Divisional Air Defense System (DIVAD / DIVADS) Proposals

[iwantmoresources]

The York was designed to utilize a sensor-fused round that Bofors was putting into the market and due to the M42s being beloved by army troops during Vietnam, the US Army wanted a SPAAG that can do infantry support in a pinch.

May I ask what that sensor-fused ammunition was? 3P ammunition seems too advanced for that time.

 

[yeetmahboi]

Guess it's this one

40mm L/70 HE-PFPXM822 Fuse

It should be the M766: The round was in use with the M247 “Sgt York” AA system. They got pahased out and the ammunition got disposed of. The projectiles around are likely the left overs from this. The fuzes are basically all gone since they usually get burned in special furnaces. This would...

forum.cartridgecollectors.org

 

[iwantmoresources]

Guess it's this one

40mm L/70 HE-PFPXM822 Fuse

It should be the M766: The round was in use with the M247 “Sgt York” AA system. They got pahased out and the ammunition got disposed of. The projectiles around are likely the left overs from this. The fuzes are basically all gone since they usually get burned in special furnaces. This would...

forum.cartridgecollectors.org

So it's a standard proximity fuse, no time detonation mechanism?

 

[GruntFox]

I have not yet read that, but now it has my attention

I'll warn you, it's a ruthless depiction of warfare and requires certain suspensions of disbelief to accept (remember, it was made during the period when the idea whose summary is 'air power uber alles' was prevalent, even though it never was viable in the first place), but great reads if you can power through some stories (though the interrogation one is something that I can't power through, its far too viseral for me).

So it's a standard proximity fuse, no time detonation mechanism?

Basically, they shrank the proximity fuse* from something only viable in anything 75mm or bigger into a pretty standard 40mm anti-air round via the power of proper transistors.

Nowadays, such a fuse can easily fit into a 30mm, which is what the Stryker Dragoon is using as part of its ammo load.

EDIT:
* Please note that when the US first developed these things in WW2, they basically made them at the top of the 'prevent from reverse engineering' list. Where it used to take hundreds or thousands of rounds to kill a fighter, the ol' 76mm 55 cal Autos that this was initially paired with turned it into a few dozen... at most. They did it by literally shrinking a radar set into a 76mm or bigger round.

 

[iwantmoresources]

I'll warn you, it's a ruthless depiction of warfare and requires certain suspensions of disbelief to accept (remember, it was made during the period when the idea whose summary is 'air power uber alles' was prevalent, even though it never was viable in the first place), but great reads if you can power through some stories (though the interrogation one is something that I can't power through, its far too viseral for me).

Okay, thanks for the warning. I will look into it though.

Basically, they shrank the proximity fuse* from something only viable in anything 75mm or bigger into a pretty standard 40mm anti-air round via the power of proper transistors.

When you remember that transistors were still quite large in the late 70s/early 80s even when put onto a printed circuit board, it does look quite impressive.

Nowadays, such a fuse can easily fit into a 30mm, which is what the Stryker Dragoon is using as part of its ammo load.

30 mm seems to me like the smallest round that would make sense with a proximity fuse.

EDIT:
* Please note that when the US first developed these things in WW2, they basically made them at the top of the 'prevent from reverse engineering' list. Where it used to take hundreds or thousands of rounds to kill a fighter, the ol' 76mm 55 cal Autos that this was initially paired with turned it into a few dozen... at most. They did it by literally shrinking a radar set into a 76mm or bigger round.

I know. A 76 mm can have quite the area of effect, and shrinking the radar set to fit into a 76 with pretty much all electronics being vacuum tubes at the time was very impressive, especially considering that vacuum tubes don’t like being accelerated with the force of a high velocity cannon.

 

[Grey Havoc]

From October of 1970:
FINAL REPORT
A PARAMETRIC STUDY OF THE ADVANCED FORWARD AREA AIR DEFENSE WEAPON SYSTEM (AFAADS)
VOLUME I -SYSTEMS ANALYSIS

 

[iwantmoresources]

I found this image in a YouTube video. Does anyone have the document that it was taken from? The Creator of the video did not link it anywhere.

