Register here

Author Topic: Burnelli Projects  (Read 30659 times)

Offline hesham

  • Senior Member
  • CLEARANCE: Top Secret
  • **
  • Posts: 22832
Burnelli Projects
« on: March 09, 2008, 12:08:55 pm »
Hi,

I found this artist picture to Burnelli aircraft,it was four engined
transport aircraft with three booms,does anyone know it ?.

http://www.flightglobal.com/PDFArchive/View/1944/1944%20-%200224.html
« Last Edit: February 23, 2019, 07:23:21 am by hesham »

Offline Jemiba

  • Global Moderator
  • CLEARANCE: Top Secret
  • ****
  • Posts: 7938
Re: Burnelli projects
« Reply #1 on: March 09, 2008, 12:20:08 pm »
Looks similar to what is simply called "Burnelli Wing" on http://www.aerofiles.com/_burnelli.html,
especially by the use of contra props. Payload is said to be 40 tons, too, just the use of six RR Merlins
with 200hp (?) each seems not to be very plausible ..   ;)
(picture from above mentioned site)
It takes a long time, before all mistakes are made ...

Offline lark

  • Senior Member
  • CLEARANCE: Top Secret
  • **
  • Posts: 1774
Re: Burnelli projects
« Reply #2 on: March 09, 2008, 01:04:34 pm »
Canadian Car & Foundry B-1000.
I dont know the exact timeframe....

Offline hesham

  • Senior Member
  • CLEARANCE: Top Secret
  • **
  • Posts: 22832
Re: Burnelli projects
« Reply #3 on: March 10, 2008, 11:00:54 am »
Thank you my dears Jemiba and Lark,

and there is the Clyde aircraft which developed from Burnelli
concept.

http://www.flightglobal.com/PDFArchive/View/1937/1937%20-%201842.html?search=BURNELLI%20AIRCRAFT
« Last Edit: May 18, 2011, 08:06:40 am by hesham »

Offline Triton

  • Senior Member
  • CLEARANCE: Top Secret
  • **
  • Posts: 9705
  • Donald McKelvy
    • Deep Blue to Wild Blue
Re: Burnelli projects
« Reply #4 on: December 08, 2009, 03:02:32 pm »
An artist's sketch of a 120-ton "flying wing" fruit express designed for Colonial Airlines by Vincent Burnelli, exponent of all-wing craft.

Source: Stout, William B."Bigger, Faster, Higher!" The Rotarian January 1945
« Last Edit: December 08, 2009, 03:31:43 pm by Triton »

Offline Triton

  • Senior Member
  • CLEARANCE: Top Secret
  • **
  • Posts: 9705
  • Donald McKelvy
    • Deep Blue to Wild Blue
Re: Burnelli projects
« Reply #5 on: December 08, 2009, 04:28:39 pm »
Burnelli 100-passenger, eight-engined aircraft with counter-rotating propellers.

Source: Francis, Devon "Putting Plane's Fuselages to Work" Popular Science November 1945
« Last Edit: December 08, 2009, 04:37:48 pm by Triton »

Offline Triton

  • Senior Member
  • CLEARANCE: Top Secret
  • **
  • Posts: 9705
  • Donald McKelvy
    • Deep Blue to Wild Blue
Re: Burnelli projects
« Reply #6 on: December 08, 2009, 04:36:14 pm »
Canadian Car & Foundry B-1000B

Source: http://rides.webshots.com/photo/2558375340048918155RBJGDE

Offline SaturnCanuck

  • CLEARANCE: Secret
  • **
  • Posts: 299
  • Any landing you can walk away from, is a good one.
    • AeroFile Publications
Re: Burnelli projects
« Reply #7 on: December 09, 2009, 02:59:01 pm »
Very cool pictures.

While Burnelli was a visionary, on paper, his designs had merit.  But, in reality, they did not offer some of the advantages that he said they would.  The CanCar CBY-3 was quite efficient, but the shape of the aerofoil fuselage made the headspace low and the loading door small.  This made loading people and cargo difficult.

Perhaps, today with our advanced technologies and materials, his designs may have more value.  In the same way it took time for technology to catch up woth Northrop's flying wings.
Saturncanuck

:)

Offline Triton

  • Senior Member
  • CLEARANCE: Top Secret
  • **
  • Posts: 9705
  • Donald McKelvy
    • Deep Blue to Wild Blue
Re: Burnelli projects
« Reply #8 on: June 24, 2010, 12:04:50 pm »
Artist's concept of Burnelli car ferry in flight.

Source: http://www.aircrash.org/burnelli/walpapr.htm

Offline Tophe

  • Senior Member
  • CLEARANCE: Top Secret
  • **
  • Posts: 1151
    • Forked Ghosts
Re: Burnelli projects
« Reply #9 on: May 18, 2011, 07:04:35 am »
Dear Lark directed me to this link http://www.jitterbuzz.com/MAN_1939_12.html
with a Burnelli design which is not famous: CB-34.
The related patent is at http://www.google.com/patents/about?id=RaxEAAAAEBAJ&dq=patent:2286341
In the Putnam book “Canadian aircraft since 1909” page 170 (CCF/Burneli CBY-3 Loadmaster entry) I read :
The Canadian Car and Foundry company did not build the UB-14 but in 1938 proposed building the CB-34. It was considerably larger than the UB-14 and was to be powered by three Wright GR-1820-G100 Cyclone engines and was to have a loaded weight of 33,000lb (14,982kg). Have it been built it would have been the only trimotored Burnelli aircraft, but it was not proceeded with almost certainly because of the British orders for Hawker Hurricanes.”

