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Argentinian Never-Were Warship Designs and Proposals

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"Between 1908 and 1909* Argentina received from the British shipyards: 67 designs of battleships and 77 designs of destroyers". o_O
*We should interpret, also, that it is between the years 1907 and 1910.
Source: Destéfani, Laurio. “Historia Marítima Argentina. Tomo IX”. Page 133.
 

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I will try to get you diagrams of them, but I doubt that these are preserved in Argentina.

On the other hand, between 1924 and 1925, Argentina received 27 cruiser offers, 27 destroyer offers and 24 submarine offers from shipyards in Spain, United States, France, Great Britain, Italy, Japan and Sweden.
Montenegro, G. "El Armamentismo Naval Argentino". Page 121.
I will also try to get you these diagrams.
 

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1.908 "Germania" design for Argentina



12 x 305 + 16 x 150 + 8 x 57 + 4 x 570

230 mm / 25 mm

160 m x 26 m

21.000 t / 29.000 shp / 21 k
 

Tzoli

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Do you have that image in higher resolution and do you know the year as well as dimensions?
Or it's a design from this table?
But interesting, German designed cage mast.
Looks like a modified 6 turreted and lengthened Kaiser
 

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Do you have that image in higher resolution and do you know the year as well as dimensions?
Or it's a design from this table?
But interesting, German designed cage mast.
Looks like a modified 6 turreted and lengthened Kaiser
Like i said year is 1.908, design is from Friedrich Krupp Germaniawerft for Argentina.
Hope this images help:





2 or 3 of this ship "should be able to fight the Minas Gerais class".
For any questions I will be at your disposal
Regards
 

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Interesting Vickers submitted cage masts, never seen this on a Vickers design before.
Were cage masts specifically requested in the Argentine requirements?
 

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Interesting Vickers submitted cage masts, never seen this on a Vickers design before.
Were cage masts specifically requested in the Argentine requirements?
The Argentine commission - secretly - had already chosen Fore River. Designs like 428 were received to steal ideas. That is why the commission changed the requirements and filtered competitors to win the American company.
 

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Tzoli

¿Did Japan tried to build the Rivadavia class? I have no info about Japan in the competition.
 

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No they did not. A-47 was from 1911 and had no connection with Rivadavia expect it has the same turret layout, and would had armed with 356mm cannons
 

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The Argentine commission - secretly - had already chosen Fore River. Designs like 428 were received to steal ideas. That is why the commission changed the requirements and filtered competitors to win the American company.
[/QUOTE]
That's what I thought but wanted to make sure of the timing, i.e. that it wasn't a proposal made before the Fore River design was chosen and the subsequent industrial espionage occurred.
 

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The Argentine commission - secretly - had already chosen Fore River. Designs like 428 were received to steal ideas. That is why the commission changed the requirements and filtered competitors to win the American company.
That's what I thought but wanted to make sure of the timing, i.e. that it wasn't a proposal made before the Fore River design was chosen and the subsequent industrial espionage occurred.
[/QUOTE]
By 1.908 the main lines of the ship were already defined (echelon, 12x305, etc.) by the argentine office in London. It must be an overcoming version of Minas Gerais.
By the end of that year, Fore River & Bethlehem was the association that charged less for tons and proposed a shorter construction time.
Compared:
- Italian companies after the American offered the best price, proposed to build in a short time, but did not ensure the availability of weapons (by armstrong boycott) or quality of their engines.
- British companies sold at prices that were too expensive, with long terms and did not ensure a high-level technology transfer.
- The German companies cost more expensive than the English, but they offered shorter terms and their business, ultimately, went through preventing the sale from being British.
- The French companies had a lower value than the British and the German, with shorter terms as well, but the offended ships were not very interesting ("meh").
By 1.909 the designs were much better than those of previous years. The tender continued with higher standards, to carry out this industrial "espionage", both by Argentina and the United States.
By 1.910 the contracts for the construction of Rivadavia were signed. The honors of the other nations would be restored with the purchase of destroyers to Germany, France and the United Kingdom.
 

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More info about Rivadavia´s designs:

This is not the Real Rivadavia (Jane´s 1910):

I have the intuition that it is the diagram before the last design made by the Fore River circa 1908-9.

The last design offered by the American company during 1909 was 27,940 tons, 22.5 knots, 12 inchs belt (source: Boletin Centro Naval Argentino).
This data is quite similar with the following diagram (Jane´s c. 1925):

But there are still differences with what we know with the real Rivadavia.

Tzoli, I would really appreciate it if you ever do Rivadavia and these designs with your art.
 
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