Sukhoi Su-57 flight testing and development

Eurasiantimes lol

Either way, the market for the Su-57 lies in the MENA and SEA region. While India keeps the desire to fill the role with an indigenous design, one day, possibly, maybe.

And it's not like this has been clear for well over a decade by now as well. So not exactly news.
 
There's no economies of scale when you're only making a dozen aircraft a year. even two dozen aircraft per year.

12 aircraft a month and now you're getting some scale going.

I do expect the RusAF to eventually get about 425 or so Su57s, 1-for-1 replacing all their various Flankers. Not counting any potential replacement of Su34s, up to another ~160 there. For replacing Su34s I think I'd expect the two-seat Su57, with further upgraded stealth.
 
Scott Kenny said:
For replacing Su34s I think I'd expect the two-seat Su57, with further upgraded stealth.
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The Su-57 won't replace the Su-34. UCAVs of various sizes, cost factors and capabilities will. The Su-57 will just operate in the same framework as these systems and provide guidance and control in some cases.
 
EmoBirb said:
The Su-57 won't replace the Su-34. UCAVs of various sizes, cost factors and capabilities will. The Su-57 will just operate in the same framework as these systems and provide guidance and control in some cases.
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Moreover, they still have a long way to go before they even begin replacing the Su-34, as it has performed well in the war and they continue to procure it. Within the VKS, the Su-34 broadly fills the same role as the F-15E/EX, hauling outsized payloads. It will continue to perform that role well into the 2050s... I'd honestly even expect a life-extension program down the line, as I suspect such bomb trucks will remain highly valuable well into the 2070s...

They aren't going anywhere; they'll simply be increasingly complemented by less and less observable/targetable wingmen (manned & unmanned)...
 
EmoBirb said:
The Su-57 won't replace the Su-34. UCAVs of various sizes, cost factors and capabilities will. The Su-57 will just operate in the same framework as these systems and provide guidance and control in some cases.
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I still think there will be a few Su-57s will be there to act as controllers. And it probably won't be a 1-for-1 replacement of Su34s.

And then those will likely end up with improved stealth so that they can get deeper into the IADS with the CCAs before turning them loose.
 
RadicalDisconnect said:
So is it T-50 prototype or serial Su-57?
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If I may (after some time). My assumption, my thinking...

Official ( state/military) sources never mentioned it was Su-57 in fact ,only some TG-channels.This was something very interesting and unusual.

''Russia's Investigative Committee has opened a criminal investigation into possible violations of flight rules or pre-flight preparation procedures.''

FB wrote about that :

''Российское военное ведомство официально не сообщало о крушении Су-57.''

''The Russian military department has not officially reported the crash of the Su-57.''

Source: https://lenta.ru/news/2026/07/23/long-su57/

Now some details.What we could see? The burning wreckage of an unknown aircraft and one parachute with the pilot. If it really was Su-57, which in fact ? Su-57D? Of course it wasn't, there are pics of it from several days ago.Serial/operational from one of oper. units ? Very unlikely. Closest air base is Kubinka with its 237 TsPAT or 'aircraft demonstration centre'. Prototype Su-57E '509 blue' as the flying demonstrator of the export version E ? Hm,could be... Maybe we will see him on the pics just like 'D' soon. Several days after what happened on 23 July ,Indian Secretary of defence R.K. Singh announced ,India has no intention of buying the Su-57E. Is this all related to each other? Really don't know and honestly hope it wasn't Su-57 at all.

About the decision of Indians. Yes,honestly it is blow for the Su-57E because only Algeria will get that 12 pcs.
 
paralay said:
Didn’t they tell you that it was one of the prototypes?
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Sources like some TG-channels mentioned it was Su-57 but MoD mentioned some combat trainer.That was confusing indeed.

flateric said:
Why MoD would care of prototype on the UAC balance sheets crash and make statements?
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Of course, MoD is not the owner of the OKB Sukhoi flying and static prototypes.
 
Erdosain said:
Sixth-generation aircraft technologies will be tested on the two-seat Su-57D
https://topwar.ru/288076-dvuhmestny...-tehnologij-samoleta-shestogo-pokolenija.html
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6th gen? Maybe but let us remind what they achieved with the Su-57M prototype ( 511 blue, called "The President" ,first prototype of the OKR 'Megapolis'- project ) several years ago.As Sergey Bogdan told ,he flew in several test flights and as he mentioned, he did almost nothing at all during those test flights.So they achieved completely autonomous ''pilotless'' flights.

Is that one of the tactical and technical request for the 6th gen fighter ? Of course it is.

View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AcBGsf4w8mk&t=4s
 
Squirrel said:
6th gen? Maybe but let us remind what they achieved with the Su-57M prototype ( 511 blue, called "The President" ,first prototype of the OKR 'Megapolis'- project ) several years ago.As Sergey Bogdan told ,he flew in several test flights and as he mentioned, he did almost nothing at all during those test flights.So they achieved completely autonomous ''pilotless'' flights.
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That is a topic for discussion in other threads, but mentions of a Russian 6th-generation aircraft are becoming increasingly frequent—even from figures like Badekha or Strelets.
It remains an open question whether the PAK DP program is even still active, but all indications suggest that the new generation will be conceptually closer to the J-36 than to NGAD. However, the full picture likely won't emerge until the coming decade.
 