Offline lark

  • Senior Member
  • CLEARANCE: Top Secret
  • **
  • Posts: 1774
Re: Burnelli projects
« Reply #10 on: May 18, 2011, 02:53:54 pm »
Thanks for the additional information Tophe !

Offline Skyblazer

  • Global Moderator
  • CLEARANCE: Top Secret
  • ****
  • Posts: 13244
Re: Burnelli projects
« Reply #11 on: June 06, 2012, 05:04:04 am »
A nice 1931 advertisement from Aero Digest:

Offline Mark Nankivil

  • Archive Raider
  • Top Contributor
  • CLEARANCE: Top Secret
  • ***
  • Posts: 1440
Re: Burnelli projects
« Reply #12 on: November 08, 2012, 06:36:01 am »
Greetings All -

From Air Progress, April 1965 3 views for the B-2000 and the BX-AB-3.

Enjoy the Day! Mark

Offline Alcides

  • CLEARANCE: Secret
  • **
  • Posts: 428
Re: Burnelli projects
« Reply #13 on: November 08, 2012, 07:18:59 pm »
Mark thanks a lot for this drawings. The 3d view for Burnelli projects are very rare. I'm still looking for one for the UB-20.

Offline Skyblazer

  • Global Moderator
  • CLEARANCE: Top Secret
  • ****
  • Posts: 13244
Re: Burnelli projects
« Reply #14 on: November 09, 2012, 01:36:13 am »
The 3d view for Burnelli projects are very rare. I'm still looking for one for the UB-20.

Ask and it shall be given unto you... This is from an old German magazine.

Offline tonton42

  • CLEARANCE: Restricted
  • Posts: 16
Re: Burnelli projects
« Reply #15 on: November 10, 2012, 12:42:27 am »

From Air Progress, April 1965 3 views for the B-2000 and the BX-AB-3.

Enjoy the Day! Mark

Waaaooo ! Really "What if" projects  :o  ! We can imagine if Mr. Burnelli was friend with Mr. Rutan ... and Mr. Boeing !
Thank you Mark !
Regards
Tonton
L'aviation c'est bon pour les sportifs ! Pour l'Armée c'est zéro ! (Général Joffre - Concours de Reims - 1911).

Offline Skyblazer

  • Global Moderator
  • CLEARANCE: Top Secret
  • ****
  • Posts: 13244
Re: Burnelli projects
« Reply #16 on: November 10, 2012, 01:57:18 am »
Waaaooo ! Really "What if" projects  :o  ! We can imagine if Mr. Burnelli was friend with Mr. Rutan ... and Mr. Boeing !

Certainly not with Boeing, considering they more or less stole his designs for the Models 754 and 759 Spanloader series...

Offline Alcides

  • CLEARANCE: Secret
  • **
  • Posts: 428
Re: Burnelli projects
« Reply #17 on: November 13, 2012, 06:54:22 pm »
The 3d view for Burnelli projects are very rare. I'm still looking for one for the UB-20.

Ask and it shall be given unto you... This is from an old German magazine.

Stargazer thanks for the effort. I have this one and I think the original source of this one is this:
http://www.flightglobal.com/pdfarchive/view/1929/1929%20-%200456.html


But this is the Burnelli CB-16 not the UB-20. The UB-20 has fixed undercarriage and not separated cockpits . As far I know this can be a good base for the UB-20 because seems this one was derived from the CB-16 and the dimesions where similar. Any complementary information will be greatly appreciated.

Offline lastdingo

  • CLEARANCE: Top Secret
  • ***
  • Posts: 554
  • Blogger http://defense-and-freedom.blogspot.de/
    • Defence and Freedom blog

Offline cluttonfred

  • CLEARANCE: Top Secret
  • ***
  • Posts: 1307
    • Eric Clutton's classic homebuilt FRED and more!
Re: Burnelli projects
« Reply #19 on: October 12, 2013, 10:48:06 pm »
Does anyone know of any single-engine Burnelli-type aircraft, built or unbuilt, pre- or post-WWII?  I can't remember seeing anything but multi-engine types.  Cheers, Matthew
*******
Matthew Long, Editor
cluttonfred.info
A site for builders, owners and fans of Eric Clutton's FRED
and other safe, simple, affordable homebuilt aircraft

Offline Skyblazer

  • Global Moderator
  • CLEARANCE: Top Secret
  • ****
  • Posts: 13244
Re: Burnelli projects
« Reply #20 on: October 13, 2013, 09:17:53 am »
Does anyone know of any single-engine Burnelli-type aircraft, built or unbuilt, pre- or post-WWII?  I can't remember seeing anything but multi-engine types.  Cheers, Matthew

Hi Fred! Been through my Burnelli files and wasn't able to fnd even one project with a single engine. I guess the fact that Burnelli's designs were all of the lifting body type means it would have been difficult to consider the use of a single engine.

Offline Jemiba

  • Global Moderator
  • CLEARANCE: Top Secret
  • ****
  • Posts: 7938
Re: Burnelli projects
« Reply #21 on: October 13, 2013, 11:09:05 am »
I've searched, too, with the same result as Stéphane. But generally, I think,
such a design would have been feasible. I've tried to transform the jet fighter
into a pusher prop as a proposal.But most Burnelli designs were for
larger aircraft, maybe this limited the possibility for single engined types.

It takes a long time, before all mistakes are made ...

