Villiers Aircraft

hesham

hesham

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Hi,

as I promised to talk about this company,in 1924, the French aircraft manufacturer Ateliers
d'Aviation François Villiers was formed at Meudon near Paris,later I will mention its list.

Vil.I ? was unknown,but may it was a single seat carrier based fighter project of 1924 competition
Vil.II was a two-seat sesquiplane shipboard fighter,powered by one 450 hp Lorraine-Dietrich 12Eb 12-cylinder W engine
Vil.III was a two-seat postal project, powered by one 450 hp Lorraine 12Eb 12-cylinder W engine. 1927, not built
Vil.IV was a two-seat single bay sesquiplane reconnaissance seaplane,on two floats,powered by one
450 hp Lorraine-Dietrich 12Eb water-cooled W-12 engine
Vil.IVbis was a version with a single central float,later became Vil.VIII
Vil.V was a two seat biplane to meet an 1926 (Aviation Militaire CN.2) requirement,for two seat night fighter,powered by one 450 hp Lorraine-Dietrich12 Eb water-cooled 12-cylinder engine
Vil.VI ? was unknown,but may it was a development of Vil.II as a fighter project
Vil.VII was a single-seat fighter seaplane project, powered by one 420 hp Gnome-Rhône 9Ab Jupiter. 1926, not built
Vil.VIII single seat parasol wing monoplane for 1926 competition,for AMC.1,a single seat shipboard fighter,powered by one 300 ho Hispano-Suiza 8Fb engine
Vil.IX was two seat reconnaissance float seaplane,it had a single main float with twin stabilizing floats,developed from Vil.4
Vil.X was also two seat reconnaissance float plane,with two main floats,developed
from Vil.4
Vil.XI was a single seat observation and recce catapult launched seaplane
version of Vil.8 (not Vil.4),powered by one 450 ho Lorraine 12 Eb engine
Vil.XII to XX maybe not used
Vil.21 ? was unknown,but my it was a three seat reconnaissance seaplane project
Vil.22 ? was unknown,but may it was four seat reconnaissance seaplane bomber project
Vil.23 was a twin engined seaplane prototype (Exploration four-seat), powered by two 420 hp Gnome-Rhone 9Ab Jupiter engines, mounted in tandem. 1929, only one not finished
Vil.24 was a two-seat single bay sesquiplane night fighter for Army or Navy,the most notable as the first French military aircraft to be fitted with leading edge slats,powered by one 450 hp Lorraine 12Eb Courlis water-cooled W-12 engine
Vil.25 ? was unknown,but may it was a heavy reconnaissance seaplane torpedo bomber project
Vil.26 was a four-seat low-wing patrol and escort monoplane of 1928/29,powered by one 420 hp Gnome & Rhône 9A 9-cylinder radial engine
Vil.310 was a high-wing transport monoplane,could accommodated 2 crew + 8 passenger,powered by one 420 hp Gnome & Rhône 9Ab 9-cylinder radial engine
Vil.320 was a single engined amphibian seaplane prototype,intended for
1930 competition for postal seaplane
Vil.330 was a twin engined exploration and reconnaissance seaplane,on floats project,may be with high-wing as the Vil.300,project of 1931

- To be continued
 
Last edited:
I made some speculations to Vil 25,27,28 & 29,maybe nearly the truth.
 
My reworked list:

Vil.2A was a two-seat sesquiplane shipboard fighter (AMC2), powered by one 450 hp Lorraine-Dietrich 12Eb 12-cylinder W engine. 1925, 1 prototype + 30 built
Vil.2B was a two-seat sesquiplane shipboard fighter, powered by one 450 hp Hispano-Suiza 12Ha 12-cylinder V engine. 1925, 1 prototype
Vil.3 was a two-seat postal project, powered by one 450 hp Lorraine 12Eb 12-cylinder W engine. 1927, not built
Vil.4 was a two-seat single bay sesquiplane reconnaissance seaplane (HBA2), on two floats, powered by one 450 hp Lorraine-Dietrich 12Eb water-cooled W-12 engine. 1925, 2 built
Vil.4bis was a special version with a single central float for altitude and speed records. 1926, 1 built
Vil.5 was a two seat biplane to meet a 1926 requirement for two seat night fighter (Can2), powered by one 450 hp Lorraine 12Eb W engine. 1926, 1 built
Vil.7 was a single-seat fighter seaplane project, powered by one 420 hp Gnome-Rhône 9Ab Jupiter. 1926, not built
Vil.8 single seat parasol wing monoplane for 1926 competition in category AMC1, a single seat shipboard fighter, powered by one 300 hp Hispano-Suiza 8Fb engine. 1927, 2 built
Vil.8hydro was a modified project version of Vil.8 with two floats that became Vil.9
Vil.9 initially called Vil.8hydro was a single-seat fighter seaplane (HC1), derived from Vil.8, powered by one 300 hp Hispano-Suiza 8Fb. 1928, 1 built
Vil.10 was a two seat postal float plane developed from Vil.4, powered by one 450 hp Lorraine 12Eb W engine. 1925, not built
Vil.11 was a single seat observation and recce catapult launched seaplane version of Vil.4 (HBA2), with one single float, powered by one 450 hp Lorraine 12Eb engine. 1926, 1 built
Vil.23 was a twin engined seaplane prototype (Exp4), powered by two 420 hp Gnome-Rhone 9Ab Jupiter engines, mounted in tandem. 1929, 1 not finished
Vil.24 was a two-seat single bay sesquiplane night and day fighter for Army or Navy (Can2/Cap2) derived from Vil.5, fitted with leading edge slats, powered by one 450 hp Lorraine 12Eb W engine. 1928, 1 built
Vil.26 was a four-seat low-wing patrol and escort monoplane (S3), powered by one 420 hp Gnome-Rhône 9Ab engine. 1928, 1 built, never flown
Vil.26bis was the Vil.26 lightened and re-engined with one 230 hp Salmson 9Ab. 1928, not built
Vil.310 was a high-wing transport monoplane, could accommodated 2 crew + 8 passenger (T8), powered by one 420 hp Gnome-Rhône 9Ab engine. 1930, 1 built
Vil.320 was an amphibian postal and transport seaplane project (T6), powered by one 230 hp Salmson 9Ab engine. 1929, 2 ordered, not finished
Vil.330 was an exploration and reconnaissance seaplane project, powered by 3 or 4 engines. 1931, not built. Became Terquem-Denhaut after Villiers bankruptcy
 
Last edited:
PhR said:
My reworked list
Click to expand...
Excellent work, thanks! I had three entries missing in my list.

A few questions and remarks:
  • Wasn't there a single Vil.2 prototype prior to the order for 30 series aircraft? My list had both a prototype with Lorraine 12Eb and another one with Hispano 12Ha (the one that is Vil.2B in your list). Or was it later included in the 30 examples?
  • You describe the Vil.2 as an HBA2. I had it as an AMC2. Did the mission change along the way?
  • The Vil.4 bis was a special aircraft for altitude and speed records.
  • Wasn't there a Vil.10 prototype built? Or at least started? Don't know where I got that notion from...
  • My list had the Vil.11 as the second Vil.4 prototype [F-ESEM] modified...
  • According to one source, the Vil.320 was actually started but not finished.
 
Stargazer said:
  • Wasn't there a single Vil.2 prototype prior to the order for 30 series aircraft? My list had both a prototype with Lorraine 12Eb and another one with Hispano 12Ha (the one that is Vil.2B in your list). Or was it later included in the 30 examples?
Click to expand...
Yes, you are right, I missed the first prototype.

Stargazer said:
  • You describe the Vil.2 as an HBA2. I had it as an AMC2. Did the mission change along the way?
Click to expand...
This is an error from my side: I mixed Villiers 2 and 4.

Stargazer said:
  • Wasn't there a Vil.10 prototype built? Or at least started? Don't know where I got that notion from...
Click to expand...
Difficult to be sure, but based on the data I have collected, the Villiers 10 does not seems to have been built.

Stargazer said:
  • My list had the Vil.11 as the second Vil.4 prototype [F-ESEM] modified...
Click to expand...
No: the F-ESEM was destroyed in an accident the 4th September 1925. Two other Vil.4 prototypes were then built: the Vil.4bis and the Vil.11.

Stargazer said:
According to one source, the Vil.320 was actually started but not finished.
Click to expand...
2 were ordered, but I don't know if manufactiring has started. This is possible.

I modify my list according your comments.
 