TomcatViP said:
Interesting. Is there any rumor of a joint Sino-Russian 6th Gen program?
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No and there won't be. Conceptually close doesn't mean joint development. It simply alludes to the notion that what Russia wants out of a notional next generation fighter is more in line with what China prioritized, rather than what the US prioritized in the NGAD program.

Another reflection of that is that both China and Russia are seemingly developing a preference for larger, more formidable UAVs, while the American CCA program seeks to produce low cost, low capability systems in volume. Both the US and China conducted simulated war games to arrive at their respective conclusion.
 
Geo said:
It remains an open question whether the PAK DP program is even still active, but all indications suggest that the new generation will be conceptually closer to the J-36 than to NGAD. However, the full picture likely won't emerge until the coming decade.
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PAK DP will remain an active program unless another solution to replace the MiG-31 has been found (and no, as has been established at length, neither Su-35 nor Su-57 are sufficient in that role). As for next generation developments, talks first emerged basically as T-50 first took flight, or shortly afterwards. However something that also goes just as far back is military and industrial figures emphasizing that before any serious work could take place, the necessary technologies would have to be brought to maturity first. You'd imagine that over 10 years later a great deal of resources and money would have been spend to mature several of these major technologies. So the discussion is now becoming more seriously as to how to go about that new development, getting government funding, subcontractors on board, the facilities set up.

Given that the US and China set the pace already, with China clearly ahead, it's no surprise that Russia is moving to throw their head into the ring. Given the proliferation and large scale political, military and industrial support for autonomous systems inside of Russia and rapid developments happening in that realm on an indigenous basis, it should be assumed that any notional Russian next generation fighter will lean extremely into the networked and manned/unmanned fusion side of things. And that also shouldn't be a surprise either, even pre-2022 was Russia keenly invested in autonomous and unmanned weapons systems of various weight and cost classes as well as using existing aircraft and simulations to develop software that can aid in such endeavours.

In that sense, yes, it'll most likely be closer to a stealthy and persistent command and control asset with a multifaceted sensor suite than to the absolute air superiority fighter. And for all it's aerobatic performance and kinematics, to which it often gets reduced by rather ignorant people, the Su-57 laid the foundation for that concept. A high altitude, long range, super cruiser that retains maneuverability even at high altitude with minimal input from aerodynamic control surfaces thanks to TVC, an aircraft which features a distributed radar array on top of direct infrared countermeasures, electronic countermeasures, electro-optical search and track, missile approach warning, you name it. This amped up to eleven and packaged in a more sophisticated airframe will be the basis for the next generation system of systems. And because of that, nobody should be surprised that Su-57D will serve as a testbed, one can assume J-20S filled a similar role at one stage of it's development.
 

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EmoBirb said:
PAK DP will remain an active program unless another solution to replace the MiG-31 has been found (and no, as has been established at length, neither Su-35 nor Su-57 are sufficient in that role).
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Silly question: could an avionics change make the Su57 sufficient?

New radars etc?
 
Scott Kenny said:
Silly question: could an avionics change make the Su57 sufficient?

New radars etc?
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Avionics are a major difference between the two types, but also one that's constantly changing. Both aircraft have received several avionics upgrades over their service life. Especially the MiG-31 had made leaps from it's initial avionics suite to what you find today in the newly modernized airframes.

The genuine hardware is the hurdle the Su-57 can't overcome, as of now. The MiG-31 flies higher, faster, longer. It's a persistent long range interceptor. The Su-57 is a networked, penetrating, multirole fighter. Even with the AL-51s you'd not arrive at a capability that's substantial enough of an upgrade to comfortably give up the MiG-31s. Because of that projects like the MiG 701 aimed at an even larger aircraft. The general desire is to have a large, persistent, long range, high altitude, high speed platform that can carry various payloads preferably internally (mostly to reduce drag). This later evolved into PAK DP, which added the requirement for some level of low observability. But generally speaking a clean sheet design is necessary to deliver an aircraft that can function as a genuine successor for the MiG-31 and not just as a substitute.
 
Scott Kenny said:
Okay, thank you!
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Mind you, that's simply down to the perceived need of having an aircraft in that specific role. Other countries simply use their air superiority fighters in that role or don't fill that role at all. So it's valid asking why the Su-57 doesn't replace the aging MiG-31 despite comparable performance metrics in some areas and newer avionics. But the Russian case is, as it is often, a very unique one and the Russian military views an aircraft in that role as a necessity. Thus something like PAK DP is required, and from what we know, still being pursued.

If anything, a potential Su-57 successor, in the manner we have talked about in recent replies here, may be able to finally reconcile both roles. Perhaps just differing from it's multirole version just by the systems it's deployed with (more heavily integrated into the medium and long range IADS, dedicated high speed, high end sensor suite equipped drones).