Offline cluttonfred

  • CLEARANCE: Top Secret
  • ***
  • Posts: 1307
    • Eric Clutton's classic homebuilt FRED and more!
Re: Burnelli projects
« Reply #22 on: October 13, 2013, 11:29:40 am »
Thanks, guys.  My personal interest is in the possibility of taking a Burnelli-type concept right down to the light aircraft or even microlight category and I was wondering if there were any single-engine examples from Burnelli himself.  Cheers, Matthew
*******
Matthew Long, Editor
cluttonfred.info
A site for builders, owners and fans of Eric Clutton's FRED
and other safe, simple, affordable homebuilt aircraft

Offline Skyblazer

  • Global Moderator
  • CLEARANCE: Top Secret
  • ****
  • Posts: 13244
Re: Burnelli projects
« Reply #23 on: December 28, 2013, 04:05:46 am »
An old British Burnelli leaflet contains the top and front view of what appears to be the UB-14 transport.

However, the profile view differs from the top and front views in showing inline engines as opposed to the regular radial ones. This variant was captioned as the "British Burnelli BR Mark II" and was said to be powered by 15,000 lbs. Rolls Royce Kestrel XVI engines. Gross weight figures were missing on the document.

Offline lark

  • Senior Member
  • CLEARANCE: Top Secret
  • **
  • Posts: 1774
Re: Burnelli projects
« Reply #24 on: December 28, 2013, 11:41:26 am »
Side view of the Clyde 'Clipper' I think.

Offline Alcides

  • CLEARANCE: Secret
  • **
  • Posts: 428
Re: Burnelli projects
« Reply #25 on: December 28, 2013, 12:38:10 pm »
Side view of the Clyde 'Clipper' I think.

I agree  :)


Offline Skyblazer

  • Global Moderator
  • CLEARANCE: Top Secret
  • ****
  • Posts: 13244
Re: Burnelli projects
« Reply #26 on: December 28, 2013, 01:26:01 pm »
Thanks folks. This must have been an early configuration for what became the OA-1 Clyde Clipper. What kept me from thinking about the Clyde Clipper was the fact that the design lacked the characteristic canted tail fins that the OA-1 had. Also the designation "BR Mark II" was different.

I'm attaching a quick comparison of the BR Mark II profile, the cutaway profile the patent artwork, and the profile of the actual OA-1 Clyde Clipper as it was built. This will show the differences as well as the many similarities.

Offline hesham

  • Senior Member
  • CLEARANCE: Top Secret
  • **
  • Posts: 22832
Re: Burnelli projects
« Reply #27 on: February 10, 2014, 04:24:52 am »
Hi,


unfortunately I don't remember the page or the Issue from Les Ailes journal,for
this Burnelli aircraft,fitted with four 37mm cannons.


« Last Edit: February 17, 2014, 02:07:57 pm by hesham »

Offline Alcides

  • CLEARANCE: Secret
  • **
  • Posts: 428
Re: Burnelli projects
« Reply #28 on: February 10, 2014, 08:41:59 am »
Very interesting. A Burnelli "gunship"? Sadly the images are very low resolution.

Offline lark

  • Senior Member
  • CLEARANCE: Top Secret
  • **
  • Posts: 1774
Re: Burnelli projects
« Reply #29 on: February 17, 2014, 12:32:52 pm »
Despite the crude drawing , this illustration made me think
about a Scottish Aircraft & Engineering project based on
the Clyde Clipper.
It could be the Clyde Comet twin engined fighter armed with
37-mm canon and machine guns.....

If Hesham could give the reference for  the article, perhaps more will be found.

Offline hesham

  • Senior Member
  • CLEARANCE: Top Secret
  • **
  • Posts: 22832
Re: Burnelli projects
« Reply #30 on: February 17, 2014, 02:09:11 pm »
Despite the crude drawing , this illustration made me think
about a Scottish Aircraft & Engineering project based on
the Clyde Clipper.
It could be the Clyde Comet twin engined fighter armed with
37-mm canon and machine guns.....

If Hesham could give the reference for  the article, perhaps more will be found.


Sorry my dear Lark,


I don't remember,but I will search about it.

Offline lark

  • Senior Member
  • CLEARANCE: Top Secret
  • **
  • Posts: 1774
Re: Burnelli projects
« Reply #31 on: February 18, 2014, 05:22:50 am »
Thanks in advance..

Offline Alcides

  • CLEARANCE: Secret
  • **
  • Posts: 428
Re: Burnelli projects - XBA-1 bomber
« Reply #32 on: February 23, 2014, 08:49:27 pm »
OK, I've known abut this magazine long enough but i found really a a little gem today. At least for my and my  interest in Burnelli aircraft  ;)   from this site:

http://ww1aeroinc.org/blog1/journal-index/skyways-index/

I bought this number of Skyways magazine: 34, Apr 1995 Lindbergh’s Atlantic Survey Flight; Curtiss-Wright CW-2I; Japan’s French Connection B/J Navy Fighters Followup; Wiseoant Longitudinal Airplane; Burnelli’s Bombers; More Steam Power Fokker Details; First Kill (PZLs); Boeing PB-I Cockpit; Mexicans in the Gloriosa

The article is very interesting about Burnelli a-1 the well know bomber, the burnelli BX-AB-3 a very similar design just with 2 vertical stabilizers and the unknown for me XBA-1.

From the magazine: The XBA-1 intended to meet Army Specification c-213 of 1939. Wing span of 69 feet and gross weight of 28,300lbs, the XBA-1 would have carried up to 3,200 lbs of bombs. The proposed engines were Wright R-2600.

The article has more data about the bomber and a set of blueprints-like drawings  of XBA-1 bomber. This is the first time I see drawings of this type from a Burnelli Design. The resolution of pdf is good but not great. Anyway this is a lot better than the crude drawings I've until now from Burnelli projects.  I just hope more of this type of drawings emerge in the future.