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I was actually preparing a post asking the exact same thing, with an enhanced version of the Les Ailes article, but hesham beat me to it! Thanks Philippe for showing us with that high resolution version of the image that it indeed showed the Vil.4.
 

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One last question: the list claims only one Villiers 310 was built.
However, photos exist of two separate aircraft: the Villiers 31 (later 310) n° 01 registered F-AKCR, and the F-AKEI.
Unless the F-AKCR was re-registered as F-AKEI at some point (no evidence of that), it shows that there were actually two aircraft built. Note also the very specific cowling on the second aircraft.
 

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Stargazer said:
One last question: the list claims only one Villiers 310 was built.
However, photos exist of two separate aircraft: the Villiers 31 (later 310) n° 01 registered F-AKCR, and the F-AKEI.
Unless the F-AKCR was re-registered as F-AKEI at some point (no evidence of that), it shows that there were actually two aircraft built. Note also the very specific cowling on the second aircraft.
Click to expand...
This is a mystery :oops: : F-AKEI was never registered for any aircraft, but F-AK-- immatriculation slots were usually reserved for prototypes (as F-W--- later and F-Z--- now). So it could be normal that it does not appear neither in F- Civil register nor Veritas archives.
This is the first time I see this photo. I have no trace of a second Vil.310. It could have been used for experimentation on the 1st prototype after it was abandonned.
 
More information about the unfinished Villiers 23, 26, 26 bis and 320, and the unbuilt 330, presented here as a 100% Denhaut project.
Entraînant avec lui son collaborateur chez France-Aviation, l'ingénieur TERQUEM, François entre aux ateliers Villiers à Meudon dans les
Hauts-de-Seine, où il occupe le poste de directeur de fabrication. Il trouve chez Français VILLIERS une passion pour les hydravions au moins égale à la sienne et ils mettent en chantier quatre prototypes, les Vil 23, 26, 26 bis et 320.
Le marché d'Etat du Vil 320, amphibie postal à coque centrale, est résilié, ses performances sont jugées insuffisantes face aux autres appareils présentés.
Après la fermeture des ateliers Villiers, François se trouve de nouveau à la recherche d'un emploi quand, en 1932, il rencontre Albert CAQUOT, directeur général technique du ministère de l'Air, qui lui demande d'étudier un hydravion trimoteur d'exploration et de torpillage dans le cadre du programme Marine. Mais, en 1933, l'Etat a pris de nouvelles dispositions sur le financement des prototypes. L’avance qu'il octroyait pour tout prototype envisagé est désormais remplacée par une prime ne dépassant pas la moitié des dépenses occasionnées lors de l'étude et de la construction des appareils, et accordée seulement aux appareils conformes aux conditions imposées.
Ne disposant pas d'une fortune personnelle qui lui permette de réaliser seul cet hydravion trimoteur dont les plans sont déjà déposés, François, désormais sans commanditaire, abandonne toute idée de construction aéronautique.
Click to expand...
Translation:
Taking along with him engineer Terquem, his collaborator at France-Aviation, François [Denhaut] rejoins the Villiers workshops at Meudon in the Hauts-de-Seine district, taking a position there as fabrication supervisor. In François Villiers, he finds a passion for seaplanes at least equal to his own, and they start construction of four prototypes: the Vil 23, 26, 26 bis and 320.
The official order for the Vil 320, a postal amphibian with center hull, is cancelled, as its performance is considered insufficient compared to the other aircraft presented.
In 1932, after the closing of the Villiers workshops, François [Denhaut] finds himself looking for a new job when he meets Albert Caquot, general technical director of the Air Ministry, who asks him to study a trimotor torpedo and exploration seaplane as part of the Marine procurement program. However, in 1933 the French state takes new measures regarding the financing of prototypes: the advance money that was previously allowed to any new prototype proposal is replaced by an allowance that doesn't cover more than half the expenditures of studying and building the aircraft, and is now only granted to those that strictly conform to the official requirements.
As he does not own a personal fortune that would enable him to produce on his own that trimotor seaplane (the plans of which have already been filed for patent), François [Denhaut], now deprived of any customer, gives up on the whole idea of building aircraft.

