Burnelli Projects

hesham

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Hi,

I found this artist picture to Burnelli aircraft,it was four engined
transport aircraft with three booms,does anyone know it ?.

http://www.flightglobal.com/PDFArchive/View/1944/1944%20-%200224.html
 

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Jemiba

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Looks similar to what is simply called "Burnelli Wing" on http://www.aerofiles.com/_burnelli.html,
especially by the use of contra props. Payload is said to be 40 tons, too, just the use of six RR Merlins
with 200hp (?) each seems not to be very plausible .. ;)
(picture from above mentioned site)
 

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lark

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Canadian Car & Foundry B-1000.
I dont know the exact timeframe....
 

hesham

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Thank you my dears Jemiba and Lark,

and there is the Clyde aircraft which developed from Burnelli
concept.

http://www.flightglobal.com/PDFArchive/View/1937/1937%20-%201842.html?search=BURNELLI%20AIRCRAFT
 

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Triton

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An artist's sketch of a 120-ton "flying wing" fruit express designed for Colonial Airlines by Vincent Burnelli, exponent of all-wing craft.

Source: Stout, William B."Bigger, Faster, Higher!" The Rotarian January 1945
 

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Triton

Donald McKelvy
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Burnelli 100-passenger, eight-engined aircraft with counter-rotating propellers.

Source: Francis, Devon "Putting Plane's Fuselages to Work" Popular Science November 1945
 

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saturncanuck

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Very cool pictures.

While Burnelli was a visionary, on paper, his designs had merit. But, in reality, they did not offer some of the advantages that he said they would. The CanCar CBY-3 was quite efficient, but the shape of the aerofoil fuselage made the headspace low and the loading door small. This made loading people and cargo difficult.

Perhaps, today with our advanced technologies and materials, his designs may have more value. In the same way it took time for technology to catch up woth Northrop's flying wings.
 

Tophe

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Dear Lark directed me to this link http://www.jitterbuzz.com/MAN_1939_12.html
with a Burnelli design which is not famous: CB-34.
The related patent is at http://www.google.com/patents/about?id=RaxEAAAAEBAJ&dq=patent:2286341
In the Putnam book “Canadian aircraft since 1909” page 170 (CCF/Burneli CBY-3 Loadmaster entry) I read :
The Canadian Car and Foundry company did not build the UB-14 but in 1938 proposed building the CB-34. It was considerably larger than the UB-14 and was to be powered by three Wright GR-1820-G100 Cyclone engines and was to have a loaded weight of 33,000lb (14,982kg). Have it been built it would have been the only trimotored Burnelli aircraft, but it was not proceeded with almost certainly because of the British orders for Hawker Hurricanes.”
 

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lark

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Thanks for the additional information Tophe !
 

Stargazer2006

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A nice 1931 advertisement from Aero Digest:
 

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Mark Nankivil

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Greetings All -

From Air Progress, April 1965 3 views for the B-2000 and the BX-AB-3.

Enjoy the Day! Mark
 

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theponja

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Mark thanks a lot for this drawings. The 3d view for Burnelli projects are very rare. I'm still looking for one for the UB-20.
 

Stargazer2006

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Alcides said:
The 3d view for Burnelli projects are very rare. I'm still looking for one for the UB-20.

Ask and it shall be given unto you... This is from an old German magazine.
 

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tonton42

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From Air Progress, April 1965 3 views for the B-2000 and the BX-AB-3.

Enjoy the Day! Mark

Waaaooo ! Really "What if" projects :eek: ! We can imagine if Mr. Burnelli was friend with Mr. Rutan ... and Mr. Boeing !
Thank you Mark !
Regards
Tonton
 

Stargazer2006

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tonton42 said:
Waaaooo ! Really "What if" projects :eek: ! We can imagine if Mr. Burnelli was friend with Mr. Rutan ... and Mr. Boeing !

Certainly not with Boeing, considering they more or less stole his designs for the Models 754 and 759 Spanloader series...
 

theponja

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Stargazer2006 said:
Alcides said:
The 3d view for Burnelli projects are very rare. I'm still looking for one for the UB-20.

Ask and it shall be given unto you... This is from an old German magazine.

Stargazer thanks for the effort. I have this one and I think the original source of this one is this:
http://www.flightglobal.com/pdfarchive/view/1929/1929%20-%200456.html


But this is the Burnelli CB-16 not the UB-20. The UB-20 has fixed undercarriage and not separated cockpits . As far I know this can be a good base for the UB-20 because seems this one was derived from the CB-16 and the dimesions where similar. Any complementary information will be greatly appreciated.
 

cluttonfred

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Does anyone know of any single-engine Burnelli-type aircraft, built or unbuilt, pre- or post-WWII? I can't remember seeing anything but multi-engine types. Cheers, Matthew
 

Stargazer2006

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cluttonfred said:
Does anyone know of any single-engine Burnelli-type aircraft, built or unbuilt, pre- or post-WWII? I can't remember seeing anything but multi-engine types. Cheers, Matthew

Hi Fred! Been through my Burnelli files and wasn't able to fnd even one project with a single engine. I guess the fact that Burnelli's designs were all of the lifting body type means it would have been difficult to consider the use of a single engine.
 

