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Author Topic: Western Artists' Concepts of Soviet aircraft during the Cold War  (Read 152936 times)

Offline pometablava

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Flaps (Spanish Magazine) Number 94

Domodedovo Air Parade 8 July 1967 report

Yak-36: "VTOL showing reminiscences to previous Mikoyan studies"

MiG-25: "introduced as two crew all-weather Mach 3 interceptor, but looking at its wing shape we guess it is a multi-role aircraft basically suited for low altitude nuclear retaliation. It is probably a Yakovlev product"

More examples, with pics, will follow soon

Antonio
« Last Edit: August 01, 2016, 02:49:53 am by PaulMM (Overscan) »

Offline pometablava

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Re: Western Artists' Concepts of Soviet aircraft during the Cold War
« Reply #1 on: August 07, 2006, 04:07:37 pm »
Spanish edition of an original english encyclopedia of weapons. Published in Spain in the early 80's.

This is my first post from it. An speculative drawing of a "new Soviet fighter in the F-16/F-18 class". "It seems that it comes from MiG and MiG29 designation is given, but others sources identify it as a Sukhoi product".


Offline Matej

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Re: Western Artists' Concepts of Soviet aircraft during the Cold War
« Reply #2 on: August 08, 2006, 08:25:43 am »
"Soviet nuclear bomber" from Aviation Week, 1st December 1958. In fact Myasischev M-50.

Bizarre aviation expert.

Offline pometablava

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Re: Western Artists' Concepts of Soviet aircraft during the Cold War
« Reply #3 on: August 08, 2006, 01:29:14 pm »
Nice pics Matej, thanks a lot
I have some stuff from the 50's that I'll look for. I remember a "Science Fiction" nuclear VTOL intercontinental bomber.

By the moment another profile from that encyclopedia of weapons. This time it is a "Su-27 Flanker".
Sorry for the bad quality scan :-\ but anyway I think it is a good looking aircraft

Offline elmayerle

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Re: Western Artists' Concepts of Soviet aircraft during the Cold War
« Reply #4 on: August 08, 2006, 10:43:36 pm »
Even when they got the design bureau right, they still mis-identified aircraft.  The Ye-2 "Faceplate" as the MiG-21, the Ye-152M "Flipper" as the MiG-23, etc.

Offline pometablava

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Re: Western Artists' Concepts of Soviet aircraft during the Cold War
« Reply #5 on: August 09, 2006, 12:37:34 am »
Quote
Even when they got the design bureau right, they still mis-identified aircraft

The MiG-25 was identificated as MiG-23
The Su-24 as Su-19 (The Su-19 in fact it is an advanced unbuilt version of the Su-15)


Offline Pioneer

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Re: Western Artists' Concepts of Soviet aircraft during the Cold War
« Reply #6 on: August 09, 2006, 04:36:18 am »
Try this one

First evidence of a Soviet equivalent to the Fairchild A-10 came in 1978, via USAF recon photos of a prototype at the Soviet Air Force experimental centre at Ramenskoye.
The US first identified it as the Ram-J.
Some reports have used the designation ‘T-58’. The aircraft was assigned the NATO reporting name of Frogfoot.
Armament of one multi-barrel rotary cannon and up to ten hardpoints.
The powerplants are probably non-afterburning versions of the Tumanski R-13. These engines are located in the wing roots.
Deliveries of production aircraft are expected to begin in 1983 or 1984.

P.S. I have to apologise, as I am unable to match these photos together, as I’m not the sharpest tool in the shed when it comes to things like this with my computer.
Does someone want to have a go?

I think although they were right of the mark with this impression of what would become the Sukhoi Su-25 Frogfoot, it still is a very interesting and I think a very good-looking design!

Regards
Pioneer
And remember…remember the glory is not the exhortation of war, but the exhortation of man.
Mans nobility, made transcendent in the fiery crucible of war.
Faithfulness and fortitude.
Gentleness and compassion.
I am honored to be your brother.”

— Lt Col Ralph Honner DSO M

Offline Pioneer

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Re: Western Artists' Concepts of Soviet aircraft during the Cold War
« Reply #7 on: August 09, 2006, 04:42:57 am »
Quote
The Su-24 as Su-19 (The Su-19 in fact it is an advanced unbuilt version of the Su-15)


Out of interest Elmayerle, What did this Su-19 advanced and unbuilt version look like ?
Do you have anything in the way of pics, drawings or specifications for it

Regards
Pioneer
And remember…remember the glory is not the exhortation of war, but the exhortation of man.
Mans nobility, made transcendent in the fiery crucible of war.
Faithfulness and fortitude.
Gentleness and compassion.
I am honored to be your brother.”

— Lt Col Ralph Honner DSO M

Offline PaulMM (Overscan)

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Re: Western Artists' Concepts of Soviet aircraft during the Cold War
« Reply #8 on: August 09, 2006, 04:53:39 am »
I have specs and drawings of the Su-19 - it used a"crescent" wing similar to the original Su-27, had Tumansky turbofan engines and a lookdown shootdown radar/weapons system. I can post when I get home. 
"They can't see our arses for dust."
 
- Sir Sydney Camm

Offline Pioneer

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Re: Western Artists' Concepts of Soviet aircraft during the Cold War
« Reply #9 on: August 09, 2006, 05:33:46 am »
Great

Thanks again Overscan!

Regards
Pioneer
And remember…remember the glory is not the exhortation of war, but the exhortation of man.
Mans nobility, made transcendent in the fiery crucible of war.
Faithfulness and fortitude.
Gentleness and compassion.
I am honored to be your brother.”

— Lt Col Ralph Honner DSO M

Offline Matej

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Re: Western Artists' Concepts of Soviet aircraft during the Cold War
« Reply #10 on: August 09, 2006, 07:37:00 am »
"Kamov Hokum" from domestic version of what originally was Encyclopedia of Aircrafts, Aerospace Publishing Ltd, 1991. Its interesting that western analysts long time thought that Ka-50 is two seat helicopter mainly because Soviets used during tests pasted plastic pieces behind cockpit for mirroring sunlight like glass.

Photos of RAM-K (Su-27) and RAM-L (MiG-29) done by KH-11 spy satellite in 1984.

Bizarre aviation expert.

Offline pometablava

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Re: Western Artists' Concepts of Soviet aircraft during the Cold War
« Reply #11 on: August 09, 2006, 12:02:50 pm »
Pioneer,

Here it's the RAM-J

Offline pometablava

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Re: Western Artists' Concepts of Soviet aircraft during the Cold War
« Reply #12 on: August 09, 2006, 02:58:56 pm »
More from the "Weapons Encyclopedia". This time Chinese Fighters, the J-8 and the J-12. Both from Shenyang
"The J-8 Finback would be a Mach 2 fighter (2 Tumansky R-11 copies) developed from one MiG-23 received from Egypt. First operational units would be ready from 1980".
"The J-12 would be a Mach 2 fighter engined with one Spey with afterburner". The Chinese Spey program started in 1979.

Cheers

Antonio


Offline elmayerle

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Re: Western Artists' Concepts of Soviet aircraft during the Cold War
« Reply #13 on: August 09, 2006, 10:32:51 pm »
Quote
The Su-24 as Su-19 (The Su-19 in fact it is an advanced unbuilt version of the Su-15)
Out of interest Elmayerle, What did this Su-19 advanced and unbuilt version look like Do you have anything in the way of pics, drawings or specifications for it

You can find drawings and specifications in Red Stars, Volume 16, Sukhoi Interceptors.

Offline pometablava

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Re: Western Artists' Concepts of Soviet aircraft during the Cold War
« Reply #14 on: August 09, 2006, 11:35:34 pm »
Quote
Do you have anything in the way of pics, drawings or specifications for it


Also in Tony Buttler's Secret Projects: Russian Fighters :)

Offline PaulMM (Overscan)

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"They can't see our arses for dust."
 
- Sir Sydney Camm

Offline Pioneer

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Re: Western Artists' Concepts of Soviet aircraft during the Cold War
« Reply #16 on: August 10, 2006, 12:49:40 am »
Thanks Pometabl for putting my scan together.

Thats what I was going to do!
Well try to do.

Thanks again for your efforts

Regards
Pioneer
And remember…remember the glory is not the exhortation of war, but the exhortation of man.
Mans nobility, made transcendent in the fiery crucible of war.
Faithfulness and fortitude.
Gentleness and compassion.
I am honored to be your brother.”

— Lt Col Ralph Honner DSO M

Offline pometablava

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Re: Western Artists' Concepts of Soviet aircraft during the Cold War
« Reply #17 on: August 10, 2006, 12:02:56 pm »
Dear Pioneer,

Thanks to you for posting the pic, I'm glad to collaborate with you :D

Offline Sundog

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Re: Western Artists' Concepts of Soviet aircraft during the Cold War
« Reply #18 on: August 14, 2006, 06:23:50 pm »
I don't know if we'll find much info on these types, but below is the General Dynamics MiG-2000. When we develop new fighters we use intel reports to tell us what they will be up against. The ATF (Now F-22) was developed to dominate the Flanker follow on, which turned out to be the MiG 1.42. As a result of American Intel, they expected it to be a twin engine canard delta configuration with some LO features. As a result, this is one of the concepts they came up with of what the ATF may have been up against. I think it's actually a very cool design, myself.
« Last Edit: October 16, 2007, 09:09:11 pm by flateric »

Offline pometablava

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Re: Western Artists' Concepts of Soviet aircraft during the Cold War
« Reply #19 on: August 15, 2006, 02:46:55 am »
Thanks Sundog, great post!

I knew about the MiG 2000 Conceptual fighter ( Stealth Technology. The art of black magic by J.Jones. TAB Books) but I didn't knew that came from GD. I'm fascinated with this design activity which is new for me. I thought that Aerospace companies designed only for its own nations or give assistance to friendly customers.
Recently, thanks to posts in whatifmodelers forum, I discovered that US Manufacturers also give help to Hollywood movies:

Firefox TM
Stealth TM (The A-37 Talon seems to be a Northrop product)
X-Men TM

But this American intel/development of opposing designs is amazing. I'm waiting for more info :)

Offline pometablava

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Re: Western Artists' Concepts of Soviet aircraft during the Cold War
« Reply #20 on: August 17, 2006, 01:58:52 pm »
Drawings form Spanish Magazine "Avión" April 1956.
A dossier on the "new generation" of Soviet Fighters
« Last Edit: May 21, 2014, 12:46:29 am by PaulMM (Overscan) »

Offline pometablava

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Re: Western Artists' Concepts of Soviet aircraft during the Cold War
« Reply #21 on: August 17, 2006, 02:00:05 pm »
The Fantail
« Last Edit: May 21, 2014, 12:47:01 am by PaulMM (Overscan) »

Offline pometablava

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Re: Western Artists' Concepts of Soviet aircraft during the Cold War
« Reply #22 on: August 17, 2006, 02:42:17 pm »
MiG's

Offline pometablava

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Re: Western Artists' Concepts of Soviet aircraft during the Cold War
« Reply #23 on: August 17, 2006, 02:45:02 pm »
Also from "Avión" but from March 1956 issue.

This is an hypotetical nuclear powered bomber

Offline flateric

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Re: Western Artists' Concepts of Soviet aircraft during the Cold War
« Reply #24 on: August 17, 2006, 07:39:45 pm »
Crying under the table))) Thank you)))
"There are many disbelievers in
stealth, more than a few of them truly technically ignorant and proud of it." Sherm Mullin, Skunk Works

Offline Matej

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Re: Western Artists' Concepts of Soviet aircraft during the Cold War
« Reply #25 on: August 25, 2006, 08:15:25 am »
Desinterpretation of what is this? Or pure fantasy?

Bizarre aviation expert.

Offline Matej

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Re: Western Artists' Concepts of Soviet aircraft during the Cold War
« Reply #26 on: August 28, 2006, 07:56:53 am »
Misidentification of the year!  ;D  ;D  ;D

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Offline Deino

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Re: Western Artists' Concepts of Soviet aircraft during the Cold War
« Reply #27 on: August 28, 2006, 12:15:44 pm »
More from the "Weapons Encyclopedia". This time Chinese Fighters, the J-8 and the J-12. Both from Shenyang
"The J-8 Finback would be a Mach 2 fighter (2 Tumansky R-11 copies) developed from one MiG-23 received from Egypt. First operational units would be ready from 1980".
"The J-12 would be a Mach 2 fighter engined with one Spey with afterburner". The Chinese Spey program started in 1979.

Cheers

Antonio


Ohhhhh ... are there some more of these Chinese "might-look-like" ... and would You PLEASE be so kind to post them here !!!!!! PLEASE

Otherwise maybe a PM !!

Cheers + THANKs a lot, Deino
He was my North, my South, my East and West,
My working week and my Sunday rest,
My noon, my midnight, my talk, my song;
I thought that love would last forever; I was wrong.
...
For nothing now can ever come to any good.
-------------------------------------------------
W.H.Auden (1945)

Offline pometablava

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Re: Western Artists' Concepts of Soviet aircraft during the Cold War
« Reply #28 on: August 28, 2006, 01:13:51 pm »
Dear Deino,

This is all I have about Chinese "might-look-like", but If you want high quality scans about this pics I can send you by email

Offline Deino

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Re: Western Artists' Concepts of Soviet aircraft during the Cold War
« Reply #29 on: August 28, 2006, 01:20:47 pm »
Dear Deino,

This is all I have about Chinese "might-look-like", but If you want high quality scans about this pics I can send you by email

Hey, that would be very fine !!

andreas_rupprecht@gmx.de

Thanks, Deino  ;)
He was my North, my South, my East and West,
My working week and my Sunday rest,
My noon, my midnight, my talk, my song;
I thought that love would last forever; I was wrong.
...
For nothing now can ever come to any good.
-------------------------------------------------
W.H.Auden (1945)

Offline pometablava

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Re: Western Artists' Concepts of Soviet aircraft during the Cold War
« Reply #30 on: September 02, 2006, 03:53:49 pm »
I have found that the Western Press Mig-29 misidentification I posted here it its not an pure invention of Western analists. It seems that this "westen MiG-29 is based on early designs of the real work :P

Please compare this real MiG-29 design from 1972 to the Western concept (apart from the twin fin layout in the Western concept they look quite similar).
« Last Edit: September 02, 2006, 04:12:10 pm by overscan »

Offline Deino

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Re: Western Artists' Concepts of Soviet aircraft during the Cold War
« Reply #31 on: September 02, 2006, 04:12:53 pm »
Hey; very nice !

Just found some additional Western MiG-29 "might-look-like" pictures ....

Cheers, Deino
He was my North, my South, my East and West,
My working week and my Sunday rest,
My noon, my midnight, my talk, my song;
I thought that love would last forever; I was wrong.
...
For nothing now can ever come to any good.
-------------------------------------------------
W.H.Auden (1945)

Offline PaulMM (Overscan)

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Re: Western Artists' Concepts of Soviet aircraft during the Cold War
« Reply #32 on: September 02, 2006, 04:17:12 pm »
Deino's impression is based on the overhead satellite image. Top view is pretty accurate.
"They can't see our arses for dust."
 
- Sir Sydney Camm

Offline Deino

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Re: Western Artists' Concepts of Soviet aircraft during the Cold War
« Reply #33 on: September 02, 2006, 04:30:30 pm »
... and three more from Bill Sweetman's "The Presidio concise guide to Soviet Military Aircraft"/1981; ISBN: 0-89141-135-6

The later MiG-31 alias "Super-Foxbat", the MiG-29 and the Su-25 (similar to the colour frofile already shown) !

Deino
« Last Edit: September 02, 2006, 04:32:40 pm by Deino »
He was my North, my South, my East and West,
My working week and my Sunday rest,
My noon, my midnight, my talk, my song;
I thought that love would last forever; I was wrong.
...
For nothing now can ever come to any good.
-------------------------------------------------
W.H.Auden (1945)

Offline PaulMM (Overscan)

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Re: Western Artists' Concepts of Soviet aircraft during the Cold War
« Reply #34 on: September 20, 2006, 01:08:10 pm »
The Pentagon explicitly denied reports in Janes and other publications that the Soviet Union is developing/flight testing 3 new projects:

a Tu-144 derived bomber
MiG-29, an air superiority fighter with capabilities between the MiG-25 and F-15
An A-10 equivalent

Air International Feb 1978

"They can't see our arses for dust."
 
