WW1 Aircraft Weapons (General)

[World B4]

From Germany:
The Fokker Liemberger, a precursor to the modern minigun
https://guns.fandom.com/wiki/Fokker-Leimberger
The Gast Gun, cylindrical drum mag is the 8mm mauser version, curved box mag is the 13.2mm TuF version
https://forum.axishistory.com/viewtopic.php?t=202027https://guns.fandom.com/wiki/Gast_gun
19mm Szakats SZB and SZC (I found this particularly interesting)
http://www.airwar.ru/weapon/guns/sza.html
2cm Erhardt
http://www.airwar.ru/weapon/guns/ehrhardt.html
Siemens Torpedo Glider
http://warnepieces.blogspot.com/2011/12/guided-missiles-world-war-one-style.html
From Russia:
Iron Felix shows on this thread https://www.secretprojects.co.uk/th...prototypes-and-projects-during-pre-ww1.25576/ 2 very interesting projects, a 6 barreled machine gun and 50.8mm rockets. Very cool, Felix!

From America:
The Walden Guided Rocket
https://wonderfulengineering.com/yo...t-drones-ever-were-used-in-wwi-to-drop-bombs/
The Davis Gun
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Davis_gun
The Winchester Burton Machine Rifle, an early assault rifle for destroying baloons
https://www.historicalfirearms.info/post/139141156104/the-winchester-burton-machine-rifle-the
I know Austria-Hungary had several 25mm prototypes but I don't know anything about them

 

[Avimimus]

This might be of interest:
http://quarryhs.co.uk/cannon_pioneers.htm
And this:
https://www.ibiblio.org/hyperwar/USN/ref/MG/I/MG-5.html
The Lanchester mortar and a similar weapon by Coppens were proposed early in the war. These would be single shot (probably muzzle loaded?) weapons... essentially oversized shotguns (75mm in the Lanchester case) for use at close range .

The cannon equipped Ilya Mouromets is also particularly... er... interesting in its setup (with a gunner standing outside on a platform in front of the airplane and being hand fed ammunition).

The Oeffag G was equipped with something of a carronade for attacking enemy shipping during the war... (see attached).

 

[World B4]

Something I forgot, a twin barelled Austro-Hungarian machine gun for aircraft, the war ended before it could be combat tested
Gebauer Machine Gun 1918
https://guns.fandom.com/wiki/Gebauer_machine_cannon

 

[Tony Williams]

Something I forgot, a twin barelled Austro-Hungarian machine gun for aircraft, the war ended before it could be combat tested
Gebauer Machine Gun 1918

The Gebauer did see action - in WW2. Both 8mm and 12.7 mm versions were made. They were unique among service weapons in that the firing cycle was driven by the plane's engine, so the gun was automatically synchronised - if the engine revs changed, so did the rate of fire.

 

[World B4]

I was just referring to the 1918 model

 

[World B4]

This might be of interest:
http://quarryhs.co.uk/cannon_pioneers.htm
And this:
https://www.ibiblio.org/hyperwar/USN/ref/MG/I/MG-5.html
The Lanchester mortar and a similar weapon by Coppens were proposed early in the war. These would be single shot (probably muzzle loaded?) weapons... essentially oversized shotguns (75mm in the Lanchester case) for use at close range .

The cannon equipped Ilya Mouromets is also particularly... er... interesting in its setup (with a gunner standing outside on a platform in front of the airplane and being hand fed ammunition).

The Oeffag G was equipped with something of a carronade for attacking enemy shipping during the war... (see attached).

The gun on the Oeffag G was the 66 mm Skoda gun 7 cm L/18 C95

https://bmashine.tumblr.com%2Fpost%2F178727699534

According to The Cannon Pioneers, it was unsuccessfully combat tested against Italian ships

 

[World B4]

On this page, Iron Felix details a 3 barreled machine gun project from WW1 Russian Empire that fires the 7.62x38mm Nagant revolver round. It was planned for use by infantry, on vehicles, and on aircraft
https://www.secretprojects.co.uk/threads/firearms-secret-projects.3265/page-3

 

[Bottleship]

Shishmarev 37 mm gun (based on 37 mm Hotchkiss) on Grigorovich M-9. Also, projected use this gun on Lebedev Lebed-Grand.