Jemiba

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I've searched, too, with the same result as Stéphane. But generally, I think,
such a design would have been feasible. I've tried to transform the jet fighter
into a pusher prop as a proposal.But most Burnelli designs were for
larger aircraft, maybe this limited the possibility for single engined types.
 

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cluttonfred

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Thanks, guys. My personal interest is in the possibility of taking a Burnelli-type concept right down to the light aircraft or even microlight category and I was wondering if there were any single-engine examples from Burnelli himself. Cheers, Matthew
 

Stargazer2006

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An old British Burnelli leaflet contains the top and front view of what appears to be the UB-14 transport.

However, the profile view differs from the top and front views in showing inline engines as opposed to the regular radial ones. This variant was captioned as the "British Burnelli BR Mark II" and was said to be powered by 15,000 lbs. Rolls Royce Kestrel XVI engines. Gross weight figures were missing on the document.
 

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lark

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Side view of the Clyde 'Clipper' I think.
 

Stargazer2006

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Thanks folks. This must have been an early configuration for what became the OA-1 Clyde Clipper. What kept me from thinking about the Clyde Clipper was the fact that the design lacked the characteristic canted tail fins that the OA-1 had. Also the designation "BR Mark II" was different.

I'm attaching a quick comparison of the BR Mark II profile, the cutaway profile the patent artwork, and the profile of the actual OA-1 Clyde Clipper as it was built. This will show the differences as well as the many similarities.
 

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hesham

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Hi,


unfortunately I don't remember the page or the Issue from Les Ailes journal,for
this Burnelli aircraft,fitted with four 37mm cannons.
 

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theponja

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Very interesting. A Burnelli "gunship"? Sadly the images are very low resolution.
 

lark

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Despite the crude drawing , this illustration made me think
about a Scottish Aircraft & Engineering project based on
the Clyde Clipper.
It could be the Clyde Comet twin engined fighter armed with
37-mm canon and machine guns.....

If Hesham could give the reference for the article, perhaps more will be found.
 

hesham

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lark said:
Despite the crude drawing , this illustration made me think
about a Scottish Aircraft & Engineering project based on
the Clyde Clipper.
It could be the Clyde Comet twin engined fighter armed with
37-mm canon and machine guns.....

If Hesham could give the reference for the article, perhaps more will be found.


Sorry my dear Lark,


I don't remember,but I will search about it.
 

theponja

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Re: Burnelli projects - XBA-1 bomber

OK, I've known abut this magazine long enough but i found really a a little gem today. At least for my and my interest in Burnelli aircraft ;) from this site:

http://ww1aeroinc.org/blog1/journal-index/skyways-index/

I bought this number of Skyways magazine: 34, Apr 1995 Lindbergh’s Atlantic Survey Flight; Curtiss-Wright CW-2I; Japan’s French Connection B/J Navy Fighters Followup; Wiseoant Longitudinal Airplane; Burnelli’s Bombers; More Steam Power Fokker Details; First Kill (PZLs); Boeing PB-I Cockpit; Mexicans in the Gloriosa

The article is very interesting about Burnelli a-1 the well know bomber, the burnelli BX-AB-3 a very similar design just with 2 vertical stabilizers and the unknown for me XBA-1.

From the magazine: The XBA-1 intended to meet Army Specification c-213 of 1939. Wing span of 69 feet and gross weight of 28,300lbs, the XBA-1 would have carried up to 3,200 lbs of bombs. The proposed engines were Wright R-2600.

The article has more data about the bomber and a set of blueprints-like drawings of XBA-1 bomber. This is the first time I see drawings of this type from a Burnelli Design. The resolution of pdf is good but not great. Anyway this is a lot better than the crude drawings I've until now from Burnelli projects. I just hope more of this type of drawings emerge in the future.

Here a couple of examples of pictures in reduced size:
 

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lark

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I have the original article in my mag.collection...
A pity for the poor drawing of the A-1 bomber and no
hints or info to the Britsh Burnelli / Clyde military variants...
 

theponja

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lark said:
I have the original article in my mag.collection...
A pity for the poor drawing of the A-1 bomber and no
hints or info to the Britsh Burnelli / Clyde military variants...


Yeah, a real pitty the crude drawing for the A-1, a bit better the BX-AX-3 . Do you have the original magazine ?
 

lark

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I have the mag. Alcides.

Skyways No.34 - April 1995 with the Burnelli bombers
article by Dave Ostrowski.

Obtained a long time ago when Midland Counties was a live and kicking.
 

hesham

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By the way my dear Lark,

I found many articles about Burnelli UB-14 aircraft,and they mention the Clyde
Clipper in it,and if we look to the drawing of Burnelli aircraft with four guns,it
was resemble the UB-14 exactly,so may be it's possible to the drawing was
one of Clyde Clipper Projects.
 
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