Sikorsky X-Wing Projects

jsport said:
quellish said:
jsport said:
whatever happened?
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Both vehicles crashed, dramatically.
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Thank you for the answer, did not know about the second crash.
however, unsatisfying it is not to know why the technology was not furthered. Such a radical technology/capability is going to have many hiccups but the payoff may have been worth it.
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That particular airframe design was fatally flawed. Both crashed due to an uncontrollable pitch movement, and the second one was supposed to have fixed that.
 
F-14D said:
LHX was never proposed for the LHX competition. There were artists' concepts of how an LHX sized X-Wing would look, but Sikorsky realized that since no one knew how to build one, the Army wasn't going to award the program to such a vehicle. It didn't help that the actual X-Wing rotor would also function as a homing beacon for IR missiles. Plus, once the LHX specifications were rewritten to exclude Tilt-Rotor, those exclusions would go quadruple for an X-Wing even if you could build one.
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How so? It was my understanding that the X-wing rotor just used compressor bleed air, not the exhaust stream. I'm not convinced that compressor bleed air would be any hotter than the friction of the blades through the air.
 
From Aviation Week, Feb. 6 1996:

DARPA SOUGHT STEALTHY ROTORCRAFT
02/06/96

The former Defense Advanced Research Projects Agency funded at least two secret rotorcraft programs during the 1980s, and at least one of them is still operating. They were low radar cross section technology demonstrators and did not have an operational mission.

The larger of the two was a secret version of the NASA/DARPA/Sikorsky X-Wing Rotor Systems Research Aircraft (RSRA), and it is not clear if a prototype ever flew. The unclassified RSRA X-Wing program was canceled in 1988 after several flights in only its fixed-wing mode (AW&ST Mar. 14, 1988, p. 15; Aug. 31, 1987, p. 23). However, DARPA's secret version of the X-Wing also run by Sikorsky-was a larger program than its unclassified cousin, according to sources familiar with both programs.

THE SMALL ROTORCRAFT is a McDonnell Douglas Helicopters project conducted with the renamed Advanced Research Projects Agency. Configuration details are sketchy, and it is not known if it uses the McDonnell Douglas no-tail-rotor (Notar) technology. More than one of the McDonnell Douglas craft may have been built, and flights are conducted in the restricted airspace of the Nellis AFB range. Tests include flying against radar sites to measure the rotorcraft's signature. The program is considered "extremely black," and the aircraft fly at night or out of sight of uncleared personnel during the day. Flights are scheduled to avoid spy satellite coverage.

It is not clear whether Bell participated in a DARPA stealth helicopter project. One expert noted that the teetering two-bladed rotor used on many Bell helicopters does not adapt itself to stealth. The clearance needed for teetering makes it difficult to closely nest the hub to a fuselage fairing, and the high blade loading is noisier and gives a larger, more visible, rotor diameter. However, Bell has developed helicopters aimed at the special operations market.

The secret X-wing was to use three enabling technologies for low radar signature. One was the X-wing itself. When the rotor was stopped for cruise flight in the "X" position, the 45-deg. angle of the blades reduced radar reflections in the forward aspect, though care had to be taken to prevent the 90-deg. blade intersection from acting as a retroreflector. Also, the stopped blades eliminated the telltale Doppler signature of a helicopter. Equally important, the fixed X-wing allowed for high speed, as retreating blade stall and high tip Mach numbers were eliminated. High speed was the goal of the "white-world" RSRA X-Wing program. Notar-like technology was the second key feature of the stealth X-wing. Eliminating the tail rotor reduces radar signature. However, the Sikorsky design did not use circulation control blowing on the boom itself for anti-torque boom lift, as McDonnell Douglas does with its Notar technology. Instead the stealth X-wing just had thrusters at the tail boom's tip. The RSRA X-wing had a conventional tail rotor.

THE THIRD TECHNOLOGY was an engine that could convert between turboshaft mode for helicopter operation and turbofan for cruise thrust. The convertible engine was a General Electric TF34 turbofan that was tested by the NASA Lewis Research Center (AW&ST Oct. 27, 1986, p. 21). For turboshaft operation, the fan's inlet and exit guide vanes were shut, closing air to the engine's bypass duct and increasing airflow directed through core. The secret aircraft was to use twin convertible TF34s, while the RSRA X-wing used two standard TF34s for thrust and two General Electric T58s for shaft power. The RSRA X-wing program provided an open method to develop the crucial X-wing technology, and provided cover for the broad nature of the classified effort. The white program could order parts for the black program, and vendors would be none the wiser.
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From Sharon Weinberger. “The Imagineers of War.” :

As DARPA’s black aircraft programs boomed in the 1980s, the agency would often announce a research program in aeronautics as a cover for building a secret military prototype aircraft. This enabled DARPA to award contracts and buy needed equipment without raising suspicion. Atkins described one example of what he called a “White World” program, meaning unclassified, that was run jointly with NASA. Yet the technology was also being looked at for secret military applications. “We built some full-scale models to see how we would militarize it,” said Atkins. The “black” project was a stealth rotorcraft.

