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French Secret Projects 3

Which subject would you like to see for "French secret projects 3"

  • French VTOL 1909-1999

    Votes: 25 24.5%
  • French spaceplanes : Transporteur Aérospatial to Hermès

    Votes: 15 14.7%
  • French secret projects: fighters, bombers and other warplanes 1935-1942

    Votes: 61 59.8%
  • Others

    Votes: 0 0.0%
  • French hovercraft projects : Ader to SEDAM, Bertin etc...

    Votes: 1 1.0%

  • Total voters
    102

athpilot

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newsdeskdan said:
athpilot said:
Hi Mr. Carbonel! Today I received my copy of French Secret Projects 2: it´s really great and well researched. One of the most interesting items to me is the time when the 3rd Reich tried to use the french aviation industry for their own pusposes. This is not only a matter of aircrafts but also of the economic concepts of nazi-Germany. We know that the germans intended to cooperat and trade with their occupied araes in the west: they wanted to install some kind of free-trade zone under their supremacy. From Norway to France and Benelux to Italy. But we do not know much about how this should particularly work. And the whole east (Poland, Soviet Union) was treated as a zone for pure exploitation. So this is one more thing I would like to see a third Volume that covers the timeframe until (or better: including) the german occupation.

Cheers
You mean this sort of thing (see attached). Yes, that would be good. :)
Wow! Quiet interesting! Where did you found this?
 

newsdeskdan

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athpilot said:
newsdeskdan said:
athpilot said:
Hi Mr. Carbonel! Today I received my copy of French Secret Projects 2: it´s really great and well researched. One of the most interesting items to me is the time when the 3rd Reich tried to use the french aviation industry for their own pusposes. This is not only a matter of aircrafts but also of the economic concepts of nazi-Germany. We know that the germans intended to cooperat and trade with their occupied araes in the west: they wanted to install some kind of free-trade zone under their supremacy. From Norway to France and Benelux to Italy. But we do not know much about how this should particularly work. And the whole east (Poland, Soviet Union) was treated as a zone for pure exploitation. So this is one more thing I would like to see a third Volume that covers the timeframe until (or better: including) the german occupation.

Cheers
You mean this sort of thing (see attached). Yes, that would be good. :)
Wow! Quiet interesting! Where did you found this?
It's from a CIOS report written by Major John W Logan of the USAAC and Arthur Edgar Woodward-Nutt of MAP.
 

athpilot

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newsdeskdan said:
athpilot said:
newsdeskdan said:
athpilot said:
Hi Mr. Carbonel! Today I received my copy of French Secret Projects 2: it´s really great and well researched. One of the most interesting items to me is the time when the 3rd Reich tried to use the french aviation industry for their own pusposes. This is not only a matter of aircrafts but also of the economic concepts of nazi-Germany. We know that the germans intended to cooperat and trade with their occupied araes in the west: they wanted to install some kind of free-trade zone under their supremacy. From Norway to France and Benelux to Italy. But we do not know much about how this should particularly work. And the whole east (Poland, Soviet Union) was treated as a zone for pure exploitation. So this is one more thing I would like to see a third Volume that covers the timeframe until (or better: including) the german occupation.

Cheers
You mean this sort of thing (see attached). Yes, that would be good. :)
Wow! Quiet interesting! Where did you found this?
It's from a CIOS report written by Major John W Logan of the USAAC and Arthur Edgar Woodward-Nutt of MAP.
Thanx a lot! Does the document say anything about the procederes of procurement? Carbonel mentions for example the Me 164 which the Messerschmitt AG gave to the french for further developement. But the french did not take it too seriuos and procrastinated it until there was no use for such a courierplane anymore. This could be some kind of resistence. These kind of things are very interesting (to me).
 

newsdeskdan

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athpilot said:
newsdeskdan said:
athpilot said:
newsdeskdan said:
athpilot said:
Hi Mr. Carbonel! Today I received my copy of French Secret Projects 2: it´s really great and well researched. One of the most interesting items to me is the time when the 3rd Reich tried to use the french aviation industry for their own pusposes. This is not only a matter of aircrafts but also of the economic concepts of nazi-Germany. We know that the germans intended to cooperat and trade with their occupied araes in the west: they wanted to install some kind of free-trade zone under their supremacy. From Norway to France and Benelux to Italy. But we do not know much about how this should particularly work. And the whole east (Poland, Soviet Union) was treated as a zone for pure exploitation. So this is one more thing I would like to see a third Volume that covers the timeframe until (or better: including) the german occupation.