Here a couple of examples of pictures in reduced size:
« Last Edit: February 23, 2014, 08:51:43 pm by Alcides »

Offline lark

  • Senior Member
  • CLEARANCE: Top Secret
  • **
  • Posts: 1774
Re: Burnelli projects
« Reply #33 on: February 24, 2014, 05:27:02 am »
I have the original article in my mag.collection...
A pity for the poor drawing of the A-1 bomber and no
hints or info  to the Britsh Burnelli / Clyde military variants...

Offline hesham

  • Senior Member
  • CLEARANCE: Top Secret
  • **
  • Posts: 22832
Re: Burnelli projects
« Reply #34 on: February 24, 2014, 05:37:45 am »
Great find Alcides.

Offline Alcides

  • CLEARANCE: Secret
  • **
  • Posts: 428
Re: Burnelli projects
« Reply #35 on: February 24, 2014, 10:40:21 am »
I have the original article in my mag.collection...
A pity for the poor drawing of the A-1 bomber and no
hints or info  to the Britsh Burnelli / Clyde military variants...


Yeah, a real pitty the crude drawing for the A-1, a bit better the BX-AX-3 . Do you have the original magazine ?

Offline Alcides

  • CLEARANCE: Secret
  • **
  • Posts: 428
Re: Burnelli projects
« Reply #36 on: February 24, 2014, 10:40:42 am »
Great find Alcides.


Thanks hesham  :D

Offline lark

  • Senior Member
  • CLEARANCE: Top Secret
  • **
  • Posts: 1774
Re: Burnelli projects
« Reply #37 on: February 24, 2014, 01:13:13 pm »
I have the mag. Alcides.

Skyways No.34 - April 1995 with the Burnelli bombers
article by Dave Ostrowski.

Obtained a long time ago when Midland Counties was a live and kicking.

Offline hesham

  • Senior Member
  • CLEARANCE: Top Secret
  • **
  • Posts: 22832
Re: Burnelli projects
« Reply #38 on: February 24, 2014, 01:35:34 pm »
My dear Lark,


I also found the source for Burnelli bomber project,but unfortunately no
more info about it;


http://gallica.bnf.fr/ark:/12148/bpt6k6554733t/f6.image

Offline hesham

  • Senior Member
  • CLEARANCE: Top Secret
  • **
  • Posts: 22832
Re: Burnelli projects
« Reply #39 on: February 25, 2014, 05:32:23 am »
By the way my dear Lark,


I found many articles about Burnelli UB-14 aircraft,and they mention the Clyde
Clipper in it,and if we look to the drawing of Burnelli aircraft with four guns,it
was resemble the UB-14 exactly,so may be it's possible to the drawing was
one of Clyde Clipper Projects.


Offline lark

  • Senior Member
  • CLEARANCE: Top Secret
  • **
  • Posts: 1774
Re: Burnelli projects
« Reply #40 on: February 25, 2014, 12:30:39 pm »
Alcides also gave us more Clyde info in his reply #25 ...


Offline lark

  • Senior Member
  • CLEARANCE: Top Secret
  • **
  • Posts: 1774
Re: Burnelli projects
« Reply #42 on: August 29, 2014, 11:27:02 am »
Writing on the above pic. refers to Canadian Car & Foundry I see...

Offline hesham

  • Senior Member
  • CLEARANCE: Top Secret
  • **
  • Posts: 22832
Re: Burnelli projects
« Reply #43 on: August 29, 2014, 02:05:12 pm »
Writing on the above pic. refers to Canadian Car & Foundry I see...


Yes my dear Lark,that's right,


and here is anther Mystery Burnelli aircraft Model,and I don't know if it was real design
or not ?.


http://mysteriousbill.weebly.com/bills-gaming-blog/burnellis-flying-wings

Offline Alcides

  • CLEARANCE: Secret
  • **
  • Posts: 428
Re: Burnelli projects
« Reply #44 on: August 29, 2014, 04:19:50 pm »
Writing on the above pic. refers to Canadian Car & Foundry I see...


Yes my dear Lark,that's right,


and here is anther Mystery Burnelli aircraft Model,and I don't know if it was real design
or not ?.


http://mysteriousbill.weebly.com/bills-gaming-blog/burnellis-flying-wings

Nope. This is a fictional aircraft from the Dick Tracy serial:

http://www.fantastic-plastic.com/SPIDER%27S%20WING%20PAGE.htm


Offline hesham

  • Senior Member
  • CLEARANCE: Top Secret
  • **
  • Posts: 22832
Re: Burnelli projects
« Reply #45 on: August 30, 2014, 03:04:07 am »
Thank you my dear Alcides.

Offline hesham

  • Senior Member
  • CLEARANCE: Top Secret
  • **
  • Posts: 22832
Re: Burnelli projects
« Reply #46 on: October 20, 2014, 09:04:22 am »
From l'Aeronautique 1930,


here is a float designed by Burnelli,but what was this aircraft which fitted with ?.

Offline Skyblazer

  • Global Moderator
  • CLEARANCE: Top Secret
  • ****
  • Posts: 13244
Re: Burnelli projects
« Reply #47 on: October 20, 2014, 09:21:38 am »
here is a float designed by Burnelli,but what was this aircraft which fitted with ?.

Good question... Registration #398N is supposed to have been carried by a Rhon Ranger glider (c/n G-483) but this obviously ISN'T it.
My first impression was that it might be an Aeromarine-Klemm... Interestingly, #396N was an Aeromarine AKL-26B (c/n 3-71), while #399N was an Aeromarine B... whatever that was!
Adding to the mystery, the registration that came immediately before that (#397N) was given to another Burnelli, a UB-20 (c/n 5)...
« Last Edit: October 20, 2014, 09:24:09 am by Skyblazer »

Offline hesham

  • Senior Member
  • CLEARANCE: Top Secret
  • **
  • Posts: 22832
Re: Burnelli projects
« Reply #48 on: October 20, 2014, 02:21:26 pm »
Thank you my dear Skyblazer.

