European Long-Range Strike Approach

Grey Havoc

Grey Havoc

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Forest Green said:
https://breakingdefense.com/2024/07...oland-in-new-elsa-long-range-missile-project/https://www.defensenews.com/global/...twitter&utm_medium=social&utm_campaign=tw_dfn
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Calls for such a weapon comes from the European Long-Range Strike Approach (ELSA) initiative, a French initiative to which Germany, Poland and Italy signed on at the NATO summit in Washington last week.

With an envisioned range of more than 1,000 kilometers, the missile would provide, in sizable numbers, what the German defense ministry calls a “deep precision strike” capability sought by NATO. The multinational initiative will entail “joint development and procurement,” according to a German defense ministry readout published online following a meeting last month of the German, French and Polish defense ministers.
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From back in June:
kqcke for you said:
Now this is interresting. But where does that fit in with everything. Do they want to go "full" autonomes with LPS, JFS-M and that missile? Whats with there M270 and GMLRS? What replaces GMLRS then? It
Trans: „“French Himars”: for post-2030, Thales and ArianeGroup are working on a strike capacity at 1,000km (vs. 150km max for the Himars), with a ballistic munition capable of reaching Mach 5....“
https://twitter.com/x/status/1803390852250620098
View: https://x.com/VincentLamigeon/status/180339085225062009

Edit: can't find the link right now but an older report said that safran and MBDA an AASM version which is ground launched. Probaly that what Safran is showing at its stand? I mean it would be a big missile as even the smallest AASM kit takes a 250kg / 550Ib Mk.82.
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One suspects that they had a heads up from within the French government...
 

Deep Anxiety Feeds Europe’s Deep-Strike Push​

https://aviationweek.com/defense/missile-defense-weapons/deep-anxiety-feeds-europes-deep-strike-push
“We can see from the war in Ukraine the decisive impact of long-range precision weapons, so the UK is stepping up, investing more than £400 million [$540 million] for long-range and hypersonic weapons this year,” UK Defense Secretary John Healey announced Feb. 13.
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Hypersonica began flight trials in Norway for a weapon it aims to have ready in 2029.
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During the test at Andoya Space in Norway, the missile topped Mach 6 and flew more than 300 km (186 mi.), the UK-German newcomer disclosed Feb. 10. Hypersonica said the system operated nominally during ascent and descent through the atmosphere and validated subcomponents at hypersonic speed.
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Meanwhile, a UK-German initiative to look at deep-precision-strike weapons with a range of 2,000 km is about to enter a new study phase, the UK Defense Ministry said Feb. 13.
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According to Polish officials, the ELSA initiative has expanded to include airborne early warning capabilities, long-range air-launched strike weapons and a “Euro Multi Missile Launcher,” in reference to the mobile ground-launch system.
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View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NqX0wwtkq1Q

Ruta Block 2.PNG
https://www.destinus.com/post/desti...-next-generation-long-range-strike-capabilityhttps://www.destinus.com/page/ruta
Amsterdam, Netherlands – Destinus announces the successful completion of a landmark flight test of its precision deep-strike system, Ruta Block 2. The test validates the next-generation of launch architecture and confirms the performance of two critical enabling technologies: an in-line booster configuration and foldable wings and control surfaces. Onboard footage confirmed successful in-flight wing deployment during the launch-and-transition sequence.
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lmaoxd said:
would this not drastically violate MTCR?
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MTCR is voluntary, international cooperation is allowed, and this missile, as far as I understand MTCR, falls under category 2; it doesn't have both the 500 kg warhead and 300 km range necessary for category 1. Furthermore, MTCR is mostly about not providing these capabilities to nations that don't already possess them, but Ukraine, as a member of MTCR, already does.
 
Forest Green said:
I think the MTCR has already failed at everything it was intended to stop.
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Ehh, I wouldn't say so to be honest. Most countries still don't posses missiles with ranges beyond 300 km and warhead sizes above 500 kg. There's a reason why China and Russia export their kalibr (club) and YJ-12 (CM-302) (just to give two examples) with much lowered ranges than their non-export counter parts, even if it's not a particularly difficult capability to develop. It was all to curb the proliferation of delivery systems for potential nuclear weapons, and I think that has succeeded. Ukraine inherited these capabilities from the soviet union, as did most former soviet states, but outside of these, the 9 nuclear capable states, and some (former) regional powers (Saudi Arabia, Iran, Syria, South Korea, Taiwan and Egypt, bigger EU countries), most countries don't possess missiles with ranges above 300 km
 