Also, worked at 75 and 76.2 mm cannons, but, I haven't data about this constructions. Grigorovich MK-1 builted for unknown 76.2 mm gun. I think, 76.2 mm cannon was an analog of Shishmarev gun, but, based on 3-inch coastal or anti-assault gun, it's a cartridge 76.2x385R, with 4 kg shells, coastal gun - 385 mps (full charge), anti-assault - 285 mps (used a reduced charge), it's more realistic than barrel of 3-inch field M1902 gun on light airplane.
Suggested a use of Japanese 47 mm short-barrel cannons, but, it was a very massive for aircrafts. Also, worked at unknown 50 mm gun for "Ilya Murometz".
Naval general staff in the middle 1915 considered it necessary, for naval aircrafts, projection of 37 mm automatic or semi-automatic gun, with reduced rollback lenght and reduced recoil, with large elevation and declination angles. But, I haven't data about works at this guns.
Unknown sitizen Golubev in 1915 suggested a "full-auto belt-fed cannon, by type of machine gun, in needed caliber, with 300-600 rpm, and, best thing, with shrapnel rounds". But, I haven't data about details of this gun - I think, it's a only concept.
Also, I haven't data about works in Russia in small-caliber automatic cannons and heavy machine guns (bigger than 7.62 mm and smaller than 47 mm), and, it's a very weird. In Russia in XIX century created, at least, two powerful cartridges, in .60 and .80 caliber - analogs of British, American and Chinese .60, .65, .75, .80 cartridges - but, I don't know about Russian analogs of .500/600 Godsal, 13.25x97, 19x114R, 20x70 Becker and other WW1 powerful cartridges. In 1915 suggested a use of .80 caliber rampart rifle for shoot of a armoured vehichles, but, it's not used, and, it was a old smoke powder cartridge from 1870th.
Engineer Ufimstev between 1914 and 1917 suggested a "machine gun in motor shaft".
Engineer Gelvih/Gelvikh at 1915-1917 created 47 and 76.2 mm recoiless cannons, based on Davis guns.
Russian experimental "automatic" AA cannons, 1911-1912, 2.5 inch (maybe, 37 mm "automatic" cannon was a small variant of this guns):

 

[Tony Williams]

Shishmarev 37 mm gun (based on 37 mm Hotchkiss) on Grigorovich M-9. Also, projected use this gun on Lebeded Lebed-Grand.

I have the same pictures in which the gun is identified as the Obukhov, named after the steelworks near St Petersburg where the gun was made. Is this just an alternative name for it?

 

[Bottleship]

I have the same pictures in which the gun is identified as the Obukhov, named after the steelworks near St Petersburg where the gun was made. Is this just an alternative name for it?

I think, yes. Also named a "Russian aircraft Hotchkiss", "fast-shooting 37 mm gun", etc.

 

[Bottleship]

18 may 1917, suggestion of light single-shot gun for airplanes:

(caseless cartridge?)

 

[hesham]

From ; Siemens-Schuckert Aircraft of WWI

 

[Okhotnik]

I have the same pictures in which the gun is identified as the Obukhov, named after the steelworks near St Petersburg where the gun was made. Is this just an alternative name for it?

I think, yes. Also named a "Russian aircraft Hotchkiss", "fast-shooting 37 mm gun", etc.

Not. Do you want details to know from Russia?

 

[Bottleship]

Not. Do you want details to know from Russia?

Used a barrel from a 37 mm Russian naval Hotchkiss gun. No?

 

[Okhotnik]

Not. Do you want details to know from Russia?

Used a barrel from a 37 mm Russian naval Hotchkiss gun. No?

