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Grumman / Shin Meiwa ASR-544-4

circle-5

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Something different for today ... a collaborative project between Grumman and Shin Meiwa in Japan.

Note wing engines can tilt up a few degrees (it's described on another page). Also, there is heavy reliance on active boundary layer control via twin turbines behind the rear pressure bulkhead. MAD system is in wingtip floats. Front and rear torpedo bays (are these Mk.48s?) underwing missiles and side-launching sonobuoys, flares, etc. make it a comprehensive and lethal system.

ACLS (air cushion landing system) allows the aircraft to land and shelter basically anywhere. Lots of innovative technologies in this design.
 

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Pioneer

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Oh my what a beautiful design, which I'd never heard of, let alone seen before :eek:

Thanks for sharing and enlightening me circle-5

Regards
Pioneer
 

TomS

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Definitely not Mk 48s in the torpedo bays. Looks like the usual lightweights.
 

CJGibson

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Oh, that looks lovely, a melange of US-1, Sea Master and Mermaid. The best bits I suspect.

Chris
 

Silencer1

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Thanks for sharing, circle-5!

Never heard of that previously.
Reminds me Beriev A-40.
 

harrier

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Wow. No one on the design team said no to any idea it seems (well, maybe supersonic speed and VTOL!)

Can you imagine the views of any maintenance folks who go to see it? :eek:

But looks v cool. Thanks for posting - genuinely new and interesting.
 

Silencer1

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And ability to ressuply in open sea from the submarines - in their underwater position!

P.S. This aircraft also need sails to quitely and efficiently goes at sea
:cool:
 

LowObservable

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Cool. Like a seagoing version of the contemporary 7X7 designs.

However, it's hard to see why they did it, unless they were thinking of a joint JMSDF/USN program to replace the P-2J (which was eventually replaced by the P-3 in the 1980s). I'm not aware of any USN requirement - at the time, SOSUS/P-3C was working very nicely against the noisy Soviet boats.
 

Arjen

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A flying boat with jets, what's not to like B)
 

hesham

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Great find my dear Circle-5,

and ASR means G,it was Grumman G-544-4.
 

circle-5

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What I'd like to know is what 'VP' stands for, as in 'The VP ACLS aircraft ...' in §8.6.1 or 'Post 1980 VP Configuration ...' My acronym lexicon says this airplane is the Vice-President. That can't be right.
 

CJGibson

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This is, I'm sure, granny/eggs/sucking, but is it patrol squadron?

Chris
 

TomS

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#Exactly. In USN parlance, VP is a fixed-wing maritime patrol squadron and it's not uncommon to refer to their aircraft as "VP aircraft" or similar.

For example: https://www.vpnavy.com/ .
 

circle-5

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TomS said:
#Exactly. In USN parlance, VP is a fixed-wing maritime patrol squadron and it's not uncommon to refer to their aircraft as "VP aircraft" or similar.

For example: https://www.vpnavy.com/ .
So VP stands for 'Patrol Squadron'. I did not know that. Thank you for the enlightenment!
 

TomS

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circle-5 said:
So VP stands for 'Patrol Squadron'. I did not know that. Thank you for the enlightenment!
No problem. To add to your lexicon, here is a list of all the US Navy and Marine Corps squadron types:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_United_States_Navy_aircraft_squadrons
 

circle-5

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Wow – more useful information – thank you TomS ! Attached is a bottom view of the airplane, showing the hover-cushion and torpedo bays. I wonder if the missiles are supposed be Harpoons or just some notional equivalent.
 

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TomS

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circle-5 said:
I wonder if the missiles are supposed be Harpoons or just some notional equivalent.
They look a lot like the Japanese ASM-1.
 

Pioneer

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I wonder if the missiles are supposed be Harpoons or just some notional equivalent.
I'd suggest they look like AS.34 Kormoran


Regards
Pioneer
 

Hood

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This is a wonderful discovery.
I agree the missiles look like Type 80 ASM-1. It became operational in 1980 so supports the dating of this project.
I presume this was meant as a PS-1 replacement and that Grumman thought it might suit a P-3 replacement, pre-empting the P-7 effort of the mid-80s.
 

LowObservable

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Rockwell AGM-53 Condor. The program was still going at the time.

PS Condor always looked suspiciously like the Rafael Popeye.
 

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Maveric said:
Are you shure, hesham?
Of course,please see;

https://www.secretprojects.co.uk/forum/index.php/topic,568.msg87444.html#msg87444
 

TomS

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LowObservable said:
Rockwell AGM-53 Condor. The program was still going at the time.

PS Condor always looked suspiciously like the Rafael Popeye.
That makes sense. The seaplane model is a bit simplified but it has the tailcone that you don't see on ASM-1, and a USN missile makes more sense on the model with USN markings.

