Few never-where projects from Central Naval Museum in St.Petersburg

gollevainen

gollevainen

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Took a trip to St.Petersburg earlier this week and visited in the Tsetralnyy Voenno-Morskoi Muzeyi or in the Central naval museum. It contains alot of models of Russian and Soviet warships of which many pics are found on the internet. Among those that are some of the famous never-where projects such as the pr.82 Stalingrad class and the pr. 11990 Anchar class destroyers. However it had few models which at least I had not seen pics before so I'll post them here.

Apologies if the quality of the photos are not that good, I'm not much of a photographer nor was my equipment the most fitted for the task.

First a Project 66 Heavy cruiser








Unknown large minesweeper labeled just as "Eskadrennogo Tralshika 1970 g" (meaning Squardon minesweeper, year 1970)


 
The project 66 Heavy cruiser is a known post war cruiser killer of Soviet idea. Almost like a small scale Stalingrad. Often mentioned together with the Project 65 Light Cruiser.
In Russian language:
History:
http://www.navycollection.narod.ru/ships/Russia/Cruisers/TKR_Proect_66/history.html
Data:
http://www.navycollection.narod.ru/ships/Russia/Cruisers/TKR_Proect_66/ttx.html
Drawings:
http://www.navycollection.narod.ru/ships/Russia/Cruisers/TKR_Proect_66/fotos.html


The minesweeper could be either the Project 60, Project 259, Project 917 or Project 1262 coastal minesweeper designs. I know no info about these only their project numbers.
Also there are another minesweeper designs:
from 1960: Project 322
from 1956: Project 332
from 1954: Project 442
from 1969: Project 1251, based on Yurka class minesweeper (Project 266 - 1960)
 
Very beautiful models about a very interesting subjects!

Many thanks for sharing it with us. If you never can take more pics about the rest of the collection of unbuilt ship models we're going to thank you very much.

Could you please identify the model that can be seen behind the Project 66? Is that the Project 65 light cruiser?
 
pometablava said:
Could you please identify the model that can be seen behind the Project 66? Is that the Project 65 light cruiser?
Click to expand...

No, that is the Stalingrad.
Project 65 is much smaller:
pic_22.jpg

Top to bottom:
Project 24 Battleship
Project 82 Stalingrad Battlecruiser
Project 65 Heavy Cruiser
Project 66 Light Cruiser
 
Since it was in the background it looked smaller

Many thanks Tzoli
 
The project 66 Heavy cruiser is a known post war cruiser killer of Soviet idea. Almost like a small scale Stalingrad. Often mentioned together with the Project 65 Light Cruiser
Click to expand...

Yes I know its a fairly known "never-where project", My point was that there have not been any photos of that particular model from the Museum floating around in the internet. Thus I decided to put my part to the effort and post them.

Also as for the rest of the neverwhere designs in the museum, indeed there was the Pr.66 bigger brother Pr.82 and the two Anchar models. I didn't take many pics of them, just few close ups of parts that were puzzling me. Pics of those models can be found in various Russian internet sites, like the great Bastion-Karpenko site http://bastion-karpenko.ru/kreiser/
 
pometablava said:
Since it was in the background it looked smaller

Many thanks Tzoli
Click to expand...

Stalingrad can be easily distinguished by it's weird funnel lower uptakes where it connects (does it really connect?) to the bridge superstructure and the larger space between the funnels
 
Yeah, the heavy cruisers Pr. 82 and Pr.66 and the light cruiser pr.84 as well as the battleship pr.24 all feature somewhat similar design and siluette with seccondary guns in the centerline aft the main guns and tow closely placed funnels in the mid section.
 
I wonder if some of these models were the ones Breyer wrote about in Battleships and Battle Cruisers 1905-1970. I always wondered what they actually represented. To whit:

"Unfortunately, it was not possible to obtain photographs of the models of various battleships exhibited in the Central Naval Museum in Leningrad. All that could be obtained were some scanty descriptions....