Offline Skyblazer

  • Global Moderator
  • CLEARANCE: Top Secret
  • ****
  • Posts: 13244
Re: Burnelli projects
« Reply #49 on: January 24, 2015, 09:37:50 am »
Here's a Burnelli type I previously didn't know, the X-3 "Guggenheim" prototype (source: Jahrbuch der Luftfahrt 1931-32):

Offline bigvlada

  • CLEARANCE: Secret
  • **
  • Posts: 369
Re: Burnelli projects
« Reply #50 on: January 25, 2015, 12:06:02 am »
Looks a bit like Kalinin K7.

Offline Retrofit

  • CLEARANCE: Top Secret
  • ***
  • Posts: 534
Re: Burnelli projects
« Reply #51 on: January 25, 2015, 06:04:44 am »
Or the De Monge 7-5 of 1925.


Offline hesham

  • Senior Member
  • CLEARANCE: Top Secret
  • **
  • Posts: 22832
Re: Burnelli projects
« Reply #52 on: March 25, 2015, 09:35:48 am »
Hi,


never saw like this design for Burnelli,Flugsport 1936

Offline Alcides

  • CLEARANCE: Secret
  • **
  • Posts: 428
Re: Burnelli projects
« Reply #53 on: March 25, 2015, 10:16:58 am »
Hehsam fantastic find!!! Any clue about the kind of plane is? Looks like a passanger transport plane.

Offline hesham

  • Senior Member
  • CLEARANCE: Top Secret
  • **
  • Posts: 22832
Re: Burnelli projects
« Reply #54 on: March 25, 2015, 02:22:12 pm »
Hehsam fantastic find!!! Any clue about the kind of plane is? Looks like a passanger transport plane.


Thank you my dear Alcides,


but how we can't ID it ?.
« Last Edit: April 27, 2015, 08:45:13 am by hesham »

Offline hesham

  • Senior Member
  • CLEARANCE: Top Secret
  • **
  • Posts: 22832
Re: Burnelli projects
« Reply #55 on: December 16, 2015, 04:41:06 am »
Hi,

here is a Burnelli A-1 Bomber;

http://www.aircrash.org/burnelli/ch_a1.htm

Offline hesham

  • Senior Member
  • CLEARANCE: Top Secret
  • **
  • Posts: 22832

Offline Tailspin Turtle

  • Naval Aviation Author
  • Top Contributor
  • CLEARANCE: Top Secret
  • ***
  • Posts: 683
    • U.S. Navy Aircraft History
Re: Burnelli projects
« Reply #57 on: December 16, 2015, 08:20:28 am »
Proposed against USN OS-117, which was won by Grumman with what became the S2F.

Offline hesham

  • Senior Member
  • CLEARANCE: Top Secret
  • **
  • Posts: 22832
Re: Burnelli projects
« Reply #58 on: December 16, 2015, 01:16:40 pm »
Amazing Project my dear Tailspin,many great thanks.

Offline lark

  • Senior Member
  • CLEARANCE: Top Secret
  • **
  • Posts: 1774
Re: Burnelli projects
« Reply #59 on: December 16, 2015, 01:26:23 pm »
Gentlemen, both thanks for your
# 56 and # 57 contributions..
The Burnelli file is still alive...!
« Last Edit: December 16, 2015, 01:30:43 pm by lark »

Offline hesham

  • Senior Member
  • CLEARANCE: Top Secret
  • **
  • Posts: 22832
Re: Burnelli projects
« Reply #60 on: December 17, 2015, 05:13:24 am »
A big surprise;

I get this report about Burnelli,it contains the Projects; B-2000 as a six engined military/civil
transport and B-2000B bomber,also V-1000 conventional transport aircraft and B-1000 four
engined bomber,also the X-BAB-3 three seat high-speed light bomber.



http://www.aircrash.org/burnelli/pdf/td003.pdf
http://www.aircrash.org/burnelli/xbab3.htm

Offline hesham

  • Senior Member
  • CLEARANCE: Top Secret
  • **
  • Posts: 22832
Re: Burnelli projects
« Reply #61 on: December 17, 2015, 05:14:14 am »
And;

Offline Skyblazer

  • Global Moderator
  • CLEARANCE: Top Secret
  • ****
  • Posts: 13244
Re: Burnelli projects
« Reply #62 on: December 17, 2015, 11:14:22 am »
Proposed against USN OS-117, which was won by Grumman with what became the S2F.

I had no idea Burnelli had continued to submit military designs into the 1950s. Amazing project, for which I can't thank you enough.

Offline Skyblazer

  • Global Moderator
  • CLEARANCE: Top Secret
  • ****
  • Posts: 13244
Re: Burnelli projects
« Reply #63 on: December 17, 2015, 11:19:27 am »
A big surprise;

I get this report about Burnelli,it contains the Projects; B-2000 as a six engined military/civil
transport and B-2000B bomber,also V-1000 conventional transport aircraft and B-1000 four
engined bomber,also the X-BAB-3 three seat high-speed light bomber.

A big surprise indeed, thanks a lot for sharing. I'd been on this site a long time ago, but didn't realize it was still being updated with new material. Although most of these projects were known, we never had so much detail at our disposal. Also, the V-1000 is totally new to me.