The picture of a Russian 37-mm aviation gun mounted on board a Russian flying boat, model M-9, comes from a family archives and was for the first time published by me with my publications about 25 years ago. I am not sure its reproduction can be regarded as completely legal within this site; however, from my side, I have nothing against. I have other photographs of this gun and some factory drawings. All are published in my recent books, but these are in Russian and thus you can hardly read these as it would be necessary either to study the Russian language or use an electronic translator that is not easy for many persons. So, as soon as you want it, I am ready give you a list of the publications, or only submit you several words on gun`s names

 

[fortrena]

Some info on an American air launched radio-controlled glide bomb, and the career of its inventor, can be found in a chatty text located at https://ingeniumcanada.org/channel/...-unusual-kind-or-how-did-clara-the-cow-meet-a

 

[Bottleship]

The picture of a Russian 37-mm aviation gun mounted on board a Russian flying boat, model M-9, comes from a family archives and was for the first time published by me with my publications about 25 years ago

I found this here:
https://www.quarryhs.co.uk/cannon_pioneers.htmI would be very interested to know information about many Russian Imperial weapons, and not only aviation ones. I have been looking for information about:
- Fast machine guns (I found Panenkov 6-barrel gun)
- Automatic cannons (I found mention of 25.4, 47, 76, 95 mm Russian Maxim guns, 87 mm Valitskiy gun, 57 mm Rosenberg gun, but, I haven't accuracy data about this guns - appearance, size, ballistics, rate of fire, type of automation, etc.; 25.4 mm Maxim projected in 1917, 87 mm Valitskiy builted in 1885)
- Magazine shotguns (pump-action, revolving, semi-auto, full-auto; I found mention of two projects of 1930s, but, not a 1890-1910s, this is damn weird - the Russians had a lot of automatic rifles, at least one lever-action rifle, but not a single magazine shotgun apart from the bolt-action Frolov gun. At the same time, the Russians had many developments in the field of hunting weapons - magnum shotgun cartridge, "anti-bear" bullets, etc.; in 1915, the TOZ raised the issue of a "buck gun" for the military, but the chief said, "we are already overworked without this." But later, in 1916, the workload of TOZ engineers decreased.)
- Semi-auto and full-auto pistols and SMGs, and pistol cartridges (I only know fragmentary data about Izhevsk 1911 3-line pistol, Frolov 1912 SMG, Molokov 1915 SMG, I found only information about the Prilutskiy 1914 pistol; it is strange that there is not a single mention of the development of pistol cartridges in Russia until the 1940s, when the 9x18 was developed, except for the 7.62x25)
I've heard a lot of interesting rumors. "Rimmless intermediate cartridge, based on 7.62x38R Nagant", "Degtyarev SMG in 1913, planned to tests in 1918", "14.5x114 in WW1 period", etc., but, I can not say anything about their reliability.
If you have information on at least one of these topics, I will be very grateful for your help. Do not be afraid that I will use this for profit, I am not a historian or a journalist.
It looks really weird. “We have a very powerful industry, where there are many engineers, and we have as many students as Britain, France and Germany combined, that is, we graduate a lot of engineers every year. We were able to come up with a pocket radio phone, fax, Skype, a lot of automatic rifles, heavy artillery, large superbattleships, and we also invented an adiabatic ICE and a generator of "free electricity" from the weight of trains, but we did not come up with a single pistol cartridge or a single fast-shooting shotgun."
Now images on gwar.mil.ru have ceased to be displayed. I cannot see them. It's good that I copied a lot from there before.

 

[Okhotnik]

The picture of a Russian 37-mm aviation gun mounted on board a Russian flying boat, model M-9, comes from a family archives and was for the first time published by me with my publications about 25 years ago