The cover project was called the Rotor Systems Research Aircraft/ X-Wing, or RSRA, a “joint DARPA-NASA program that funded Sikorsky to design a hybrid of a helicopter and a fixed-wing aircraft. RSRA was a real program, but it was also a cover for one of DARPA’s more significant attempts to develop stealth helicopters. The “black” program involved taking “the rotor head off of the RSRA and putting it onto a stealth vehicle,” Atkins said. A helicopter’s rotor blades typically produce a Doppler shift. Those shifts are difficult to mask from radar, but it could be done, as DARPA learned with the X-Wing.
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RAP said:
This picture appeared earlier in this thread but this is a better copy.
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You should see the full-color version in APR issue V5N6:
https://www.aerospaceprojectsreview.com/pv5n6.htm

xwingarticle.jpg

https://www.aerospaceprojectsreview.com/pv5n6.htm
 
RAP said:
This picture appeared earlier in this thread but this is a better copy.
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Notice the (probably) single shaft driven anti-torque rotor helping also for the propulsion in rotorcraft mode.

The caption in @hesham post news extract is probably wrong.

(This is how I would have designed the Airbus Racer with a large chord rotor, just like here)
 
Sikorsky 1987 X-Wing art and the "Flying Stovepipe" built by Prof. Ian Cheeseman of the Univ. of Southampton, which inspired the Sikorsky X-wing.
 

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Projects from the mid-80s always remind me of those animated films I watched as a child, such as a jet-powered helicopter.However, the war in Ukraine showed that the highest level of survivability when there was a large concentration of air defense systems is precisely rotorcraft. The only difference is that the speed must be increased, but with it the weapons load, primarily for fighting drones like Shahid.
 
I know this is an old thread. I worked on this rotary wing/Coanda effect prototype rotary system that flew on the RSRA. As many things have yet be released, I can only say that the Coanda effect in the rotary wings did in fact fly on the RSRA and transition. I worked on the Hub with the explosive bolts to blow off the rotor in something went terribly wrong. I was a fast prototype master machinist and programmed 4,5 and 8 axis machines there. I designed all the fixtures, and wrote all the programs for the parts I made. I had the only job description that stated, "You are responsible for completion of all phases of any part given to you". That description eventually caused me to fall into a large milling center and break my neck and 2 thoracic discs, as the floor of Sikorsky was Oak on end. The Lusol coolant drained 55 gallons under the floor, which rose up, and through, causing me to slip and fall into a huge 4 axis machine head first, holding a no. 15 taper tool with a 10" long inch 2" diameter end mill, I was so worried about losing my hand, I did not realize that I lost my future. I have not yet seen things that I know about this aircraft released, so I cannot talk about them, as I cannot post about the Stealth helicopters used in the Bin Laden Raid. The amount of things I cannot post about is tied to my F.B.I. clearance, and obligations. My brother in law was an engineer at Sikorsky many years after I had to leave. He designed the first halve of the F35 jet engines @ Pratt and Whitney, he still does that kind of work, as I guided him into Mechanical Engineering and he does not know what I know. Everything is compartmentalized.

I saw the completed center hub for the X-wing, and it is like nothing described here. Lots of Titanium, inside it, and ceramics, which I specialized for making tooling to cut it.

I am designing a 3D model of an X-wing type craft that is posted in the first images, as I have in house drawings that were not released to the public, but I was given them, as I made an X--wing out of paper, and threw it. It did glide 100' feet, and hit an engineer in the chest. He gave me the paper model, and asked if I would make him one. I gave him the model. I do my own 3D modeling through Rhino8.

I just want to post, even in this old thread, many things are still secret, and many assumptions posted are disinformation, purposely done.
 
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zathros said:
I just want to post, even in this old thread, many things are still secret, and many assumptions posted are disinformation, purposely done.
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Welcome aboard Zathros,and we want to see any new,please go head.
 
I will post results of my 3D prototype. This is a longer time project. I machined a lot of parts for the X-Wing rotor head, which sat next to my 4 axis milling machine. That head was around 4 feet in diameter, two tiers, about 3 feet high. Imagine empty steel sewing bobbins, two stacked on each other. I would make parts, and engineers would do a "fit" to see if it was close enough. That lasted 8 months. When the hub was complete, they allowed me to see the hub, without it's covers, while being boxed to be fitted into the RSRA. Since none of these pictures have been posted, I have no idea where the 2nd hub went. Not one person here has described the way the Coanada slits how and where they cut into the blades. The pressure of the air made a bigger air void. I theorize this was for gyroscopic precession, and for the retreating, and advancing rotors to control and match them aerodynamically. The pilot who flew the RSRA told me they had successfully transitioned, now it was moving on to a new phase.

