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Author Topic: Argentinian Unbuilt Projects  (Read 78737 times)

Offline raravia

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Argentinian Unbuilt Projects
« on: April 07, 2006, 03:28:19 pm »

Hi folks

I've reading about a number of non-built projects during the end of the 40's, the 50's and even the 60's, as IA-39 designed by Kurt Tank, IA-47, IA-48 a delta wing fighter, two projects called Pallavicino 1 and 2 for sure based on the Gloster Meteor, and others without number like the Horten wing fighter or IA Condor etc.

If anyone had illustrations, 3 views or something about it, please let me know.

there's a website wich have little views of some of this projects

http://www.portalaviacion.com/articulos/pulqui.html


Saludos

Fabián


Offline PaulMM (Overscan)

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Re: Argentinian Unbuilt Projects
« Reply #2 on: April 08, 2006, 04:29:25 am »
I know relatively little envelope the non built projects of my own country and
I am so lazy that I have not even gone to the "Museum of the Industry" that is enough near my home to see the prototype of the PulquiII that there conserve.
On the other hand the conservation of the historical legacy of the Argentinean aeronautical industry is usually very bad or null. They have commented me
repeated times that the prototype of the Pucará Charlie is thrown being oxidized in a fallow land
A couple of projects of possible interest:

SAIA90 :  http://www.hangardigital.com.ar/saia90.html

Pucará "Delta": http://www.hangardigital.com.ar/a58.htm

Offline lark

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Re: Argentinian Unbuilt Projects
« Reply #3 on: April 08, 2006, 08:08:50 am »
Hello Fabian,

The Pallavicino 1 and 2 are based - April 1949 - on the
I.Aé.30 Ñamcu.
Both were to be powered by the R.R "Derwent V" powerplants of 1585kg(3.500lb)
static thrust at sea level.

Source : AeroFan-April/June 1997.No.61

Regards.

Paul.

Offline TinWing

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Re: Argentinian Unbuilt Projects
« Reply #4 on: April 08, 2006, 12:31:22 pm »
The Pallavicino 1 and 2 are based - April 1949 - on the
I.Aé.30 Ñamcu.
Both were to be powered by the R.R "Derwent V" powerplants of 1585kg(3.500lb)
static thrust at sea level.

In retrospect, 1949 seems to be a bit late for a Derwent powered project.

Similarly, it is amazing the Pulqui II was still powered by the Nene, long after most every contemporary British project had moved on to the axial flow Avon.

I do have to wonder if Argentina had full access to the latest British engine technology in this period?

Offline elmayerle

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Re: Argentinian Unbuilt Projects
« Reply #5 on: April 08, 2006, 05:05:21 pm »
I know relatively little envelope the non built projects of my own country and
I am so lazy that I have not even gone to the "Museum of the Industry" that is enough near my home to see the prototype of the PulquiII that there conserve.
On the other hand the conservation of the historical legacy of the Argentinean aeronautical industry is usually very bad or null. They have commented me
repeated times that the prototype of the Pucará Charlie is thrown being oxidized in a fallow land
A couple of projects of possible interest:

SAIA90 :  http://www.hangardigital.com.ar/saia90.html

Pucará "Delta": http://www.hangardigital.com.ar/a58.htm

The Pucara "Delta" article was interesting, it could be the "little brother" of Grumman's AX entry. 

Would you happen to have some good drawings and dimensions on the Martin Pescador?  I've been wanting to model an Argentinean aircraft carrying this missile but information is not easy to come by, even online.

Offline TinWing

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Re: Argentinian Unbuilt Projects
« Reply #6 on: April 08, 2006, 06:42:05 pm »
Would you happen to have some good drawings and dimensions on the Martin Pescador?  I've been wanting to model an Argentinean aircraft carrying this missile but information is not easy to come by, even online.

Martin Pescador ASM, 1979

Length:  2940mm
Diameter:  218.5mm
Span:  730mm

Weight:  140kg
Warhead:  40kg

Maximum Speed:  Mach 2.3
Maximum Range:  9km

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Re: Argentinian Unbuilt Projects
« Reply #7 on: April 08, 2006, 09:12:29 pm »
Basically I have the same data that TinWing:

Technical data of the Martín Pescador

Weigh to the launching: 140kg

Warhead weigh: 40 kg

Longitude: 2,94 meters

Span: 0.73 meters

Diameter: 0.29 meters

Reach: between 2.5 and 9 kilometers (it depends on the launching platform)

Speed to the impact around Mach 1

Source: (data and profile of the missile) "Aeroespacio"  (magazine of the Argentinean air force)

I also attach  a schematic cut of a Super Etendard that includes the drawing of a Martín Pescador next to the container of guide's system that I suppose it will be you useful as reference of the proportions of the device.
I have in some place a picture of this missile installed in a helicopter Agusta 109 but I have not been able to find it.

Offline TinWing

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Re: Argentinian Unbuilt Projects
« Reply #8 on: April 09, 2006, 12:47:49 pm »
The Martin Pescador is roughly comparable in size to the training round version of the American Bullpup missile.

Offline elmayerle

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Re: Argentinian Unbuilt Projects
« Reply #9 on: April 09, 2006, 02:25:21 pm »
The Martin Pescador is roughly comparable in size to the training round version of the American Bullpup missile.

Thanks, I'd pretty much gathered that and other reading indicated that, also like the Bullpup, it needed a datalink pod for proper guidance.

Still, all quite useful information.  My thanks to all who provided it.

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Re: Argentinian Unbuilt Projects
« Reply #10 on: April 29, 2006, 02:24:45 am »
Finally I found the image of the version guided by wire of the Martín Pescador presented in "Armas '91".

Offline consealed

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Re: Argentinian Unbuilt Projects
« Reply #11 on: August 31, 2006, 04:54:38 am »
FMA Pulqui Ⅲ is only one I think.
If you have more, please tell me.
The I.A.43 is prelayout of HF-24 according to what I known.
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Offline Skybolt

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Re: Argentinian Unbuilt Projects
« Reply #12 on: August 31, 2006, 06:35:20 am »
Interesting.. Still Kurt Tank involved?

Offline Archibald

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Re: Argentinian Unbuilt Projects
« Reply #13 on: August 31, 2006, 07:31:39 am »
Iae 27 Pulqui was a straight wing fighter powered by a Derwent V. It was conceived by emile Dewoitine, well-known french aircraft designer which had been an active collaborator to the Nazi and Vichy regime.
Article about the Pulqui in October 2006 edition of Le Fana de l'Aviation :o
Later, in 1950, the Iae 33 Pulqui II was drawn by Kurt tank but ended in failure. This same person went to India after the fall of Peron in 1954.
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Offline elmayerle

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Re: Argentinian Unbuilt Projects
« Reply #14 on: August 31, 2006, 08:44:48 am »
The picture rousseau posted appears to be a step between the Pulqui II and what became the HF-24.   As I understand it, one of hte problems with the Pulqui II was that Kurt Tank raised the wing, relative to where it was on the Ta-183 (shoulder -mounded wing as opposed to the mid-wing configuration of the Ta-183) and this increased drag to teh steriment of performance.

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Re: Argentinian Unbuilt Projects
« Reply #15 on: September 01, 2006, 01:12:53 am »

Offline PaulMM (Overscan)

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Re: Argentinian Unbuilt Projects
« Reply #16 on: September 01, 2006, 01:28:14 am »
Merged with existing thread. Rousseau, please search for existing threads before creating new ones.
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Offline hesham

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Re: Argentinian Unbuilt Projects
« Reply #17 on: September 09, 2006, 08:56:59 am »
Hallo,

FMA IA-60    was a Pucara airframe but fitted by two turbofan engines.
FMA IA-62    was two seat primary trainer ,powered by one 440 kw
                    (950 shp) Turbomeca Astazou XIVR turboprop engine.
FMA IA-59    was a pilotless aircraft.
« Last Edit: September 19, 2011, 05:10:23 am by hesham »

Offline Antonio

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Re: Argentinian Unbuilt Projects
« Reply #18 on: October 02, 2006, 08:12:26 am »
Don't miss Argentinian unbuilt projects on Le Fana de L'Aviation 443 (October 2006)!!!!

