A piece of advice from long and painful experience with following Russian airliner international sales attempts (Il-96T, Tu-204-X20, SSJ100): Don't believe it until you see the aircraft in the livery. Never mind, don't believe it until actual entry into service...
The China cycle, providing China does not build a piece of crap, knock-off aircraft made from stolen foreign tech like a number of other things (electric cars, locomotives/trains, jeeps, etc). I do have to say one thing which is amazing, I bought a $600, 40-watt per channel Chinese tube stereo amplifier which is probably one of the best pieces of moderately priced audio equipment I had ever purchased, the build and sound quality are excellent, go figure.
Ryanair, Boeing’s largest customer in Europe, warns that tariff costs may cause it to look beyond its orderbook with the U.S. aircraft manufacturer.
aviationweek.com
Interesting outlook. It's a follow-up news to what has been being reported since around a month ago already. C919 EASA certification could come around late 2020s at earliest. Although it can't match 737 MAX range, it's enough to match Ryanair's current fleet of NGs. O'Leary is notorious for putting on a pressure/threat on Boeing whenever things go South at Boeing, and more so ever since the MAX debacle, but this time around his threats sound somewhat real. Moreso because COMAC is really around the corner. Without COMAC, I woukd have called it bluff since Airbus' backlog is extremely full and there's no real threat to Boeing of their order being replaced with 320 NEOs.
But when COMAC finally gets their EASA certification, I could see then offering a really lucrative package to Ryanair to secure a first big-name western operator, and better yet, takin them away from American poster child that is Boeing. Would be quite a humiliation.
Though in the same time we all know Ryanair's BM. There is a real low chance of them buying anything other than 737s , since it woukd mean a complete revamp of their aircraft operations. Maybe the Chinese coukd make their deal so lucrative that additional costs incured by operaring two types is still undercut by the discounts, but I'd think that woukd be highly unlikely.
But when COMAC finally gets their EASA certification, I could see then offering a really lucrative package to Ryanair to secure a first big-name western operator, and better yet, takin them away from American poster child that is Boeing. Would be quite a humiliation.
by the late 2020s the C919 will be almost obsolete, add the fact it has american subsystems, this aircraft will need lots of orders, but not with subsidies by Chinese airliners owned by the Chinese government, technology in airliners can not go along without sales.
Not even Embraer can compete with Boeing, and they sell to companies all over the world without subsidies.
by the late 2020s the C919 will be almost obsolete, add the fact it has american subsystems, this aircraft will need lots of orders, but not with subsidies by Chinese airliners owned by the Chinese government, technology in airliners can not go along without sales.
There are already too many YT slops being posted on this website. It doesn't take a genius to know that Dassault Mercure or Lockheed Tristar were commerical failures.
That's why I'm talking about deal sweetners, as COMAC is government owned.
Weird comparison when they don't even compete in the same market segment.
There are already too many YT slops being posted on this website. It doesn't take a genius to know that Dassault Mercure or Lockheed Tristar were commerical failures.
So making a civilian aircraft is driven by profits, lower costs and safety.
But R&D is very high, so most nation that make aircraft will go for small projects or will become risk partners,
Spain for example only produces a few parts of the A-321
not even France or England produce every thing, so that become politics, but in order to manufacture, few nations can build truly large aircraft.
So larger aircraft need lots of R&D partners, most nations will opt to buy foreign aircraft, not by lack of technology, since any company can buy subsystems, the problem is profits.
Where I was working I saw ATR-72 carrying only 5 passengers in few flights, tell me do you think they will recover the investment?
The reality no aircraft program can survive without profits, and profits are dependent upon politics in great part, Spain will prefer buy Airbus or even Boeing since Spanish companies make parts for both companies and their subsystems, Spain will not buy MS-21s since there is no industrial participation, So UAC has to depend in Russian carriers to buy their airplanes.
What are trying to say here? Ryanair is a VLCC, HQed in Ireland that operates in Europe. If politics was the main problem, and the fact that COMAC not being European is the problem, they would've transitioned to AB like Easyjet did. What you said makes zero sense. For Ryanair the only thing matters is economics. Also, no jeed to assume people don't know what you know. It is a well known fact a large number of COMAC aircraft components are manufactured in the west, especially by US suppliers. They are getting certified in EASA with relative ease as a result. Unless US suddenly decides to block aviation components shipment to China altogether all of the sudden, not a problem. And EU has way less problems dealing with the Chinese.
What are trying to say here? Ryanair is a VLCC, HQed in Ireland that operates in Europe. If politics was the main problem, and the fact that COMAC not being European is the problem, they would've transitioned to AB like Easyjet did. What you said makes zero sense. For Ryanair the only thing matters is economics. Also, no jeed to assume people don't know what you know. It is a well known fact a large number of COMAC aircraft components are manufactured in the west, especially by US suppliers. They are getting certified in EASA with relative ease as a result. Unless US suddenly decides to block aviation components shipment to China altogether all of the sudden, not a problem. And EU has way less problems dealing with the Chinese.
well to finalize I will just say, if C919 does not get private owners, a few aircraft sold will not make a difference.
C919 has Leap engine C which are downgraded engines I doubt if sanctions are applied that will make a difference, they need lots of sales, and they will get a certification for their aircraft when Airbus has much better aircraft, same will be in the USA.
Embraer has been able to enter markets because some of the owners are USA citizens, has plenty of western subsystems, Brazil will not be hostile to the USA or EU, but China has a trade war.
Good luck, but without sales all these C929 or C393 are dreams, the more years that pass, the more obsolete C919 becomes and as MS-21 the use of Chinese components means longer development and more money spent, so they need more sales, and buying aircraft is also a political alignment we like it or not aircraft business is also a protectionist market, there is not real free market.
well to finalize I will just say, if C919 does not get private owners, a few aircraft sold will not make a difference.
C919 has Leap engine C which are downgraded engines I doubt if sanctions are applied that will make a difference, they need lots of sales, and they will get a certification for their aircraft when Airbus has much better aircraft, same will be in the USA.
Embraer has been able to enter markets because some of the owners are USA citizens, has plenty of western subsystems, Brazil will not be hostile to the USA or EU, but China has a trade war.
Good luck, but without sales all these C929 or C393 are dreams, the more years that pass, the more obsolete C919 becomes and as MS-21 the use of Chinese components means longer development and more money spent, so they need more sales, and buying aircraft is also a political alignment we like it or not aircraft business is also a protectionist market, there is not real free market.
Mate, before throwing some gibberish, first read what is being discussed before your comment :
We are talking about Ryanair, who has no government ties. They are not a flag carrier, nor an airline situated in the US. It's a private VLCC HQed in Ireland, operating for short-haul European routes. Ireland has no significant industrial ties with the European and American aviation industries either.
COMAC is on their way to receive EASA type certification around 2030. I have been talking about potential deal sweetners that would counteract the losses incured by inefficient operations casued by operating C919, since COMAC is state owned.
COMAC is already selling tons of aircraft in China alone, because the domestic demand for those planes are huge. Also, EU is not as dumb as some people and are very much aware that Chinese airlines are their big customers. There's a reason EASA have signed a bilateral agreement with CAAC. Moreover, considering Airbus backlogs, there is currently no real chance of Ryanair transitioning to Airbus in the short- to mid-term.
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