RAF Puma Replacement?

[sparky42]

I would imagine (and hope) that the latest political development kills this.

To be fair, the article says its Tice that asked the question, so I'm not putting a whole lot of faith in it being even close to accurate. I can't imagine Labour want the optics of Leonardo shutting down their plant, not while they are busy talking up their position on defence.

 

[DWG]

To be fair, the article says its Tice that asked the question, so I'm not putting a whole lot of faith in it being even close to accurate. I can't imagine Labour want the optics of Leonardo shutting down their plant, not while they are busy talking up their position on defence.

I'm just amazed a Reform MP had been in the Chamber enough to know how to ask a question.

 

[RavenOne]

https://www.helihub.com/2026/01/14/uk-to-order-black-hawks-instead-of-aw149s/

So the key word from Tice remarks is is 'army'

Army Air Corps would not be ordering NMH. it be RAF via the D Hels at Abbey Wood, as they would be operating it. Tasking of battlefield helicopters for Joint Aviation Command (formerly Joint Helicopter Command) comes out of Army budget but all n all for the last 7 decades from the Sycamore, Whirlwind, Wessex days it is TAF

Plus with inter service rivalry - the AAC would not be allowed to fly anything larger than Wildcat.


cheers

 

[DWG]

So the key word from Tice remarks is is 'army'

When Tice says 'Army', all he needs is one disgruntled ex-squaddie from Southend-On-Sea to make it 'true'.

 

[Fluff]

Just a polite reminder that Governments and PM's have literally fallen over helicopter factories in the SW. Hope thats not too political.

Anyway RAF/Army have now seen the MV75 so no more blackhawk dreams.

 

[RavenOne]

Just a polite reminder that Governments and PM's have literally fallen over helicopter factories in the SW. Hope thats not too political.

Anyway RAF/Army have now seen the MV75 so no more blackhawk dreams.

yep cos after lockdown, we signed agreement (our Minister signed with US Army secretary to co op on advance tech..FVL is one of them).

dont forget to chuck in NGRC whatever or wheoever will be chosen to manufacture (lockheed Martin - Sikorsky, Bell/Leonardo, Airbus)

cheers

 

[Scott Kenny]

Just a polite reminder that Governments and PM's have literally fallen over helicopter factories in the SW. Hope thats not too political.

Anyway RAF/Army have now seen the MV75 so no more blackhawk dreams.

But which requires keeping the Pumas in service until ~2035 or so.

 

[Titus K]

https://ukdefencejournal.org.uk/unite-urges-uk-built-helicopters-at-leonardo-yeovil/

 

[Kiltonge]

https://ukdefencejournal.org.uk/unite-urges-uk-built-helicopters-at-leonardo-yeovil/

Meanwhile the A-W plant at Vergiate continues to churn out airframes.

Yeovil has always been a basket case. They've had 70 years to stand on their own feet instead of trailing on Sikorsky or Agusta's tails.

Giving them a contract 'just because' will only keep the doors open a little longer and then they'll be begging again.

 

[RavenOne]

https://ukdefencejournal.org.uk/unite-urges-uk-built-helicopters-at-leonardo-yeovil/

Unite makes me laugh, i know from personal experience an acquaintance, friend of close friends, whose a real lefty and regional unite secretary . So he is anti this that and other crowd goes on more protests especially pro Palestine anti Israel anti american anti military all on behalf of unite.

Talk about turncoat, yet it was not that long ago Unite were begging to UK MoD to reconsider closing of the Eurofighter production here in UK at BAE Warton and to build more here.

Yes Yeovil needs the contract for NMH to help boost them up,.but other work will come along even the producing additional 2 x NAWSARH to Norway.

cheers

 

[zebedee]

They're still talking apparently...

Flight: UK government continues talks with Leonardo over NMH as it pledges it will not allow AW149 offer to ‘time out’

Zeb

 

[zebedee]

Roberto Cingolani is very, very optimistic apparently...