The project was cancelled, but just like the LHX, it's all disinformation. The experience from the LHX lives in the F35. There is stuff being made, from my experience, the public around 30 years behind. I offer this up, there was no heat generated from the rotary wing as the COANDA effect cooled any heat down immensely, and the vanes inside that head, and other components, meant that helicopter produced the heat signature similar to that of all the helicopters.
The Bin-Laden helicopters, well, I can say nothing about that. I am 68 years old. I worked on making parts for the Advancing Blade concept know as the "ABC". I saw her last flight, the nose was about 8 inches from the airfield, and it flew at around 150 mph, in that configuration and attitude for around 10 minutes, like a Humming bird, the flew almost vertically from that position till it was out of sight, came back, landed and was rolled into the hanger. The round fuselage caused many problems, as the down force would wrap around it, that's why you don't see rounded bottom helicopters. I felt very sad, but the X-2 brought me great joy, when I saw it's progenitor and knew I helped in making the X-2 a reality. I still have my official Sikorsky factory bad. I wrote over 1000 programs there. I made the first ESS fittings from ingots of aluminum, establishing the grain and datum points. I was there, as you get older, past memories get clearer. I suffer from having a Savant memory (Psychiatrically diagnosed), I still remember Hurricane Camille, and I was two years old, it was 1959. it's hard when you remember everything, you have to let it flow to it's conclusion to let it go, and most of all remember the out come, which completes the Psychiatric incidents. you can see a person, remember why you are mad at them, but remembering the outcome heals the memory. This happens in a nano second.

My time at Sikorsky and working at Perkin-Elmer, making parts for the Hubble Space Telescope, my friend ground the lens. He came over my house extremely burned out. Yes, we smoked a few bowls, then he told me the lens was off. They used an in house built contraption, instead of having an outside party inspect it's optics. I had to keep my mouth shut. My F.B.I. clearance was to make very clear to me what I was getting into. I am a loyal American citizen. working at Sikorsky Aircraft left me physically disabled. I have an intraethical pump going into my spine for pain management. I don't regret a day of what I did there. I feel proud, as I had a unique job description, the only person out of 13K people to have that. When I ordered an end mill of my design to be made, tooling had to do it, no questions asked. Some things, I will carry out when I pass, which will be a long way off, as I have many miles to put on my Kawasaki ZZR1200. I'm a 1%er when it comes to motorcycles. I own three. I am also a pilot of general aviation 4 passenger planes.

No American has the right to know of everything that is going on, it doesn't work that way. I started doing 3D printing in 1983, it was extremely top secret I made the most odd parts, and I still and will never know what they were for. :)
 
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The "White " project was to prove the translation. I find it strange that all the posts I read here do not mention the Coanda effect, or how it was employed. I won't go into that. The translation from rotary to static, was done in both directions. This is hearsay, but the RSRA pilot told they they had a successful translation over Long Island Sound. He did not say in what direction, and the area I was in, I was only in for a very short time for a "file to fit"fix, as they called it. As the type of machinist I was, I could take a file to a finished part, and knock off a couple .001's to make it slide in easier. Mechanics were not allowed to do such things, and the finish had to match the machined finish, what a p.i.t.a. that was.

As far as weapons, the public in general is 30 years behind. I hesitate to talk about that. It is said that we used 20% of our missile stockpile. This missiles were going to be retired, or put in storage. So why not use them? When a country starts killing their own people by the 10s of thousands a month, maybe a few bombs, and blocking all their ports might be in order. When a country that can't even make a refinery to make the gas out of all the oil they have, but are struggling to make nuclear weapons, bomb them.

I don't know if such a post will cause problems. I think war is generally stupid, if not done properly, too many innocent people die. I hate war. My brother is dying from all the cancer from agent orange, and he is dying a rough death. War sucks, but letting a country that kills their own people by the 10s of thousands in one month, treats their women like crap, and launches missiles indiscriminately has sewn the wind, and will get the whirlwind, if you know what I mean.

Did you know the "MH60 SeaHawk" can easily carry a nuclear tipped torpedo? One little helicopter, that will make you sterile, if you get within 5 feet of it's front while the radar is activated. The Air Force Sea Hawks also fire Hellfire missiles, along with the torpedo. The MH60 is rarely in the news, but it can loiter around a very long time, especially if ESS fittings are mounted. A Blackhawk, Island hopping along the northern Atlantic, with both ESS wings and extra fuel tanks can easily cross the Atlantic. If set up with the air to air refueling booms, it never has too land. It's been done. :)

View: https://youtu.be/2usM7_SEHGc?si=Zye7u8Bd07_kPODq


MH60.jpg
 
Scott Kenny said:
What nuclear torpedo?

The US hasn't had a nuclear-tipped torpedo since the Mk45 ASTOR, removed from service in 1977.
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Wow, I don't think I'm going to post here anymore. I was there 10 years after 1977. Well, I guess disinformation works, and you really have no business knowing what is actually going on (most people don't in reality), as in these projects, secrecy is paramount, but if you believe in what you just posted, I have a bridge I'd like to sell you. No nuclear tipped torpedoes, wow. Bye!!
 
zathros said:
Wow, I don't think I'm going to post here anymore. I was there 10 years after 1977. Well, I guess disinformation works, and you really have no business knowing what is actually going on (most people don't in reality), as in these projects, secrecy is paramount, but if you believe in what you just posted, I have a bridge I'd like to sell you. No nuclear tipped torpedoes, wow. Bye!!
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If you don't know the difference between a nuclear depth charge and a nuclear tipped torpedo, I don't think anything else you've said is accurate, either.
 

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