Offline XP67_Moonbat

  • Senior Member
  • CLEARANCE: Top Secret
  • **
  • Posts: 2152
Re: Burnelli projects
« Reply #64 on: December 17, 2015, 11:22:31 am »
I like that X-BAB-3!
In God we trust, all others we monitor. :-p

Offline hesham

  • Senior Member
  • CLEARANCE: Top Secret
  • **
  • Posts: 22832
Re: Burnelli projects
« Reply #65 on: December 17, 2015, 01:16:40 pm »
Many thanks to you my dears Skyblazer and XP67_Moonbat,

and I have anther report for Burnelli,but I can't remember where it's now ?.

Offline hesham

  • Senior Member
  • CLEARANCE: Top Secret
  • **
  • Posts: 22832
Re: Burnelli projects
« Reply #66 on: December 18, 2015, 03:31:12 am »

I get this report about Burnelli,it contains the Projects; B-2000 as a six engined military/civil
transport and B-2000B bomber,also V-1000 conventional transport aircraft and B-1000 four
engined bomber,also the X-BAB-3 three seat high-speed light bomber.

http://www.aircrash.org/burnelli/pdf/td003.pdf
http://www.aircrash.org/burnelli/xbab3.htm

Can anyone make a better and large copy of B-2000B to a designer,want that ?,and thanks .

Offline Apteryx

  • CLEARANCE: Confidential
  • *
  • Posts: 139
Re: Burnelli projects
« Reply #67 on: December 18, 2015, 10:30:27 am »
A big surprise;

I get this report about Burnelli,it contains the Projects; B-2000 as a six engined military/civil
transport and B-2000B bomber,also V-1000 conventional transport aircraft and B-1000 four
engined bomber,also the X-BAB-3 three seat high-speed light bomber.

Wow… much greatness. That V-1000 is terribly mysterious. Looks like a Vickers design! Vickers V-1000… why does that sound familiar? ;)

Offline hesham

  • Senior Member
  • CLEARANCE: Top Secret
  • **
  • Posts: 22832
Re: Burnelli projects
« Reply #68 on: December 18, 2015, 01:20:04 pm »

Wow… much greatness. That V-1000 is terribly mysterious. Looks like a Vickers design! Vickers V-1000… why does that sound familiar? ;)

Hi Apteryx,

the Burnelli V-1000 was mention in that site;

http://www.aircrash.org/burnelli/td003.htm

Offline Apteryx

  • CLEARANCE: Confidential
  • *
  • Posts: 139
Re: Burnelli projects
« Reply #69 on: December 18, 2015, 03:23:15 pm »
Hi Apteryx,

the Burnelli V-1000 was mention in that site;

http://www.aircrash.org/burnelli/td003.htm

So the V-1000 is just a straw-man airplane? I'm crestfallen. :'(

Offline hesham

  • Senior Member
  • CLEARANCE: Top Secret
  • **
  • Posts: 22832
Re: Burnelli projects
« Reply #70 on: February 24, 2017, 07:55:48 am »
never saw like this design for Burnelli,Flugsport 1936

Hi,

and artist drawing to it,but the design is still unknown for me ?.

Model Airplane News 1936 05

Offline Avimimus

  • CLEARANCE: Top Secret
  • ***
  • Posts: 1866
Re: Burnelli projects
« Reply #71 on: February 24, 2017, 08:59:01 am »
Thanks folks. This must have been an early configuration for what became the OA-1 Clyde Clipper. What kept me from thinking about the Clyde Clipper was the fact that the design lacked the characteristic canted tail fins that the OA-1 had. Also the designation "BR Mark II" was different.

I'm attaching a quick comparison of the BR Mark II profile, the cutaway profile the patent artwork, and the profile of the actual OA-1 Clyde Clipper as it was built. This will show the differences as well as the many similarities.

I suspect that the middle-image from Skyblazer's comparison is actually of the Clyde Comet.

The associated top view shows that the trailing edge of the thick section center-wing is equal in span to the leading edge. However, in the other Clipper/OA-1 drawings I've found the leading edge is slightly wider span than the trailing edge.

This seems to be support by the fact that it is heavily armed.

Offline hesham

  • Senior Member
  • CLEARANCE: Top Secret
  • **
  • Posts: 22832
Re: Burnelli projects
« Reply #72 on: February 25, 2017, 05:24:45 am »
What was this ?.

Offline Boxman

  • CLEARANCE: Secret
  • **
  • Posts: 269
Re: Burnelli projects
« Reply #73 on: February 25, 2017, 06:52:15 am »
What was this ?.
That looks like a model of a variant of the Burnelli CBY-3 Loadmaster.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Burnelli_CBY-3

Offline hesham

  • Senior Member
  • CLEARANCE: Top Secret
  • **
  • Posts: 22832
Re: Burnelli projects
« Reply #74 on: February 25, 2017, 07:39:41 am »
Thank you Boxman,

but I think not.

Offline Jemiba

  • Global Moderator
  • CLEARANCE: Top Secret
  • ****
  • Posts: 7938
Re: Burnelli projects
« Reply #75 on: February 26, 2017, 01:39:11 am »
Perhaps searching would be easier, if the source would be given ?  ::)
It takes a long time, before all mistakes are made ...

Offline hesham

  • Senior Member
  • CLEARANCE: Top Secret
  • **
  • Posts: 22832
Re: Burnelli projects
« Reply #76 on: February 26, 2017, 04:28:37 am »
Perhaps searching would be easier, if the source would be given ?  ::)

Sorry my dear Jemiba,

I don't remember the source,it was from my old collection,I tried to figure about it on
Internet again,but no way

Offline Jemiba

  • Global Moderator
  • CLEARANCE: Top Secret
  • ****
  • Posts: 7938
Re: Burnelli projects
« Reply #77 on: February 26, 2017, 05:32:27 am »
Ok, it's a pity.
Couldn't find it via reverse picture search, too, but the big two bladed props
and the big wheels make me think of a rubber band powered model ...
It takes a long time, before all mistakes are made ...