But it's beyond early to make even uneducated guesses on that front. The Russian next generation effort is currently about to enter the preliminary conceptual phase if people familiar with the matter are to be believed. After a rigorous campaign to push domestic subsystem development, manufacturing and material science to the point it becomes mature enough to get seriously to work and inform potential proposals with what's actually available or soon available.

Consequently the Su-57 is continuously upgraded to deliver some of the desired capabilities with regards to networking, unmanned teaming and sensor suite performance and coverage in the meantime. It's continuously being iterated upon, to squeeze more and more performance out of the entire system.
 
EmoBirb said:
Mind you, that's simply down to the perceived need of having an aircraft in that specific role. Other countries simply use their air superiority fighters in that role or don't fill that role at all. So it's valid asking why the Su-57 doesn't replace the aging MiG-31 despite comparable performance metrics in some areas and newer avionics. But the Russian case is, as it is often, a very unique one and the Russian military views an aircraft in that role as a necessity. Thus something like PAK DP is required, and from what we know, still being pursued.

If anything, a potential Su-57 successor, in the manner we have talked about in recent replies here, may be able to finally reconcile both roles. Perhaps just differing from it's multirole version just by the systems it's deployed with (more heavily integrated into the medium and long range IADS, dedicated high speed, high end sensor suite equipped drones).

But it's beyond early to make even uneducated guesses on that front. The Russian next generation effort is currently about to enter the preliminary conceptual phase if people familiar with the matter are to be believed. After a rigorous campaign to push domestic subsystem development, manufacturing and material science to the point it becomes mature enough to get seriously to work and inform potential proposals with what's actually available or soon available.

Consequently the Su-57 is continuously upgraded to deliver some of the desired capabilities with regards to networking, unmanned teaming and sensor suite performance and coverage in the meantime. It's continuously being iterated upon, to squeeze more and more performance out of the entire system.
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A responsibly written post.
 
EmoBirb said:
The genuine hardware is the hurdle the Su-57 can't overcome, as of now. The MiG-31 flies higher, faster, longer. It's a persistent long range interceptor.
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No. Higher and faster, yes, though value of that is rather limited in this day and age.
Mig-31 is not a persistent(loitering) interceptor (though obviously an improvement over mig-25), rather it's an alert one.
Su-57 endurance is higher, substantially so.
 
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Ainen said:
No. Higher and faster, yes, though value of that is rather limited in this day and age.
Mig-31 is not a persistent(loitering) interceptor (though obviously an improvement over mig-25), rather it's an alert one.
Su-57 endurance is higher, substantially so.
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Thing is that Su-57s main advantage aside from avionics is stealth over other aircraft in Russia. Drop tanks and aerial refueling negate that benefit, MiG-31 never relied on it. While the AL-41s are definitely more efficient and the MiG-31s airframe is optimized for high speed and high altitude operations, at subsonic cruise it has more staying power than most give it credit for. However part of why I put the future AL-51 into the foreground a bit in my previous post is that this engine will be significantly more efficient than either AL-41 or D-30, which should give the Su-57 better fuel economy throughout all flight regimes. But as I also said, that's just one aspect of the whole picture.
 
EmoBirb said:
While the AL-41s are definitely more efficient and the MiG-31s airframe is optimized for high speed and high altitude operations, at subsonic cruise it has more staying power than most give it credit for.
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Mig-31 listed ferry range is given with drop tanks. I.e. it's relatively mediocre as for heavy 4th generation jets, with and without them.
Su-57 ferry range is also with tanks (keep in mind when comparing to flankers and other foreign jets), but it's much higher with or without them.
 
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I thought the MiG-31 had a lot of internal fuel? What is its cruise range and flight profiles? Does it have more reach because it can fly higher than most fighters? It can punch from longer distances to no? It must have some performance advantages that merit a replacement. I imagine the MiG flight profile is climb to the most efficient cruise altitude and if needed accelerate to launch its weapons. This flight profile could be higher than regular fighters and faster.
 
AGS-1787 said:
I thought the MiG-31 had a lot of internal fuel? What is its cruise range and flight profiles? Does it have more reach because it can fly higher than most fighters? It can punch from longer distances to no? It must have some performance advantages that merit a replacement. I imagine the MiG flight profile is climb to the most efficient cruise altitude and if needed accelerate to launch its weapons. This flight profile could be higher than regular fighters and faster.
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Lots of fuel, but it's a heavy steel brick, optimized for mach 3.
Not the most efficient user of that fuel. Better than MiG-25 (which had more or less the same combat radius at Mach 3 and Mach 0.9; absolute rocket with no staying capability), but that's it.
Su-27P flew on internal fuel nearly twice as far (and long).

Frankly speaking, unless MiG-31BM2 shows something really special (which it in principle can, there's real estate for one hell of an antenna), there's not that much reason to hold onto it nowadays. Even in it's "core" roles (alert air defense, force multiplier asset killer)
Before SMO, it seemed it had a niche, but now...Su-57 is just more valuable.
 
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