Flight: Leonardo chief Cingolani hints that UK New Medium Helicopter deal may be close

Zeb

 

[sparky42]

However the Telegraph today is reporting Reeves has refused to sign off on it till the wider DIP is done (whenever that is), given the bid runs out over the weekend it’s an interesting question.
https://www.telegraph.co.uk/busines...blical-job-losses-by-refusing-to-approve-hel/https://archive.ph/ccw57

 

[yasotay]

Well in U.S. Army parlance "DIP" has been the acronym used by troops for "Die In Place." as in a no-win mission.

How sad it is that on both sides of the pond we look at our elected leaders with raised eyebrows and a sad shake of the head.

 

[sparky42]

And now the BBC is saying "Revees overruled the MOD" and awarded the contract for 23 airframes...

 

[TomS]

And now the BBC is saying "Revees overruled the MOD" and awarded the contract for 23 airframes...

So, the Telegraph story had the intended effect, I see.

 

[Scott Kenny]

However the Telegraph today is reporting Reeves has refused to sign off on it till the wider DIP is done (whenever that is), given the bid runs out over the weekend it’s an interesting question.

Defence Industrial Plan?

 

[TomS]

Defence Industrial Plan?

Investment

 

[yasotay]

It appears the UK Government has decided to go forward with getting new helicopters

 

[RavenOne]

It appears the UK Government has decided to go forward with getting new helicopters

Until the first metal cut, airframes being constructed on site at Yeovil then I will believe it

Still awaiting offiicaldom from Verigiate/Yeovil and Whitehall in black and white

cheers

 

[Titus K]

https://verticalmag.com/news/leonardo-wins-1b-uk-new-medium-helicopter-contract/

Leonardo Helicopters has been awarded the U.K.’s £1 billion New Medium Helicopter (NMH) program, with the U.K. government contracting for 23 AW149s.

 

[RavenOne]

I prefer the official press release and Leonardo one

https://www.leonardo.com/en/press-r...t-award-for-23-new-medium-helicopters?f=/home
Cheers

 

[red admiral]

You've got to wonder what was the point in competing this other than to give the illusion of competition

 

[DWG]

You've got to wonder what was the point in competing this other than to give the illusion of competition

The Procurement Act, 2023.

 

[Scott Kenny]

It appears the UK Government has decided to go forward with getting new helicopters

This honestly surprised me, I was expecting the UK to kick that can down the road till the MV75 became available.

 

[TomS]

This honestly surprised me, I was expecting the UK to kick that can down the road till the MV75 became available.

Their budget was never going to stretch to MV-75s. And the Pumas are already gone.

 

[sparky42]

The 149's are to enter service in 2031, last to be delivered by 2033:
https://ukdefencejournal.org.uk/new-british-military-helicopter-to-enter-service-in-2031/

 

[yasotay]

https://aviationweek.com/defense/aircraft-propulsion/uk-leonardo-sign-new-medium-helicopter-contract
Much the same here as above. I can only hope that UK systems integration is so significant that five years is warranted. I have no experiance with the inner working of UK aerospace, but would be surprised to find that the workforce would need five years to learn how to build a "new" helicopter. I suppose fiscal realities must also be part of the paltry pace.

 

[Titus K]

Am told that the UK has selected the GE CT7-2E1 engine over the Safran Aneto-1K to power its new AW149 helicopters.

Joins Poland in choosing Merlin and Apache commonality and efficiency over 'hot and high' power (4,000 shp across two engines for the CT7 compared to 5,000 shp for the Aneto, while both options offer more power than the 3,600 shp of the Puma HC2's two Turbomeca Makila 1A1 engines).

story to come...

https://twitter.com/x/status/2036832265955619301

View: https://x.com/GarethJennings3/status/2036832265955619301

 

[Kiltonge]

https://twitter.com/x/status/2036832265955619301

View: https://x.com/GarethJennings3/status/2036832265955619301

Ermm, the UK's Merlins use RTM322s ( aka Aneto )

So whichever engine they picked they'd only score two out of three, though there are more RTM322s in UK inventory than CT7 / T700.