Offline Archibald

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Re: Argentinian Unbuilt Projects
« Reply #19 on: October 03, 2006, 01:51:15 pm »
 :D Buy it some hours ago. There's the well-known Pulquis, but also plenties of fascinating stuff, including Horten mach 2 fighter!
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Offline smurf

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Re: Argentinian Unbuilt Projects
« Reply #20 on: October 03, 2006, 02:35:33 pm »
Le Fana de L'Aviation 443 (October 2006)
Please tell me how to get this

Offline Antonio

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Re: Argentinian Unbuilt Projects
« Reply #21 on: October 03, 2006, 04:15:16 pm »
You can contact them here:

georgie.murat@editions-lariviere.fr

Offline smurf

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Re: Argentinian Unbuilt Projects
« Reply #22 on: October 04, 2006, 12:59:59 am »
Thanks P.

Offline hesham

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Re: Argentinian Unbuilt Projects
« Reply #23 on: October 04, 2006, 06:58:32 am »
Hi,

some Argentina little known aircraft:


FMA IA-25     assault glider.
 ,,    IA-28     twin engined fighter based on IA-24 with Rolls-Royce Merlin engines.
 ,,    IA-31 and IA-32    two seat trainer aircraft.
 ,,    IA-54 Carancho     sailplane.
« Last Edit: September 08, 2013, 10:11:44 am by hesham »

Online Dronte

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Re: Argentinian Unbuilt Projects
« Reply #24 on: October 04, 2006, 06:52:41 pm »
It is a shame that the Argentinean of the forum does not contribute anything, so...

Horten's first fighter proposal to Argentinian Air Force:


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Re: Argentinian Unbuilt Projects
« Reply #25 on: October 04, 2006, 07:05:57 pm »
The more advanced IA 37 in its two configurations and one projected all weather version of the Pulqui II

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Re: Argentinian Unbuilt Projects
« Reply #26 on: October 04, 2006, 07:25:17 pm »
The IA48

-Wind tunel models

-Original planes of a launchable model

-Artistic concept

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Re: Argentinian Unbuilt Projects
« Reply #27 on: October 04, 2006, 07:41:40 pm »
Kurt Tank's  IAe36 Condor II fast transport  31/36 pass. 5 RR Nene II engines:

-Original planes

-Wind tunnel model with the original tail configuration

Online Dronte

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Re: Argentinian Unbuilt Projects
« Reply #28 on: October 04, 2006, 07:57:24 pm »
 IAe36 Condor II with the final tail configuration resultant of the experience with the Pulqui II

(source of all pics "Las Alas de Perón" de R. Burzaco ed.1995 -sold out-)

Offline Archibald

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Re: Argentinian Unbuilt Projects
« Reply #29 on: October 05, 2006, 12:44:39 am »
Dronte those pics are superb! Very interesting... It would be nice to model this mach-2 argentinian fighter...
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Offline Antonio

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Re: Argentinian Unbuilt Projects
« Reply #30 on: October 05, 2006, 03:13:47 am »
¡Qué bueno Dronte!, Mil Gracias :o

Offline lark

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Re: Argentinian Unbuilt Projects
« Reply #31 on: October 05, 2006, 05:37:46 am »
Excellent ! Thanks.

Offline Kim Margosein

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Re: Argentinian Unbuilt Projects
« Reply #32 on: February 18, 2007, 05:20:32 pm »
I did build one.  I started with a 1/100 B-58 and lots of milliput.

Kim Margosein

Offline Archibald

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Re: Argentinian Unbuilt Projects
« Reply #33 on: February 19, 2007, 03:55:14 am »
Good basis, the B-58 looks quite similar to a (much) scaled-down B-58.

what scale is your model ? 
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Offline raravia

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Re: Argentinian Unbuilt Projects
« Reply #34 on: February 19, 2007, 01:38:09 pm »


Thank you

Amazing configuration this IA 36 Condor.

Gracias

Raravia

Offline Kim Margosein

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Re: Argentinian Unbuilt Projects
« Reply #35 on: February 27, 2007, 04:31:50 pm »
Good basis, the B-58 looks quite similar to a (much) scaled-down B-58.

what scale is your model ? 

1/72.  As soon as I get a bit more comfortable with this forum, I'll post the pictures of it.  I also have a 1/72 G10N.

Kim Margosein

Offline reynald.d.chatillon

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Re: Argentinian Unbuilt Projects
« Reply #36 on: September 26, 2007, 07:34:28 pm »
The Pulqui II was a "built" plane, even if only prototypes. Find attached some renders I did in three versions:

1st. Preliminary 3D model with proper livery
2nd. Preliminary 3D model with the colors used later by the Argentinean Sabres
3rd. and 4th. Final 3D model with the livery of the acrobatic (originally Sabre) squadron.

some of these renders were already published in the lwg3d forum.

Cheers.

p.d.: this is the proper thread/forum for the renders?

« Last Edit: September 26, 2007, 07:40:45 pm by reynald.d.chatillon »
Well, boys, we got three engines out, we got more holes in us than a horse trader's mule, the radio is gone and we're leaking fuel and if we was flying any lower why we'd need sleigh bells on this thing...

Offline flateric

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Re: Argentinian Unbuilt Projects
« Reply #37 on: September 26, 2007, 08:04:21 pm »
I think that if this corresponds to thread subject and 'real' unbuilt/built secret project, CGI can posted here. For photos of unofficial models, drawings and CGI images we have Scale Modelling, Fan Art & Profiles section. Good work, BTW!
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Offline boxkite

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Re: Argentinian Unbuilt Projects
« Reply #38 on: November 05, 2007, 02:01:57 pm »
The Czech aviation magazine Letectvi + Kosmonautika # 23/1990 reported on a Argentinian helicopter projected by the company Fabrica Argentina de Materials Aeroespaciales.

Who of you knows more on it?

Offline Petrus

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Re: Argentinian Unbuilt Projects
« Reply #39 on: July 24, 2008, 10:57:14 am »
Cesare Pallavicino, an Italian designer who during WW2 worked for the Caproni company designed (at least) two two-engined (RR Derwent) jets based on the Nancu long-range fighter.

Here are links to websites where you may see how the Pallavicino's aircraft would have looked:

http://www.jrlucariny.com/Site2008/pallaviI/pallaviI.html

http://www.jrlucariny.com/Site2008/pallav2I/pallav2I.html

Best regards,
Piotr

Offline Petrus

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Re: Argentinian Unbuilt Projects
« Reply #40 on: July 24, 2008, 02:41:19 pm »
And now more info on the Pallavicino's projects. They never had any official designation, so they remain known as Project 1 and Project 2.

The Project 1, a radical modification of the IAe-30 Nancu (also designed by Pallavicino) was to be a "heavy fighter", in a class of the Gloster Meteor: one-seater, two Rolls-Royce Derwent V engines each producing 3.500 lb static thrust. The plane was to have been armed with four Hispano-Suiza 20mm automatic cannon.

Here are its specifications:

Wing span: 15,00m
Length: 13,98  m
Height: 4,383 m
Wing area: 35,3 m2
Empty weight: 4.225 kg
All-up weight: 7.950 kg
Wing loading: 225 kg/sq.m

Max. speed @ SL: 910 kph
Max. speed @ 9150 m: 970 kph
Climbing speed @ SL: 26 mps
Climb speed to 9150 m: 8'22"
Ceiling: 15.240m

3 tons of fuel
range 2.300 km

Project 2 was conceived as a light bomber. Two crew: the pilot and the navigator, who was to be seated in a glazed nose or behind the pilot (in such a case the nose would remain solid as in the attached drawing). Armament included four Hispano-Suiza cannon and two bombs of 900 or 1000 kg each in an internal bomb bay. It could also carry twenty 75mm air-to-ground rockets.