Ballysack said:
Ehh, I wouldn't say so to be honest. Most countries still don't posses missiles with ranges beyond 300 km and warhead sizes above 500 kg. There's a reason why China and Russia export their kalibr (club) and YJ-12 (CM-302) (just to give two examples) with much lowered ranges than their non-export counter parts, even if it's not a particularly difficult capability to develop. It was all to curb the proliferation of delivery systems for potential nuclear weapons, and I think that has succeeded. Ukraine inherited these capabilities from the soviet union, as did most former soviet states, but outside of these, the 9 nuclear capable states, and some (former) regional powers (Saudi Arabia, Iran, Syria, South Korea, Taiwan and Egypt, bigger EU countries), most countries don't possess missiles with ranges above 300 km
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Such exports are yet another reason why it's pointless (not the reason I was thinking of but nonetheless). I mean if I sell a car with a 600 mile range with 5L of fuel in it, does that then make it a 40 mile range car? Even if it's difficult to refuel that car/missile, I've still exported the technology nonetheless if someone is bothered to open it up.

Then you have smuggling and also some states you mentioned who aren't a party to the MTCR and have already armed the mentally ret... err.. gifted with such missiles.
 
Forest Green said:
Such exports are yet another reason why it's pointless (not the reason I was thinking of but nonetheless). I mean if I sell a car with a 600 mile range with 5L of fuel in it, does that then make it a 40 mile range car? Even if it's difficult to refuel that car/missile, I've still exported the technology nonetheless if someone is bothered to open it up.
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MTCR explicitly recognized and barred such transfers. Likewise missiles with heavy warheads that would exceed MTCR range limits with a lighter one.

But as noted, Ukraine isn't subject to MTCR for several reasons. Most obvious is that they have already demonstrated the ability to make missiles in these range/payload classes already.
 
TomS said:
MTCR explicitly recognized and barred such transfers. Likewise missiles with heavy warheads that would exceed MTCR range limits with a lighter one.
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It did? So how come Kalibr? It's just a different version of the INF, doomed to fail.
TomS said:
But as noted, Ukraine isn't subject to MTCR for several reasons. Most obvious is that they have already demonstrated the ability to make missiles in these range/payload classes already.
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Agreed on that. I mean, they made the RT-23 and R-36 as far as that goes.
 
Forest Green said:
It did? So how come Kalibr? It's just a different version of the INF, doomed to fail.
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Because MCTR was about keeping the poors (like North Korea) from developing ICBMs. And it worked well enough at that, given how long it took Best Korea to develop long range missiles.
 
https://twitter.com/x/status/2075661833826955442
View: https://x.com/TheAviationist/status/2075661833826955442?s=20


UK to Lead $50 Billion European Effort for Deep Precision Strike Missile​

https://theaviationist.com/2026/07/10/uk-deep-precision-strike-missile/
The United Kingdom announced on Jul. 8, 2026 at the NATO summit in Ankara that it will lead a $50 billion (£37bn) European initiative to develop long-range precision strike missiles. The capability, to be developed over 10 years, satisfies the need to hit with pinpoint accuracy targets at distances between 300 km and to 2,000 km, bolstering deterrence across the Allies.
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It must be noted that the UK is also working with Germany on another Deep Precision Strike (DPS), under the Trinity House agreement, to develop stealth and hypersonic weapons with ranges exceeding 2,000 km. The UK is also poised to join the United States and Australia in the Precision Strike Missile (PrSM) Programme.
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Looking forward to see what happens in regards to the hypersonic missile, Europe currently lags behind both the US and Russia in this area of developing hypersonic missiles so anything that comes from the joint German and UK program will be good for both countries.
 
The UK does not have ICBM's at all, the last proper nuclear missile of any range was the Blue Streak which was not in the same league as the current ICBM's being a medium range missile instead. The UK will just have to make do with the Stratus for now, it would be good if the UK could put a nuclear warhead into the Stratus as well as a conventional variant.
 
Assuming this actually is a spread of ballistic and cruise missiles (subsonic and supersonic), and that the systems must be ITAR free. It imposes significant costs on establishing supply chains for components and production spread across Europe.
 
FighterJock said:
The UK does not have ICBM's at all, the last proper nuclear missile of any range was the Blue Streak which was not in the same league as the current ICBM's being a medium range missile instead. The UK will just have to make do with the Stratus for now, it would be good if the UK could put a nuclear warhead into the Stratus as well as a conventional variant.
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Or could work with France on ArianeGroup's B2500 MRBM and put a nuke on that.
 
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