- Sir Sydney Camm

Offline frank

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Re: Western Artists' Concepts of Soviet aircraft during the Cold War
« Reply #35 on: September 20, 2006, 01:58:35 pm »
     
      And the MiG-29 pretty much came thru as well as the A-10 equivalent. There never was a Tu-144 derived bomber tho, was there? Was it a standard Tu-144 seen in the wrong place at the wrong time or the Sukhoi T-4 or what?


The Pentagon explicitly denied reports in Janes and other publications that the Soviet Union is developing/flight testing 3 new projects:

a Tu-144 derived bomber
MiG-29, an air superiority fighter with capabilities between the MiG-25 and F-15
An A-10 equivalent

Air International Feb 1978



Offline PaulMM (Overscan)

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Re: Western Artists' Concepts of Soviet aircraft during the Cold War
« Reply #36 on: September 20, 2006, 02:05:14 pm »
The Tupolev Tu-160 original configuration was heavily based on the Tu-144. Tupolev also tried to push various cruise missile carrier, recce, ecm, even interceptor versions of the Tu-144 through the 70s.
"They can't see our arses for dust."
 
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Offline JC Carbonel

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Re: Western Artists' Concepts of Soviet aircraft during the Cold War
« Reply #37 on: September 21, 2006, 01:40:45 am »
It seems that in his presentation of the "Aviation week" Russian pseudo-Atomic plane, Matej used this page :
http://modelstories.free.fr/histokits/A-plane_P/page7.html
but he forgot to copy the other picture in that page which puts the whole affair in a totally different light. This is an editorial from the French magazine Aviation Magazine dated January 1st 1959 (hence the following week after Aviation Week article).
here is a rough translation :
" Fakes bringing gold :
we don't want to say the Russian A-plane does not exist. Our very own sources tell us that the Russian engineers put a big effort regarding this subject. But to swallow the super-bomber "discovered" by Aviation Week it needs a bold step.
We will therefore take this opportunity to reveal the politico-budgetary undertones of this question. Everyone will recall how , five years ago, Aviation Week did a big detailed article about the new Russian super-bombers Tu-200 and IL-38,(which never existed). This astonishing article was published just days before the Congress discussed the budget of the Strategic air Command which at the time was menaced by severe budget cuts. Thanks to this article and the said Soviet menace, the SAC budget became taboo.
Now , december 1958, aviation week reveals in exclusivity a Russian atomic bomber...
And we just have to reprint what our colleagues of "le Figaro" [a top political evening newspaper in France] said : by a remarkable coincidence , this affair happens when President Eisenhower has announced his will to reduce defense spendings and will today -december 2nd- review the military budgets in the National Security Council.... many interests are then to be discussed which would be served by the announcement of another "triumph" of the Soviets.
Mr Mac Elroy the Secretary of Defense is sceptical. He ought to be when seeing the drawing of the said A-plane which Aviation Week has largely distributed through many press agencies. The artist who drew it could at least have drawn a believable aircraft."

Now if Aviation Magazine did not believe in it , the model manufacturer Aurora did !


but whatever the model kit , this is very interesting in that it suggests the whole affair was not a question of misidentified "Bounder" but really a political scam using a fake aircraft to protect the "militaro-industrial complex" interests !!!

JCC

Offline frank

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Re: Western Artists' Concepts of Soviet aircraft during the Cold War
« Reply #38 on: September 21, 2006, 10:14:47 am »

      ISTR reading in an issue of The Bulletin of the Russian Aviation Research Group of Air Britain some years ago a listing of misidentified a/c. I think the most prominent one was the MiG "Fearless", which I think was a twin engined version of the MiG-23, or maybe a VG version of the MiG-25, supposedly. I don't know if "Fearless" turned out to be "Fencer" or what, but it went away. The fact it was given a NATO code name was a big deal. Also listed were altered photos, but not shown, a number of types. One that comes to mind is an altered photo of the CF-105 Arrow, supposed to be a MiG of some sort. There was also reported a USSR 'copy' of the F-4 Phantom II. I know there were others, but these are the ones that come to mind.

Offline frank

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Re: Western Artists' Concepts of Soviet aircraft during the Cold War
« Reply #39 on: September 21, 2006, 06:25:40 pm »

      Was that the one that looked like Tu-144 wings & tail with hardly any fuselage? I always wondered if there was a Tu-144 bomber variant. In an old Wings or Airpower magazine there's a a small drawing of a Tu-144 with shorter aft fuselage & conventional nose / windshield claimed to be an early Tu-160 proposal, but I've never seen it elsewhere that made it seem 'official'. I believe the issue was from arund 1990. I saw some mention somewhere that RAM-H was the Tu-144D, so maybe that was the Tu-144 bomber they thought.


The Tupolev Tu-160 original configuration was heavily based on the Tu-144. Tupolev also tried to push various cruise missile carrier, recce, ecm, even interceptor versions of the Tu-144 through the 70s.

Offline PaulMM (Overscan)

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Re: Western Artists' Concepts of Soviet aircraft during the Cold War
« Reply #40 on: September 23, 2006, 04:29:15 pm »
Found the Fearless.

Its described as a "new variable geometry air superiority fighter developed by the Mikoyan bureau", undergoing flight testing, according to US sources.

T/W Ratio: 1.2:1
Gross weight: 40,000lb
2 x 24,000lb turbojets

Source:
Air Enthusiast December 1971
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Re: Western Artists' Concepts of Soviet aircraft during the Cold War
« Reply #41 on: September 29, 2006, 03:55:01 am »
Service testing of a new single seat single engine fighter with double delta (a la Viggen) wing, closely resembling the "Faithless", intended as the MiG-21 successor.

Air International October 1974
"They can't see our arses for dust."
 
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Offline Hood

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Re: Western Artists' Concepts of Soviet aircraft during the Cold War
« Reply #42 on: September 30, 2006, 08:05:48 am »
I picked up this handy book in a charity book fair in the UK, 'Future Fighters and Combat Aircraft' by Bill Gunston Salamander Books 1984. (This book is almost as old as me!)

In it is loads of 1980s projects and some of the MiG-29 and Su-27.

Unfortunatley I haven't got a scanner  :-[ so I can't give you any pics. These following profiles were drawn specially from the latest data in 1984.

It has the An-124, here as the An-400 Condor. It looks a bit like the real aircraft but a bit fatter with a upward hingeing door like the Galaxy event hough the text ndicates such a door was unlikely.

The MiG-29 has the LERX with the intakes under them, they are similar to the F-15 intakes , the canopy is very large for all-round vision, twin fins mounted above the engines and ventral fins. Wingtip missiles are also shown.

The Su-27 is very similar and looks more like the early T-10 designs, boxy intakes are well back from the leading edge under the LERX. Outward canted twin fins are mounted above the engines and there are ventral fins, the parachute/radar housing between the engiens is also present. In all this design looks very neat, of note are conformal packs like FAST along the lower fuselage.

A DOD drawing of the Tu-160 was included but the Mil-28 Havoc was not illustrated.

This book also has tons of other projects many here will find very interesting. :)

Offline pometablava

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Re: Western Artists' Concepts of Soviet aircraft during the Cold War
« Reply #43 on: October 01, 2006, 10:50:22 am »
Hi Hood,

I have this book and it's a very nice source for this kind of fake Soviet aircraft. I'll dig again on my archives in search of a An-400 profile you'll love.

By the moment two new additions from Revista de Aeronáutica Number 208 March 1958

1. Romboidal wing fighter

2. Professor Blagonrawow (can you confirm its existence Flateric?. I haven't heard that name ???). shown this drawing in a conference about Soviet existing projects on nuclear powered aircraft. The tilt-wing design is particulary amazing!

Enjoy folks :)


Offline elmayerle

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Re: Western Artists' Concepts of Soviet aircraft during the Cold War
« Reply #44 on: October 03, 2006, 09:33:01 pm »
Service testing of a new single seat single engine fighter with double delta (a la Viggen) wing, closely resembling the "Faithless", intended as the MiG-21 successor.

Air International October 1974

Consdiering some of the Mikoyan OKB's studies, this one likely isn't that far off in describing a study, just nothing that metal was cut on.

Offline flateric

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Re: Western Artists' Concepts of Soviet aircraft during the Cold War
« Reply #45 on: October 04, 2006, 12:21:06 am »
Professor Blagonrawow (can you confirm its existence Flateric?. I haven't heard that name ???). shown this drawing in a conference about Soviet existing projects on nuclear powered aircraft. The tilt-wing design is particulary amazing!

Yep, he's a real person http://www.cosmoworld.ru/spacehistory/firsts/blagonravov.html
I remember I have somewhere hi-res pic of a/c shown in lower right corner (from DDR aviation annnual ca.1969) - I sure that it's true what-if a-la all these drawings from PopSci or PopMech of these golden years of 'what-ifs' with nuclear-powered refrigerators at every kitchen etc.
"There are many disbelievers in
stealth, more than a few of them truly technically ignorant and proud of it." Sherm Mullin, Skunk Works

Offline pometablava

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Re: Western Artists' Concepts of Soviet aircraft during the Cold War
« Reply #46 on: October 04, 2006, 04:33:23 pm »
Thank you very much Gregory ;)

Offline Matej

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Re: Western Artists' Concepts of Soviet aircraft during the Cold War
« Reply #47 on: October 05, 2006, 12:28:26 am »
The tilt-wing design is particulary amazing!

Maybe it is not tilt-wing and this plane is just a few seconds before full disintegration and crash  :D ;D

Bizarre aviation expert.

Offline Dronte

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Re: Western Artists' Concepts of Soviet aircraft during the Cold War
« Reply #48 on: October 05, 2006, 06:00:43 pm »
Another "Hokum"

(Muy Interesante magazine-oct1989)


Offline PaulMM (Overscan)

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Re: Western Artists' Concepts of Soviet aircraft during the Cold War
« Reply #49 on: October 05, 2006, 11:43:15 pm »
Quote
A new, extremely agile single-engined multirole fighter closely comparable with the General Dynamics F-16 and designated MiG-35 was flown recently by Indian Air Force pilots... Indian interest in the MiG-35 is understood to be primarily as a fallback in the event that the indigenous LCA does not proceed.

Air International August 1988
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Offline Hood

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Re: Western Artists' Concepts of Soviet aircraft during the Cold War
« Reply #50 on: October 12, 2006, 05:32:24 am »
Reading through my copy of 'The World's fighting Planes' 4th Ed. by William Green and published by Macdonald: London in 1964 I noticed a few guesses on new Soviet aircraft.

Most data was provisional and most photos were grainy offical Soviet pictures.

It gave the Be-10 Mallow a good report on its performance by going by the FAI records it set.

MiG-23 Flipper, or what we know today as the Ye-152 "is potentially one of the best current short-range, single-seat all-weather fighters extant, and is presumably intended to form a team in the I.A.-P.V.O. with surface-launched missiles and the longer-ranged Fiddler." It goes on to describe the 'Awl' IR-guided AAM on the pylons and the intake cone was presumed to house a 28" A.I. radar with a range of thirty miles. It mentions a centre-line pylon for fuel tanks and a rocket pack as well.

There were good line drawings of the YaK-25 Mandrake and other YaK-25 variants that were quite accurate.

The Tu-128 'Fiddler' was thought to be a Yakolev product as was the 'Backfin' bomber wcih it acknowldeges to have failed to enter VVS service. A poor shot featured a large ventral pannier, which I believe was for fuel, but they presume it to be, "a large ventral radar bulge whcih may be prepared to house high-definition ground mapping radar." It even mentions a ventral bay in a bomber version which it compares to the TSR.2.

Other gems in the book include the VFW.1262, EWR-Sud VJ 101D, the first public artists impressions of the SAAB Viggen, the Helouan HA-300, TSR.2 before it was cancelled, an ealry drawing of the F-111, a very accurate drawing and model of the Vought A-7 and loads on the YF-12A and it predicts the SR-71 was unlikely to be built or serve for very long.

Offline elmayerle

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Re: Western Artists' Concepts of Soviet aircraft during the Cold War
« Reply #51 on: October 13, 2006, 01:01:39 am »
I've also seen a reference in which the TU-22 has the NATO Code Name "Beauty" and the TU-128 is believed to be a bomber and given the NATO code name "Blinder".  Once the TU-128 was recognized as a fighter, I understand someone in NATO had the TU-22 renamed as "Blinder" because "Beauty" was "too good a name for a Soviet bomber".  Again, this is strictly rumor.

Offline boxkite

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Re: Western Artists' Concepts of Soviet aircraft during the Cold War
« Reply #52 on: October 14, 2006, 12:03:50 pm »
Quote
[From Matej]

Desinterpretation of what is this? Or pure fantasy?
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
russian delta wing concept.jpg (53.55 KB, 468x619 - viewed 49 times.)

Back to the “Rauten-MiG” or “MiG-Raute“ (= rhomb) – this was the name given by West German magazines to the rhomboidal wing fighter (see pometablava/Aug 17 & Oct 01, 2006 & Matej/Aug 25, 2006). I asked my friend Helge Bergander because he is a profound expert on Soviet aircraft and very familiar with original newspapers and magazines from the 1950s and 1960s. This is what he wrote about the mysterious fighter:

An article written by A I Mikoyan was published on June 19, 1954 (it was the eve of the Tushino parade) in the daily newspaper “Sovietskaya Literatura” (!) and came like a bomb to western aviation circles. The parade itself was totally uninteresting. The article was also published in British and US magazines (e. g., Aviation Week Sept 20, 1954).
The “Rhomb(us) MiG” which was 'created' by western editorial offices based on this article. They contained two misinterpretations:
-    Mikoyan doesn't write about MiGs, but about the whole Soviet aviation industry.
-    The term “rhomboidal wing” came from the TsAGI and doesn't mean the rhomb as an mathematic-geometrical term, but a delta wing with negative swept trailing edge as used on the Tsybin RSR, Myasishchev M-54, and Convair B-58.
Interestingly, you can find a more correct interpretation in the excellent translation by the Aviation Week from 1954 – the Russian original specialized literature came up with this statement/definition not before 1990!”


Btw, Helge Bergander is working on a history of the Soviet air shows on the Day of the Air Fleet between 1945-1967. It's a treasure chest for all who are interested in the history of (right and wrong) 'naming' of Soviet aircraft by western spectators. He investigated dozens of Soviet (and others) newspapers, magazines, books and videos to show mistakes (e. g. spread by Y. G.'s books). If you are interested, gentlemen, please use the time to learn German ;D.


 
 

Offline pometablava

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Re: Western Artists' Concepts of Soviet aircraft during the Cold War
« Reply #53 on: December 31, 2006, 04:06:49 am »
Hallo Boxkite

I'm interested in Helge Bergander work :). My German is limited but enough to read aerospace info. Please keep me updated.

I wrote this list this today. Information comes from Spanish Magazine "Avión" March 1956 Issue.


