Giovanni Pegna Flying Wing Project

[hesham]

Hi,

http://www.abovetopsecret.com/forum/thread320129/pg1

 

[Skybolt]

More than one project, actually. Done in Piaggio.

 

[Retrofit]

More than one project, actually. Done in Piaggio.

Hi, Skybolt, Hesham,

Any more details available on this flying wing?

Thanks

 

[hesham]

More than one project, actually. Done in Piaggio.

Thank you my dear Skybolt,

and sorry for my late in answer,and I heard that the Piaggio P.18 was a project
of bomber,the friend who give me this info never mention anything about its
source,and do you mean it (P.18) ?.

 

[Skybolt]

Ummm, I don't think the flyiing wing ever received a P.number... I have some more details, let's me dig them up... (I sent them to Lark some months ago and since then I lost track of them ...)

 

[lark]

Sky...
There's a sketch of the Pegna flying wing in your
AeroFan No.74--July/September 2000.
Maybe it helps your search

 

[Skybolt]

As usual, you are right ....

 

[Skybolt]

Still looking for what I have (in the manuscript I have on Pegna's projects the table with flying wings is missing, grrrr). Anyway, here is what I can say out of memory:
the illustrated project is from 1928, it was a seaplane BOMBER with a deep V-shaped hull that doubled as a ventral fin, there were two lateral floats, retractable in the wings, the engines were three, buried in the wings and fuselage. Tested as a model in the windtunnel. Preliminary design only. Piaggio didn't have the structural skills to build it (nor Pegna had the structural engineering experience to design it...). Dimensions were: span m 39.5, lenght m 12.6, height m. 3,65. The preceeding year, 1927, Pegna designed a larger flying wing, even less feasable. It was a transport seaplane with two unspecified engines in wing nacelles and wing floats under them. Span m. 80.0, lenght m 23.5, height m. 12.

 

[Retrofit]

Still looking for what I have (in the manuscript I have on Pegna's projects the table with flying wings is missing, grrrr). Anyway, here is what I can say out of memory:
the illustrated project is from 1928, it was a seaplane BOMBER with a deep V-shaped hull that doubled as a ventral fin, there were two lateral floats, retractable in the wings, the engines were three, buried in the wings and fuselage. Tested as a model in the windtunnel. Preliminary design only. Piaggio didn't have the structural skills to build it (nor Pegna had the structural engineering experience to design it...). Dimensions were: span m 39.5, lenght m 12.6, height m. 3,65. The preceeding year, 1927, Pegna designed a larger flying wing, even less feasable. It was a transport seaplane with two unspecified engines in wing nacelles and wing floats under them. Span m. 80.0, lenght m 23.5, height m. 12.

GREAT...
Skybolt, thank you very much.

 

[hesham]

Sky...
There's a sketch of the Pegna flying wing in your
AeroFan No.74--July/September 2000.
Maybe it helps your search

Has anyone that sketch ?.

 

[ermeio]

Sky...
There's a sketch of the Pegna flying wing in your
AeroFan No.74--July/September 2000.
Maybe it helps your search

Has anyone that sketch ?.

I have that issue of Aerofan but it seems there is no such sketch there...
It may be that the issue of Aerofan is another one
My collection is rather scattered around, so I am not able to check which one.
er me

 

[hesham]

Thank you Ermeio very much,

and I hope to can get it,maybe this site will help you;

http://www.aeroflight.co.uk/?s=aerofan

 

[Schneiderman]

I find this all rather confusing. Pegna was never slow to patent and/or publicise his work but I can find nothing regarding a flying boat design of this type. Was it really from 1927/28? At that time he was concentrating most of his efforts on a variety of hydroplane configurations.

Curiously Skybolt's description sounds very similar to a design patented by Roxbee Cox and Coombes in 1937.

 

[hesham]

Hi Schneiderman,

I know Roxbee,and I opened old topic for him,but Pegna design was completely
different;

http://www.secretprojects.co.uk/forum/index.php/topic,5156.0.html

 

[Schneiderman]

Possibly, but until I see Pegna's work I can't be sure how similar or different they may be. Do you know the source of the image in your first post? It is obviously from an Italian magazine but which one and what date?

 

[hesham]

To be honest,I don't know from which book or magazine,but I remember it was from 1933.

 

[Schneiderman]

OK, that helps. I'll have a look

 

[Schneiderman]

Nothing in L'Ala D'Italia, L'Aerotechnica or Rivista Aeronautica for 1933.
It just serves to emphasise how important it is to give a good reference for you posted material. As in palaeontology and archaeology an item without context is of greatly diminished value.

 

[lark]

It's impossible to find the Pegna flying wing via the Aerofan article index.

