Chinese Air to Air Missiles

Not again ... I must admit, PLA designation system is going a bit wild recently :(o_O; yesterday the re-use of the PL-11 designation, now the new missile - we formerly expected to be the PL-16 - as the PL-15E!


PL-15E + J-35A.jpg PL-15E aka PL-16.jpg
 
Well, it's basically just a compressed-carriage PL-15, right? It might simply be viewed as a PL-15 for J-35 weapons bay.
 
Folding fin variant should still get a different designation.
A) so users know what they are talking about
B) because there must be some slight differences in performance, due to extra weight, extra drag, a bit less mid body lift etc. if it was so easy and beneficial to put folding wings on a2a missiles, everyone would be doing it. Save for 2 fins on r37, i cant think of any other a2a missile doing it.
 
The PL-12AE air-to-air missile is a medium-to-long range radar air-to-air missile with the characteristics of long range, high guidance accuracy, and strong anti-interference ability.

It can undertake beyond-visual-range air combat missions and is used to attack fighters, bombers, drones, cruise missiles and other aerial targets.

The carrier platforms are Xiaolong, Menglong, large drones, etc.;
  • the launch method is rail and catapult
  • the maximum available g load is 38
  • the attack distance is ≥120km
  • the guidance method is a combination of strapdown inertial navigation/Beidou satellite + two-way data link correction + active radar terminal guidance
  • the missile length is 3939mm, the missile diameter is 203mm, and the mass is ≤214kg
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Sina Visitor System

m.weibo.cn
 

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New member here. What are the dimensions of the PL-15 / PL-17 especially the wingspan? Can't seem to find them online
 
siegecrossbow said:
PL-15 is around the same length as PL-12 (4m) but has bigger girth and cropped fins. PL-17 is 2 meters longer.
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Based on placards of SD-10A/PL-12, and PL-15E/PL-15, the PL-15 has the same fuselage diameter as PL-12 (203mm), but is a little bit longer (3996mm vs 3930mm)

Of course, by virtue of having cropped fins, PL-15 has an overall narrower footprint than PL-12, but we don't have confirmation of the specific finspan of PL-15 (only that it is narrower than PL-12)


1738129246622.png

1738129260483.png
 
Blitzo said:
Based on placards of SD-10A/PL-12, and PL-15E/PL-15, the PL-15 has the same fuselage diameter as PL-12 (203mm), but is a little bit longer (3996mm vs 3930mm)

Of course, by virtue of having cropped fins, PL-15 has an overall narrower footprint than PL-12, but we don't have confirmation of the specific finspan of PL-15 (only that it is narrower than PL-12)


View attachment 757702

View attachment 757703
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Would extrapolating the AIM-120D be a good estimate?
 
PL-15 doesn't have published wingspan, as said. But given that we have plenty of images around, and given that we have SD-10 dimensions, one can measure both missiles and then extrapolate the figures for the PL-15.

Anyway, when I measured PL-15, I got something like 560 mm for rear fin span and 430 mm for mid body wing span. Give or take.
 
Forest Green said:
www.twz.com

China’s PL-15 Air-To-Air Missile Appears To Have Been Used In Combat For The First Time

The apparent use of China's PL-15 by Pakistan in the recent eruption of hostilities with India comes as Rafale shoot-down claims swirl. A French intelligence official has reportedly confirmed the combat loss of an Indian Air Force Rafale taking part in recent strikes.
www.twz.com www.twz.com
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https://twitter.com/x/status/1920121451799093708
View: https://x.com/John_A_Ridge/status/1920121451799093708
 
If I understand correctly PL-15 is the equivalent to the AIM-120D not AIM-260, right?
 
Shusui said:
Natural progression of missile technology and design in accordance with near peer advancements to maintain a competitive edge?
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It was always publically linked specifically to PL-15.
And frankly, given the way AIM-260 emerged (range at any cost in the same format), it holds.
 
Josh_TN said:
AIM-120 has been described as a third generation missile equipping fifth generation fighters. It really has none of the hallmarks of a cutting edge AAM. The U.S. is playing catch up.
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From reading in this very forum I've determined that is a lie. The US tested dual pulse motors and had them ready for risk production prior to the existence of the PL-12. Miniaturized AESA radars for seekers were co-developed with Japan since the 90s, and advanced target detection devices have been used on our SAM's for many years.