Specifications of the Project 2:

Wing span: 18,70 m
Length: 14,00m
Height: 4,65 m
Wing area: 46,65 sq.m
Wing loading: 280 kg/sq.m
Empty weight: 6.500 kg
All-up weight: 13.070 kg

Max. speed @ SL: 810 kph
Max. speed @ 9150 m: 870 kph
Climbing speed: 15,2 mps
Climb time to: 9150 m in 15'55"
Ceiling: 12.200 m

Range with 4 t of fuel and 2 t of bombs: 3.300 km

And finally below you may have a look at the Pallavicino's aircraft drawings (poor quality of the scans is an effect of my scanner's malfunction, for which I am sorry).

[source: Italian magazine "Aero Fan" n. 61, April- June 1997]

Best regards,
Piotr
« Last Edit: July 24, 2008, 02:44:11 pm by Petrus »

Offline bluedonkey99

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Re: Argentinian Unbuilt Projects
« Reply #41 on: August 17, 2008, 02:29:30 pm »
certainly an interesting article - pictorially, a i know little spanish.

but there do seem strong  influences from Me 263 / MIG I-270 and Gloster Aircraft!?

Offline vajt

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Re: Argentinian Unbuilt Projects
« Reply #42 on: August 18, 2008, 10:48:12 am »
What a shame...a country with so much potential and now they barely have anything to show for it. Just some old Pucaras and the IA-63 which pales in comparison to the potentail that these other designs had. I wonder what Argentina would be building right now if back in the late 40's they were serious in building these aircraft and kept on building them through the decades. I would imagine they could be at least at the level of a Gripen.

-----JT-----

Offline hesham

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Re: Argentinian Unbuilt Projects
« Reply #43 on: June 05, 2009, 12:41:21 pm »

Offline martinbayer

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Re: Argentinian Unbuilt Projects
« Reply #44 on: June 05, 2009, 01:23:03 pm »
I remember coming across a mention somewhere (unfortunately I don't recall the source) that there was allegedly a Pucara design study with jet engines. Does anybody have more information?

Martin
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Offline cluttonfred

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Re: Argentinian Unbuilt Projects
« Reply #46 on: June 08, 2009, 11:40:25 am »
Great find, thanks, but that single-seat Pucará sure has one ugly nose.   ;D
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Offline Loren

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Re: Argentinian Unbuilt Projects
« Reply #47 on: June 08, 2009, 12:16:53 pm »
martinbayer

Do you mean the IA 63 Pampa? http://www.fas.org/man/dod-101/sys/ac/row/pampa.htm
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Offline Apophenia

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Re: Argentinian Unbuilt Projects
« Reply #48 on: June 08, 2009, 01:40:50 pm »
I remember coming across a mention somewhere (unfortunately I don't recall the source) that there was allegedly a Pucara design study with jet engines. Does anybody have more information?

Martin,

FMA planned a version of the IA-58 Pucará or or "Superpucará" with twin 1048 kg thrust Astafans (ie: the Astazou with a 600mm or 700mm variable-pitch fan added). Some sources designate this jet Pucará as IA-60.* [Some sources list the IA-60 as the Pucará-R ... could that be for Reacción?]

The twin Astafans were to be mounted on the rear fuselage, the former nacelles becoming just undercarriage fairings (and fuel pods). The Astafans were aimed at the civilian market (Aero Commander, Ted Smith Super Star 3000, Italair F,22 Jet Condor) leading the Argentine AF to view them as unsuited to a military role.

There's a bunch of fan art out there for Über Pucarás pretending to be mini-Warthogs. AFAIK, the actual "Superpucará" project was for a two-seat trainer not an attack aircraft. Attached is a front view of what might be the "Superpucará".

"Superpucará" Specs: max speed 0.73 Mach, ceiling 10,000 m, max T/O 6500 kg (empty 3800 kg).

[* There's a conflict with this designation since it was also applied to a 1977 fighter bomber project by Héctor Eduardo Ruiz. This wing-winged 2-seater resembled the AI-63 Pampa but with the Pucará's T-tail. IA 60 fighter-bomber specs: max speed 950 km/h, 1 x RR Spey, 2 x 30 mm DEFA 554, 2000 kg bomb load. A full-scale mockup was built. http://www.argothypermedia.com/fma/19551993/19551993_06ac.html]

Does anyone know what the IA-61 project was? Some say Pucará-T, a pressurized transport derivative of the IA-58.

Offline martinbayer

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Re: Argentinian Unbuilt Projects
« Reply #49 on: June 11, 2009, 08:18:50 am »
Thanks, Apophenia! That pretty much matches what I remember reading about (still couldn't trace the source though).

Martin
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Offline martinbayer

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Re: Argentinian Unbuilt Projects
« Reply #50 on: June 11, 2009, 08:37:27 am »
Loren,

it was the first design shown in Apophenia's post, not the Pampa. I remember coming across the Pampa iron bird for integration testing at the then still Dornier plant in Immenstaad at Lake Konstanz during an internship in the winter of '82/'83, since Dornier provided design support to FMA based on their experience with the Alpha Jet. It was (at least to me) somewhat amusing to one day see crates with the Martin Baker ejection seats being delivered only months after the Falklands war, when officially tensions were still running somewhat high...

Martin
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Offline airman

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Re: Argentinian Unbuilt Projects
« Reply #51 on: June 11, 2009, 10:26:06 am »
oh.... good, interesting links !  ;)
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Offline Hood

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Re: Argentinian Unbuilt Projects
« Reply #52 on: November 14, 2009, 04:51:23 am »
After much searching I've come across some other Argentine projects.

I.Ae. 26
A conventional fighter aircraft designed by Emile Dewoitine with a choice of either a 1,030hp Rolls Royce Merlin III or a Daimler-Benz DB 601-A. The fighter was superseded by the I.Ae.27 Pulqui project. 
Wingspan 10.2m; length 8.9m; wing area 15.92 m²; total weight 2740 kg; max speed 560km/h; ceiling 10,000m and range 1,400km. Armament was planned to be 20mm caoon and four 7.5mm MG in the wings.

I.Ae. 28
This was based on the I.Ae 24 Calquin and became the Super Calquin and also seems to have covered an airliner version too. The bomber was to have RR Merlin III engines and the airliner either 950hp Bristol Mercury radials or French GR-14 Gnome-Rhones.
The airliner had a span of 22.5m; length 17.5m; wing area 66m²; max speed 465kmh; cruise speed 430kmh and range 3,000km.

I.Ae. 29
Another jet fighter proposal to supersede the I.Ae. 27 Pulqui with straight wings and lower nose intakes like the P-80 and powered by a RR Derwent and dates from 1947-48 since it was abandoned when Kurt Tank began work on the Pulqui II.
The I.Ae. 29 had a span of 9.5m; length 9.2m; wing area 18.7m²; maximum speed 800km/h and 900km range. Armament seems to be 4 20mm cannon or 13mm machine-guns in the nose ahead of the intakes.

IA.36 Condor
Began in late 1951 by Kurt Tank as a 32-40 passenger subsonic airliner with five RR Nenes mounted annularly around the rear fuselage with swept wings and looking spookily like the Armstrong Whitworth AW.167 of April 1953. Tank hoped to use newer engines in a production model and a fuselage mock-up was made as well as wind tunnel tests. Estimated speed and range was 950kmh and 5,000km.