Offline hesham

  • Senior Member
  • CLEARANCE: Top Secret
  • **
  • Posts: 22832
Re: Burnelli projects
« Reply #78 on: February 26, 2017, 07:36:29 am »
Ok, it's a pity.
Couldn't find it via reverse picture search, too, but the big two bladed props
and the big wheels make me think of a rubber band powered model ...

Yes my dear Jemiba,

and maybe it was belonged to postwar,just my suggesting ?.

Offline hesham

  • Senior Member
  • CLEARANCE: Top Secret
  • **
  • Posts: 22832
Re: Burnelli projects
« Reply #79 on: March 05, 2017, 05:16:27 am »
Hi,

I can't remember from where I got this advertising about Burnelli airplane,also I couldn't ID it.

Offline Schneiderman

  • Senior Member
  • CLEARANCE: Top Secret
  • **
  • Posts: 1129
Re: Burnelli projects
« Reply #80 on: March 05, 2017, 05:57:08 am »
Ok, it's a pity.
Couldn't find it via reverse picture search, too, but the big two bladed props
and the big wheels make me think of a rubber band powered model ...
I agree with that, and with Boxman's suggestion that it was based on the Loadmaster

Offline Avimimus

  • CLEARANCE: Top Secret
  • ***
  • Posts: 1866
Re: Burnelli projects
« Reply #81 on: March 05, 2017, 12:21:39 pm »
Hi,

I can't remember from where I got this advertising about Burnelli airplane,also I couldn't ID it.

Probably OA-1?

Offline hesham

  • Senior Member
  • CLEARANCE: Top Secret
  • **
  • Posts: 22832
Re: Burnelli projects
« Reply #82 on: March 05, 2017, 01:43:49 pm »
Probably OA-1?

Maybe,I don't know ?.

Offline Boxman

  • CLEARANCE: Secret
  • **
  • Posts: 269
Re: Burnelli projects
« Reply #83 on: March 15, 2017, 12:17:40 pm »
Here's a Burnelli type I previously didn't know, the X-3 "Guggenheim" prototype (source: Jahrbuch der Luftfahrt 1931-32):

Here is some quality newsreel footage of the Burnelli GX-3 (a.k.a., Burnelli X-3, and Uppercu-Burnelli UB-SS), reg. NX-124H (X-124H) (c/n 10),  taxiing and flying at Mitchel Field, Long Island (circa ~1929) as part of a Guggenheim Safety Plane ("Guggenheim Safe Aircraft Competition") demonstration (from 18-sec to the 54-sec mark).
YouTube: CriticalPast: Guggenheim Aircraft Competition at Mitchel Field in New York HD Stock Footage

Offline lucamax

  • CLEARANCE: Secret
  • **
  • Posts: 212
    • Res Aeronautica
Re: Burnelli projects
« Reply #84 on: July 03, 2018, 02:22:00 pm »
Dear friends,
I found randomly this Burnelli's project:

https://patentimages.storage.googleapis.com/63/ea/c4/fbc222825d7b09/US2380289.pdf

I don't know what it is: it looks like a sort of attack aircarft...
Here I share even a model of the X-BAB-3: hope you'll enjoy (pinterest source: https://www.pinterest.co.uk/fong0457/abandoned-projects-usa/).
Best Regards.

« Last Edit: July 03, 2018, 02:33:22 pm by lucamax »

Offline hesham

  • Senior Member
  • CLEARANCE: Top Secret
  • **
  • Posts: 22832
Re: Burnelli projects
« Reply #85 on: July 04, 2018, 06:40:13 am »
Nice find my dear Lucamax.

Offline ermeio

  • CLEARANCE: Confidential
  • *
  • Posts: 74
Re: Burnelli projects
« Reply #86 on: July 04, 2018, 10:00:06 am »
someone has a 3-view of the Burnelli X-3?

Offline hesham

  • Senior Member
  • CLEARANCE: Top Secret
  • **
  • Posts: 22832
Re: Burnelli projects
« Reply #87 on: October 14, 2018, 06:17:11 am »
From l'Aeronautique 1930,


here is a float designed by Burnelli,but what was this aircraft which fitted with ?.

From Le Document Aeronuatique,here is the Uppercu-Burnelli design.

Offline Dynoman

  • Senior Member
  • CLEARANCE: Top Secret
  • **
  • Posts: 722
Re: Burnelli projects
« Reply #88 on: October 14, 2018, 06:48:01 am »
A variant of the Aeromarine Klemm most likely sold under the auspice of Uppercu-Burnelli circa 1929.
« Last Edit: October 14, 2018, 06:59:06 am by Dynoman »

Offline Schneiderman

  • Senior Member
  • CLEARANCE: Top Secret
  • **
  • Posts: 1129
Re: Burnelli projects
« Reply #89 on: October 14, 2018, 08:37:22 am »
Some pictures on the Sim-outhouse forum. http://www.sim-outhouse.com/sohforums/showthread.php/17-The-Ongoing-Mystery-Aircraft-Thread-Part-Deux/page461  I'm not a member so cannot download the better ones

Offline Dynoman

  • Senior Member
  • CLEARANCE: Top Secret
  • **
  • Posts: 722
Re: Burnelli projects
« Reply #90 on: October 14, 2018, 05:22:05 pm »
Any idea if the Uppercu-Burnelli UB-14 was the same as the Model 101? I found an article that said that the aircraft which was under development in March of 1935 was a "Burnelli Type 101" (Flight, March 14, 1935, pg. 290). The aircraft UB-14 had already flown (1934), therefore I am thinking that the UB-14 was possibly the Model 101. Any thoughts?