Offline pometablava

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Re: Western Artists' Concepts of Soviet aircraft during the Cold War
« Reply #54 on: December 31, 2006, 04:12:10 am »
Fighter info from Avión April 1956 Issue


MiG
>
>MiG-19 (page 150): "Flying Barrel", shown in Tushino on 1951. A  possible
>failure. According to some sources entered in service by  1953 but in very
>limited numbers. The Fresco was prefered for mass- production.
>
>Super-MiG: missidentified as MiG-17 some years ago. Probably based on  a
>twin-jet MiG-15 development. A version with nose radome and lateral
>intakes seems to have been existed. Anyway the type never went beyond  the
>prototype stage.
>
>Super-MiG or Mik-21: The G from Gurevitch would be lost. Twin engine
>project. Provisional arrangement illustrated in the attached pics.
>
>Romboidal wing: exotic but not a new configuration (also studied in  the
>West). I HAD NO IDEA!. This configuration should overcome  defficiences
>known with delta wings. There are little info about it  other than that
>from yellow press from USA. It is known that a  prototype was flown in
>Ramenskoye were 15 different fighter  prototypes had been tested at the
>same time. Its existence was  confirmed by Mr Mikoyan at Radio Moscow.
>
>LAVOCHKIN
>
>La-17 versions: an interim fighter with nose radar (similar to that
>illustrated for the MiG-15) has been fielded while waiting for a
>deffinitive all-weather fighter. A 2-crew assault has been tested but  no
>adopted. Lateral intakes leaving a pointed nose for a radar and 4  cannons
>instalation.
>
>La-26: nothing more has been heard about this all-weather twin jet.
>
>Me-262 analogues: in 1946 a limited number of jets with Me-262
>configuration entered service with Soviet Air Force. It was suposed  to be
>a Lavochkin type and designated La-8. A further improvement  from 1948 was
>given the La-13 number. It was a straight wing type  with underwing poded
>engines. Armament was 4 NS 23 mm in the nose.
>
>La-16: a 1949 evolution from La-8/13 types with swept surfaces and
>armament allocated in the forward fuselage sides to allow instalation  of a
>powerful radar in the nose. The first public apearance in  Tushino 1955 of
>an all weather interceptor codenamed Flashlight seems  to be the final
>developmental stage of the La-16.
>
>Nevertheless the Flashlight shows several differences in detail with  the
>La-16 and nobody can be sure even the Flashlight is a Lavokhin  product.
>
>
>
>TUPOLEV
>
>By 1954 rumors from German sources indicated a Tupolev all weather  fighter
>had entered series production by 1953. It was similar  configured as the
>French Vatour. Data was
>
>Weight: 12 Tm
>
>Lenght: 16 m
>
>Span: 15 m
>
>Engines: 2 turbojet 2250 kg thurst each
>
>Speed: 975 Km/h
>
>Ceiling: 12000 m
>
>
>
>YAKOVLEV
>
>Yak-25 Farmer: Shown in Tushino in 1955. Mass produced. Clearly
>supersonic. Some sources are claiming that it could outperform the  F-100
>being paired to the still secret F-104. Estimated data: Klimov  VK-5b with
>4000 Kg dry Thurst. Max speed: 1,2 to 1,3 Mach. Armament:   4 NS 23 mm.
>Lenght: 9,80 m, Span: 10,60 m.
>
>Yakovlev seems to work in  a flying boat fighter and a rocket fighter  too.

Offline pometablava

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Re: Western Artists' Concepts of Soviet aircraft during the Cold War
« Reply #55 on: December 31, 2006, 04:14:14 am »
BTW, anyone knows where comes the ZAGI designators from it? why it was supposed to be real Soviet designation system?. What does ZAGI means?
Thanks
« Last Edit: December 31, 2006, 04:16:09 am by pometablava »

Offline boxkite

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Re: Western Artists' Concepts of Soviet aircraft during the Cold War
« Reply #56 on: December 31, 2006, 04:25:04 am »
I don't know if the TsAGI (German transliteration is ZAGI) really used/uses type designations (see APR Soviet Seaplane Bombers). But the 'ZAGI-228' (-> Tu-16) and 'ZAGI-428' (M-4) are definitely creations of the west.

Antonio, I've got my printed copy of Helge Bergander's work right at time before Xmas. He is working on a CD-ROM version, so I'll ask him to make a copy for you as soon as it is finished.

Offline mrdetonator

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Re: Western Artists' Concepts of Soviet aircraft during the Cold War
« Reply #57 on: January 01, 2007, 05:59:32 am »
Btw, Helge Bergander is working on a history of the Soviet air shows on the Day of the Air Fleet between 1945-1967. It's a treasure chest for all who are interested in the history of (right and wrong) 'naming' of Soviet aircraft by western spectators. He investigated dozens of Soviet (and others) newspapers, magazines, books and videos to show mistakes (e. g. spread by Y. G.'s books). If you are interested, gentlemen, please use the time to learn German ;D.
I never heard of Helge Bergander, who is he(she) anyway? When you want the truth I`d recommend to start learning russian instead of wasting time with german. Why learning a language which is still screwing-up the cyrillic alphabet? The russian name "ЦАГИ" we (slavs using latin instead of cyrillic) transliterate and pronounce аs "CAGI" (Central Aerohydrodynamic Institute), not ZAGI nor TsAGI.
The "CAGI" was used as an aircraft type designations till the end of worldwar II. The institute itself was officially founded in 1918 in Moscow by N. E. Zhukovsky, at the time already running independent design bureaus. A.N. Tupolev, the cofounder and a student of N.E.Zhukovsky was working in one of the Institute`s design bureaus. Later he founded his own bureau OKB.Tupolev. 
Search the russian internet, it is full of interesting things, e.g.
http://www.rusarchives.ru/secret/index.shtml
There was an agreement signed in 1946-49 about the aircraft naming system of the post-war USSR. I`ve seen it there(the above given website), but now can`t find it. :-[ Then the CAGI designation disappeared, but it might have been used for internal purposes(aerodynamics concepts investigated).
« Last Edit: January 01, 2007, 06:02:55 am by mrdetonator »

Offline PaulMM (Overscan)

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Re: Western Artists' Concepts of Soviet aircraft during the Cold War
« Reply #58 on: January 01, 2007, 06:28:52 am »
"Ц" transliterated as "C" is misleading in English at least, because "C" can be pronounced hard ("cat" with the k sound) or soft ("central" with the s sound). If I see "CAGI" I immediately think "KAGI" which is not correct; "Ц" is the soft C of "central". Therefore transliterating as "Ts" makes perfect sense in English to clarify the pronounciation.
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Re: Western Artists' Concepts of Soviet aircraft during the Cold War
« Reply #59 on: January 01, 2007, 06:34:43 am »
"I've also seen a reference in which the TU-22 has the NATO Code Name "Beauty" "

This reporting name is mentioned as the second choice in the current AI issue, too.
According to this article, the first name given to the Tu-22, "Bullshot", was rejected,
as inappropriate and "Beauty" was felt as beeing too complimentary, so "Blinder"
was chosen...
Seems to have been interesting business in NATO's ASCC (Air Standards Co-ordinating
Commitee,  or better  ... Comedy ??)    ;D
It takes a long time, before all mistakes are made ...

Offline mrdetonator

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Re: Western Artists' Concepts of Soviet aircraft during the Cold War
« Reply #60 on: January 01, 2007, 07:18:29 am »
"Ц" transliterated as "C" is misleading in English at least, because "C" can be pronounced hard ("cat" with the k sound) or soft ("central" with the s sound). If I see "CAGI" I immediately think "KAGI" which is not correct; "Ц" is the soft C of "central". Therefore transliterating as "Ts" makes perfect sense in English to clarify the pronounciation.
I understand, but I think this somehow non-standart transliteration to English is(was) causing mess in the aircraft naming system. For example, a russian designer "Павел Цыбин", designed the aircraft "Ц-1". Transliteration to my language is quite simple and logic, a designer "Pavel Cybin" designed the aircraft "C-1", because our grammar says "write the way you hear". Opposite to that, in English you write about designer "Pavel Tsybin" who designed aircraft "Ts-1". Then when we(also russians) look at the aircraft name "Ts-1" we see there two totaly different letters "T" and "S", but hell he never designed aircraft with that name ;D.....do you understand me?
   

Offline Meteorit

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Re: Western Artists' Concepts of Soviet aircraft during the Cold War
« Reply #61 on: January 01, 2007, 08:50:42 am »
Btw, Helge Bergander is working on a history of the Soviet air shows on the Day of the Air Fleet between 1945-1967. It's a treasure chest for all who are interested in the history of (right and wrong) 'naming' of Soviet aircraft by western spectators. He investigated dozens of Soviet (and others) newspapers, magazines, books and videos to show mistakes (e. g. spread by Y. G.'s books). If you are interested, gentlemen, please use the time to learn German ;D.
I never heard of Helge Bergander, who is he(she) anyway? When you want the truth I`d recommend to start learning russian instead of wasting time with german.

But I got the impression that the work would be focused on Western (incorrect) designations, in which case I think Western sources would obviously be appropriate. ???

Offline PaulMM (Overscan)

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Re: Western Artists' Concepts of Soviet aircraft during the Cold War
« Reply #62 on: January 01, 2007, 09:00:38 am »
I see your point, but Russian has a number of extra letters, and it will always be difficult to represent these sensibly. If you check:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Transliteration_of_Russian_into_English

You will see a number of "standards" here, all of which differ!
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Offline mrdetonator

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Re: Western Artists' Concepts of Soviet aircraft during the Cold War
« Reply #63 on: January 01, 2007, 12:06:50 pm »
I see, the BGN/PCGN system is causing this all. At least there could be some kind of exceptions in the English grammar when dealing with foreign-language names, designations or abbreviations. In case of the "ЦАГИ=CAGI", why not thinking about soft pronounciation (with the s sound) of the first letter, because abbreviation CAGI is starting with word CENTRAL ... not the word  "TsENTRAL"?  After all you pronounce words "CENTER" and "SECTOR" the same way.

Some soviet aircraft naming theory.... :)
http://www.airwar.ru/other/ussr.html


OT:Generally, the whole transition from east to west style thinking and flying a combat plane is causing a lot of troubles. After our country became the NATO member, airforce pilots accustomed to fly with metric units have been forced to switch to imperial ones. I`ve heard some times that after flying those "imperialized" Migs-29, some "senior" pilots had no idea, what altitude, speed or what distance they`ve flown. Flying according to imperial units is for us like "scratching left ear with right hand", simply illogical, impractical and almost stupid. :D I wonder whether russians will ever switch to imperial units.   
« Last Edit: January 01, 2007, 12:15:08 pm by mrdetonator »

Offline Pit

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Re: Western Artists' Concepts of Soviet aircraft during the Cold War
« Reply #64 on: January 01, 2007, 12:22:37 pm »
More important that adhering to imperial units, stablishing Broadcast comms/Bullseye Air Ops procedures specially on Air Interception duties is a must.

Enough of Close Control doctrines for me please  ;D

Offline mrdetonator

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Re: Western Artists' Concepts of Soviet aircraft during the Cold War
« Reply #65 on: January 01, 2007, 01:13:07 pm »
establishing Broadcast comms/Bullseye Air Ops procedures specially on Air Interception duties is a must.
Tell me about that. There are instructions in the airforce forbiding to have two military aircrafts flying in the airspace one in metric, the other one in imperial units. This can have a fatal outcome. Well, sometimes.......no comment ;D  The transition is a painful process, not only for pilots. What is the situation with your country now when you received pure russian fighters? thanks
« Last Edit: January 01, 2007, 01:30:43 pm by mrdetonator »

Offline Pit

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Re: Western Artists' Concepts of Soviet aircraft during the Cold War
« Reply #66 on: January 01, 2007, 01:44:43 pm »
I have moved the discussion on Su-30MK2 of the Venezuelan Air Force to apropiate topic:

http://www.secretprojects.co.uk/forum/index.php/topic,1157.0.html

Regards
« Last Edit: January 02, 2007, 12:34:35 pm by Pit »

Offline mrdetonator

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Re: Western Artists' Concepts of Soviet aircraft during the Cold War
« Reply #67 on: January 02, 2007, 08:07:05 am »
Thanks for the short introductory summary of the Su-30MK2 implementation. Do you have any detailed information about those "special modifications" carried out for the FAV? The degree of "westernization" always depends on customer requirements. You`ve said that Sukhois were mostly fitted with russian avionics sets. Why is that anyway? Definitely, it would help to recognize them when I see more detailed photos of sukhoi aircrafts. Although, I have to admit my knowledge about nowadays russian nav/comm/iff might be somewhat limited, because we replaced them with Rockwell/Collins and Bae equipment. Then we can also move(reposting) to the appropriate thread.


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Re: Western Artists' Concepts of Soviet aircraft during the Cold War
« Reply #68 on: January 02, 2007, 04:23:31 pm »
Boxkite,

How can I obtain a copy of Helge Bergander's "History of the Soviet Aviation Day 1945-1967" - print version or on CD-ROM?


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Re: Western Artists' Concepts of Soviet aircraft during the Cold War
« Reply #69 on: January 02, 2007, 04:48:16 pm »
1984 way-of-thinking of modern Soviet a/c...An-124 was An-400 tnen. From Bill Gunston's Illustrated Guide to Modern Fighters...
"There are many disbelievers in
stealth, more than a few of them truly technically ignorant and proud of it." Sherm Mullin, Skunk Works

Offline Hood

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Re: Western Artists' Concepts of Soviet aircraft during the Cold War
« Reply #70 on: January 03, 2007, 05:52:28 am »
Those pictures Flateric are the ones I have, and described earlier in this thread from Bill Gunston's 'Future Warplanes' by Salamander Press.

Good looking profiles even if they were not that close to the truth.

Offline LowObservable

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Re: Western Artists' Concepts of Soviet aircraft during the Cold War
« Reply #71 on: January 05, 2007, 02:30:45 pm »
Flateric's pix were originally derived from USAF public briefing documents. They were shown on screens but not handed out.
Shortly thereafter the practice of packing Leica R3 with 180mm/2.8 lens into such events was discouraged  ;D.

Offline LowObservable

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Re: Western Artists' Concepts of Soviet aircraft during the Cold War
« Reply #72 on: January 05, 2007, 02:32:47 pm »
By the way, I remember hearing somewhere that "Fearless" was never an assigned codename. It was a name given to a US-developed projected threat, a pre-1979 idea of what the follow-on to the MiG-23 would look like.

Offline PaulMM (Overscan)

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Re: Western Artists' Concepts of Soviet aircraft during the Cold War
« Reply #73 on: January 05, 2007, 02:43:53 pm »
Well, I found the original mention of "Fearless" in 1971. Perhaps it was a US "design study" of a possible Soviet response to the F-15 program made during the F-15 development?
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Offline red admiral

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Re: Western Artists' Concepts of Soviet aircraft during the Cold War
« Reply #74 on: May 30, 2007, 03:33:52 pm »
http://www.ww2incolor.com/forum/showthread.php?t=4648&page=6

I recently found this picture of a large post-war aircraft at the above address. Its labelled as the Tupolev-487 but a search through things has no mention of it. Is it actually called this or is it something else?

Thanks

Offline flateric

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Re: Western Artists' Concepts of Soviet aircraft during the Cold War
« Reply #75 on: May 30, 2007, 04:02:40 pm »
Another fake pic. For more on fake western 'Tupolev' designs, look here
http://www.secretprojects.co.uk/forum/index.php/topic,850.0.html
"There are many disbelievers in
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Offline flateric

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Re: Western Artists' Concepts of Soviet aircraft during the Cold War
« Reply #76 on: August 30, 2007, 09:35:03 am »
Cute remains of Cold War...Lot of placards 'This Is The Threat' issued by McDonnell Douglas in 80s. Note 'Su-19 Fencer' - obviously, hard attempt to imagine Su-24
« Last Edit: August 30, 2007, 09:36:35 am by flateric »
"There are many disbelievers in
stealth, more than a few of them truly technically ignorant and proud of it." Sherm Mullin, Skunk Works

Offline LowObservable

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Re: Western Artists' Concepts of Soviet aircraft during the Cold War
« Reply #77 on: August 31, 2007, 02:54:54 pm »
Whoa!  Does that take LO back in time... I had a set of those things once, maybe still hiding in filing cabinet.
Sources were limited at the time and one had to make do... AvWeek occasionally got sight of intel materials of one kind or another, but reproduction and (I suspect) sketching were verboten and strange results (like original Backfire with tiny swing-wing panels) ensued. Flug Revue got some excellent pix of new-in-service types, acquired by Military Missions in East Germany, but the practice was highly unofficial, probably illegal and most likely not even tacitly sanctioned by high sheriffs.
Best bet was to treat everything as source material and analyse as far as possible, avoiding tendency to mirror-image...
Of course, some things turn out not to have been as fake as one might have thought... for instance, the "canard MiG-21 replacement" could have been Ye-8. And that tailless-delta Chinese fighter... suffice it to say that one saw a very interesting satellite image a year or so ago, that source would not release.