Source: François Denhaut (1877-1952), inventeur (PDF file)
 
hesham said:
Hi,

as I promised to talk about this company,in 1924, the French aircraft manufacturer Ateliers
d'Aviation François Villiers was formed at Meudon near Paris,later I will mention its list.

Vil.I ? was unknown,but may it was a single seat carrier based fighter project of 1924 competition
Vil.II was a two-seat sesquiplane shipboard fighter,powered by one 450 hp Lorraine-Dietrich 12Eb 12-cylinder W engine
Vil.III was a two-seat postal project, powered by one 450 hp Lorraine 12Eb 12-cylinder W engine. 1927, not built
Vil.IV was a two-seat single bay sesquiplane reconnaissance seaplane,on two floats,powered by one
450 hp Lorraine-Dietrich 12Eb water-cooled W-12 engine
Vil.IVbis was a version with a single central float,later became Vil.VIII
Vil.V was a two seat biplane to meet an 1926 (Aviation Militaire CN.2) requirement,for two seat night fighter,powered by one 450 hp Lorraine-Dietrich12 Eb water-cooled 12-cylinder engine
Vil.VI ? was unknown,but may it was a development of Vil.II as a fighter project
Vil.VII was a single-seat fighter seaplane project, powered by one 420 hp Gnome-Rhône 9Ab Jupiter. 1926, not built
Vil.VIII single seat parasol wing monoplane for 1926 competition,for AMC.1,a single seat shipboard fighter,powered by one 300 ho Hispano-Suiza 8Fb engine
Vil.IX was two seat reconnaissance float seaplane,it had a single main float with twin stabilizing floats,developed from Vil.4
Vil.X was also two seat reconnaissance float plane,with two main floats,developed
from Vil.4
Vil.XI was a single seat observation and recce catapult launched seaplane
version of Vil.8 (not Vil.4),powered by one 450 ho Lorraine 12 Eb engine
Vil.XII to XXII maybe not used
Vil.21 ? was unknown,but my it was a three seat reconnaissance seaplane project
Vil.22 ? was unknown,but may it was four seat reconnaissance seaplane bomber project
Vil.23 was a twin engined seaplane prototype (Exploration four-seat), powered by two 420 hp Gnome-Rhone 9Ab Jupiter engines, mounted in tandem. 1929, only one not finished
Vil.24 was a two-seat single bay sesquiplane night fighter for Army or Navy,the most notable as the first French military aircraft to be fitted with leading edge slats,powered by one 450 hp Lorraine 12Eb Courlis water-cooled W-12 engine
Vil.25 ? was unknown,but may it was a heavy reconnaissance seaplane torpedo bomber project
Vil.26 was a four-seat low-wing patrol and escort monoplane of 1928/29,powered by one 420 hp Gnome & Rhône 9A 9-cylinder radial engine
Vil.310 was a high-wing transport monoplane,could accommodated 2 crew + 8 passenger,powered by one 420 hp Gnome & Rhône 9Ab 9-cylinder radial engine
Vil.320 was a single engined amphibian seaplane prototype,intended for
1930 competition for postal seaplane
Vil.330 was a twin engined exploration and reconnaissance seaplane,on floats project,may be with high-wing as the Vil.300,project of 1931

- To be continued
Click to expand...

I edit the list,and remove the wrong speculations,and I remain the logical
ones.
 
Now how come,

the Vilkliers 320 was appeared in 1929,but we agree the number 320
indicates to the year and arrangement of the design,suppose to be
Year 30s second design 2,that means 32 or 320 ?!.
 
hesham said:
we agree the number 320 indicates to the year and arrangement of the design
Click to expand...
Who is "we"? I for one haven't agreed to anything!
In my opinion, the Villiers 310, 320 and 330 was simply the company's 31st, 32nd and 33rd models.
 
Stargazer said:
Who is "we"? I for one haven't agreed to anything!
In my opinion, the Villiers 310, 320 and 330 was simply the company's 31st, 32nd and 33rd models.
Click to expand...

Mr. Philippe indicated before to the meaning of Vil 310,320 & 330 or
simply 31,32 & 33 as the 30 referred to the year 1930,and 1,2 & 3 were
the numbers of the designs by arrangement of the concepts.

To make it easy,he meant Vil 310 or 31,by 30 is for the year 1930s,and
the "1" as the first concept,and go on,and I agree with him,not "we".
 

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