1. Model of a battleship similar to the Italian Vittorio Veneto Class but of flush deck design; two funnels, the heavy guns consisting of three triple turrets plus 16 to heavy anti-aircraft guns. This could possibly be a representation of the Sovetskij Sojuz Class.
2. Model of a battleship with one funnel and the heavy guns in three triple turrets; the design shows some unmistakable German influences. This could possibly be a modified imitation of the German Bismarck Class.
3. Model of a battleship (presumably battle cruiser) once again showing typically Italian influence; in general very similar to the Italian heavy cruisers of the Zara Class. Heavy guns in four twin turrets, two funnels widely spaced. On the quarter deck two aircraft catapults side by side.
4. Model of a battle cruiser with two very widely spaced funnels and one aircraft catapult between these. Heavy guns in four twin turrets. Very long and slim hull. This could be a model of the Tretij Internacional Class."
 
carsinamerica said:
I wonder if some of these models were the ones Breyer wrote about in Battleships and Battle Cruisers 1905-1970. I always wondered what they actually represented. To whit:

"Unfortunately, it was not possible to obtain photographs of the models of various battleships exhibited in the Central Naval Museum in Leningrad. All that could be obtained were some scanty descriptions....

1. Model of a battleship similar to the Italian Vittorio Veneto Class but of flush deck design; two funnels, the heavy guns consisting of three triple turrets plus 16 to heavy anti-aircraft guns. This could possibly be a representation of the Sovetskij Sojuz Class.
2. Model of a battleship with one funnel and the heavy guns in three triple turrets; the design shows some unmistakable German influences. This could possibly be a modified imitation of the German Bismarck Class.
3. Model of a battleship (presumably battle cruiser) once again showing typically Italian influence; in general very similar to the Italian heavy cruisers of the Zara Class. Heavy guns in four twin turrets, two funnels widely spaced. On the quarter deck two aircraft catapults side by side.
4. Model of a battle cruiser with two very widely spaced funnels and one aircraft catapult between these. Heavy guns in four twin turrets. Very long and slim hull. This could be a model of the Tretij Internacional Class."
Click to expand...

There is no Tretij International class. it is a fictional name for a possible fictional class. The soviets designated Project numbers for their designs and only the ships laid down received names. Hence the 2 Kronshtadts, 4 Sovietsky Soyuzes and 3 out 5 Stalingrad class.
 
I wonder if some of these models were the ones Breyer wrote about in Battleships and Battle Cruisers 1905-1970. I always wondered what they actually represented. To whit:

"Unfortunately, it was not possible to obtain photographs of the models of various battleships exhibited in the Central Naval Museum in Leningrad. All that could be obtained were some scanty descriptions....

1. Model of a battleship similar to the Italian Vittorio Veneto Class but of flush deck design; two funnels, the heavy guns consisting of three triple turrets plus 16 to heavy anti-aircraft guns. This could possibly be a representation of the Sovetskij Sojuz Class.
2. Model of a battleship with one funnel and the heavy guns in three triple turrets; the design shows some unmistakable German influences. This could possibly be a modified imitation of the German Bismarck Class.
3. Model of a battleship (presumably battle cruiser) once again showing typically Italian influence; in general very similar to the Italian heavy cruisers of the Zara Class. Heavy guns in four twin turrets, two funnels widely spaced. On the quarter deck two aircraft catapults side by side.
4. Model of a battle cruiser with two very widely spaced funnels and one aircraft catapult between these. Heavy guns in four twin turrets. Very long and slim hull. This could be a model of the Tretij Internacional Class."
Click to expand...

Hello

At this time there were no models on the project 23 (Sovetski Sojuz) class battleship in the museum nor any of which awnsers to those descriptions (unless there was an exhibition which I missed!...well another reason to visit there again ;) ) One of the models might have been this early proposal of heavy cruiser evolution between the pr.69 and pr.82:
 
This last photo isn't about a heavy cruiser but an earlier variant of the Project 24 Battleship. According to my friend who have a book about it, the final version of the design is about 75% the same as this.
 