Offline Just call me Ray

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Re: Western Artists' Concepts of Soviet aircraft during the Cold War
« Reply #78 on: September 01, 2007, 10:41:40 am »
Cute remains of Cold War...Lot of placards 'This Is The Threat' issued by McDonnell Douglas in 80s. Note 'Su-19 Fencer' - obviously, hard attempt to imagine Su-24

Woah, can you tell about the history behind those placards? An attempt to my McDD to say "This is the Threat, and the McDD F-15 Eagle is the answer?" ;)
It's a crappy self-made pic of a Lockheed Unmanned Combat Armed Rotorcraft (UCAR), BTW
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Offline flateric

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Re: Western Artists' Concepts of Soviet aircraft during the Cold War
« Reply #79 on: September 01, 2007, 10:54:57 am »
I've just found them on eBay.
« Last Edit: September 01, 2007, 11:11:59 am by flateric »
"There are many disbelievers in
stealth, more than a few of them truly technically ignorant and proud of it." Sherm Mullin, Skunk Works

Offline LowObservable

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Re: Western Artists' Concepts of Soviet aircraft during the Cold War
« Reply #80 on: September 04, 2007, 08:14:01 pm »
Flateric, I'm blamed sure that those are from the 1970s rather than the 1980s based on where I remember seeing them. (Damn!  Langley or the Lubyanka... so hard to remember after all those pentothol martinis.) But the idea was that the Soviet Union was modernizing and we wer not going to be looking at just piles of MiG-21s and Su-7s for ever.

Offline frank

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Re: Western Artists' Concepts of Soviet aircraft during the Cold War
« Reply #81 on: September 05, 2007, 06:05:23 am »

   I've got a set of those too, left over from the USAR unit that was at my airport until '96.

Offline hesham

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Re: Western Artists' Concepts of Soviet aircraft during the Cold War
« Reply #82 on: October 17, 2007, 10:28:12 am »
Hi,

about the MiG-2000 is not a new project,I have some
pictures for it from 1980s,and all of its details appeared
in a Arabic magazine by that time.
« Last Edit: October 17, 2007, 10:31:03 am by hesham »

Offline flateric

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Re: Western Artists' Concepts of Soviet aircraft during the Cold War
« Reply #83 on: October 17, 2007, 10:57:45 am »
Is term prognosis known to you? MIG-2000 was a GD prognosis of how Soviet advanced fighter would look in year 2000.
No one here says that it's a new project.
« Last Edit: October 17, 2007, 10:59:18 am by flateric »
"There are many disbelievers in
stealth, more than a few of them truly technically ignorant and proud of it." Sherm Mullin, Skunk Works

Offline PaulMM (Overscan)

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Re: Western Artists' Concepts of Soviet aircraft during the Cold War
« Reply #84 on: November 25, 2007, 08:52:11 am »
1984 way-of-thinking of modern Soviet a/c...An-124 was An-400 tnen. From Bill Gunston's Illustrated Guide to Modern Fighters...

Actually, An-124 was Izdeliye 400, so it was the Antonov "400", just not the An-400.
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Re: Western Artists' Concepts of Soviet aircraft during the Cold War
« Reply #85 on: December 04, 2007, 12:54:00 pm »
Well, I found the original mention of "Fearless" in 1971. Perhaps it was a US "design study" of a possible Soviet response to the F-15 program made during the F-15 development?

Flight comes to the rescue:

Quote
In this context the majority of Grumman briefings to the US Navy and to potential customers are based on the comparative performance of the Tomcat against four aircraft: the MiG-25 Foxbat, a hypothetical Soviet fighter codenamed Fearless and estimated to have flown last year, the Fishbed-J, and the F-4J Phantom. The Foxbat has from time to time hypnotised the American Administration with its Mach 3/80,000ft performance and is considered to represent the upper end of the adversaries which the F-14 may have to fight. Fearless is an extrapolation of Soviet technology thought to represent a new variable-geometry air-superiority fighter by Mikoyan, with a weight and speed of about 40,000 lb and Mach 2.6.

http://www.flightglobal.com/PDFArchive/View/1973/1973%20-%202460.html
"They can't see our arses for dust."
 
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Offline pometablava

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Re: Western Artists' Concepts of Soviet aircraft during the Cold War
« Reply #86 on: December 16, 2007, 06:42:47 am »
From reply#21

Quote
Also from "Avión" but from March 1956 issue.

This is an hypotetical nuclear powered bomber

I have found the origin of this drawing here

http://www.retro-futurismus.de/binder_gigantatom.htm




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Re: Western Artists' Concepts of Soviet aircraft during the Cold War
« Reply #87 on: December 18, 2007, 03:06:41 pm »
Avion Revue (Spanish magazine) December 1983.

When An-124 was missidentified as An-400 in Western Press...at Avion Revue missidentified the missidentification = Antonov An-40

Offline Justo Miranda

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Re: Western Artists' Concepts of Soviet aircraft during the Cold War
« Reply #88 on: January 08, 2008, 01:50:23 pm »
Hi,

I have some unknown drawings to me. Could anyone help me identify them, please?
« Last Edit: January 11, 2013, 04:54:26 am by Stargazer2006 »

Offline starviking

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Re: Western Artists' Concepts of Soviet aircraft during the Cold War
« Reply #89 on: January 08, 2008, 11:15:37 pm »
Hi,

I have some unknown drawings to me. Could anyone help me identify them, please?

Hmm...Isn't that tailless delta in Buttler and Gordon's Soviet Fighter Projects?

Starviking

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Re: Western Artists' Concepts of Soviet aircraft during the Cold War
« Reply #90 on: January 09, 2008, 12:45:36 am »
The overall configuration is similar to Antonov's "M" fighter design, and associated E-153 glider. A number of detail differences though.

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Re: Western Artists' Concepts of Soviet aircraft during the Cold War
« Reply #91 on: January 09, 2008, 12:53:17 am »
Second tailless fighter is obviously someone's imagination from the Cold War era, but may be based on leaks on Antonov's OKB-153 'M' (Masha) fighter studies from late 40s - early 50s. Drawings are not a product of factory artist anyway - first of all, stars size are beyond any standarts, and cutaway is truly speculative - while a while was published here on 'M', no author has found anything like this in Antonov archives.

http://www.avia-an.ru/an_m.php
http://www.airwar.ru/enc/xplane/an.html
Photo shows E-153, unmotored flying testbed of 'M', which is closest thing to drawings, except lack of intakes, which glider just didn't need.
« Last Edit: January 09, 2008, 05:51:12 am by flateric »
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Offline borovik

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Re: Western Artists' Concepts of Soviet aircraft during the Cold War
« Reply #92 on: January 09, 2008, 05:28:20 am »
About soviet fighter : Last year I their own eye  :o saw on one of the russian site this plane, as BICH-26 (1946).
Regrettably I have not saved their web address, and yesterday's (night), and present-day (matutinal) of the attempt nor to that have not brought... To my strong beliefs this is not reality. The Truth in answer Flateric. This is a collective image west artist early period of the cold war,  for base plane Antonov's. in this instance, like other ROMBOIDS
fighter :http://www.secretprojects.co.uk/forum/index.php?topic=3266.msg26422;topicseen#msg26422
We shall Take to example one of like sources book D.MYHRA "Secret aircraft designs of the third reich " Shiffer M.H.(see please ris.1) If upper drawing this I-270 "Zh" OKB Mikoyan, or LL-1 Cybin  ;D then lower drawing An "M".
The Drawing 2 one more scenes from the same source.
(! Very indistinctive for soviet artist incommensurate stars!)
Respectfully yours Anatoliy.
(Apologize.Machine translation)
« Last Edit: January 11, 2013, 04:59:14 am by Stargazer2006 »

Offline lark

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Re: Western Artists' Concepts of Soviet aircraft during the Cold War
« Reply #93 on: January 09, 2008, 10:59:04 am »
In 'Air Force -the magazine of Air Power'   March 1955
the straight winged aircraft is discribed as a rocket powered fighter
and designated Yak-21 !!! (by the author of the article)
Other sources - Le Moniteur de L'Aeronautique :May 1979 speaks about
the aircraft as the Type 11..

On the same pages in the Air Force magazine the Mig 'Romboid' ghost is also illustrated and
mention is made that it made test flight from Ramenskoye ....

Most probably these designs came from the fertile minds of some Western 'designers'
influenced  by the Cold War paranoia.

Offline Justo Miranda

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Re: Western Artists' Concepts of Soviet aircraft during the Cold War
« Reply #94 on: January 09, 2008, 12:02:51 pm »
Thanks everybody to help me classify these drawings in the right way.
I have obtained a copy of the Flugzeug article and found the drawing in the book by David Myhra.

I thought that the Russian airplane could be a development from the German Arado E-583 project (please see attached drawings).

I was not sure whether the twin Starfighter was a serious project as this type of double fuselage airplanes usually have a common tailplane that is more structurally efficient.

Offline Justo Miranda

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Re: Western Artists' Concepts of Soviet aircraft during the Cold War
« Reply #95 on: February 09, 2008, 05:59:43 pm »
Via Carlo Godel

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Re: Western Artists' Concepts of Soviet aircraft during the Cold War
« Reply #96 on: February 11, 2008, 12:47:35 am »
Very interesting!
As old Aurora kits:
« Last Edit: February 11, 2008, 06:51:48 am by Zizi6785 »

Offline hesham

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Re: Western Artists' Concepts of Soviet aircraft during the Cold War
« Reply #97 on: February 24, 2008, 10:46:17 am »
Hi,

the Tupolev Backfire speculation from Flightglobal in 1972, and the actual Backfire.
http://www.flightglobal.com/PDFArchive/View/1972/1972%20-%202865.html?search=soviet%20sst%20aircraft%20project
« Last Edit: March 12, 2008, 11:25:04 am by hesham »

Offline Jschmus

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Re: Western Artists' Concepts of Soviet aircraft during the Cold War
« Reply #98 on: March 28, 2008, 09:53:06 am »
I was looking around Wikipedia, and I found the following image in the article about the Su-25.

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/b/b2/Su-25artistconcept.jpg

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Re: Western Artists' Concepts of Soviet aircraft during the Cold War
« Reply #99 on: March 28, 2008, 12:30:52 pm »
Not too bad, I think, if the only basis perhaps was a blurred planview photo from a satellite.
It takes a long time, before all mistakes are made ...

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Re: Western Artists' Concepts of Soviet aircraft during the Cold War
« Reply #100 on: March 29, 2008, 03:02:08 pm »

        This one was from one of the early '80s USDOD series pubs, "Soviet Military Power 198x". 1983 I think.



I was looking around Wikipedia, and I found the following image in the article about the Su-25.

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/b/b2/Su-25artistconcept.jpg

Offline hesham

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Re: Western Artists' Concepts of Soviet aircraft during the Cold War
« Reply #102 on: April 20, 2008, 11:58:18 am »
"Sukhoi Su-1 and Su-2"
Well, although in this case at least the manufacturer was identified correctly
and the designation was wisely marked as "Flight designation" .
It takes a long time, before all mistakes are made ...

Offline PaulMM (Overscan)

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Re: Western Artists' Concepts of Soviet aircraft during the Cold War
« Reply #103 on: May 11, 2008, 01:03:38 pm »
Hughes Air Defence Systems - Soviet Stealth Bomber -  "The Threat".
"They can't see our arses for dust."
 
- Sir Sydney Camm

Offline sferrin

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Re: Western Artists' Concepts of Soviet aircraft during the Cold War
« Reply #104 on: May 11, 2008, 08:18:12 pm »
That's a nice one. 
"DARPA Hard"  It ain't what it use to be.

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Re: Western Artists' Concepts of Soviet aircraft during the Cold War
« Reply #105 on: May 12, 2008, 09:02:47 am »
That's a nice one. 

Ditto on that. Did you get this off the DVIC site or from elsewhere - and is there a higher-res version available?


Offline flateric

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Re: Western Artists' Concepts of Soviet aircraft during the Cold War
« Reply #106 on: May 12, 2008, 09:13:22 am »
It's from Hughes brochure
"There are many disbelievers in
stealth, more than a few of them truly technically ignorant and proud of it." Sherm Mullin, Skunk Works

Offline Meteorit

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Re: Western Artists' Concepts of Soviet aircraft during the Cold War
« Reply #107 on: May 12, 2008, 10:42:29 am »
Looks like the wings would have corrugated skin panels - must be really stealthy ;D

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Re: Western Artists' Concepts of Soviet aircraft during the Cold War
« Reply #108 on: May 12, 2008, 12:38:06 pm »
Based on a late Junkers design, reminiscent of the latest stealthy version of
the Ju 52, which was intended for the invasion of New York by paratroopers.
And still today most people think, Hugo Junkers had used corrugated iron just
to achieve a better rigidity !  The attached photo is from a top secret exercise,
using a model in original scale.   ;D
It takes a long time, before all mistakes are made ...

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Re: Western Artists' Concepts of Soviet aircraft during the Cold War
« Reply #109 on: May 13, 2008, 05:51:51 am »

     Bomber or fighter? I saw it in JDW many years ago & they said it was a stealth fighter.


Hughes Air Defence Systems - Soviet Stealth Bomber -  "The Threat".

Offline Trident

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Re: Western Artists' Concepts of Soviet aircraft during the Cold War
« Reply #110 on: May 13, 2008, 08:53:16 am »
Inspired by the SR-71 perhaps? There's more about it than the corrugated wing skin that reminds me of the Blackbird...

Offline Just call me Ray

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Re: Western Artists' Concepts of Soviet aircraft during the Cold War
« Reply #111 on: May 14, 2008, 01:23:22 am »
Based on a late Junkers design, reminiscent of the latest stealthy version of
the Ju 52, which was intended for the invasion of New York by paratroopers.
And still today most people think, Hugo Junkers had used corrugated iron just
to achieve a better rigidity !  The attached photo is from a top secret exercise,
using a model in original scale.   ;D

Someone's been playing Red Alert 2 too much :p
It's a crappy self-made pic of a Lockheed Unmanned Combat Armed Rotorcraft (UCAR), BTW
Even Saddam realized the hazard of airplanes, and was discovered hiding in a bunker.
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Offline PaulMM (Overscan)

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Re: Western Artists' Concepts of Soviet aircraft during the Cold War
« Reply #112 on: June 21, 2008, 12:54:16 pm »

     Bomber or fighter? I saw it in JDW many years ago & they said it was a stealth fighter.


Hughes Air Defence Systems - Soviet Stealth Bomber -  "The Threat".

Actually it says "postulated stealth strike aircraft"
"They can't see our arses for dust."
 
- Sir Sydney Camm

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Offline gollevainen

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Re: Western Artists' Concepts of Soviet aircraft during the Cold War
« Reply #114 on: September 09, 2008, 03:25:23 am »
I wonder, is there much Soviet warship misidentification pics or drawings awailable?

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Offline Justo Miranda

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Re: Western Artists' Concepts of Soviet aircraft during the Cold War
« Reply #116 on: September 09, 2008, 08:07:53 am »
From Reichdreams Nº19
Post.1

Offline Justo Miranda

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Re: Western Artists' Concepts of Soviet aircraft during the Cold War
« Reply #117 on: September 09, 2008, 08:09:21 am »
From Reichdreams Nº19
Post.2

Offline Justo Miranda

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Re: Western Artists' Concepts of Soviet aircraft during the Cold War
« Reply #118 on: September 09, 2008, 08:10:33 am »
From Reichdreams Nº19
Post.3

Offline Firefly 2

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Re: Western Artists' Concepts of Soviet aircraft during the Cold War
« Reply #119 on: September 16, 2008, 01:03:41 pm »
My god... What if the Mig 19 was designed by Prof Tank lol.