IA.39
An 18-seat short-haul airliner based on the IA.35 and powered by two 740hp R-19 'El Indio' radials.

IA.40
A supersonic fighter designed by Kurt Tank. This is shown in the photo on page 1 of this thread and I've always suspected it to be the HL-24 Marut and other sources seem to have indentical stats to the Indian fighter and indeed pictures and plans of this fighter seem to be indentical. I think that when Tank left his employment in Argentina shortly after drafting this fighter (perhaps deterred by the economic position to fund development) he found a willing buyer in the Indian AF to complete development. Certainly he seems to have made few changes. Of course the Orpheus was too weak to power this design supersonically.
 
IA.42
A 1952 design for a four-engined variant of the IA.39 with a pressurised cabin for 36 passengers, twin fins and powered by four radials (perhaps 740hp R-19 'El Indio' radials). A twin-engined bomber very similar in appearance to the B-25 was also drafted at the same time with two 740hp R-19 'El Indio' radials.
 
IA.43
A delta-wing research aircraft powered by a RR Nene with a planned maximum speed of 950km/h and a ceiling of 16,000m.


Offline Chicken kana

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Re: Argentinian Unbuilt Projects
« Reply #53 on: January 08, 2010, 07:48:28 am »
I read yesterday Galland`s book and I think what look like that plane is. I think if you can help me?

Offline Panzerknacker

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Re: Argentinian Unbuilt Projects
« Reply #54 on: March 02, 2010, 07:02:16 pm »
Interesting topic ¡¡

Some comments:

A) the strange layout of the engines in the Tank "Condor" projekt was for eaerodinamic cleanlyness and the realtive lack of power of those, so five were used to provide some decent trust. There were tramitation to manufacture the Drwent over here in the years 1953-54 but that end in nothing after the 1955 coup.

Quote
The Pucara "Delta" article was interesting, it could be the "little brother" of Grumman's AX entry.


B ) The so called A-58 conceptual project is not precicely the Delta, the Pucara Delta is actually an somewhat modernized variant of the IA-58A, the Delta is still in use in Argentina.

Quote
I.Ae. 26
A conventional fighter aircraft designed by Emile Dewoitine with a choice of either a 1,030hp Rolls Royce Merlin III or a Daimler-Benz DB 601-A. The fighter was superseded by the I.Ae.27 Pulqui project.  
Wingspan 10.2m; length 8.9m; wing area 15.92 m²; total weight 2740 kg; max speed 560km/h; ceiling 10,000m and range 1,400km. Armament was planned to be 20mm caoon and four 7.5mm MG in the wings.


3 view of the IA 26 design.


« Last Edit: March 04, 2010, 07:13:08 am by Matej »

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Re: Argentinian Unbuilt Projects
« Reply #55 on: March 03, 2010, 02:53:59 pm »
good thread, now i know that Kurt Tank had worked for IA!
writers , bloggers , content-curators ,  music composer and passionate of militaria and uchronia

Offline Panzerknacker

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Re: Argentinian Unbuilt Projects
« Reply #56 on: March 03, 2010, 06:05:34 pm »
He did until 1955. this is one of the last design, medium transport IA-42 ( worth to mention that IA is just a prefix, the manufacturer is FMA, Fabrica Militar de Aviones )
The IA-43 had 4 x 760 hp radial engines and 30 meters wingspan.



This is the iA-43, not sure but I think was a Horten desig due the wing configuration, the iA 43 specification proposed as advanced jet trainer, it had 3 seats and and RR Nenen engine.

« Last Edit: March 04, 2010, 07:11:41 am by Matej »

Offline Hammer Birchgrove

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Re: Argentinian Unbuilt Projects
« Reply #57 on: March 04, 2010, 09:18:24 am »
I wonder the chance for having Argentina, Egypt and India (read: those non-superpowers who had German inventors/designers/engineers working for them) collaborating in their aircraft projects, back in the day...  ???
To the heroism of the Resistance Fighters -- past, present and future -- this post is respectfully dedicated.

Offline Panzerknacker

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Re: Argentinian Unbuilt Projects
« Reply #58 on: March 04, 2010, 03:40:32 pm »
Those 3 countries ? hmmm not many chances I guess  ;D

This is the IA-40, the last K tank design before his definitive departure.


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Re: Argentinian Unbuilt Projects
« Reply #59 on: March 05, 2010, 02:05:38 am »
Great images - are they from a book or magazine? If I could trouble you for a source please :)
"They can't see our arses for dust."
 
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Offline Retrofit

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Re: Argentinian Unbuilt Projects
« Reply #60 on: March 05, 2010, 02:14:17 am »
This is the iA-43, not sure but I think was a Horten desig due the wing configuration, the iA 43 specification proposed as advanced jet trainer, it had 3 seats and and RR Nenen engine.

This is the IA-40, the last K tank design before his definitive departure.

Hej,
According to the following source (http://www.aeromilitaria.com.ar/ind/aviones/index.htm), the IA-43 was the "Pulqui III" single-seat combat aircraft project (and "ancestor" of the HAL HF-24 "Marut"). No data concerning the IA-40!
The reference of the 4-seat delta-wing liaison aircraft/advanced jet trainer, derived from the IA-37, seems to be IA-50. (Reference later re-issued for the "Guarani II" transport aircraft).
Any confirmation, please?

All the best,
Philippe
« Last Edit: March 05, 2010, 02:33:29 am by Retrofit »

Offline lark

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Re: Argentinian Unbuilt Projects
« Reply #61 on: March 05, 2010, 06:36:47 am »
Drawings are on a site found by Apophenia...

http://www.argothypermedia.com/fma/19431955/19431955_08c.html

Good luck.

Offline Panzerknacker

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Re: Argentinian Unbuilt Projects
« Reply #62 on: March 05, 2010, 03:28:16 pm »
Quote
such wonderful postings, these would make for an interesting book in their own right (South American Secret Projects?)
many thanks for sharing, most of those i hadnt seen til now

Could be, however there are only 2 countries designing aircraft in South America and we beat Brazil by far at list in the number of prototipes  ;D

Quote
Great images - are they from a book or magazine? If I could trouble you for a source please


Sorry, my bad, the source is a book, "Fabrica Militar de Aviones, historias y testimonios" edited by the Industry Office of the Cordoba Province.

Quote
Hej,
According to the following source (http://www.aeromilitaria.com.ar/ind/aviones/index.htm), the IA-43 was the "Pulqui III" single-seat combat aircraft project (and "ancestor" of the HAL HF-24 "Marut"). No data concerning the IA-40!
The reference of the 4-seat delta-wing liaison aircraft/advanced jet trainer, derived from the IA-37, seems to be IA-50. (Reference later re-issued for the "Guarani II" transport aircraft).
Any confirmation, please?

All the best,
Philippe

Probably those were the preliminary IA numbers, The IA-50 Guarani was an turboprop transport made in series so I suppose the designation of the project IA-43/50 was overrun by the earlier. I think IA-43 should be more correct in order not to get confused.

The iA-37 was built as an glider proto only. Is interesting to realize thet the german glider proto planification was used well after the departure of the last german designer , even the more modern IA-58 pucara and IA-63 Pampa had its own wooden glider variant.



« Last Edit: March 05, 2010, 03:33:19 pm by Panzerknacker »

Offline lark

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Re: Argentinian Unbuilt Projects
« Reply #63 on: March 06, 2010, 02:52:50 am »
Excellent Panzerknacker,
Do you have a bit more info about the book
you mentions .( Publisher ,ISBN nr ...)
Thanks in advance.

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Re: Argentinian Unbuilt Projects
« Reply #64 on: March 06, 2010, 07:00:28 am »
Quote
Do you have a bit more info about the book
you mentions

That's your link:

http://www.mincyt.cba.gov.ar/site/fabricamilitar/index.html
 ;)

Offline lark

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Re: Argentinian Unbuilt Projects
« Reply #65 on: March 06, 2010, 11:00:57 am »
Thanks a lot !