The decision to produce the AIM-260 as an AMRAAM replacement is likely more to do with the fact that there is limited room for growth in the AMRAAM platform and they wish to fundamentally alter the structure, design, or hardware to achieve better performance. This resulted in a ground-up new design such as the AIM-260.

Now, just because they need funding to get it into production and use near-peer threats like China's developments as justification does not mean it is a reaction rather than something we've had up our sleeve. Look at the T3 missile or JDRADM, they got cancelled because funding would not be allotted. Those would have been similar, and entered service around the same time as the PL-15, seeing as it was only cancelled in 2013.
 
Josh_TN said:
At the end of the day, AIM-120 is a mechanical seeker and single pulse motor. It is not competitive with modern PRC designs.
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It probably should not be dismissed, the PL-12 is still in service and continues to be updated.. it exceeds the performance of that missile to my knowledge. The implication that it isn't relevant due to the existence of the PL-15 is somewhat absurd.
 
Shusui said:
From reading in this very forum I've determined that is a lie. The US tested dual pulse motors and had them ready for risk production prior to the existence of the PL-12. Miniaturized AESA radars for seekers were co-developed with Japan since the 90s, and advanced target detection devices have been used on our SAM's for many years.

The decision to produce the AIM-260 as an AMRAAM replacement is likely more to do with the fact that there is limited room for growth in the AMRAAM platform and they wish to fundamentally alter the structure, design, or hardware to achieve better performance. This resulted in a ground-up new design such as the AIM-260.

Now, just because they need funding to get it into production and use near-peer threats like China's developments as justification does not mean it is a reaction rather than something we've had up our sleeve. Look at the T3 missile or JDRADM, they got cancelled because funding would not be allotted. Those would have been similar, and entered service around the same time as the PL-15, seeing as it was only cancelled in 2013.
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No one is saying the Chinese has a leg up in AAM technology, it does however have the leg up in fielded technology. The PL-15 was painstakingly developed with a dual pulse motor because the PLA knew the Americans had dual pulse technology and knew about the programs for a NGAAM or an upgraded AMRAAM that incorporated dual pulse motors. The missile gap is because of those proposals falling through right before the PL-15 entered service, the PL-15 was made to match the performance of those cancelled AAM's.

Thus despite not lacking the technology, the AIM-260 is the counter to the PL-15. As the US fields no PL-15 equivalent, it is by definition playing catchup.

The lack of foresight,
 
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Shusui said:
It probably should not be dismissed, the PL-12 is still in service and continues to be updated.. it exceeds the performance of that missile to my knowledge. The implication that it isn't relevant due to the existence of the PL-15 is somewhat absurd.
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Technically all updated PL-12s as seen from Air shows are all export models likely meant for customer looking for modern low cost ARH missiles. All PLAAF/PLAN PL-12s should be old stock just like how Super hornets still carried Aim-7s from time to time.
 
Josh_TN said:
AIM-120 has been described as a third generation missile equipping fifth generation fighters. It really has none of the hallmarks of a cutting edge AAM. The U.S. is playing catch up.
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From what I’ve heard the C variant is highly jamming resistant. Still has lots of tricks up its sleeves.
 
Josh_TN said:
No argument, but the AIM-120 is still a rather dated design at this point. It’s hard to argue that a single pulse mechanical seeker is not approaching obsolescence.
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I thought the AIM-120D had a dual pulse motor.
 
Sferrin said:
The US could have had something better decades ago but there wasn't a pressing need.
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The AIM-152 AAAM comes to mind, that was IMO a major blunder in cancelling it in 1992 (No doubt at the behest of that arsehole Dickless Cheney).

siegecrossbow said:
From what I’ve heard the C variant is highly jamming resistant. Still has lots of tricks up its sleeves.
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True and if the US wanted a new AIM-120E AMRAAM variant with a major seeker upgrade they could, that upgrade would no doubt be replacing the mechanically-scanned seeker design with an AESA design.
 
Nx4eu said:
A near intact PL-15E which is missing the seeker found in an Indian field.
View attachment 769249
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Between that and other bits of PL15E wreckage found on Indian soil this will provide an intelligence windfall techies for the Indians (I wouldn't be surprised at all if they surreptitiously share the information with the Quad).
 

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