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Re: Western Artists' Concepts of Soviet aircraft during the Cold War
« Reply #120 on: September 16, 2008, 01:57:42 pm »
Almost two years ago I still haven't found an article about "Soviet future helos" in my magazine collection, but fortunately I found the scan I sent to a friend years ago.

Ladies and Gentlemen, here's the elusive Mil Mi-27 Super Hind!. I love that design :-*

Offline Justo Miranda

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Re: Western Artists' Concepts of Soviet aircraft during the Cold War
« Reply #121 on: September 16, 2008, 03:30:28 pm »
From my files
Post 2

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Re: Western Artists' Concepts of Soviet aircraft during the Cold War
« Reply #122 on: September 16, 2008, 03:33:23 pm »
I have that Italeri Ferret model (plus the SR-75 and LHX) at home ready to be assembled after my retirement ;D

Offline painstaking

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Re: Western Artists' Concepts of Soviet aircraft during the Cold War
« Reply #123 on: September 23, 2008, 12:44:02 pm »
From Reichdreams Nº19
Post.2

how about this ?
(Italian source, 1955)
« Last Edit: September 23, 2008, 01:02:29 pm by flateric »

Offline flateric

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Re: Western Artists' Concepts of Soviet aircraft during the Cold War
« Reply #124 on: October 18, 2008, 02:02:11 pm »
Yak-41 on the desk of Kuznetsov from 1989 edition of Soviet Military Power
"There are many disbelievers in
stealth, more than a few of them truly technically ignorant and proud of it." Sherm Mullin, Skunk Works

Offline Matej

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Re: Western Artists' Concepts of Soviet aircraft during the Cold War
« Reply #125 on: October 27, 2008, 01:18:03 pm »
Almost two years ago I still haven't found an article about "Soviet future helos" in my magazine collection, but fortunately I found the scan I sent to a friend years ago.

Ladies and Gentlemen, here's the elusive Mil Mi-27 Super Hind!. I love that design :-*

Probably the better name will be Apache-Hind :D Nice one :-)

Bizarre aviation expert.

Offline painstaking

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Re: Western Artists' Concepts of Soviet aircraft during the Cold War
« Reply #126 on: November 03, 2008, 08:38:28 am »
From Reichdreams Nº19
Post.2

how about this ?
(Italian source, 1955)

Aerei d'Oltre Cortina "Planes from Outer Curtain"

I enclose herewith the Italian text and my English translation. B)
According to the text the "MiG 19" has been shown in flight at the 1951 Tushino Air Show and entered in service two years later.    ???


Mikoyan-Gurevich MiG -19
“Barile Volante”

Caccia di linee certamente non ortodosse, il Mig-19 tradisce nel suo aspetto la discendenza dal tedesco Ta-183, e somiglia al Pulqui II argentino, che del progetto germanico è un diretto sviluppo. Inteso come successore del MiG-15, il MiG -19 deve aver trovato non poche difficoltà nella messa a punto, dato che gli è stato preferito come standard il MiG-17.
Dopo la clamorosa apparizione avvenuta a Tushino nel 1951, non si sentì più parlare del nuovo aviogetto fino ad un paio di anni più tardi, quando si ebbe qualche notizia circa l'immissione in reparto di un certo numero di esemplari. La velocità del MiG-19 dovrebbe essere dell'ordine dei 1200 Km/h.

Mikoyan-Gurevich MiG -19
"Flying Barrel”

Surely a not orthodox shaped fighter, the MiG-19 betrays in  its appearance the   breed from the German Ta-183, and looks like  the Argentine Pulqui II, a direct development of the German project. Supposed  to be the  successor of Mig-15, the MiG-19 should have found not a few difficulties in  the set-up process, since  the Mig-17 has been chosen instead as standard .
After the clamorous  apparition occurred in Tushino in 1951, anything new has been  heard about the new jetplane, up to a couple of years later, when news came about the introduction in the first line of a certain amount of models. The speed of MiG-19 should be in the range of 1200 Km/h.


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Re: Western Artists' Concepts of Soviet aircraft during the Cold War
« Reply #128 on: November 22, 2008, 10:16:31 pm »
Su-24 firing an AS-9 ASM, Courtesy Google and Life Magazine
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Offline fightingirish

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Re: Western Artists' Concepts of Soviet aircraft during the Cold War
« Reply #129 on: November 23, 2008, 02:14:41 pm »
Quote
Pentagon rendering of the Soviet's new Blackjack bomber carrying nuclear AS-15 cruise missiles
http://images.google.com/hosted/life/f?q=bomber+source:life&imgurl=115ee22bcd691e8e

Quote
Artist's conception of Soviet Su-24 FENCER all-weather ground-attack aircraft entering service in 1974 w. attacking high-value fixed assets, such as air bases, primary mission.
Date taken:   November 07, 1989
http://images.google.com/hosted/life/l?imgurl=c1cc9b571fc6c5f5&q=su+source:life&usg=__B3w5CpyGQmK2twCIiUNnsCrKv9k=&prev=/images%3Fq%3Dsu%2Bsource:life%26hl%3Dde%26sa%3DG
Quote
Artist's conception of Soviet Su-24 FENCER all-weather ground-attack aircraft entering service in 1974 w. attacking high-value fixed assets, such as air bases, primary mission.
Date taken:   November 07, 1989
http://images.google.com/hosted/life/l?q=su+source:life&imgurl=e6498351e5ea28a6
Quote
Artist's conception of Su-25 FROGFOOT Soviet attack (support & trainer) aircraft which became fully operational in 1984.
Date taken:   November 07, 1989
http://images.google.com/hosted/life/l?imgurl=0b900942743625f9&q=su+source:life&usg=__olPNYZSvWlAOfvi03BeYt_wC9ug=&prev=/images%3Fq%3Dsu%2Bsource:life%26hl%3Dde%26sa%3DG
Courtesy Google and Life Magazine
« Last Edit: November 23, 2008, 02:22:40 pm by fightingirish »
Slán,
fightingirish

Slán ist an Irish Gaelic word for Goodbye.  :)

Offline flateric

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Re: Western Artists' Concepts of Soviet aircraft during the Cold War
« Reply #130 on: November 24, 2008, 02:38:23 am »
Our old friend from 1989 - "Postulated (contractor artist's conception) Soviet stealth strike aircraft for use against critical mil. targets such as command ctrs." - Overscan has posted it before, but there's one more rendering



Hi-res http://images.google.com/hosted/life/f?q=stealth+source:life&imgurl=9ddef46ae1672b71



Hi-res http://images.google.com/hosted/life/f?q=stealth+source:life&imgurl=b60d3ff7954bdea7

Courtesy Google/LIFE/Time Inc.
"There are many disbelievers in
stealth, more than a few of them truly technically ignorant and proud of it." Sherm Mullin, Skunk Works

Offline arseniko3

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Re: Western Artists' Concepts of Soviet aircraft during the Cold War
« Reply #131 on: December 07, 2008, 02:09:26 am »
Dear Mr.Antonio,

I wanted to ask if you have more photo -3views from the Mig-29 Concept
to send.     
                       Thank you
                      John Sioutis
e-mail:synthesis32@gmail.com

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Re: Western Artists' Concepts of Soviet aircraft during the Cold War
« Reply #132 on: December 07, 2008, 02:22:16 am »
Quote
I wanted to ask if you have more photo -3views from the Mig-29 Concept
to send.

I'll take a look and I'll email you later.

Regards

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Re: Western Artists' Concepts of Soviet aircraft during the Cold War
« Reply #133 on: December 17, 2008, 01:00:19 am »
Erik Simonsen effort to represent A-90 Eaglet WIG craft

Source: Inernational Combat Arms
"There are many disbelievers in
stealth, more than a few of them truly technically ignorant and proud of it." Sherm Mullin, Skunk Works

Offline flateric

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Re: Western Artists' Concepts of Soviet aircraft during the Cold War
« Reply #134 on: December 21, 2008, 10:45:39 am »
where did you find misidentification? these are actual 'search works' for MiG-29
« Last Edit: December 21, 2008, 10:47:46 am by flateric »
"There are many disbelievers in
stealth, more than a few of them truly technically ignorant and proud of it." Sherm Mullin, Skunk Works

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Re: Western Artists' Concepts of Soviet aircraft during the Cold War
« Reply #135 on: December 21, 2008, 01:43:31 pm »
Quote
where did you find misidentification? these are actual 'search works' for MiG-29

Hey, I think we'd better delete hesham's post to avoid still further confussion! ;D

Offline borovik

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Re: Western Artists' Concepts of Soviet aircraft during the Cold War
« Reply #136 on: January 17, 2009, 11:42:37 am »
MiG-55N
This is the first-April freaky from: Czechoslovak  magazine "Aero PK Revue", № 4-1994
photo-CIA (of course)  ;D
author: John "Ap" Raille
In addition, two years ago Hesham asked: "I just ask, I see a design to MiG called MiG-55, is that a really
project or not? and if it is real, is it a stealth aircraft or not?. ",
Matej was as close to the truth when suggesting the Czech origin of the fake.
http://www.secretprojects.co.uk/forum/index.php/topic,1033.0

Offline Justo Miranda

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Re: Western Artists' Concepts of Soviet aircraft during the Cold War
« Reply #137 on: January 20, 2009, 12:06:31 pm »
MiG 19 "Not" in action
From "Men in action" 9/1955

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Re: Western Artists' Concepts of Soviet aircraft during the Cold War
« Reply #138 on: February 02, 2009, 11:53:13 am »
Very interesting!
As old Aurora kits:

I ran across this drawing in an old Air Trails (circa 1950, IIRC):

gery

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Re: Western Artists' Concepts of Soviet aircraft during the Cold War
« Reply #139 on: February 02, 2009, 12:34:10 pm »
Mig series....

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Re: Western Artists' Concepts of Soviet aircraft during the Cold War
« Reply #140 on: February 02, 2009, 12:57:36 pm »
Very interesting!
As old Aurora kits:

It is amazing the aircraft in the pictures has under its wings rockets that clearly resemble the US 5-in HVAR, don't you think?

Piotr

Offline hesham

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Re: Western Artists' Concepts of Soviet aircraft during the Cold War
« Reply #141 on: February 09, 2009, 10:03:17 am »
Hi,

I spoke about this aircraft before and its drawing was appeared in early
of 1990s.
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/5/58/MIG-2000-Foto.jpg

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Re: Western Artists' Concepts of Soviet aircraft during the Cold War
« Reply #142 on: February 09, 2009, 11:39:00 am »
Very cool. Too bad this was not further developed into a lighter weight fighter to replace the MiG-29.

-----JT-----

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Re: Western Artists' Concepts of Soviet aircraft during the Cold War
« Reply #143 on: February 09, 2009, 07:49:17 pm »
Quote
Very cool. Too bad this was not further developed into a lighter weight fighter to replace the MiG-29.

I don't think General Dynamics was interested in designing a MiG-29 replacement for the USSR.  ;)

Also, for reference, I believe the magazine article I took that info from was published around approximately the 1986/1988 time frame.
« Last Edit: February 09, 2009, 07:52:01 pm by Sundog »

Offline paralay

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Re: Western Artists' Concepts of Soviet aircraft during the Cold War
« Reply #144 on: February 09, 2009, 09:44:44 pm »
 :)

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Re: Western Artists' Concepts of Soviet aircraft during the Cold War
« Reply #145 on: February 10, 2009, 05:10:59 pm »
That looks very familiar. I think I saw something very much like that in an AW&ST video about modern (this was mid-1980s) fighters, and this was a conjecture by a GD person on what the MFI might look like. I think his name was Bob Ward. Apologies if too many grey brain cells have led me astray on this.

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Re: Western Artists' Concepts of Soviet aircraft during the Cold War
« Reply #146 on: February 10, 2009, 08:59:34 pm »
Grumman projected a future Soviet VG fighter called "Fearless" as part of the F-14 program. Air International got confused and reported it as a real aircraft ;)
"They can't see our arses for dust."
 
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Re: Western Artists' Concepts of Soviet aircraft during the Cold War
« Reply #147 on: February 11, 2009, 05:36:37 am »

     AW & ST also reported the Fearless in the early '70s. Does anyone know of any drawings of the Fearless? All I've seen is the description, which was a twin engined swing wing a/c possibly developed IIRC, from the MiG-23. Maybe even twin fins, it's been a while since I've seen one of the descriptions. Maybe it even looked like the F-14!


Grumman projected a future Soviet VG fighter called "Fearless" as part of the F-14 program. Air International got confused and reported it as a real aircraft ;)

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Re: Western Artists' Concepts of Soviet aircraft during the Cold War
« Reply #148 on: February 11, 2009, 08:11:54 am »
:)

Bigger is better, especially in color
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stealth, more than a few of them truly technically ignorant and proud of it." Sherm Mullin, Skunk Works

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Re: Western Artists' Concepts of Soviet aircraft during the Cold War
« Reply #149 on: February 11, 2009, 09:29:45 am »
I thought "Fearless" was the code name given the delta wing VTOL MiG-23.

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Re: Western Artists' Concepts of Soviet aircraft during the Cold War
« Reply #150 on: February 11, 2009, 09:49:19 am »
No, that was Faithless.
"They can't see our arses for dust."
 
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Re: Western Artists' Concepts of Soviet aircraft during the Cold War
« Reply #151 on: February 14, 2009, 03:09:52 pm »
Hi all - I ran across a couple of designs in an old "Air Trails" magazine from 1951. They're Soviet aircraft listed as an "unknown interceptor" and a "research jet". Can anyone here identify them a bit further?
Thanks in advance for your help.
Here are the drawings:
« Last Edit: January 10, 2013, 07:01:39 am by Stargazer2006 »

Offline flateric

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Re: Western Artists' Concepts of Soviet aircraft during the Cold War
« Reply #152 on: February 14, 2009, 03:33:59 pm »
they are whiskey trails from Air Trails editor head
"There are many disbelievers in
stealth, more than a few of them truly technically ignorant and proud of it." Sherm Mullin, Skunk Works

Offline Justo Miranda

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Re: Western Artists' Concepts of Soviet aircraft during the Cold War
« Reply #153 on: February 14, 2009, 05:03:13 pm »
German projects ?
Here Focke Wulf P.II comparative...

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Re: Western Artists' Concepts of Soviet aircraft during the Cold War
« Reply #154 on: March 03, 2009, 12:59:52 am »
I'm getting some serious Ta-183 vibes from that drawing. The fictional "MiG-19" was a Ta-183 that someone slapped a nose radome on.

Kubinka - please mow your lawns.

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Re: Western Artists' Concepts of Soviet aircraft during the Cold War
« Reply #155 on: March 03, 2009, 03:46:16 am »
I have a couple of drawings from period magazine, mostly Air Trails and Air Progress from the period of 1949 to 1952 that show the thinking at the time. Maybe Aurora got some of their ideas here.
The last drawing was done by Doug Rolfe, a noted aviation artist of the time. Notice how it looks somewhat similar to the Aurora artwork.

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Re: Western Artists' Concepts of Soviet aircraft during the Cold War
« Reply #157 on: January 10, 2010, 09:03:21 am »
Also from "Avión" but from March 1956 issue.

This is an hypotetical nuclear powered bomber

Also the same project for my dear Pometablava,


http://www.darkroastedblend.com/2008/09/monstrous-aviation-worlds-biggest.html

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Re: Western Artists' Concepts of Soviet aircraft during the Cold War
« Reply #158 on: March 18, 2010, 07:11:37 am »

    I just remembered a sideview I saw in a Jane's Defence Weekly back in the late '80s. It looked similar to the Ye-8 with a touch of Ye-33(?) (the 'single engined MiG-29'). This was before that a/c had been revealed. I think it was rumored to become the MiG-35 & was to counter the F-16 & ISTR it may have been refered to as Ye-32. It looked more like the Ye-8 I think. There was nothing else seen or heard as I recall & when the Ye-33 was revealed, I took it to be the Ye-32 JDW wrote of. Does anyone here recall the article?

