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Author Topic: Avro 720 and derivatives  (Read 26764 times)

Offline 607TSR2

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Avro 720 and derivatives
« on: August 22, 2007, 03:02:48 pm »
I'm new to this great site and this is my first post. Does anyone have any pictures or profiles of the Avro 720 mixed-power interceptor? (Not the Avro 730 bomber). I have only seen photos of the mock-up, sometimes incorrectly described as the first prototype. Thanks
« Last Edit: May 17, 2014, 02:04:05 am by PaulMM (Overscan) »

Offline pometablava

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Re: Avro 720 and derivatives
« Reply #1 on: August 22, 2007, 03:53:20 pm »
Welcome :)

You have 3 view drawings an info at British Secret Projects: Jet Fighters (Tony Buttler)

http://www.amazon.com/British-Secret-Projects-Fighters-Since/dp/1857800958/ref=sr_1_7/105-7390951-8202022?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1187823154&sr=1-7

Pg 110 and 111


Offline Jemiba

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Re: Avro 720 and derivatives
« Reply #2 on: August 23, 2007, 11:33:48 am »
- Avro 720 with pure rocket propulsion
- Avro 720 with an additional jet engine (type unspecified),
  built as mock-up
- Avro 720 with an additional Gyro Junior engine
It takes a long time, before all mistakes are made ...

Offline 607TSR2

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Re: Avro 720 and derivatives
« Reply #3 on: August 23, 2007, 02:53:05 pm »
Thanks very much for these references and drawings.Tony Buttler's books are excellent in their accuracy and detail, but for inside knowledge and pithiness I think it is hard to beat Bill Gunston.

If I had any talent for this kind of thing I would produce colour profiles and 3-views  of the Avro 720 like those of the Avro 730 and SR-177 that are around these days, but there loads of other neglected planes too. Some that spring to mind are the XP-92 and XF-92A and the Saab 210 'Lill Draken'


 

Offline PaulMM (Overscan)

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Re: Avro 720 and derivatives
« Reply #4 on: August 23, 2007, 03:01:11 pm »
Thanks very much for these references and drawings.Tony Buttler's books are excellent in their accuracy and detail, but for inside knowledge and pithiness I think it is hard to beat Bill Gunston.

Bill Gunston's sole advantage over Tony is age (having been around at the time) but in terms of research he's not particularly accurate and prone to bringing his own opinion to the book regardless of the facts in my opinion. Nevertheless, he's done a lot of good work over the years.
"They can't see our arses for dust."
 
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Offline 607TSR2

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Re: Avro 720 and derivatives
« Reply #5 on: August 23, 2007, 03:31:03 pm »
Well. ok, he does have strong opinions but backed up by a lifetime of wide-ranging industrial, journalistic and service knowledge. Also, in my opinion, an incisive, analytical and well-structured prose style. A real writer.

Offline Geoff_B

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Re: Avro 720 and derivatives
« Reply #6 on: August 24, 2007, 12:07:01 am »
But still a journalist from the period not and not part of the Aviation establishment. Just because its been written in a book does not mean its Gospel. Bills bit about about a fighter version of TSR2 being offered to the RCAF in Wings of Fame vol4 has provoked a lot of arguments because he glossed over the fact, some of the Vickers 571 inspired projects from the late 50's were probably proposed along the lines of the ER206, but the TSR2 itself was specialised for its intended role.

To be honest you should read Project Cancelled by Derek Wood again a journalist but one who was more inspired by the history of the cancelled projects. Project Cancelled also includes a bit on the Avro 720 including a cutaway drawing from what i recall.

G

Offline pometablava

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Re: Avro 720 and derivatives
« Reply #7 on: August 24, 2007, 05:57:53 am »
Quote
Project Cancelled also includes a bit on the Avro 720 including a cutaway drawing from what i recall.

Avro 720: 3 view drawing on page 58, cutaway drawing on page 60

Avro 728 (720's version for the Royal Navy): 3 view drawing on page 59

Offline 607TSR2

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Re: Avro 720 and derivatives
« Reply #8 on: August 24, 2007, 11:00:55 am »
I have these drawings from Secret Projects and project Cancelled, which I have read carefully. I was hoping that someone might know of any colour profiles along  'what-if' lines.

It seems strange to me to criticise an author because of his age

Offline lark

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Re: Avro 720 and derivatives
« Reply #9 on: August 24, 2007, 11:08:33 am »
For some colors , I can suggest you
'The RAF Rocket Fighters' by Michael JF Bowyer
in Air Pictorial September and October 1996.

Color illustration with imaginative Sqn. markings by Alf Anderson.


Offline PaulMM (Overscan)

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Re: Avro 720 and derivatives
« Reply #10 on: August 24, 2007, 11:10:15 am »
Its nothing at all to do with his age! Bill Gunston is a good aviation writer, but he's not really good at documenting his sources and sometimes says things that just aren't supported with evidence.

For instance he says the P.1121 was called the Hurricane II by Hawker, yet Ralph Hooper, who actually worked on P.1121, said that's not true (it was internally called the "New Fighter" or its project number, from P.1103 onward). I believe Ralph over Bill Gunston on this. In contrast Tony is very careful to research everything from primary sources.
"They can't see our arses for dust."
 
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Offline 607TSR2

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Re: Avro 720 and derivatives
« Reply #11 on: August 24, 2007, 11:41:04 am »
The point is that BG was professionally involved in aviation for his entire career and understood it completely. He was a witness to the political and industrial developments at the time. TB, on the other hand, I feel is doing a different job- cataloguing, archiving, researching, but at a much greater distance in terms of involvement, timing and breadth of vision.  He does it very well, but his is not polemical, argumentative and incisive. Also BG was very careful with his research too.

Offline PaulMM (Overscan)

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Re: Avro 720 and derivatives
« Reply #12 on: August 24, 2007, 11:49:33 am »
Quote
He does it very well, but his is not polemical, argumentative and incisive.

I'm not sure "polemical" and "argumentative" are always desirable traits in reference writing.
"They can't see our arses for dust."
 
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Offline 607TSR2

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Re: Avro 720 and derivatives
« Reply #13 on: August 24, 2007, 12:04:32 pm »
Why not? When BG was writing, these were current ideas and projects of great political and national importance. It was vitally important to make the case for Britain's aerospace industry and defence procurement.

Offline Jemiba

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Re: Avro 720 and derivatives
« Reply #14 on: August 24, 2007, 12:40:29 pm »
"Why not"

There's a difference, I think, if you're reading an article in a current magazine about a
current theme, or a book, which is intended to be used as a kind of source for researches.
Nevertheless, I'm afraid, there's no neutral writing. Even when just listing data, there's
always a way to influence it with ones opinion !
It takes a long time, before all mistakes are made ...