Offline TinWing

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Re: Argentinian Unbuilt Projects
« Reply #66 on: March 06, 2010, 03:46:03 pm »
Quote
Do you have a bit more info about the book
you mentions

That's your link:

http://www.mincyt.cba.gov.ar/site/fabricamilitar/index.html
 ;)


The direct link to the HUGE 25.8MB .pdf book :
http://www.mincyt.cba.gov.ar/site/fabricamilitar/descarga/fma2008.pdf

Considering the file size and low speed of the connection, I would suggest right clicking the link and selecting "Save Link As" instead of attempting to open it in the browser.






Offline blackkite

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Re: Argentinian Unbuilt Projects
« Reply #67 on: March 06, 2010, 04:19:12 pm »
Thanks! Very interesting book.

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Re: Argentinian Unbuilt Projects
« Reply #68 on: March 06, 2010, 07:30:34 pm »
Thanks! Very interesting book.

Indeed,
Many thanks Tinwing!

Offline Panzerknacker

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Re: Argentinian Unbuilt Projects
« Reply #69 on: March 06, 2010, 08:23:49 pm »
There you got it that is the book. The book is free to use without comercial purposes do can be dowloaded without guilt.  B)

An interesting aircraft wich is not very well portrayed in there is the IA-55. The IA-55 was proposed as bivalent Trainer/COIN plataform, it was derivated from the agricultural aircraft IA-53 Mamboreta ( mantis), the engine would be an Astazoun 640 hp turboprop and the fixed armament 4 x 7,62mm MAG in the wings. However the Air Force wasnt very much convinced by the single engine and slow speed, so they asked for an more powerful plane, eventually the requeriment evolved in a twin engine project, the Pucara.


Real IA-55 profile:
« Last Edit: March 06, 2010, 08:26:20 pm by Panzerknacker »

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Re: Argentinian Unbuilt Projects
« Reply #70 on: March 07, 2010, 12:01:43 am »
Some great stuff in that book. Jet Pucara:
"They can't see our arses for dust."
 
- Sir Sydney Camm

Offline PaulMM (Overscan)

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Re: Argentinian Unbuilt Projects
« Reply #71 on: March 07, 2010, 12:15:07 am »
IA 63 Avanzado, and possibly a design to SAIA-AC-90 - the text is unclear (it talks about 1600km/h, and a Pratt & Whitney F-100-PW-100 engine).

"They can't see our arses for dust."
 
- Sir Sydney Camm

Offline lark

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Re: Argentinian Unbuilt Projects
« Reply #72 on: March 07, 2010, 11:00:41 am »
Many thanks gents..

Offline Maveric

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Re: Argentinian Unbuilt Projects
« Reply #73 on: March 07, 2010, 01:31:38 pm »
...yes.Thanks ;D
I see you on the dark side of the moon.

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Re: Argentinian Unbuilt Projects
« Reply #74 on: March 08, 2010, 08:13:46 am »
The Advanced IA63 looks nice. Has a similar line as the AMX.

-----JT-----

Offline Panzerknacker

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Re: Argentinian Unbuilt Projects
« Reply #75 on: March 08, 2010, 02:51:19 pm »
SAIA ( Sistema de Armas Integrado Argentino = Integrate argentine weapons system ) was a bit unrealistic because it relied in a sofisticated sofware and hardware made by argentine private enteprises whom had no previous experience manufacturing avionics.

That summoned to the big loss of money caused by the failure of the combined bussines aircraft ( argentine-brazilian) CBA-123 Vector and the participation in the J-PATS programme, killed the projekt.

The IA-63 avanzado was more like it, still is proposed as the argentine future combat aircraft, I be seen also that project designated as ACL ( avion de combate liviano, Light combat aircraft) .There are a lot of plans right now in the FMA, the sure thing is the fabrication of more AT-63 trainer/light attacks an the modernization of the IA-58Ds since the budget has been already aproved. But could be some space for the ACL, we will have to wait and see .
« Last Edit: March 08, 2010, 02:56:35 pm by Panzerknacker »

Offline robunos

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Re: Argentinian Unbuilt Projects
« Reply #76 on: June 21, 2010, 01:23:12 pm »
Quote
FMA IA-62 was two seat primary trainer ,powered by one 440 kw
(950 shp) Turbomeca Astazou XIVR turboprop engine.

In 1977, following the discontinuation of the development of the IA 60 advanced jet trainer,
the Fabrica Militar de Aviones (FMA) began the design of a successor for the Beech B45
Mentor, to a specification from the Fuerza Aerea Argentina (FAA), and designated the IA 62.
The specification called for suitability for the basic training role, with full IFR and night flying
ability, and secondary tactical recon and COIN capability. Pressurisation was requested.
The powerplant was not specified, although a turboprop was favoured. In view of their
experience with the Pucara, FMA favoured a version of the Astazou, flat rated to 530 shp,
although the 690 shp Astazou XIV was also proposed.
The structure was to be all-metal, the fuselage being semi-monocoque, and the three section
wing using NACA 2415 and 2409 sections. A retractable tricycle undercarriage was to have
been fitted. The crew would have been accommodated in tandem.
For the tactical recon and COIN roles, the IA 62 would have been flown as a single-seater,
with a 7.62mm machine gun in each wing, and various stores on a single hardpoint below
each wing.
Metal was expected to start being cut in spring or summer 1978, with service entry from
1983-4. However, development was cancelled shortly thereafter, probably as a result of
FMA acquiring a licence for the production of the Beech model 45 (T-34C) Turbo Mentor,
75 of which were assembled by FMA from Beech supplied components, following the
delivery of 15 complete aircraft.

Sources : 'Air International', February 1978, page 102
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/FMA_IA_62
Putnam's 'Beech Aircraft', page 100



cheers,
         Robin.
Where ARE the Daleks when you need them......

Offline Panzerknacker

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Re: Argentinian Unbuilt Projects
« Reply #77 on: December 05, 2010, 12:56:27 pm »
Interesting proposal for an Pucara up-date, in fact the modernization is underway for 30 Pucaras in the fMA but much more simpler than this one.


Offline vajt

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Re: Argentinian Unbuilt Projects
« Reply #78 on: December 14, 2010, 08:28:26 am »
Quote
FMA IA-62 was two seat primary trainer ,powered by one 440 kw
(950 shp) Turbomeca Astazou XIVR turboprop engine.

In 1977, following the discontinuation of the development of the IA 60 advanced jet trainer,
the Fabrica Militar de Aviones (FMA) began the design of a successor for the Beech B45
Mentor, to a specification from the Fuerza Aerea Argentina (FAA), and designated the IA 62.
The specification called for suitability for the basic training role, with full IFR and night flying
ability, and secondary tactical recon and COIN capability. Pressurisation was requested.
The powerplant was not specified, although a turboprop was favoured. In view of their
experience with the Pucara, FMA favoured a version of the Astazou, flat rated to 530 shp,
although the 690 shp Astazou XIV was also proposed.
The structure was to be all-metal, the fuselage being semi-monocoque, and the three section
wing using NACA 2415 and 2409 sections. A retractable tricycle undercarriage was to have
been fitted. The crew would have been accommodated in tandem.
For the tactical recon and COIN roles, the IA 62 would have been flown as a single-seater,
with a 7.62mm machine gun in each wing, and various stores on a single hardpoint below
each wing.
Metal was expected to start being cut in spring or summer 1978, with service entry from
1983-4. However, development was cancelled shortly thereafter, probably as a result of
FMA acquiring a licence for the production of the Beech model 45 (T-34C) Turbo Mentor,
75 of which were assembled by FMA from Beech supplied components, following the
delivery of 15 complete aircraft.