Offline Deino

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Re: Western Artists' Concepts of Soviet aircraft during the Cold War
« Reply #159 on: April 15, 2010, 03:27:04 pm »
More from the "Weapons Encyclopedia". This time Chinese Fighters, the J-8 and the J-12. Both from Shenyang
"The J-8 Finback would be a Mach 2 fighter (2 Tumansky R-11 copies) developed from one MiG-23 received from Egypt. First operational units would be ready from 1980".
"The J-12 would be a Mach 2 fighter engined with one Spey with afterburner". The Chinese Spey program started in 1979.


Sorry to re-open that tread with this off-topic question, but do You have the complete title / year + ISPN of that book/article ??

Thanks in advance, Deino
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Offline Pioneer

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Re: Western Artists' Concepts of Soviet aircraft during the Cold War
« Reply #161 on: July 24, 2010, 06:48:01 am »
Not so much a misidentification of a Soviet aircraft as such. Perhaps more a misidentification of its true intention!
Its the Antonov An-72 Coaler

It has been suggested that the An-72 may be a flying scale model of a larger military freighter (transport), intended to prove the upper-surface blowing concept,..............
(From: Bill Gunston`s The Encyclopedia of World Air Power, 1981)

Regards
Pioneer
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Mans nobility, made transcendent in the fiery crucible of war.
Faithfulness and fortitude.
Gentleness and compassion.
I am honored to be your brother.”

— Lt Col Ralph Honner DSO M

Offline hesham

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Re: Western Artists' Concepts of Soviet aircraft during the Cold War
« Reply #162 on: August 11, 2010, 05:25:35 am »
Hi,

from Arabic magazine of 1988.

Offline Hammer Birchgrove

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Re: Western Artists' Concepts of Soviet aircraft during the Cold War
« Reply #163 on: August 11, 2010, 06:41:42 pm »
So Craig Thomas (writer of "Firefox") was just trying to help NATO to develop new fighters?  :P
To the heroism of the Resistance Fighters -- past, present and future -- this post is respectfully dedicated.

Offline Triton

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Re: Western Artists' Concepts of Soviet aircraft during the Cold War
« Reply #164 on: August 11, 2010, 06:54:17 pm »
Did the Soviet Union also engage in this speculative forecasting or was their sufficient speculative forecasting information in Western aviation journals that this was unnecessary?
« Last Edit: August 11, 2010, 07:11:11 pm by Triton »

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Re: Western Artists' Concepts of Soviet aircraft during the Cold War
« Reply #165 on: August 12, 2010, 10:03:59 am »
Quote
Grumman projected a future Soviet VG fighter called "Fearless" as part of the F-14 program. Air International got confused and reported it as a real aircraft

This from 'Soviet Aircraft of Today', Nico Sgarlato, Arms and Armour Press, 1978, page 11 :-

" Fearless        Advanced Soviet Fighter variable geometry twin jet hypothesised by
                     the USAF to be inserted in the software of the flight simulators"


cheers,
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Offline JC Carbonel

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Re: Western Artists' Concepts of Soviet aircraft during the Cold War
« Reply #166 on: September 05, 2010, 02:37:53 am »


from "Parade d'avions" by Helsingborgs Litografiska, undated (robably mid-fifties as the cover features the proto B707

the interesting ones are the Rhomboidal wing aircraft and the Arado NJ derivative delta ...

JCC
« Last Edit: January 10, 2013, 06:40:16 am by Stargazer2006 »

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Re: Western Artists' Concepts of Soviet aircraft during the Cold War
« Reply #167 on: September 05, 2010, 07:15:41 am »
« Last Edit: September 05, 2010, 07:22:09 am by flateric »
It takes a long time, before all mistakes are made ...

Offline JC Carbonel

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Re: Western Artists' Concepts of Soviet aircraft during the Cold War
« Reply #168 on: September 05, 2010, 11:38:00 am »
Yes Jemiba, this look like it ... so complete creation...

what about the Delta which looks like an Arado Night Fighter project (Ar NJ I if I remember well) ?

JCC



Offline JC Carbonel

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Re: Western Artists' Concepts of Soviet aircraft during the Cold War
« Reply #170 on: September 05, 2010, 11:56:34 am »
Thank you

looks better in drawing than in real life

JCC


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Re: Western Artists' Concepts of Soviet aircraft during the Cold War
« Reply #172 on: November 22, 2010, 03:26:54 pm »
By the way,

this fighter may be called MiG-41 or Aircraft 41 at the 1980s.

Offline OM

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Re: Western Artists' Concepts of Soviet aircraft during the Cold War
« Reply #173 on: February 01, 2011, 01:28:55 am »
...One could have fun scratchbuilding these, although ISTR the one on the bottom left having been either an Estes or Centuri flying kit in the mid-60's.



...The entire article is online: http://books.google.com/books?id=diEDAAAAMBAJ&lpg=RA1-PA40&dq=soviet%2C%20OR%20russia%20intitle%3APopular%20intitle%3AScience&pg=RA1-PA40#v=onepage&q=soviet%2C%20OR%20russia%20intitle%3APopular%20intitle%3AScience&f=false

Offline Skyblazer

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Re: Western Artists' Concepts of Soviet aircraft during the Cold War
« Reply #174 on: February 01, 2011, 01:55:47 am »
Don't know about the third project, but the other two DID exist, though not in the Soviet Union. First one looks Supermarine to me, while the second one was definitely a German project, most likely Lippisch-related.

Offline OM

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Re: Western Artists' Concepts of Soviet aircraft during the Cold War
« Reply #175 on: February 01, 2011, 02:41:58 am »
Don't know about the third project, but the other two DID exist, though not in the Soviet Union. First one looks Supermarine to me, while the second one was definitely a German project, most likely Lippisch-related.

...Pretty much what I was thinking. That particular "engines-on-tail" design just says to me that without some serious reinforcing - read: reinforcing circa 1951 = too much extra weight - they'd rip off the nacelles the first time they powered up.

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Re: Western Artists' Concepts of Soviet aircraft during the Cold War
« Reply #176 on: February 01, 2011, 02:44:46 am »
The delta project was a Lippisch design. The last one was the Ta-283.

Offline borovik

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Re: Western Artists' Concepts of Soviet aircraft during the Cold War
« Reply #177 on: February 01, 2011, 03:40:51 am »
It's definitely all three German project (He P.1080; Li P.13a; Ta 283) and none of them were not going to build in the Soviet Union.
Relatively P.13a Alexander Lippish -
"On the Russian drawing boards" - there were similar projects with a delta wing, but a little earlier it: "SAM-4, Sigma" A.Moskalev 's (1933) and K-15 K.Kalinin' s (1937) / on the forum about them already written) ) /


Offline Eagle2009

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Re: Western Artists' Concepts of Soviet aircraft during the Cold War
« Reply #179 on: April 06, 2011, 10:58:01 pm »
Have you guys ever heard of early reports on the MiG-29 (say mid-80's) claiming it supposedly could carry the AA-9/R-33 long range missile? Of course we know now that its radar was incapable of properly using such a weapon but the only place I have ever seen this claim is a book I have had for some years now. The information in the book is old enough that the authors believed the MiG-29 had a APG-65 class radar and the AA-10 Alamo was a "Fire and Forget" missile along with other late Cold War beliefs of Soviet Airpower.

"Russia's Top Guns: Soviet Air Power", Gallery Books Aerospace Publishing 1990

The book actually shows a small picture claiming to have been taken by a Swedish aircraft over the Baltic that does show two large white missile-shaped objects (one under each wing). I assume they were likely drop tanks of some sort but I am still a bit curious..

Thoughts?

Offline SOC

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Re: Western Artists' Concepts of Soviet aircraft during the Cold War
« Reply #180 on: April 12, 2011, 10:43:42 pm »
I've got that book  ;D

I know that image well.  I believe the MiG-29 was maneuvering and the R-27R's nose section sticking out, with the front canards, made the missile look a lot bigger so they figured it was an R-33.

Offline fightingirish

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Re: Western Artists' Concepts of Soviet aircraft during the Cold War
« Reply #181 on: April 13, 2011, 02:45:31 am »
That book also claimed, that the long-interception Mig would have had also a CFT between the two engine nacelles.
If I remember correct, that would not work with out major redesign of fuselage, because the drop tank blocked the cannon casing ejection port.

Picture source:
"Russia's Top Guns: Soviet Air Power", Gallery Books Aerospace Publishing 1990
Slán,
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Offline Eagle2009

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Re: Western Artists' Concepts of Soviet aircraft during the Cold War
« Reply #182 on: April 14, 2011, 10:47:39 pm »
Many thanks for the help gents!

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Re: Western Artists' Concepts of Soviet aircraft during the Cold War
« Reply #183 on: April 15, 2011, 10:24:59 am »
Regarding the MiG-29 CFT - perhaps this was just a mis-identification of the actual centreline tank, which does look a bit strange, since it has a hole for the APU exhaust...

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Re: Western Artists' Concepts of Soviet aircraft during the Cold War
« Reply #184 on: October 07, 2011, 09:24:03 am »

        I was looking thru some old Flight Globals online, for 1983, IIRC when I saw this, which I meant to copy & paste but forgot to, so it's from memory "RAM ?", yes, RAM- question mark, listed just ahead of RAM-P, & described as a 4 turbo fan design possibly intended to replace the Tu-95 as a cruise missile carrier, that's more or less a quote. I wonder what that  was, maybe a mis-interpretation of the Tu-142? An Il-76 seen at the wrong place at the wrong time, or maybe even the An-124? I don't recall ever seeing an artist concept of anything like that.

Offline Avimimus

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Re: Western Artists' Concepts of Soviet aircraft during the Cold War
« Reply #185 on: October 08, 2011, 08:23:25 am »
...and the AA-10 Alamo was a "Fire and Forget" missile along with other late Cold War beliefs of Soviet Airpower.

Well... R-27T was certainly fire-and-forget and R-27AE was to have active terminal homing like the AMRAAM (and then there is the passive homing head if you want to get really "out there")... The T would have actually been in service as well...

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Re: Western Artists' Concepts of Soviet aircraft during the Cold War
« Reply #187 on: July 27, 2012, 09:09:03 pm »
Awesome!! Another from the same blog above:

All F-35 threads will be locked, and supporters publicly outed or banned.

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Re: Western Artists' Concepts of Soviet aircraft during the Cold War
« Reply #188 on: September 08, 2012, 07:44:45 am »
 A nuclear powered aircraft;


http://xplanes.tumblr.com/

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Re: Western Artists' Concepts of Soviet aircraft during the Cold War
« Reply #189 on: September 08, 2012, 08:02:19 am »
Excellent hesham!, that's very interesting to me.

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Re: Western Artists' Concepts of Soviet aircraft during the Cold War
« Reply #190 on: September 09, 2012, 03:23:25 am »
I know this is very late but I'm rather interested in the Romboidal wing fighter posted about by Matej (August 25 2006) , pometablava  (October 01, 2006) & boxkite (October 14, 2006).

Were there any speculations about armament, engines, weight etc? (For example in one of the pictures posted by Matej there appear to be eight missle/bomb rails fitted under the wings (four a side))

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Re: Western Artists' Concepts of Soviet aircraft during the Cold War
« Reply #191 on: September 10, 2012, 05:21:46 am »
I know this is very late but I'm rather interested in the Romboidal wing fighter...
[size=78%]A verbatim quote from the "Nevsky Bastion" Issue № 3 dated 1997. 02.[/size]
in article "Mysteries of History Military Equipment" by G. Petrov (p.55)
Quote
"... So far, none of the local KB is not claimed to have conducted in the years of work on the jet fighter with a diamond/romboidal wing. However, be said that the pictures - the falsification impossible, as in the years 1950-1952 in TsAGI were working to determine aerodynamic performance fighter with a diamond/romboidal wing (wing RK-1, RK-1M, RK-2) "
  Next G.F. Petrov proposal his reconstruction of the fighter.
« Last Edit: September 10, 2012, 05:25:18 am by borovik »

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Re: Western Artists' Concepts of Soviet aircraft during the Cold War
« Reply #192 on: November 26, 2012, 05:58:59 am »
Seems to meet the "Aereview" (October 1990, page 105) three small photos of a tailless jet "aircraft" with a rhomboidal wing. The Japanese caption mentions that the "aircraft" was tested by MiG in June 1954. On the last photo, the right elevon is seen starting to separate from the wing.
(http://www.secretprojects.co.uk/forum/index.php/topic,3028.msg24414.html#msg24414)

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Re: Western Artists' Concepts of Soviet aircraft during the Cold War
« Reply #193 on: December 03, 2012, 04:10:22 am »
Doug Richardson’s Mikoyan MiG-37 based on the MiG-2000

Source:
Hushkit-Blog - The Mikoyan MiG-37: A brief history of Russian stealth (in fact and fiction)
Slán,
fightingirish

Slán ist an Irish Gaelic word for Goodbye.  :)

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Re: Western Artists' Concepts of Soviet aircraft during the Cold War
« Reply #194 on: December 25, 2012, 08:19:01 am »
Hi,


anther misidentification,the Soviet answer to X-15.

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Re: Western Artists' Concepts of Soviet aircraft during the Cold War
« Reply #195 on: January 10, 2013, 07:02:44 am »
Topics merged.

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Re: Western Artists' Concepts of Soviet aircraft during the Cold War
« Reply #197 on: January 10, 2013, 07:53:59 am »
The better, we can merge with this topic;
http://www.secretprojects.co.uk/forum/index.php/topic,275.msg171272.html#msg171272

Done, hesham, thanks! I knew there was another one somewhere but hadn't yet found it...

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Re: Western Artists' Concepts of Soviet aircraft during the Cold War
« Reply #198 on: January 11, 2013, 01:50:06 am »
More merging going on...  ::)

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Re: Western Artists' Concepts of Soviet aircraft during the Cold War
« Reply #199 on: January 11, 2013, 05:03:19 am »
... and more merging still...   :P

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Re: Western Artists' Concepts of Soviet aircraft during the Cold War
« Reply #200 on: January 15, 2013, 07:01:28 am »
Thanks to forum member Bruno Anthony, I found a hard copy of Mar 26, 1979 issue of AWST with artist concepts of the RAM-J, -K and -L (Su-25, Su-27 and MiG-29 respectively). They are the same designs as shown in Bill Gunston's color profiles seen in this thread. My scans are way too big to post and I don't know how to re-size them, so if anyone wants to see them I'll be glad to email them or if someone here wants to re-size them and post them, that's fine. All are shown in flight and in black and white but the Ram-K in particular, it shows the swing wing to advantage.

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Re: Western Artists' Concepts of Soviet aircraft during the Cold War
« Reply #201 on: January 15, 2013, 07:50:10 am »
Here they are in small ! THANKx "famvburg"

Deino
He was my North, my South, my East and West,
My working week and my Sunday rest,
My noon, my midnight, my talk, my song;
I thought that love would last forever; I was wrong.
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For nothing now can ever come to any good.
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Re: Western Artists' Concepts of Soviet aircraft during the Cold War
« Reply #202 on: January 15, 2013, 09:06:54 am »
Thanks Deino! Source is AWST, March 26, 1979. Thanks also to Bruno Anthony for providing me the issue date so I could locate the hard copy.

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Re: Western Artists' Concepts of Soviet aircraft during the Cold War
« Reply #203 on: April 08, 2013, 01:25:46 am »
Here's a would-be Soviet nuclear bomber from a 1958 German magazine:

Offline Vahe Demirjian

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Re: Western Artists' Concepts of Soviet aircraft during the Cold War
« Reply #204 on: May 18, 2013, 07:34:43 pm »
"Soviet nuclear bomber" from Aviation Week, 1st December 1958. In fact Myasischev M-50.