 

[skylancer-3441]

APG66 | PDF | General Dynamics F 16 Fighting Falcon | Radar

The airborne radar originally designed for the F-16 A / B aircraft is described here. Applications include the u.s. Customs where the radar was used for locating drug traffic, the Japanese F-4 and various shipboard and helicopters systems. A second generation APG-66 is being developed for the...

www.scribd.com

 

[Christopher Wang]

 

[RAP]

Some info from a GD presentantion.

 

[iwantmoresources]

Some info from a GD presentantion.

Do you have the presentation itself or just those images?

 

[RAP]

I have the entire document but did not scan the whole thing. Part of it is information on GD.

 

[thanos.massias]

There was also the towed DIVAD proposal, the only reference to which I have is the photo below, scanned from a magazine by a friend of mine. Unfortunately, I can't remember where he found it.

Westinghouse Defense advertisement.

Army

www.google.gr

 

[thanos.massias]

LADS (Light Air Defense System or Lightweight Air Defense System) was a proposed towed version of Sgt. York.

Army Air Defense Operations

www.google.gr

 

[thanos.massias]

I am not sure how this LADS relates to the Light Air Defense System (LADS) SHORAD weapon system intended to protect the division's priority assets. Under the latter, two prototypes were tested to meet the objective design: the Vulcan Wheeled Carrier (VWC) and the Pedestal Mounted Stinger (PMS)—also known as the HMMWV Mounted Stinger (HMS). Ultimately, the Army chose PMS (which became the AN/TWQ-1 Avenger) as the primary SHORAD system for all light forces.

DTIC ADA370233: Motorized Experience of the 9th Infantry Division, : Defense Technical Information Center : Free Download, Borrow, and Streaming : Internet Archive

In 1981 the Chief of Staff of the Army tasked the 9th Infantry Division to develop a high technology light division that could deploy rapidly and still engage...

archive.org

To further complicate things, other sources say LADS (which one?) was an earlier (relative to PMS) but highly similar proposal for an interim solution.

DTIC ADA207309: Lessons Learned from a Front-End Analysis Effort: The Case of Pedestal-Mounted Stinger (PMS) : Defense Technical Information Center : Free Download, Borrow, and Streaming : Internet Archive

The Manned Systems Group of the Army Research Institute for the Behavioral and Social Sciences is concerned with the application of the principles of MANPRINT...

archive.org

 

[thanos.massias]

The most probable explanation is that there was only one LADS program, and all three (VWC, PMS, and towed single-barrel Sgt. York)—and possibly other—systems were considered for it.

Department of Defense Appropriations

www.google.gr

 

[STGN]

Some info from a GD presentantion.

Thank you for sharing, I very much appreciate it, that is a great find! I would love to see all the pages associated with the presentation!

 

[RAP]

Some more pages scanned from the GD presentation.

 

[jsport]

The most probable explanation is that there was only one LADS program, and all three (VWC, PMS, and towed single-barrel Sgt. York)—and possibly other—systems were considered for it.

Department of Defense Appropriations

www.google.gr

View attachment 785176

an absolutely AMAZING FIND sir, most appreciated Sir. Too bad there are so few LADS depictions available, and not w/ twins + derivative Stinger. on a single platform. .

 

[iwantmoresources]

Would it have been viable to use the M822 proxy rounds against munitions? If so, DIVAD could have been salvaged as an anti-munition program.

 

[STGN]

Would it have been viable to use the M822 proxy rounds against munitions? If so, DIVAD could have been salvaged as an anti-munition program.

Yes, the M822 was based on the Bofors PFHE MK.2 which was specifically tested against sea skimming missiles, the Exocet, and was able to trigger on it and defeat it. The Sgt. York was also able to tell missiles apart from jets so it was already a consideration to use it in that role.