No, its related to the pr. 82 Heavy cruiser development. I'm not 100% where that model is but its (was) but according to all russian sources which precesent the image of the model clearly states that it is indeed an early variant of the pr.82. If you look the model more closely, compare its poportions and scale (most notably the mainguns) its clear that it is a cruiser, not a battleship.
 
Correction!
With my friend we were able to identify it! It is indeed the Stalingrad class Battlecruiser, Project 82 but a model from 1947. An earlier version of the ship as it seems.
Photo from here:
http://www.e-reading.club/bookreader.php/1002749/Vasilev_A._-_Superlinkory_Stalina._Sovetskiy_Soyuz_Kronshtadt_Stalingrad.html
 
Great pics! Best I've ever seen for Project 66. Hope you'll post more of whatever you come across!

I don't suppose anyone has come across any decent drawings (other than the one posted above) or pictures of models for the project 65 cruiser?

Bigger Guns, MORE POWER!

B)
 
M. A. Rozon said:
Great pics! Best I've ever seen for Project 66. Hope you'll post more of whatever you come across!

I don't suppose anyone has come across any decent drawings (other than the one posted above) or pictures of models for the project 65 cruiser?

Bigger Guns, MORE POWER!

B)
Click to expand...

Well drawing not, but detailed information of the 4 versions yes:
http://bastion-karpenko.ru/65/
 
Great pics! Best I've ever seen for Project 66. Hope you'll post more of whatever you come across!

I don't suppose anyone has come across any decent drawings (other than the one posted above) or pictures of models for the project 65 cruiser?

Bigger Guns, MORE POWER!
Click to expand...

There is rahter accurate new linedrawing in a book called "Kreisera Sovetskogo Voenno-Morskogo Flota, part II" by V.V. Vasyunkin. I have the book in hard cover and I have scanned it but I'm not sure whats the forum policy is about posting scanned images from books here. If its ok, I can post it. The series of of that book contains 4 volumes, I have 3 of them and there are some other interesting stuff in it like new and clear linedrawings of the Pr.82, PR.66, early version of the Pr.68 Chapaev, WWII era MK-4 and MK-6 small cruisers, 6 different variants of the post-war MLK small cruisers and 2 previously unknown "cruiser-monitors" dated in the late 40's and early 50's.
 
Well after reading the forum rules, I guess posting the image of the pr.65 falls into the fair use clause as it is a) rather poor quality and b) from a extrememly hard book to get hold on at least for us westerners.

 
Excellent, many thanks!

BTW, how did you bought the book. I've found a single reference via Google
 
I bought it from a bookstore at St.Petersburg, Dom Knigi if I recall the name, situated in the Nevski Prospect street.

I orginally tried to by it from Amazon.com, they did indeed send me a book, but it was the first part of "Kreisera Rossiiskogo Imperatorskogo Flota 1856-1917" which is sort of precursor for these books about the soviet era cruisers.
 
THANK YOU!THANK YOU!THANK YOU!THANK YOU!THANK YOU!THANK YOU!THANK YOU!THANK YOU!THANK YOU!THANK YOU!THANK YOU!THANK YOU!THANK YOU!THANK YOU!THANK YOU!THANK YOU!THANK YOU!THANK YOU!THANK YOU!THANK YOU!THANK YOU!THANK YOU!

Bigger Guns, MORE POWER!

B)
 
Tzoli said:
M. A. Rozon said:
Great pics! Best I've ever seen for Project 66. Hope you'll post more of whatever you come across!

I don't suppose anyone has come across any decent drawings (other than the one posted above) or pictures of models for the project 65 cruiser?

Bigger Guns, MORE POWER!

B)
Click to expand...

Well drawing not, but detailed information of the 4 versions yes:
http://bastion-karpenko.ru/65/
Click to expand...

Found that on Karpenko's site. Lots of good stuff there! I especially like the large drawing of the final version of Project 63.

Bigger Guns, MORE POWER!
B)
 

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