Given that the Aviation Week report was incorrect in asserting that the M-50 was nuclear-powered and the M-50 flew nearly a year after the Aviation Week report was published, is it possible that a U-2 pilot saw the M-50 on the ground during an overflight of the Soviet Union and mistakenly thought that it might be a Russian counterpart to the WS-125 based on the similarity of the M-50 to an early design for the WS-125? 

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Re: Western Artists' Concepts of Soviet aircraft during the Cold War
« Reply #205 on: May 18, 2013, 10:51:41 pm »
May be you should start with comparing timelines of U-2 overflight over Moscow area and M-50 assembly and delivery to Ramenskoye? You will find answer 'no match' quite fast.
"There are many disbelievers in
stealth, more than a few of them truly technically ignorant and proud of it." Sherm Mullin, Skunk Works

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Re: Western Artists' Concepts of Soviet aircraft during the Cold War
« Reply #206 on: June 17, 2013, 12:03:09 pm »
Hi,


the Yak-26 aircraft.

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Re: Western Artists' Concepts of Soviet aircraft during the Cold War
« Reply #207 on: June 17, 2013, 09:57:23 pm »
Well, apart from the wrong designation and the landing gear, which is too much "U 2 style" (probably just implying,
that it was a hastily made Soviet copy ...  ::)  ), the drawing actually isn't that bad, especially taking into account
the part of the description saying "... Beobachtet worden ist "Mandrake" auch mit einer kürzeren, stumpferen Nase"
(Mandrake was observed, too, with a shorter, blunter nose).
Reminds me of the good old times, when we were browsing through mags and newspapers for blurry photos of
Soviet aircraft and trying to sketch them ... with paper and pencil, of course. Steam-powered really !  ;D
It takes a long time, before all mistakes are made ...

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Re: Western Artists' Concepts of Soviet aircraft during the Cold War
« Reply #208 on: June 18, 2013, 01:12:14 am »
probably just implying, that it was a hastily made Soviet copy ...  ::)

As if the Soviets weren't capable of pulling such tricks...  ::) Just ask Beriev!!!  ;D
http://www.secretprojects.co.uk/forum/index.php/topic,17946.0

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Re: Western Artists' Concepts of Soviet aircraft during the Cold War
« Reply #209 on: June 18, 2013, 04:14:35 am »
As if the Soviets weren't capable of pulling such tricks...  ::) Just ask Beriev!!!  ;D
Well, compared to the S-13 the Mandrake actually was an original !
The lineage of the Mandrake actually seems to have been ascribed to the Yak-26. That
explains the much longer distance between the main gear legs.
 
 
It takes a long time, before all mistakes are made ...

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Re: Western Artists' Concepts of Soviet aircraft during the Cold War
« Reply #210 on: June 19, 2013, 04:34:42 am »
Well, apart from the wrong designation and the landing gear, which is too much "U 2 style" (probably just implying,
that it was a hastily made Soviet copy ...  ::)  ), the drawing actually isn't that bad, especially taking into account
the part of the description saying "... Beobachtet worden ist "Mandrake" auch mit einer kürzeren, stumpferen Nase"
(Mandrake was observed, too, with a shorter, blunter nose).
Reminds me of the good old times, when we were browsing through mags and newspapers for blurry photos of
Soviet aircraft and trying to sketch them ... with paper and pencil, of course. Steam-powered really !  ;D


 ;D ;D ,Yes my dear Jemiba,


and in my old files,I have from an Arabic magazines,they had a group of misidentified Soviet
aircraft,but unfortunately I didn't keep them.

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Re: Western Artists' Concepts of Soviet aircraft during the Cold War
« Reply #211 on: June 23, 2013, 05:32:44 am »
...
"There are many disbelievers in
stealth, more than a few of them truly technically ignorant and proud of it." Sherm Mullin, Skunk Works

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Re: Western Artists' Concepts of Soviet aircraft during the Cold War
« Reply #212 on: June 25, 2013, 09:10:42 am »
Hi,


from a Germany book,the Sukhoi Su-9 Fishpot early imagination to it.

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Re: Western Artists' Concepts of Soviet aircraft during the Cold War
« Reply #213 on: June 26, 2013, 05:56:41 am »
Not too far off the mark though given the Sukhoi T-3 flew at Moscow-Tushino on 24th June 1956. It looks almost exactly like the T-3 down to radio antenna behind the canopy, the twin flutter booms on the wing stabilisers and the extra pitots on the wings. Not a bad guess at the time.

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Re: Western Artists' Concepts of Soviet aircraft during the Cold War
« Reply #214 on: June 26, 2013, 06:14:20 am »
Yes my dear Hood,


they tried to develop the T-3 in their imagination.

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Re: Western Artists' Concepts of Soviet aircraft during the Cold War
« Reply #215 on: July 22, 2013, 06:59:10 am »
Hi all,
just as a matter of curiosity (little historical interest, of course) an extract from INTERAVIA n.3 year 1952.
The title is:
Le bombardier "universel" de Staline
The section tells about a then little known project of Tupolev and starts with a declaration of US Gen. Hoyt S. Vandenberg of 17/02/1951, who said "...USSR is working on a bomber with performance similar to those of Consolidated Vultee B-36..."
Speculations about the airplane's layout were "...surely a large bomber with swept wing, swept high mounted stabilizers, six turboprops with contra-rotating propellers..."
According to the author, designation must have been "Tu-75" or "TuG-75, because also Gurevich is involved on the project" but probably "the father of this aircraft is Dr. Ing. Baade, who worked at Junkers Flugzeug und Motorenwerke".
"...the tubular fuselage is 51 mt long and the wing has flexible structure with a span of 68 mt, as the landing gear is bicycle type retracting in the fuselage".
"...engines are 6 BMW028-derived turboprops developing 7000 HP each and 30 RATO bottles for takeoff only..."
"...speed could reach 880+ km/h, range and payload is in the same class of B-36 and a crew of 22 men (!) is needed to ensure a good service during long flights..."
"...another prototype by Tupolev has made its first flight in September 1950, with 6 couples of DB-626 engines, developing 4000 HP each".
 

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Re: Western Artists' Concepts of Soviet aircraft during the Cold War
« Reply #216 on: July 22, 2013, 09:10:34 am »
From Italian book "Aviazione Oggi - Storia" - F.lli Fabbri Editori - 1976

"Profilo del Backfire, denominazione NATO data al nuovo bombardiere Tupolev, del quale non è ancora apparsa in Occidente alcuna fotografia ("AEREI" n.10/1975 - disegno di Gianni Riccardi)"

"Profile of the Backfire, the designation given by NATO to the new Tupolev bomber, of which has not yet appeared in the West any photographs ("AEREI" n.10/1975 - drawing by Gianni Riccardi)"

Offline hesham

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Re: Western Artists' Concepts of Soviet aircraft during the Cold War
« Reply #217 on: July 22, 2013, 09:39:28 am »
Great find Visvirtusvoluntas

Offline visvirtusvoluntas

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Re: Western Artists' Concepts of Soviet aircraft during the Cold War
« Reply #218 on: July 23, 2013, 07:22:55 am »
Thank you Hesham.
This is described as Tupolev Tu-10, powered by 2 Chelomej Nene (sic) turbojets, max speed around 900 km/h - Unknown source, 1952.

As we know, no aircraft was produced with Tu-10 designation in that period and the nearest one in external shape was the Tu-14. But I suppose that this image was created after the aquisition of first low quality photos of Il-28 (see swept tail surfaces). The wrong attribution to Tupolev was a venial sin, I think.

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Re: Western Artists' Concepts of Soviet aircraft during the Cold War
« Reply #219 on: July 23, 2013, 12:51:19 pm »
Many thanks vis, very interesting contributions!

Antonio

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Re: Western Artists' Concepts of Soviet aircraft during the Cold War
« Reply #220 on: July 24, 2013, 09:59:55 am »
Gratias ago tibi magno cum gaudio.  ;)

I recently found my old magazine's collection. Hope to find something else.

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Re: Western Artists' Concepts of Soviet aircraft during the Cold War
« Reply #222 on: July 30, 2013, 06:07:51 am »
Beautiful selection. I especially love the first one!

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Re: Western Artists' Concepts of Soviet aircraft during the Cold War
« Reply #223 on: July 30, 2013, 06:31:34 am »
Thank you Stargazer.

Offline visvirtusvoluntas

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Re: Western Artists' Concepts of Soviet aircraft during the Cold War
« Reply #224 on: August 01, 2013, 08:16:02 am »
I've got 7 original numbers of "ALI" from 1952 to 1953. Amazing!

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Re: Western Artists' Concepts of Soviet aircraft during the Cold War
« Reply #225 on: August 04, 2013, 10:43:27 am »
The first one makes me think of what a very early iteration of the fictional Firefox could look like. Thanks.

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Re: Western Artists' Concepts of Soviet aircraft during the Cold War
« Reply #226 on: August 04, 2013, 12:42:36 pm »
The first one makes me think of what a very early iteration of the fictional Firefox could look like. Thanks.

Great minds! I thought exactly the same on seeing it.  ;)

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Re: Western Artists' Concepts of Soviet aircraft during the Cold War
« Reply #227 on: August 11, 2013, 10:17:55 am »
Hi,


from Air Pictorial March 1958.

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Re: Western Artists' Concepts of Soviet aircraft during the Cold War
« Reply #228 on: August 28, 2013, 07:06:45 am »

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Re: Western Artists' Concepts of Soviet aircraft during the Cold War
« Reply #229 on: October 10, 2013, 12:38:06 am »

     AW & ST also reported the Fearless in the early '70s. Does anyone know of any drawings of the Fearless? All I've seen is the description, which was a twin engined swing wing a/c possibly developed IIRC, from the MiG-23. Maybe even twin fins, it's been a while since I've seen one of the descriptions. Maybe it even looked like the F-14!


Grumman projected a future Soviet VG fighter called "Fearless" as part of the F-14 program. Air International got confused and reported it as a real aircraft ;)

From the SDASM youtube channel: "NO POINTS FOR SECOND PLACE" an early 70s Grumman/Navy joint film production lobbying for the F-14.
 
 At 15:06 Captain Scott Lamoreaux (VFX program manager) goes over the threat baseline: MiG-21s,-23s, and with special emphasis on the -25.  He goes on,"...a much newer problem faces even our most contemporary solution to containing the broad spectrum of Soviet air threats.  And that's a generation of advanced tactical aircraft which further expands the performance of known Soviet fighters and missiles."
 
The model shown at 16:33, and in the background at 15:22, has the name FEARLESS printed on the base.  Looks like the love child of a MiG-25 and the Rockwell FX.  After this deadly serious discussion we are treated to a 5 minute cartoon of the Tomcat mascot fighting anthropomorphized Soviet Bears.
 

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Re: Western Artists' Concepts of Soviet aircraft during the Cold War
« Reply #230 on: October 10, 2013, 02:13:51 am »
Great spotting, thanks.
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Re: Western Artists' Concepts of Soviet aircraft during the Cold War
« Reply #231 on: December 14, 2013, 12:04:15 pm »
Wow! Thanks for the video and catching that. I missed the new posts earlier and just found them. Funny about this Fearless model, it is fixed wing, and IIRC, I have always seen it described as swing wing. Anyway, studying the pics so I can make a model of it, it isn't a love child of the MiG-25 and Rockwell FX, to me it looks very much like a North American Vigilante with a single cockpit moved aft to even with the intakes and  MiG-21 vertical and horizontal tail surfaces. Back in 1981, after reading the novel "Firefox", before the movie, I made my own version of Firefox from an RA-5C, it looked enough like a MiG, IMHO, that when painted silver and USSR stars and Sparrows under the wings, that is the first thing I thought of when I saw these pics, "It is my 1981 Firefox!". Anyway, to model this in 1/72, quickly thinking, I would use a modiefied 1/72 RA-5C and 1/48 MiG-21 tail surfaces as a starting point. Compare pics of it with pics of a Vigi.

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Re: Western Artists' Concepts of Soviet aircraft during the Cold War
« Reply #232 on: March 22, 2014, 05:22:54 am »
Hi,


and from L+K magazine 25/1971,here is the Tupolev Tu-22M Backfire,please
note the different from the aircraft actually built,such the the tail fin and the
narrow fuselage.

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Re: Western Artists' Concepts of Soviet aircraft during the Cold War
« Reply #233 on: May 05, 2014, 05:54:47 am »
Hi,


very close to actually built,the Sukhoi Su-24 three-view.

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Re: Western Artists' Concepts of Soviet aircraft during the Cold War
« Reply #234 on: May 05, 2014, 06:43:08 am »
Good example of a reconstruction using a top view only (the mentioned photos may have
been taken by a satellite) !
It takes a long time, before all mistakes are made ...

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Re: Western Artists' Concepts of Soviet aircraft during the Cold War
« Reply #235 on: May 05, 2014, 07:00:07 am »
My dear Jemiba,


it was mentioned in Air International 6/1980,and may be from a normal photo,from
far away.

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Re: Western Artists' Concepts of Soviet aircraft during the Cold War
« Reply #236 on: May 09, 2014, 07:47:28 am »
Hi,


here is the Antonov An-400 3-view.

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Re: Western Artists' Concepts of Soviet aircraft during the Cold War
« Reply #237 on: May 14, 2014, 05:10:21 am »
Hi,


here is a very closely drawing to actually built Sukhoi Su-27 Flanker.

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Re: Western Artists' Concepts of Soviet aircraft during the Cold War
« Reply #238 on: May 15, 2014, 05:33:04 am »
From Air International 7/1986,


here is the early imagination to Mil Mi-28 and Kamov Ka-50 3-views.

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Re: Western Artists' Concepts of Soviet aircraft during the Cold War
« Reply #239 on: May 15, 2014, 06:23:10 am »
here is the Antonov An-400 3-view.

"An-400" was simply the designation quoted for what was actually the An-124.

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Re: Western Artists' Concepts of Soviet aircraft during the Cold War
« Reply #240 on: July 23, 2014, 07:40:53 am »
MiG-15, -17 and -19 from a current eBay auction. The two single engine jets look like the two common early misconceptions but the twin looks like one of the Yak twins or maybe an Alexiev(?) design IMHO.

http://www.ebay.com/itm/400685460452?_trksid=p2055119.m1438.l2649&ssPageName=STRK%3AMEBIDX%3AIT

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Re: Western Artists' Concepts of Soviet aircraft during the Cold War
« Reply #241 on: July 23, 2014, 04:40:10 pm »
MiG-15, -17 and -19 from a current eBay auction. The two single engine jets look like the two common early misconceptions but the twin looks like one of the Yak twins or maybe an Alexiev(?) design IMHO.

http://www.ebay.com/itm/400685460452?_trksid=p2055119.m1438.l2649&ssPageName=STRK%3AMEBIDX%3AIT


Great find Famvburg,and we can put them here;
« Last Edit: July 24, 2014, 01:52:24 am by PaulMM (Overscan) »

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Re: Western Artists' Concepts of Soviet aircraft during the Cold War
« Reply #242 on: July 24, 2014, 01:56:45 am »
If we read the back of the photo, the top is supposed to be the twin engined MiG-17 successor to the MiG-15, the middle is an all-weather twin jet fighter, and the bottom is the MiG-19 "Flying Barrel".


Its dated 16 Feb 1953.


Strangely, the top design is quite similar to the I-320 prototype of 1949. Bottom seems to be a Ta-183. Middle is kind of a Yak-25, but 2 years before it was shown to the West.
« Last Edit: July 24, 2014, 02:13:07 am by PaulMM (Overscan) »
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Offline famvburg

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Re: Western Artists' Concepts of Soviet aircraft during the Cold War
« Reply #243 on: July 24, 2014, 09:42:07 am »
Thanks!

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Re: Western Artists' Concepts of Soviet aircraft during the Cold War
« Reply #244 on: July 24, 2014, 10:28:08 am »
from Aerei d'Oltre Cortina, Roma, 1955
« Last Edit: July 24, 2014, 10:57:06 am by PaulMM (Overscan) »

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Re: Western Artists' Concepts of Soviet aircraft during the Cold War
« Reply #245 on: July 24, 2014, 04:16:31 pm »
Nice find Painstaken.

