Chinese aircraft carriers: Type 002 'Shandong', Type 003 'Fujian', Type 004

As i keep moaning, imo it was a mistake not to immediately lay down a repeat 003 at Dalian after Shandong was launched in 2017. Such a ship would been in sea trials by now. This way PLAN would have had 4 carriers definitely operational by 2030, instead of 3 (i can't see how 004 or the speculated 003A at Jiangnan could be operational by then at current building rate). As it is the gap between building Shandong and 004 was just wasted time/dock space imo.
 
this could prove helpful... @Nx4eu

G8kPAx4WMAAYY0S


https://twitter.com/x/status/2002148039503540481
View: https://x.com/Polar000077/status/2002148039503540481?s=20


PLA-watching really is more of a burden than a joy. (Edit: As it should be!)
 
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lancer21 said:
As i keep moaning, imo it was a mistake not to immediately lay down a repeat 003 at Dalian after Shandong was launched in 2017. Such a ship would been in sea trials by now. This way PLAN would have had 4 carriers definitely operational by 2030, instead of 3 (i can't see how 004 or the speculated 003A at Jiangnan could be operational by then at current building rate). As it is the gap between building Shandong and 004 was just wasted time/dock space imo.
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Laying down a follow-on to 003 immediately would probably have been a bit risky in terms of :
- whether a follow-on 003 pattern ship would have been the best choice for a follow-on carrier (yes, you'll get a carrier sooner, but given these things will have a service life of multiple decades, you have to balance urgency vs longevity and operating costs)
- whether they needed a follow-on carrier that urgently to begin with
- back then there also would have been risks of whether the rest of the airwing for 003 would have been judged to be ready by then either; it's only in hindsight at present that things like J-15T, J-35, KJ-600 have proven to be relatively stable and successful programs, but back in 2017 none of those aircraft had even made their first flights
- same goes for key subsystems like EM catapults

All in all, 003 and its associated subsystems and airwing probably had way too much risk back then for them to be comfortable laying down an immediate follow-on hull before all of the key items proved themselves and before the first hull was even launched.

Add to that the question of how urgently they viewed the need for carriers in the 2025-2030 era, and it's pretty understandable.
 
Blitzo said:
Laying down a follow-on to 003 immediately would probably have been a bit risky in terms of :
- whether a follow-on 003 pattern ship would have been the best choice for a follow-on carrier (yes, you'll get a carrier sooner, but given these things will have a service life of multiple decades, you have to balance urgency vs longevity and operating costs)
- whether they needed a follow-on carrier that urgently to begin with
- back then there also would have been risks of whether the rest of the airwing for 003 would have been judged to be ready by then either; it's only in hindsight at present that things like J-15T, J-35, KJ-600 have proven to be relatively stable and successful programs, but back in 2017 none of those aircraft had even made their first flights
- same goes for key subsystems like EM catapults
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A third Type 003 would be good to have, as that would give you all 3 hulls you need to keep 1 at sea at all times.
 
Scott Kenny said:
A third Type 003 would be good to have, as that would give you all 3 hulls you need to keep 1 at sea at all times.
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The question isn't about whether a second or third CATOBAR carrier would be useful, but whether a second or third 003 pattern carrier would be the best use of resources in the specific time frame that lancer21 was talking about (i.e.: laying down a second 003 carrier in 2017).

I'm saying it probably wouldn't be, in context of strategic PLAN drivers and other priorities for the 2020s, as well as the various subsystems and aircraft projects whose completion on time was far from guaranteed back then.
 
I thought the Chinese used conventional propulsion systems as opposed to nuclear propulsion for their aircraft carriers?
 
flyingcorsair said:
I thought the Chinese used conventional propulsion systems as opposed to nuclear propulsion for their aircraft carriers?
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Not this brand-new one.

They have been going for crawl-walk-run development. Crawl: use the ex-soviet hardware and build a copy. Walk: build the Type 003 conventional carriers. Run: build the Type 004 CVNs.

Nuclear carriers have a massive advantage in terms of how much aviation fuel they can carry.
 
lancer21 said:
As i keep moaning, imo it was a mistake not to immediately lay down a repeat 003 at Dalian after Shandong was launched in 2017. Such a ship would been in sea trials by now. This way PLAN would have had 4 carriers definitely operational by 2030, instead of 3 (i can't see how 004 or the speculated 003A at Jiangnan could be operational by then at current building rate). As it is the gap between building Shandong and 004 was just wasted time/dock space imo.
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003 are PLAN's Soryu and Hiryu. There's quite a lot to improve first time you design a carrier on your own.
 
It seems that 004 is likely to be launched next year, or at the latest, the year after. I wonder which coastal province this aircraft carrier will be named after—Guangdong or Jiangsu? From a historical perspective, Jiangsu might be more appropriate, but from an economic standpoint, Guangdong is also possible.
 
Next year for the launch of 004? That is extremely quick for the PLAN to be launching aircraft carriers SUPER=BUG, though I think that by the looks of things they have learned a lot from the Fujian.
 
Is that the 004 being constructed Nx4eu? If it is then I could see it being launched in the spring of next year if all goes well during construction.
 
Nah, it's a nuclear through deck container ship according to some "reputed" sources. Joking btw, just poking at those "sources" who keep insisting on that view (that it's not a carrier) even if reputed (properly this time) chinese sources said this is a carrier from day one. There seem to be serious expectation of 004 being launched in 2027, but we'll see. It's 100 years of PLA in 2027 so DL might work extra hard to try get it in the water for the anniversary.
 
Speaking of sizes, this table apparently show 004's specs. Separately someone did a rough measurement of the 004 being built and without the bulbous bow (yet to be installed) came to about 320 meters, which seems to correlate well with the table below.
1769793019217.png
 
Wait just a moment I just had a sanity check. I knew something felt wrong this entire time. The drydock is only 370m! that means what we have currently in the drydock is only 300m long. Not 320m!
 
Actually, there's no need to rush with the measurements and estimates. We expect to see the complete hull either this year or next, so it won't be too late to take measurements and do the calculations then.
 
SUPER=BUG said:
Actually, there's no need to rush with the measurements and estimates. We expect to see the complete hull either this year or next, so it won't be too late to take measurements and do the calculations then.
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That’s not even the problem, for some odd reason we can’t even agree upon the size of the dry dock, if I’m not mistaken it should only be 370m long, however people keep telling me it’s 400m! I’m very confused. IMG_0226.png
 

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