I wouldn't be surprised if Popeye had some connection to Condor. It's supposed to get a derivative of the Pyramid glide bomb, which always seemed to me to be related to Walleye. And Walleye definitely had Condor connections.
 

Silencer1

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This aircraft completely lacks landing gear. It's common to the flying boats - although, I wonder how it could be stored on airfield, with air-cushion system unpowered? Of course, ACLS could remain pressurized ... but could it remain stable?
For example, for aircraft maintenance, refuelling, rearming?

This nice project have been full of questions for me :cool:
And seems a last Grumman attempt to design of sea-based aircraft - very advance, and too challenging.
 

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Probably uses a cradle for beaching gear like many non-amphibians.
 

Richard N

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Here is a report on the Bell ACLS as fitted and used on a Lake Amphibian. It might have some of the information you are looking for.

A PDF "TESTS OF THE BELL AEROSPACE LA-4 ACLS FITTED WITH SUCTION BRAKING AND PREDICTIONS FOR OTHER AIRCRAFT" is available here: http://www.dtic.mil/dtic/tr/fulltext/u2/a023850.pdf

The report includes information on ACLS use with the C-130, Jindivik drone, and XC-8A DHC Buffalo.
 

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Nice looking plane. Also, the main reason I love this site, all these cool designs I never knew existed. Thanks for sharing C5.
 

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TomS said:
circle-5 said:
So VP stands for 'Patrol Squadron'. I did not know that. Thank you for the enlightenment!
No problem. To add to your lexicon, here is a list of all the US Navy and Marine Corps squadron types:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_United_States_Navy_aircraft_squadrons
Actually, VP stands for Heavier than air (V) and Patrol (P).
 

CJGibson

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Well, every day is a school day. That is most interesting. Always wondered why it was 'V' but never pursued it. Thanks for enlightening me Famvburg.

heaVEE-er I suppose?

Chris
 

Arjen

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CJGibson said:
heaVEE-er I suppose?
'Z' stood for lighter than air. If anyone's looking for logic there... :(
 

Grey Havoc

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Arjen said:
'Z' stood for lighter than air. If anyone's looking for logic there... :(
A carry over from 'Zeppelin', I believe.
 

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That would make sense. Thanks!
 

TomS

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CJGibson said:
Well, every day is a school day. That is most interesting. Always wondered why it was 'V' but never pursued it. Thanks for enlightening me Famvburg.

heaVEE-er I suppose?

Chris
Probably from the same source as the V in CV for aircraft carrier. And the origin of that is not totally clear, but it's probably from the French voler (to fly).

Initially yes, the V was heavier than air, contrasted with Z for lighter than air (probably derived from Zeppelin). Today the V means fixed-wing, to contrast with H for helicopter.
 

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OMG we got that from the FRENCH?????

Next you'll be telling me that the Marines' Hymn tune is from a FRENCH OPERA.... not merely that but FRENCH LIGHT OPERA. And a lyric about cowardly cops.

Nonsense!

Seriously - I wonder if Friedman has an explanation for "V" somewhere.
 

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I'd always heard that the designation initially meant Cruiser-Vouler(plane?). CA (Cruiser Aviation) was already taken by CA when they switched Armored/Heavy cruisers from ACR to CA (Cruiser Armored, Cruiser A class). Also\, as previously noted Vouler is a single word that refers specifically to fixed wing, heavier than air which is a nice distinction compared to just aviation.
 

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According to my history lessons, the (Roman) language French was the - or still is an- official Language of Diplomacy and International Communication. That is why some designations, abbreviations and words are based of the French language.
Even today in IT, we still use French words, taken from days, they used Morse code and telegraph.
Of course, other languages like English, Spanish and soon Chinese have taken its role.
 

TomS

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LowObservable said:
Seriously - I wonder if Friedman has an explanation for "V" somewhere.
Not that I found in US Carriers -- he mentions Jupiter becoming Langley and being designated CV-1 without any mention of why that designation was chosen. The logic I mentioned is basically the same referenced here:

http://www.navweaps.com/index_tech/index_ships_list.php#Aircraft_Carriers
 

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Or maybe it's just from "Vehicle" ?

LowObservable said:
OMG we got that from the FRENCH?????

Next you'll be telling me that the Marines' Hymn tune is from a FRENCH OPERA.... not merely that but FRENCH LIGHT OPERA. And a lyric about cowardly cops.

Nonsense!

Seriously - I wonder if Friedman has an explanation for "V" somewhere.
You know, being from an originally ex-british colony, you speak english (well, your own version, as peoples from colonies usually don't speak the correct language from their masters…) and thus use a lot of FRENCH words without knowing it… sorry.
As for the "cowardly cops" part… Seriously, I thought the "french surrendering monkeys" stuff was out of fashion these days ...tiresome to see it here.
 
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