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Re: Western Artists' Concepts of Soviet aircraft during the Cold War
« Reply #246 on: July 26, 2014, 01:42:38 am »
That's an excellent link to the Ta-183 based fighter shown in the e-bay item on the previous page from 1953.
It shows this misinformation stuck around for at least two years with the same MiG-19 designation. Odd to see the Ta-183 as the MiG-19, when for years it was said the Ta-183 was "copied" to produce the MiG-15!

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Re: Western Artists' Concepts of Soviet aircraft during the Cold War
« Reply #247 on: September 01, 2014, 09:10:54 am »
MiG-15, -17 and -19 from a current eBay auction. The two single engine jets look like the two common early misconceptions but the twin looks like one of the Yak twins or maybe an Alexiev(?) design IMHO.

http://www.ebay.com/itm/400685460452?_trksid=p2055119.m1438.l2649&ssPageName=STRK%3AMEBIDX%3AIT


Great find Famvburg,and we can put them here;


And from Popular Mechanics;


http://books.google.com.eg/books?id=xdwDAAAAMBAJ&printsec=frontcover&dq=popular+mechanics+1955&hl=en&sa=X&ei=Q5MEVLHaBqmu0QWsoYHQDw&ved=0CCQQ6AEwAg#v=onepage&q=popular%20mechanics%201955&f=false

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Re: Western Artists' Concepts of Soviet aircraft during the Cold War
« Reply #249 on: September 10, 2014, 07:46:24 am »
And;

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Re: Western Artists' Concepts of Soviet aircraft during the Cold War
« Reply #250 on: September 11, 2014, 07:49:35 am »
Hi hesham,very cool concepts,thanks a lot for sharing.




           best regards


           pedro

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Re: Western Artists' Concepts of Soviet aircraft during the Cold War
« Reply #251 on: September 11, 2014, 07:54:14 am »
Thank you Pedrospe.

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Re: Western Artists' Concepts of Soviet aircraft during the Cold War
« Reply #252 on: September 27, 2014, 05:21:58 am »
Hi,


here is some strange concepts for Russian aircraft,specially in picture 1.



http://civilavia.info/forum/viewtopic.php?id=1358

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Re: Western Artists' Concepts of Soviet aircraft during the Cold War
« Reply #253 on: December 07, 2014, 06:05:14 am »
Three more images I received from "famvburg" ...
He was my North, my South, my East and West,
My working week and my Sunday rest,
My noon, my midnight, my talk, my song;
I thought that love would last forever; I was wrong.
...
For nothing now can ever come to any good.
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W.H.Auden (1945)

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Re: Western Artists' Concepts of Soviet aircraft during the Cold War
« Reply #254 on: December 07, 2014, 08:34:35 am »
Those drawings are remarkably correct, at least with regards to the plan views, so they probably
were made using satellite imagery, I think.
It takes a long time, before all mistakes are made ...

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Re: Western Artists' Concepts of Soviet aircraft during the Cold War
« Reply #255 on: December 08, 2014, 06:33:55 am »
Thanks for the help Deino!

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Re: Western Artists' Concepts of Soviet aircraft during the Cold War
« Reply #256 on: December 08, 2014, 11:30:48 am »
Those drawings are remarkably correct, at least with regards to the plan views, so they probably
were made using satellite imagery, I think.


IIRC, some of the overheads were published in the open literature in the 80s.

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Re: Western Artists' Concepts of Soviet aircraft during the Cold War
« Reply #257 on: December 30, 2014, 09:15:24 am »
From 64 years (!) ago. Saw this on Facebook somewhere and then found a copy on eBay. Thanks to Deino for explaining to me how to reduce the sizes of images! I had no idea it is so simple! I think the only design they got correct was the MiG-9.

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Re: Western Artists' Concepts of Soviet aircraft during the Cold War
« Reply #258 on: January 03, 2015, 08:07:25 am »
From AW&ST, Feb. 19.1979, an overhead drawing of a Tu-144D - based bomber.

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Re: Western Artists' Concepts of Soviet aircraft during the Cold War
« Reply #259 on: January 03, 2015, 08:08:56 am »
From AW&ST Feb. 19, 1979, an artist concept of the Super Foxbat, to be later known as the MiG-31 Foxhound.

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Re: Western Artists' Concepts of Soviet aircraft during the Cold War
« Reply #260 on: January 03, 2015, 08:09:05 am »
Many thanks famvburg!

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Re: Western Artists' Concepts of Soviet aircraft during the Cold War
« Reply #261 on: February 05, 2015, 04:56:43 am »

the Yak-26 aircraft.


Also a drawing to Yak Mandrake.


FR 8/1963


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Re: Western Artists' Concepts of Soviet aircraft during the Cold War
« Reply #262 on: February 05, 2015, 08:00:02 am »
Don't know what/who Parker Models was but this looks to be a resin model of the Mig 29 based on early artist conceptions.  The person selling this also has similar models of what looks like artist conceptions of the Flanker and Fencer.  I don't know if these were 'garage' models or something more offical.
http://www.ebay.com/itm/PARKER-MODELS-1-48-SOVIET-MIG-OR-SUKHOI-80-039-S-CONCEPT-FIGHTER-DISPLAY-MODEL-/251822427337?&_trksid=p2056016.m2518.l4276

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Re: Western Artists' Concepts of Soviet aircraft during the Cold War
« Reply #263 on: February 05, 2015, 01:39:26 pm »
Great find RAP,


but I am also can't ID it,if it was a variant of MiG aircraft 518,the cockpit is different,and if it was a
variant of Sukhoi T10,the spine is different ?.
« Last Edit: February 05, 2015, 01:56:11 pm by hesham »

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Re: Western Artists' Concepts of Soviet aircraft during the Cold War
« Reply #264 on: February 06, 2015, 08:08:34 am »
Unfortunately I don't know anything about this model or what aircraft it is supposed to represent.  I checked Ebay today and it has sold along with the other models so unfortunately I can provide pictures of the other ones for comparison.  I should have at least copied the photos. I glad you caught this one.  Oh well, live and learn.

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Re: Western Artists' Concepts of Soviet aircraft during the Cold War
« Reply #265 on: February 06, 2015, 10:27:32 am »
The models are likely of Su-27/MiG-29 "artists impressions", but how old they are is obviously uncertain.


According to http://www.buzzfile.com/business/Parker-Models-909-597-6287


"Parker Models" seems to have been trading for 16 years, but obviously Mr Parker could have done these specific models earlier.
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Re: Western Artists' Concepts of Soviet aircraft during the Cold War
« Reply #266 on: February 06, 2015, 01:55:51 pm »
Thank you my dear Paul.

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Re: Western Artists' Concepts of Soviet aircraft during the Cold War
« Reply #267 on: February 07, 2015, 05:51:00 pm »
I contacted the seller to see if he could provide more info on the models.  He said these were produced in the early early 1980's by Al Parker.  Parker worked for Hughes in their model shop and also produced patterns and models to the aircraft industry.  He was also involved with a company called Marketing Aids (out of business) that manufactured factory models for the aviation industry.  I think there was a book back in the 1980s called Soviet Warplanes.  They had some artist concepts of what the next generation of Soviet aircraft would look like.  These models seem similar to what was in that book if I recall correctly. 

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Re: Western Artists' Concepts of Soviet aircraft during the Cold War
« Reply #268 on: February 07, 2015, 07:14:31 pm »
Some MiG-29 artists impressions









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"They can't see our arses for dust."
 
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Re: Western Artists' Concepts of Soviet aircraft during the Cold War
« Reply #270 on: February 07, 2015, 11:01:00 pm »
Looks quite like the Flight drawing to me.
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Re: Western Artists' Concepts of Soviet aircraft during the Cold War
« Reply #271 on: February 08, 2015, 03:21:49 am »
My dear Paul,


I think that,I saw a drawing to early MiG-29 Model,90 % looks like this one,but where ?,
book or magazine ?.

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Re: Western Artists' Concepts of Soviet aircraft during the Cold War
« Reply #272 on: February 08, 2015, 04:20:15 am »
Hi,


here is a Super-MiG fighter Model and Drawing,I never know they made a Model for it.


FR 3/1964

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Re: Western Artists' Concepts of Soviet aircraft during the Cold War
« Reply #273 on: February 08, 2015, 03:47:14 pm »
Aurora also made a very similar kit to the Lindberg kit.

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Re: Western Artists' Concepts of Soviet aircraft during the Cold War
« Reply #274 on: February 18, 2015, 11:58:13 pm »
Aritst's concepts of Sukhoi scissorwing fighter concept known as MFP or Su-41. Is this an imagined Russian Federation or Soviet Union aircraft concept?

Source:
http://www.paralay.com/mfp.html
http://m.kaskus.co.id/post/51a5e8831cd7195727000010
http://www.turbosquid.com/3d-models/sukhoi-su-41-obj/396636
« Last Edit: February 19, 2015, 12:01:28 am by Triton »

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Re: Western Artists' Concepts of Soviet aircraft during the Cold War
« Reply #275 on: February 19, 2015, 08:02:34 am »
That´s a great concept aircraft,thanks a lot for sharing.


              best regards


              pedro

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Re: Western Artists' Concepts of Soviet aircraft during the Cold War
« Reply #276 on: February 22, 2015, 09:39:30 am »
It's an interesting shape, but I doubt it's a serious proposal. There would be mechanical complexity and weight issues to consider, not to mention that the fore wings would interfere with the efficiency of the hind wings. On the other hand, it does seem to be one way to keep the center of pressure's location under precise control.
Jesus is coming soon. Be prepared for Him.

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Re: Western Artists' Concepts of Soviet aircraft during the Cold War
« Reply #277 on: April 05, 2015, 07:04:37 am »
Hi,


here is a hypothetical drawing to Soviet Ram-L and Tupolev Tu-22M.


Flygvapennytt 4-1971 & 2-1980

Offline LowObservable

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Re: Western Artists' Concepts of Soviet aircraft during the Cold War
« Reply #278 on: September 08, 2015, 04:50:59 am »
That RAM-L that I designed sure got around.


//sorry

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Re: Western Artists' Concepts of Soviet aircraft during the Cold War
« Reply #279 on: September 08, 2015, 06:47:07 pm »
It looks like the front and rear wings share a pivot point.  Can you imagine the weight of those things?  You're going to head way into a diminishing returns curve.

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Re: Western Artists' Concepts of Soviet aircraft during the Cold War
« Reply #280 on: September 27, 2015, 02:11:29 am »
This what i have....
But it seemd that this jet apsolutely fake...

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Re: Western Artists' Concepts of Soviet aircraft during the Cold War
« Reply #281 on: September 27, 2015, 06:05:18 am »
This what i have....
But it seemd that this jet apsolutely fake...

This looks a lot like one of those old Lindberg or Aurora 1:48 scale models my dad used to have. Completely inaccurate but nice!

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Re: Western Artists' Concepts of Soviet aircraft during the Cold War
« Reply #282 on: November 26, 2015, 04:17:08 pm »
Hi! Tu-200.
We can see some tail horizontal stabilizer position in these drawings.
« Last Edit: November 26, 2015, 04:21:25 pm by blackkite »

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Re: Western Artists' Concepts of Soviet aircraft during the Cold War
« Reply #283 on: November 26, 2015, 04:27:22 pm »
I believe the so-called "Tu-200" was a completely bogus Tupolev project resulting from misinterpretation of Soviet information by the West.

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Re: Western Artists' Concepts of Soviet aircraft during the Cold War
« Reply #284 on: November 26, 2015, 05:02:30 pm »
Thansk a lot. Who made up this sinful project? ;D


TuG-75 source : Flying Magazine December 1951
« Last Edit: November 27, 2015, 03:57:33 am by blackkite »

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Re: Western Artists' Concepts of Soviet aircraft during the Cold War
« Reply #285 on: November 26, 2015, 05:47:54 pm »
I thought we still have search function working well at the forum...
http://www.secretprojects.co.uk/forum/index.php/topic,275.msg197442.html#msg197442
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« Last Edit: November 27, 2015, 03:55:32 am by blackkite »

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Re: Western Artists' Concepts of Soviet aircraft during the Cold War
« Reply #287 on: December 13, 2015, 03:56:20 am »
Hi,

the MiG-25 & MiG-23 from 1967,an artist drawings.

Советские самолеты А.С.Яковлев 1979

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Re: Western Artists' Concepts of Soviet aircraft during the Cold War
« Reply #288 on: December 13, 2015, 04:56:25 am »
These are not 'artist drawings', but heavily retouched photos from Domodedovo air parade.
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Re: Western Artists' Concepts of Soviet aircraft during the Cold War
« Reply #289 on: January 10, 2016, 01:47:43 pm »
Also from "Avión" but from March 1956 issue.

This is an hypotetical nuclear powered bomber

Hi,

http://archive.aviationweek.com/image/spread/19551010/28/2

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Re: Western Artists' Concepts of Soviet aircraft during the Cold War
« Reply #290 on: February 18, 2016, 01:33:23 pm »
...
"There are many disbelievers in
stealth, more than a few of them truly technically ignorant and proud of it." Sherm Mullin, Skunk Works

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Re: Western Artists' Concepts of Soviet aircraft during the Cold War
« Reply #292 on: September 28, 2016, 11:37:07 am »
I was fumbling around at lunch today and came across this post. Every time a see reference to tis supposed project, I think of the Chinese J-9.

Service testing of a new single seat single engine fighter with double delta (a la Viggen) wing, closely resembling the "Faithless", intended as the MiG-21 successor.

Air International October 1974

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Re: Western Artists' Concepts of Soviet aircraft during the Cold War
« Reply #293 on: October 01, 2016, 02:12:22 am »
Don't think this one has been shown in this thread before.
Another MiG-31 misidentification, this time as a MiG-225 with VG wings from the early 1980s.

http://www.shipbucket.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=7291

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Re: Western Artists' Concepts of Soviet aircraft during the Cold War
« Reply #294 on: October 02, 2016, 02:53:46 pm »
There is a pic of a model of this 3-view in another thread on the MiG-31, IIRC, here on SPF.

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Re: Western Artists' Concepts of Soviet aircraft during the Cold War
« Reply #295 on: October 02, 2016, 04:13:41 pm »
Don't think this one has been shown in this thread before.
Another MiG-31 misidentification, this time as a MiG-225 with VG wings from the early 1980s.

http://www.shipbucket.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=7291

Nice find my dear Hood,and we can put it here.

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Re: Western Artists' Concepts of Soviet aircraft during the Cold War
« Reply #300 on: June 10, 2017, 09:30:18 am »
What has it to do with the topic? These are Soviet artists' paintings, representing future what-ifs, mainly for Technica-Molodyozhi magazine.
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Re: Western Artists' Concepts of Soviet aircraft during the Cold War
« Reply #301 on: June 10, 2017, 03:57:01 pm »
What has it to do with the topic? These are Soviet artists' paintings, representing future what-ifs, mainly for Technica-Molodyozhi magazine.

By the way,I meant this aircraft only,but when I kept it as a picture,I discovered suddenly it save
all the drawings,I thought it was a hypothetical bomber.

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Re: Western Artists' Concepts of Soviet aircraft during the Cold War
« Reply #302 on: June 11, 2017, 06:14:11 am »
Once more, what it has to do with the topic? It's not 'Western artist concept of Soviet aircraft' in any way. This is what-if art of fictional airliner from a Soviet magazine.
« Last Edit: June 11, 2017, 06:16:00 am by flateric »
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Re: Western Artists' Concepts of Soviet aircraft during the Cold War
« Reply #303 on: June 11, 2017, 06:43:41 am »
Once more, what it has to do with the topic? It's not 'Western artist concept of Soviet aircraft' in any way. This is what-if art of fictional airliner from a Soviet magazine.

OK my dear Flateric,I only explain what I thought wrong.

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Re: Western Artists' Concepts of Soviet aircraft during the Cold War
« Reply #306 on: August 20, 2017, 08:29:54 am »
From JAWA 1985.