovely looking. I like the placement of the canards. But that is coming from a guy who has no clue how it works lol
 

blackkite

Don't laugh, don't cry, don't even curse, but.....
Joined
May 31, 2007
Messages
8,075
Reaction score
4,168

Attachments

  • YBw1GUo.jpg
    YBw1GUo.jpg
    320.9 KB · Views: 103
  • IMGP1025 wm (Medium).jpg
    IMGP1025 wm (Medium).jpg
    105.6 KB · Views: 74
  • mjT8ikq.jpg
    mjT8ikq.jpg
    201.5 KB · Views: 78
  • YwHBBX8.jpg
    YwHBBX8.jpg
    207.1 KB · Views: 74
  • 7yaqh57j29d41.jpg
    7yaqh57j29d41.jpg
    204.2 KB · Views: 69
  • 69b1121ffa206d9e659baa8d416ed540.jpg
    69b1121ffa206d9e659baa8d416ed540.jpg
    60.9 KB · Views: 72
  • LCA-Tejas-INS-Vikramaditya-Navy-DRDO-5.jpg
    LCA-Tejas-INS-Vikramaditya-Navy-DRDO-5.jpg
    19.2 KB · Views: 71

Archibald

ACCESS: Above Top Secret
Senior Member
Joined
Jun 6, 2006
Messages
6,680
Reaction score
5,439

GTX

All hail the God of Frustration!!!
Staff member
Senior Member
Joined
Apr 15, 2006
Messages
3,452
Reaction score
1,538
Website
beyondthesprues.com
I've lost count of the number of times that deal has been reported
 

overscan (PaulMM)

Administrator
Staff member
Joined
Dec 27, 2005
Messages
13,466
Reaction score
7,172
Interesting! Even more so for the 1795 US flag on the engine, and the pre-1801 Union Jack on the British parts :D
I'm getting a strong Mike Bradrocke cutaway drawing mash-up vibe from this. Seems like a Source Grade 2 item to me. [Scott's helpful Source Grading concept here]

Its just a previously published cutaway fan-labelled with a bunch of flags showing how Indian it all is.
 

Pioneer

Seek out and close with the enemy
Senior Member
Joined
May 22, 2006
Messages
2,116
Reaction score
660

Similar threads

Top