Cheers
You mean this sort of thing (see attached). Yes, that would be good. :)
Wow! Quiet interesting! Where did you found this?
It's from a CIOS report written by Major John W Logan of the USAAC and Arthur Edgar Woodward-Nutt of MAP.
Thanx a lot! Does the document say anything about the procederes of procurement? Carbonel mentions for example the Me 164 which the Messerschmitt AG gave to the french for further developement. But the french did not take it too seriuos and procrastinated it until there was no use for such a courierplane anymore. This could be some kind of resistence. These kind of things are very interesting (to me).
I haven't studied it exhaustively by any means but I know of at least two CIOS reports on German exploitation of the French aviation industry - one dealing exclusively with Paris and one with the rest of France. On cursory inspection neither of them makes any reference to an Me 164. Caudron worked extensively for Messerschmitt on numerous types but that one isn't mentioned. Both reports give details of the procedures under which the French worked for the Germans. I must admit, I'm not aware of any book which gives a good account of French wartime collaboration with the Germans on aircraft development and manufacture. Is there one?
 

JC Carbonel

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If I remember correctly the information on the MeC164 was sourced from the Caudron book by Lela presse (which was loaned to me but which I don't have now so I cannot check). But mention of the MeC164 appeared earlier in William Green works (RAF Flying Review) and even earlier in the AI(2)G "New and projected types" report (again from memory).

JCC
 

Arjen

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JC Carbonel said:
If I remember correctly the information on the MeC164 was sourced from the Caudron book by Lela presse (which was loaned to me but which I don't have now so I cannot check). But mention of the MeC164 appeared earlier in William Green works (RAF Flying Review) and even earlier in the AI(2)G "New and projected types" report (again from memory).

JCC
From 'Les Avions Caudron - Tome II' by André Hauet, Lela Presse 2002:
 

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newsdeskdan

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JC Carbonel said:
If I remember correctly the information on the MeC164 was sourced from the Caudron book by Lela presse (which was loaned to me but which I don't have now so I cannot check). But mention of the MeC164 appeared earlier in William Green works (RAF Flying Review) and even earlier in the AI(2)G "New and projected types" report (again from memory).

JCC
It's not in A.I.2(G) Report No. 2383 German Aircraft: New and Projected Types. See attached page from the index. Odd that it's not mentioned in either CIOS report on German exploitation of the French aviation industry when so many other projects, such as the Me 409, are.
 

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athpilot

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Thank you all so much! Really great informations.
 

hesham

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My dear JCC,

can you add only two years,from 1935 to 1944 ?.
 

edwest

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Is there a good book about the French saucer projects done right after the war?
 

Hood

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Your best bet would be Flying Saucer Aircraft (Secret Projects) by Bill Rose & Tony Buttler if you can still hold of a second-hand copy.
 

edwest

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Thank you. I managed to get it at the first release price.
 

Dilandu

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Are there any source which might give some insight about French pre-war & wartime guided weaponry? Guided bombs, flying bombs, drone planes, remote-controlled torpedoes, that kind of stuff? So far I managed to find more or less conclusive data only about French tracked mines.

Would be really grateful for any kind of such data.
 

hesham

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hesham said:
My dear JCC,

can you add only two years,from 1935 to 1944 ?.
Please make it as this,and in TU magazine all materials.
 

bechar06

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To JC Carbonel : Thanks for your 2 books ... FSP1 and 2 ! Congratulations ... To read and reread with delectation, in small doses as the matter is rich and unknown

Couldn’t there be a place for a book ( FSP 3 ) that exposes the French space adventure ? Beside the book of Ph Varnoteaux ( Nouveau monde ) which is little illustrated and largely neglects MILITARY MISSILES and studies ( all the kinds of weapons ) and besides COMAERO studies... For example the HADES missile is widely unknown and poorly documented
( it would thus have been difficult to intercept it by ABM thanks to its not purelly ballistic trajectory )

The period to be covered ( 45 - 95 ) seems more consistent with the first 2 books. The space and weapons developpements and industries are widely dual ( civilian & before military ). But a lot of people do'nt know the military ( and more secret ) side ) ! the cooperation dimension ( of that adventure ) does can be overlooked with its many unsuccessful ( and secret ) projects

Missiles or not-propulsed weapons: surface-to-surface and air-to-surface missiles (ballistic, cruise, anti-ship, anti-tank, etc.), surface-to-air missiles (and anti-ballistic), air-to-air missiles, and anti-satellite weapons ...

A big work to do !
 
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