Sources : 'Air International', February 1978, page 102
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/FMA_IA_62
Putnam's 'Beech Aircraft', page 100



cheers,
         Robin.

Didn't Argentina recently approve a new light trainer similar to this concept?

-----JT-----

Offline Apophenia

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Re: Argentinian Unbuilt Projects
« Reply #79 on: December 15, 2010, 04:27:03 pm »
Interesting proposal for an Pucara up-date, in fact the modernization is underway for 30 Pucaras in the fMA but much more simpler than this one.

Looks nice but the mention of "Garret PT-6A" suggest that this artwork is of dubious origin. Honeywell would know how to spell 'Garrett' while competitor P&WC doesn't use a hyphen in PT6A.  ;)

Offline hesham

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Re: Argentinian Unbuilt Projects
« Reply #80 on: December 17, 2010, 03:57:03 am »
Hi,

I think the early FMA IA.62 concept is completely different.

Offline vajt

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Re: Argentinian Unbuilt Projects
« Reply #81 on: December 28, 2010, 09:23:57 am »
The IA-63 avanzado was more like it, still is proposed as the argentine future combat aircraft, I be seen also that project designated as ACL ( avion de combate liviano, Light combat aircraft) .There are a lot of plans right now in the FMA, the sure thing is the fabrication of more AT-63 trainer/light attacks an the modernization of the IA-58Ds since the budget has been already aproved. But could be some space for the ACL, we will have to wait and see .

Wow, that would really be something if the ACL project actually progresses. Update the design a bit to make it more stealthy but it would be a good project to replace the current A-4's and possibly the Mirages.

-----JT-----


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Re: Argentinian Unbuilt Projects
« Reply #82 on: January 24, 2011, 01:38:51 pm »
Does anyone have detailed drawings of the five engine layout that was proposed for the IAe 36 Condor II passenger liner? I am curious to know if the engines were placed in a star pattern in what was essentially an overblown sincle nacelle.

Thanks,

Lester (fishjay)

Offline Jemiba

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Re: Argentinian Unbuilt Projects
« Reply #83 on: January 24, 2011, 09:29:44 pm »
Judging the pictures posted by Dronte (#27 and #28) the engines seem to
have been arranged circularly, with one of them directly at the top. Quite
good visible in the partial cut-away, I think.
It takes a long time, before all mistakes are made ...

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Re: Argentinian Unbuilt Projects
« Reply #84 on: January 25, 2011, 05:00:51 am »
Thanks for the drawing. I imagine the inlet and exhaust ducting would have been a nightmare, not to mention the fuel system piping.

fishjay

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Re: Argentinian Unbuilt Projects
« Reply #85 on: September 19, 2011, 05:44:39 am »
Hi,


was that the Argentina I.Ae.231 aircraft project ?.

Offline lark

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Re: Argentinian Unbuilt Projects
« Reply #86 on: September 19, 2011, 07:13:52 am »
Have to check, but I think it's a Junkers design.

Offline richard

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Re: Argentinian Unbuilt Projects
« Reply #87 on: September 19, 2011, 08:28:09 am »
Have to check, but I think it's a Junkers design.
Yes : Junkers EF 82 (1939/40) , with a Jumo 214 .

Offline Tophe

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Re: Argentinian Unbuilt Projects
« Reply #88 on: September 19, 2011, 09:05:03 am »
 The Search tool did not find the DINFIA A-X2, do you know it? (I have a 3-view drawing in my archives somewhere). It was a COIN project, in the program that led to the Pucara.
Sources: Jane’s All the World Aircraft 1966-67 (3 views, details), Air International 10-77 page 166 (details)
Layout: twin-boom twin-seat twin-turboprop, inspired maybe by the US Bronco, tandem cockpit and 6 passengers at the rear (with rear doors justifying the twin-boom layout)
Engines: 2 x 1,000 hp, STOL ability to take off in 200m
 Span 14.4m  Length about 14.4m
Speed : maximum 480km/h (750km/h in a dive)
Weight: 2.8 t empty, 5.2t maximum

Offline Jemiba

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Re: Argentinian Unbuilt Projects
« Reply #89 on: September 19, 2011, 11:01:05 am »
The photo posted by Hesham can be found here, too :
http://hugojunkers.pytalhost.com/ju_ef082_a1.htm
The project is listed also as EF-65.
It takes a long time, before all mistakes are made ...

Offline hesham

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Re: Argentinian Unbuilt Projects
« Reply #90 on: September 19, 2011, 02:55:23 pm »
Sorry for this Mistake,


but was there a project called I.Ae.231 or not ?.

Offline Hood

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Re: Argentinian Unbuilt Projects
« Reply #91 on: September 25, 2011, 07:36:04 am »
I can clear up this little mystery easily enough. The photo of the supposed I.Ae.231 is in fact the Junkers EF 82 as correctly stated elsewhere. I made the intial post of the fictional design over at the Wesworld naval RPG as the fictional I.Ae.23 dive-bomber. The photo seems to have gotten onto the PPRuNE forum in the silhouette challenge incorectly labelled as the IAe231. I'm not sure where the extra digit comes from but I can assure you all that its fiction not fact. This is twice my alt-history work has gotten onto these pages. Over zealous posting without checking facts is perhaps the root of the cause here compunded by other reputable websites making the same errors but it makes you wonder how many more of these fictional images have gotten onto these boards.

Offline Maveric

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Re: Argentinian Unbuilt Projects
« Reply #92 on: January 22, 2012, 01:26:08 am »
Hi all,


the new FAdeA (FMA) I.A.73... (source: WWW)


Servus Maveric
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Re: Argentinian Unbuilt Projects
« Reply #93 on: September 22, 2012, 02:11:33 pm »
It's a damn shame that there have been so many competent and intelligent engineers in Argentina (both foreign and native), yet continued governmental problems have only served to screw over their economy and in the end have prevented Argentina's latent genius from breaking out into the mainstream of aircraft design and manufacturing.  Imagine Brazil and Argentina being aerospace rivals!

Offline Deino

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Re: Argentinian Unbuilt Projects
« Reply #94 on: January 06, 2013, 01:09:05 am »
Not sure if already posted but very interesting !!

http://www.mincyt.cba.gov.ar/site/fabricamilitar/descarga/fma2008.pdf

Deino
He was my North, my South, my East and West,
My working week and my Sunday rest,
My noon, my midnight, my talk, my song;
I thought that love would last forever; I was wrong.
...
For nothing now can ever come to any good.
-------------------------------------------------
W.H.Auden (1945)

Offline Jemiba

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Re: Argentinian Unbuilt Projects
« Reply #95 on: January 06, 2013, 02:08:26 am »
See #66, but it's really worth a reminder ! To my experience, it takes quite a while to download
it, but nevertheless the link still works.
It takes a long time, before all mistakes are made ...

Offline hesham

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Re: Argentinian Unbuilt Projects
« Reply #96 on: March 14, 2013, 09:52:17 am »

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Re: Argentinian Unbuilt Projects
« Reply #97 on: September 08, 2013, 10:20:56 am »
Hi,


from JP4 magazine,here is a drawing to Pulqui I,but it was different a little from
which actually built.

Offline hesham

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Re: Argentinian Unbuilt Projects
« Reply #98 on: April 02, 2014, 05:59:49 am »
It is a shame that the Argentinean of the forum does not contribute anything, so...

Horten's first fighter proposal to Argentinian Air Force:


Also from Flugzeug Classic 7/2004 & 8/2004.

Offline Skyblazer

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Re: Argentinian Unbuilt Projects
« Reply #99 on: April 02, 2014, 06:36:09 am »

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Re: Argentinian Unbuilt Projects
« Reply #100 on: April 02, 2014, 06:39:53 am »
Sorry my dear Stargazer for this double post,


please remove or delete this post.