Offline CJGibson

  • Top Contributor
  • CLEARANCE: Top Secret
  • ***
  • Posts: 1140
  • Shoot him, you fool!
Re: Burnelli projects
« Reply #91 on: December 19, 2018, 07:33:18 am »
Anyone ever come across a single-engined/single-seater Burnelli design with the cockpit below and aft of the overwing engine? Might even be a Cunliffe-Owen design based on Burnelli's configuration. 

Chris

Offline Dynoman

  • Senior Member
  • CLEARANCE: Top Secret
  • **
  • Posts: 722
Re: Burnelli projects
« Reply #92 on: December 19, 2018, 08:02:57 am »
Sounds like the Savoia Marchette S.64

Offline hesham

  • Senior Member
  • CLEARANCE: Top Secret
  • **
  • Posts: 22832
Re: Burnelli projects
« Reply #93 on: December 19, 2018, 08:03:40 am »
Any idea if the Uppercu-Burnelli UB-14 was the same as the Model 101? I found an article that said that the aircraft which was under development in March of 1935 was a "Burnelli Type 101" (Flight, March 14, 1935, pg. 290). The aircraft UB-14 had already flown (1934), therefore I am thinking that the UB-14 was possibly the Model 101. Any thoughts?

Need good search my dear Dynoman,but I think we spoke about this before ?.

Offline CJGibson

  • Top Contributor
  • CLEARANCE: Top Secret
  • ***
  • Posts: 1140
  • Shoot him, you fool!
Re: Burnelli projects
« Reply #94 on: December 19, 2018, 09:16:58 am »
Nope, was a tractor landplane.

Thanks

Chris

Offline hesham

  • Senior Member
  • CLEARANCE: Top Secret
  • **
  • Posts: 22832
Re: Burnelli Projects
« Reply #95 on: February 23, 2019, 07:22:14 am »
P
Dear Lark directed me to this link http://www.jitterbuzz.com/MAN_1939_12.html
with a Burnelli design which is not famous: CB-34.
The related patent is at http://www.google.com/patents/about?id=RaxEAAAAEBAJ&dq=patent:2286341
In the Putnam book “Canadian aircraft since 1909” page 170 (CCF/Burneli CBY-3 Loadmaster entry) I read :
The Canadian Car and Foundry company did not build the UB-14 but in 1938 proposed building the CB-34. It was considerably larger than the UB-14 and was to be powered by three Wright GR-1820-G100 Cyclone engines and was to have a loaded weight of 33,000lb (14,982kg). Have it been built it would have been the only trimotored Burnelli aircraft, but it was not proceeded with almost certainly because of the British orders for Hawker Hurricanes.”

And from the book- Справочник по иностранным самолетам 1940,

here is a Model for CB-34.
« Last Edit: February 23, 2019, 07:24:11 am by hesham »

Offline Motocar

  • CLEARANCE: Top Secret
  • ***
  • Posts: 566
  • I really should change my personal text
Re: Burnelli Projects
« Reply #96 on: February 26, 2019, 03:08:20 pm »
Cutaway Cunliffe Owen O.A.2 based in Burnelli design, published in Flight International magazine retouched by Motocar

Offline Burnelli Support Group

  • CLEARANCE: Restricted
  • Posts: 14
Re: Burnelli Projects
« Reply #97 on: March 09, 2019, 11:53:03 am »
Nice finds on this page.  I had seen only one picture of the wind tunnel model before this.  Here's a link to the actual tri-motor mock-up of the CB-34.  To me, this showed CC&F's intentions.  They intended to build this bomber had Burnelli won the contracts to build bombers from the UB-14 design which CC&F expected to happen.  You don't spend the time, money and effort like this without expectations for contracts.  It would have been an awesome addition to help end the war.

https://ww2aircraft.net/forum/threads/aircraft-mock-ups.38106/page-39 

In case you haven't heard, the CBY-3 restoration is almost complete.  I was told they're expecting to have a 75th anniversary themed unveiling in the summer of 2020.  I'm gonna be there.

https://www.neam.org/shell.php?page=restoration_burnelli_2018_12


Offline lark

  • Senior Member
  • CLEARANCE: Top Secret
  • **
  • Posts: 1774
Re: Burnelli Projects
« Reply #98 on: March 11, 2019, 06:28:45 am »
Any idea why the 3-view in 'the picture show' is labelled model 3 ?

Offline Dynoman

  • Senior Member
  • CLEARANCE: Top Secret
  • **
  • Posts: 722
Re: Burnelli Projects
« Reply #99 on: March 11, 2019, 07:19:59 am »
Other early Burnelli projects include the 1915 Burnelli-Carisi powered aircraft (built with friend John Carisi); the 1916 Burnelli Continental KB-1;and the 1917 Burnelli Continental Military Biplane.

Other aircraft that Burnelli developed were the Christmas Bullet and the Lawson Airliner (Burnelli worked as Chief engineer or a designer on both projects, but deserve their own separate threads).
« Last Edit: March 11, 2019, 07:21:51 am by Dynoman »

Offline hesham

  • Senior Member
  • CLEARANCE: Top Secret
  • **
  • Posts: 22832
Re: Burnelli Projects
« Reply #100 on: March 11, 2019, 08:05:58 am »
Any idea why the 3-view in 'the picture show' is labelled model 3 ?

Good question my dear Lark.