The 2 view scetch with dimensions is a part of an article about Piaggio: Piaggio 1936 Year of transition.

The drawing is at the bottom of page 215. The issue for this drawing and page is
Aerofan : Anno18 N.75 Oct-Dic. 2000

 

[Schneiderman]

Does that mean that these Pegna designs are from 1936 and not 1927/28 as Skybolt suggested?

 

[lark]

In fact not. The 2-view is part of a larger drawing showing a 1941 airliner concept.
On the drawing is noted tutt' ala (1928)...
There is no further info about the wing in the article.
I send you a scan tomorrow.

Remark : the pages of the mag. are dated Aerofan 74 -July-Sept 2000 wile
te cover is Aerofan75- Oct-Dec. 2000.
It seems that there was a 'construction error' in the print shop at the time.
(hence the confusion with my former note)

 

[Retrofit]

Aerofan year 18 n°75, Oct-Dec 2000 page 215.
Part of an article called "Piaggio 1936, the transition year" but the "All Wing" project is dated 1928.
Note: 1936 is the year when Giovanni Pegna left Piaggio to be replaced by Giovanni Casiraghi as Technical Director.
Page 222: Interesting photo of "An undated, unidentified wooden mock-up under construction at Piaggio".
Any clue?

 

[hesham]

Many thanks to you my dear Retrofit.

 

[hesham]

Via my dear Lark,

here is a clearer view to it.

 

[hesham]

I can't imagine the front view ?.

 

[hesham]

As I have in my files,but not sure,there was another flying wing design to Pegna ?!.

 

[Hafidz Rahman]

Talking about Pegna flying wing, our beloved friend @Nico has posted the wind tunnel model photo in another thread:

https://www.secretprojects.co.uk/th...giovanni-pegna-for-piaggio-and-caproni.12292/

 

[hesham]

Talking about Pegna flying wing, our beloved friend @Nico has posted the wind tunnel model photo in another thread:

https://www.secretprojects.co.uk/th...giovanni-pegna-for-piaggio-and-caproni.12292/

Yes I know that of course,but I meant a landplane Project ?

 

[Hafidz Rahman]

Yes I know that of course,but I meant a landplane Project ?

Wait a minute, do you mean the alternative "Piaggio P. 16" design?

Here, i dive it from an old thread which you share from 2016:

https://www.secretprojects.co.uk/threads/piaggio-p-16.12311/
http://oldmachinepress.com/2015/11/29/piaggio-p-16-bomber/

 

[hesham]

Wait a minute, do you mean the alternative "Piaggio P. 16" design?e,maybe

Here, i dive it from an old thread which you share from 2016:

https://www.secretprojects.co.uk/threads/piaggio-p-16.12311/
http://oldmachinepress.com/2015/11/29/piaggio-p-16-bomber/

Of course not,I am who sent that drawing before,but I meant a flying wing landplane,
based on this concept.

 

[!Mark]

Pegna worked on this plane from the late 20s to the 30s, but unfortunately it was never ultimated. Thanks to the power of AI (Google Nanobanana) we can bring this plane to life!
This was the trickiest to make so far, I made both the 1928 version with the horizontal stabilizers and the wind tunnel version with just the rudder. I let AI imagine this plane being tested on the ground or being used as a bomber.

 

[!Mark]

Pegna's all-wing or flying-wing design was revolutionary for its time, like many other Italian projects.
We shouldn't be afraid to talk about them or to make drawings and 3D models, or AI reconstructions like mine, even if they are just projects on paper or wind tunnel models.
Especially considering the exaggerated acclaim often granted to German projects, even failures like the Horten 229 are called revolutionary, "alien technology", "decades ahead of their time", despite the fact that it amounted to little more than a wooden prototype fitted with engines that flew only twice or thrice, eventually crashing and killing the pilot in the process... And yet unfounded claims persist, that it inspired the American B2 Spirit or whatever people believe.
And then there are all the Wunderwaffe and Luft46 planes, which often never even reached the prototype stage like some Italian planes, sometimes they are proven post-war hoaxes, and yet people praise them, exaggerate their stories, make drawings models, put them in videogames and movies, and many think these were real German creations.
I am thankful to this website, and to people like Hesham, and others, whose work has helped uncover and share and bring to light the true history of aeronautics and the secret projects of other nations

 

[!Mark]

I realized that the plane was actually supposed to have 3 engines and be a seaplane. Any idea what the floats might have looked like?

 

[hesham]

I realized that the plane was actually supposed to have 3 engines and be a seaplane. Any idea what the floats might have looked like?

I think that, I have this one.

 

[!Mark]

I think that, I have this one.

That's cool, do you have other versions?

 

[hesham]

That's cool, do you have other versions?

No, I haven't.