I found this here:
https://www.quarryhs.co.uk/cannon_pioneers.htmI would be very interested to know information about many Russian Imperial weapons, and not only aviation ones. I have been looking for information about:
- Fast machine guns (I found Panenkov 6-barrel gun)
- Automatic cannons (I found mention of 25.4, 47, 76, 95 mm Russian Maxim guns, 87 mm Valitskiy gun, 57 mm Rosenberg gun, but, I haven't accuracy data about this guns - appearance, size, ballistics, rate of fire, type of automation, etc.; 25.4 mm Maxim projected in 1917, 87 mm Valitskiy builted in 1885)
- Magazine shotguns (pump-action, revolving, semi-auto, full-auto; I found mention of two projects of 1930s, but, not a 1890-1910s, this is damn weird - the Russians had a lot of automatic rifles, at least one lever-action rifle, but not a single magazine shotgun apart from the bolt-action Frolov gun. At the same time, the Russians had many developments in the field of hunting weapons - magnum shotgun cartridge, "anti-bear" bullets, etc.; in 1915, the TOZ raised the issue of a "buck gun" for the military, but the chief said, "we are already overworked without this." But later, in 1916, the workload of TOZ engineers decreased.)
- Semi-auto and full-auto pistols and SMGs, and pistol cartridges (I only know fragmentary data about Izhevsk 1911 3-line pistol, Frolov 1912 SMG, Molokov 1915 SMG, I found only information about the Prilutskiy 1914 pistol; it is strange that there is not a single mention of the development of pistol cartridges in Russia until the 1940s, when the 9x18 was developed, except for the 7.62x25)
I've heard a lot of interesting rumors. "Rimmless intermediate cartridge, based on 7.62x38R Nagant", "Degtyarev SMG in 1913, planned to tests in 1918", "14.5x114 in WW1 period", etc., but, I can not say anything about their reliability.
If you have information on at least one of these topics, I will be very grateful for your help. Do not be afraid that I will use this for profit, I am not a historian or a journalist.
It looks really weird. “We have a very powerful industry, where there are many engineers, and we have as many students as Britain, France and Germany combined, that is, we graduate a lot of engineers every year. We were able to come up with a pocket radio phone, fax, Skype, a lot of automatic rifles, heavy artillery, large superbattleships, and we also invented an adiabatic ICE and a generator of "free electricity" from the weight of trains, but we did not come up with a single pistol cartridge or a single fast-shooting shotgun."
Now images on gwar.mil.ru have ceased to be displayed. I cannot see them. It's good that I copied a lot from there before.

To my regret, I am only an expert on Russian naval aviation and ballooning of the pre-1918 epoch. So, alas, I know nothing about the guns you mention. Moreover, I have never heard about these, sorry. And I can now remember nobody of people who could be maybe helpful to you. That is a pity... As to the aviation gun, it was most likely designed by engineer Agamol`yantz (Agamoljantz in German) who worked for the Obukhovskiy (aka Obukhov`s in the West) Works. Initially it was called a gun with a 37-mm training barrel for a hydroaeroplane; later the name was shorthened up to a 37-mm aviation short-barrel gun and/or a 37-mm aviation short-barrel gun of the Obukhovskiy Works, etc. First (known) factory drawings were prepared in March 1916, and that time the gun had a large cowling that covered the recoil spring, the barrel was much shorter than on the photograph, and there were other important differences. It can be suggested the "training barrel" did come from the Hotchkiss gun, but it is uncertain according to archival records. Later in 1916 the design was obviously re-worked to finally obtain the gun you see on the photograph. This final model was sent into a series production that resulted in 50 guns ordered from the Obukhovskiy Works and 50 gun-carriages from the Metallicheskiy (Metal) Works (these factories worked in Petrograd, then Leningrad, now Saint-Petersburg). It can be suggested the gun-carriage was designed by one Alekseev (Alexeev, or Alexeew), or maybe this man submitted another model. Navy`s Lt. Mikhailov (Michailow in German) developped an automatic loader for the gun. In August 1917 a corresponding order was given to the Mekhanicheskiy (Mechanics) Works of A. Reikhel (presumably Reihel in German), also in Petrograd. Produced guns were distributed between naval aviation units of the Baltic and Black Seas and some guns were delivered indeed, surely to some Baltic units, but only to be never used operationally. Trials were planned in late October 1917, thus not long before the end of hostilities, and I suggest nothing was carried out finally. Initially, in 1915--1916, there were plans to use a Davis recoiless gun, Hotchkiss 37-mm and 47-mm French-manufactured guns (37-mm guns were of two models which differed by the length of barrels, according to the data on shell`s velocity), a Japanese 47-mm short-barrel gun. Finally, ten guns of 47 mm were bought from France in late November 1916. These were shipped to Russia in mid-May 1917, but never reached naval aviators. It is uncertain if these 47-mm guns were of the Hotchkiss family

 

[Bottleship]

http://www.airforce.ru/history/romanov/chapter2/page2.htmAnti-ship "air bomb with muzzle velocity", constructed by Timofeev in 1916 and tested in 1917.

 

[SirCoutin]

 

[T. A. Gardner]

The Marlin Gun version of the Colt M1895 adapted for aircraft use...

And if you were wondering, the original Colt M1895 was mounted on an elephant too...