Offline Skyblazer

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Re: Argentinian Unbuilt Projects
« Reply #101 on: April 02, 2014, 06:41:15 am »
I'm no longer a moderator, hesham!!!

Offline hesham

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Re: Argentinian Unbuilt Projects
« Reply #102 on: April 02, 2014, 06:44:29 am »
I'm no longer a moderator, hesham!!!


OK,so if my dear Jemiba here,


please delete my post.

Offline XP67_Moonbat

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Re: Argentinian Unbuilt Projects
« Reply #103 on: October 03, 2014, 09:55:17 pm »
Glad you left Hesh's last post. I'm reading Ho-229: Spirit of Thuringia. Great book so far but I know the Horten story doesn't end in Germsny, 1945.

So the Horten stuff on this thread is value to me.

Now I just wish there was a dedicated site or book just about Reimar Horten's Argentina projects.
In God we trust, all others we monitor. :-p

Offline Motocar

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Re: Argentinian Unbuilt Projects
« Reply #104 on: October 16, 2014, 06:15:43 am »
Cutaway DINFIA then FMA IA-52 light transport aircraft designed in Argentina, it was to be powered by two turbo-prop engines Turbomeca Astazou, mounted in the same light attack aircraft IA-58 "Pucara" fairly simple design with straight wings and braced supported by a small embryonic wings which in turn serve to support the train-type landing fixed tricycle, its fuselage mono-coke type with a short, stubby nose square section designed to transport cargo via a ramp then swing as seen in the CASA C-212, the pilot cabin accessed through a side door type car, and modified by author WEAL Motocar to recreate this forgotten project, Link:
 http://www.zona-militar.com/foros/threads/cutaways-cortes-esquem%C3%A1ticos-de-aviones.24700/page-107


.
P. D. Sorry for my poor English

Offline hesham

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Re: Argentinian Unbuilt Projects
« Reply #105 on: November 22, 2014, 04:26:16 am »
From Jane's All the World's Aircraft 1984-1985,


here is the FMA ATL,it was twin engined high-wing multi-purpose light transport
aircraft project,powered by two 1250 hp turboprops.

Offline fightingirish

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Re: Argentinian Unbuilt Projects
« Reply #106 on: November 27, 2015, 09:46:42 am »
Quote
FAdeA tests first IA-58H Pucara with new engines
The first FAdeA IA-58H Pucara light strike aircraft equipped with new Pratt & Whitney Canada PT-6A-62 engines, after several delays, took its maiden flight on 24 November.

The aircraft selected (tail number AX-561) in June received a re-modelled set of wings from Israel Aerospace Industries (IAI) to accommodate the replacement engines, and then went through several ground tests in preparation for the flight.

FAdeA initiated the Pucara's engine upgrade process in 2011, selecting the ubiquitous PT-6A-62 to replace the discontinued Turbomeca Astazou XVIG, which was proving difficult to maintain.

The project plans to upgrade as many as 20 frames from Argentine Air Force stocks, but currently only one set of re-modeled wings has been received from IAI and it is unclear if more will be forthcoming in the near term.
Source: http://www.janes.com/article/56248/fadea-tests-first-ia-58h-pucara-with-new-engines
Slán,
fightingirish

Slán ist an Irish Gaelic word for Goodbye.  :)

Avatar:
McDonnell Douglas Model 225 painting by "The Artist" Michael Burke (Tavush) 2018, found at deviantart.com and at Secret Projects Forum » Research Topics » User Artwork » McDonnell Douglas Model 225 Painting

Offline hesham

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Re: Argentinian Unbuilt Projects
« Reply #107 on: December 24, 2015, 07:55:43 am »
Hi,

here is the FMA I.Ae.34 & I.Ae.41 drawings.

http://www.elgrancapitan.org/foro/viewtopic.php?f=61&t=21734

Offline blackkite

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Re: Argentinian Unbuilt Projects
« Reply #108 on: December 26, 2015, 05:02:01 am »
Wow thanks a lot!! Amazing. :o

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Re: Argentinian Unbuilt Projects
« Reply #109 on: July 28, 2016, 06:21:37 am »

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Re: Argentinian Unbuilt Projects
« Reply #110 on: July 28, 2016, 06:22:46 am »
And;

Offline Apophenia

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Re: Argentinian Unbuilt Projects
« Reply #111 on: July 28, 2016, 04:17:38 pm »
Source: La industria aeronáutica nacional, los proyectos y desarrollos
 -- http://www.eam.iua.edu.ar/rumbos/Revista-37/RevistaRumbos37-HistAeronautica.htm

Foto-036.jpg = IAe-39, short-haul airliner derived from IAe-35 Huanquero

Foto-039.jpg = IAe-43 Pulqui III

Foto-040.jpg = IAe-44 DL II advanced trainer

Foto-044.jpg = IAe-47 1957 airliner, Dart variant
 - IAe-47: 20 pax airliner, 2 x R-R Dart RDa.8
 - IAe-47: 40 pax airliner, 4 x P&W radials
 - IAe-47: 44-46 pax airliner, 2 x Bristol Orpheus
 - IAe-47: 42 pax airliner, 2 x R-R turboprop (Dart?)

Foto-058.jpg = FMA IA-62 B-45 Mentor replacement
 - FMA IA-62: 1 x Turbomeca Astazou XIV F

Foto-060.jpg = IA-67 Córdoba, IA-50/DC-3 repl.
 - IA-67: Volpar design based on IA-66 parts

Foto-061.jpg = IA-67 Córdoba

Foto-062.jpg = IA-68 ATL (Avión Transporte Liviano)
 - IA-68: 23-30 pax transport, 1,250 shp turboprops

Foto-063.jpg = IA-68 ATL (different engine type?)

Offline hesham

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Re: Argentinian Unbuilt Projects
« Reply #112 on: July 28, 2016, 04:29:17 pm »
Thank you my dear Apophenia.

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Re: Argentinian Unbuilt Projects
« Reply #113 on: July 30, 2016, 03:39:46 pm »
Foto-039.jpg = IAe-43 Pulqui III looks very like its descendent, the HF-24 Marut that Kurt Tank developed at HAL after leaving Argentina for India.

Offline hesham

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Re: Argentinian Unbuilt Projects
« Reply #114 on: July 30, 2016, 04:28:04 pm »
That's right Iverson.

Offline Hood

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Re: Argentinian Unbuilt Projects
« Reply #115 on: July 31, 2016, 02:22:59 am »
I've never read very much on the Pulqui III, but I've always wondered if the descriptions of Marut ever really gave credit to the design work done on Pulqui III. Did Kurt Tank essentially offer the Indians a completed design?

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Re: Argentinian Unbuilt Projects
« Reply #116 on: July 31, 2016, 05:08:44 am »

Offline Apophenia

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Re: Argentinian Unbuilt Projects
« Reply #117 on: August 01, 2016, 12:43:46 pm »
FAdeA photo of prototype IA-58H Pucara conversion with PT6A-62s.

Offline hesham

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Re: Argentinian Unbuilt Projects
« Reply #118 on: November 26, 2016, 07:56:17 am »
The Condor.

Offline hesham

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Re: Argentinian Unbuilt Projects
« Reply #119 on: December 14, 2016, 04:50:18 am »
Hi,

does anyone hear about Sociedad Anonima Sfreddo & Paolini Type-I & Type-II ?,

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Offline Maveric

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Re: Argentinian Unbuilt Projects
« Reply #121 on: December 15, 2016, 02:31:03 pm »
pic one: the aircraft is named I.A.47.
I see you on the dark side of the moon.

Offline Jemiba

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Re: Argentinian Unbuilt Projects
« Reply #122 on: December 16, 2016, 12:00:11 am »
Einspruch, Euer Ehren !   ;)   (Your Honour !)
It's quite probably the I.A. 51, I think, which is attacking a ship looking like a clinched  County class DDG here.
See the "Fábrica Militar de Aviones - Cronica y Testimonia" ( https://de.scribd.com/document/104898611/Fabrica-militar-de-aviones-cronicas-y-testimonios or http://es.slideshare.net/ramoncopa/fabrica-militardeavionescronicasytestimonios-por-angel-cesar-arreguez ,
we already had it here, but with a different link, AFAIK)
And according to that source, the second type is the I.A.55 ...
It takes a long time, before all mistakes are made ...

Offline Maveric

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Re: Argentinian Unbuilt Projects
« Reply #123 on: December 16, 2016, 10:44:29 am »
Ok, I see only the marks on the planes... ;)
I see you on the dark side of the moon.

Offline dan_inbox

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Re: Argentinian Unbuilt Projects
« Reply #124 on: December 17, 2016, 12:26:27 am »
IMO, this plane marked IA-47 looks more like fanboi art than anything credible.
Just like the whole page it is on.


Scouring through the whole net and clinging to every little scrape has some value, and Hesham does a terrific contribution of it.
But proper filtering and verifying is essential, lest dubious stuff will creep in.
This being said, I'm certainly not complaining. So far it is impressive how well this forum is doing in this respect. Signal to noise ratio is very high.

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Re: Argentinian Unbuilt Projects
« Reply #125 on: December 17, 2016, 03:39:32 am »
IMO, this plane marked IA-47 looks more like fanboi art than anything credible.

Looking at that drawing, I thought the same at first, but actually it fits very well the 3-view
of the I.A. 51 in the mentioned source:
It takes a long time, before all mistakes are made ...

Offline dan_inbox

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Re: Argentinian Unbuilt Projects
« Reply #126 on: December 17, 2016, 12:37:20 pm »
Looking at that drawing, I thought the same at first, but actually it fits very well the 3-view of the I.A. 51 in the mentioned source:
Well that's the point: it looks like an drawing rendering some theoretical "project", but with the wrong designation number. Amateur's work.
Enthusiastic and nationalistic amateur (fanboi), yes. But for our purposes, amateurish and not reliable enough.


Offline dan_inbox

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Re: Argentinian Unbuilt Projects
« Reply #127 on: December 18, 2016, 12:51:48 am »
We are duplicating info already on the site, at http://www.secretprojects.co.uk/forum/index.php/topic,18955.msg194258.html#msg232617
Maybe a moderator could consolidate this ?

Done, those Horten projects were merged with the thread mentioned above. Thanks for the clue !
« Last Edit: December 18, 2016, 01:43:17 am by Jemiba »

Offline dan_inbox

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Re: Argentinian Unbuilt Projects
« Reply #128 on: December 18, 2016, 11:07:39 am »
Thanks to you, Jens, for the endless patient shepherding of our disorganized posts   :)

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Re: Argentinian Unbuilt Projects
« Reply #129 on: February 27, 2017, 03:53:24 am »
From the book; The Pucara Story.

Offline hesham

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Re: Argentinian Unbuilt Projects
« Reply #130 on: March 27, 2017, 06:41:52 am »
The IA-59.

Offline hesham

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Re: Argentinian Unbuilt Projects
« Reply #131 on: March 28, 2017, 06:10:48 am »
From the book; Las Alas de Peron

Offline hesham

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Re: Argentinian Unbuilt Projects
« Reply #132 on: March 28, 2017, 06:11:59 am »
And;

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« Last Edit: July 12, 2017, 06:36:13 am by hesham »

Offline Hood

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Re: Argentinian Unbuilt Projects
« Reply #134 on: October 28, 2017, 02:57:04 am »
FMA proposed a naval variant of the IA.63 Pampa during the late 1980s/early 1990 capable of landing and take-offs aboard the 25 de Mayo. The Argentine Navy had a requirement for a 12 aircraft. It was proposed to use a higher thrust AlliedSignal TFE731 turbofan but it was finally decided to use the standard 3,500lbf TFE731-2N. No designation was known and the project was dropped.

Source: Brassey's World Aircraft & Systems Directory, 1996-97.

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Re: Argentinian Unbuilt Projects
« Reply #135 on: October 28, 2017, 08:06:32 am »
Nice Info my dear Hood.

Offline blockhaj

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Re: Argentinian Unbuilt Projects
« Reply #136 on: November 01, 2017, 05:36:07 pm »

Might as well post this one
-                                 |¯¯¯n¯¯¯|
-                      ______o__(_)__o_______
-                                 |      |      |   
-                                 °      °      °
-                                Saab J-21R

Offline hesham

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Re: Argentinian Unbuilt Projects
« Reply #137 on: November 02, 2017, 05:55:39 am »
Nice drawing dear Blockhaj.

Offline blockhaj

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Re: Argentinian Unbuilt Projects
« Reply #138 on: November 02, 2017, 10:39:56 am »
I did it a while ago but im already wanting to change some things after futher research. It would have had a huge bomb bay for 2000 kg of bombs and the gunner would probably have been a 11.35 mm madsen heavy mg instead of a small calibre one. It might even have had 6 cannons like the Nancu.
-                                 |¯¯¯n¯¯¯|
-                      ______o__(_)__o_______
-                                 |      |      |   
-                                 °      °      °
-                                Saab J-21R

Offline hesham

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Re: Argentinian Unbuilt Projects
« Reply #139 on: September 02, 2018, 08:29:08 am »
From le Fana 443.

Offline hesham

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Re: Argentinian Unbuilt Projects
« Reply #140 on: September 06, 2018, 05:14:00 am »
From Aero Journal 43.

Offline Petrus

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Re: Argentinian Unbuilt Projects - IA-27a Pulqui II
« Reply #141 on: March 07, 2019, 11:45:03 am »
In the International Air Power Review Vol. 25 there is an article on Argentinian jet projects. Amongst others it briefly mentions what was designated IAe-27a Pulqui II and what was an intermediate phase of development between IAe-27 Pulqui I by Dewoitine and IAe-33 Pulqui II by Tank. Interestingly IAe-27a was designed by Argentinian (or Italian) engineers who had previously worked with Dewoitine on IAe-27.

Here you have cutouts from the IAPR article containing a photo of IAe-27a's modell as well as what the article says on the project and a table with specifications of all members of the Pulqui family, incl. the IAe-27a.

Regards,
Piotr
« Last Edit: March 07, 2019, 11:48:29 am by Petrus »

Offline kitnut617

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Re: Argentinian Unbuilt Projects
« Reply #142 on: March 07, 2019, 12:01:56 pm »
If I'm not building models, I'm riding my dirtbike

Offline Petrus

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Re: Argentinian Unbuilt Projects
« Reply #143 on: March 07, 2019, 12:06:07 pm »
If that is a Pulqui II, what are these

https://www.secretprojects.co.uk/forum/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=211.0;attach=576918

What the IAPR article says may be understood that original Pulqui II was IAe-27a. After Kurt Tank took over the design the Pulqui II designation was retained but the numerical one was changed from '27a' to '33'.

So apparently there were two Pulqui IIs: IAe-27a and IAe-33.

Piotr

Offline dan_inbox

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Re: Argentinian Unbuilt Projects
« Reply #144 on: March 08, 2019, 12:27:06 am »
Very interesting. Thanks, Petrus.

Offline hesham

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Re: Argentinian Unbuilt Projects
« Reply #145 on: March 08, 2019, 04:37:13 am »
Amazing find my dear Petrus.

Offline Petrus

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Re: Argentinian Unbuilt Projects
« Reply #146 on: March 12, 2019, 06:14:25 am »
Here yet another photos (and a little drawing) of the IAe-27a model found somewhere on the Internet.

Piotr
« Last Edit: March 12, 2019, 07:42:03 am by Petrus »