What might the aircraft carriers of the future look like ?

Do aircraft carriers still have their place in the future ?

  • Yes

  • No

  • Yes, but in a different way.


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Most wargames in the Cold War (notably those published by the Naval War College) saw most U S carriers either sunk or severely damaged.
In the N Atlantic that meant F14s, F18s, A6s and S3s moving to shore bases notably in the UK.
I imagine the same would happen to US air groups in a war with China (assuming they get away before the missiles hit).
 
Most wargames in the Cold War (notably those published by the Naval War College) saw most U S carriers either sunk or severely damaged.
In the N Atlantic that meant F14s, F18s, A6s and S3s moving to shore bases notably in the UK.
I imagine the same would happen to US air groups in a war with China (assuming they get away before the missiles hit).
Fewer places for them to go in the Pacific. Philippines, Okinawa, Guam, Japan, Midway(?), Hawaii...
 
Most wargames in the Cold War (notably those published by the Naval War College) saw most U S carriers either sunk or severely damaged.
And yet more countries are building carriers (or planning to) than ever, including China.
When the Japanese attacked Pearl Harbour, the wargames they had made beforehand predicted the loss of 3 of their aircraft carriers. 0 were actually lost.
I think the results of these wargames are very relative.
 
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When the Japanese attacked Pearl Harbour, the wargames they had made beforehand predicted the loss of 3 aircraft carriers. 0 were actually lost.
I think the results of these wargames are very relative.
No navy's exercises in the 1930s proved to provide a particularly accurate picture of what would happen when war came. All depended on the "rules" being played by.
 
I don't really think it's useful to discuss whether plane "a" is better than "b", but rather whether the strategy of the set of "a" is better or worse than "b". This is indeed productive, as the answers have already been given whenever the pragmatism of reality knocking on our door presents itself. At the end of WWII, the USA had more than 70 aircraft carriers of different categories....it is the same as discussing whether the USA should, at the time, have built only Essex Class units, regardless of urgency, time, resources and missions. If this was really necessary, why would today be any different? And if the most powerful country with the best doctrines will be charged on this point, why wouldn't smaller countries be the same? The question is how many navy planes will be flying attacking or defending their squadrons after 15 days of high-level attrition fighting? At this point, it is much safer if they can be diluted on several ships... as this way, the loss of some of them would still guarantee a high operational percentage of the remainder....
Had a weird thought, and looking at wiki it seems like it'd work.

Nuclear Midways, using a single A1B reactor like the Ford class. From wiki:
It is estimated that the thermal power output of each A1B will be around 700 MWth, some 25% more than provided by the A4W.[4] Improved efficiency in the total plant is expected to provide improved output to both propulsion and electrical systems. Using A4W data[5] with a 25% increase in thermal power, the A1B reactors likely produce enough steam to generate 125 megawatts (168,000 hp) of electricity, plus 350,000 shaft horsepower (260 MW) from just one reactor to power the four propeller shafts.[6]
Emphasis mine.

Midways had about 212,000hp at the shafts, so if that quote is correct a single A1B would be well more than enough to power a nuclear Midway. Possibly for more speed, or add some more SSTGs and run less steam through the propulsion turbines to have more electrical power available. Because I'm fairly sure that whatever size carrier you have, the combat systems are all going to suck up about the same amount of power.

Whether to do that or not is a different discussion, as nuclear power is expensive and has a lot of long-lead construction items, while a pile of WR21s or MT30s on generators for IEP is a lot simpler. Which makes the ships faster to construct as gas turbine IEPs.
 
Most wargames in the Cold War (notably those published by the Naval War College) saw most U S carriers either sunk or severely damaged.
In the N Atlantic that meant F14s, F18s, A6s and S3s moving to shore bases notably in the UK.
I imagine the same would happen to US air groups in a war with China (assuming they get away before the missiles hit).

It would be significantly more dangerous in the Pacific, as missiles are now longer ranged and easier to target, while carriers have less capable air wings than they did 40 years ago. The most important aspect for carrier combat, whether against land bases or other carriers, is strike radius. USN carriers barely get like 500 nmi now,with Super Hornets carrying an appreciable war load, but they used to have closer to 900 nmi.

The most likely outcome is that the carriers stand back in the deep ocean, minimally contributes to the fight, and the battlegroups sling Tomahawks at targets identified by satellite, submarine, or stealth bomber. The forward deployed battlegroups will probably be killed or crippled (same thing) in the initial stages though. I think that's just kind of inevitable without moving the carriers further back.

If the Navy has to assault the SCS, to retake Taiwan or something, it will probably be impossible in any practical sense without nukes. Knocking out the anti-ship missile assets, naval combat forces, and destroying the PLAN's ability to sortie submarines would be the most important thing prior to an amphibious landing, and aside from simply flattening ports with tactical nukes, there's simply not an easy way to do this.

This applies to the Chinese a bit, but they have less of a problem, because the US and its allies have fewer and smaller bases.

The artist impression in #70 leaves a lot to be desired. First off, the top deck is too symmetrical, and without the angled deck is an accident in the making as a jet comes in and has to magically land between rows of parked vehicles. I don't think you abandon the angled deck.

Angled flight decks are useless if you're designing a stealth carrier to accompany a Zumwalt lol.

The hangar is at the level of the two waist catapults, so they will be less affected by waves than bow cats, and the aircraft land on the upper hangar. They are lowed into the hangar and armed, and then moved out to the catapults. The catapults have little louvres or palisades that erect along the side to reduce the radar reflection from the open hangar doors as aircraft transit from the hangar-bomb farm to the catapult area, and from the aircraft and jet blast deflector themselves.

There is literally nothing on the deck when the ship is in combat. It would compromise the RCS reduction measures, obviously.

Multi-hulls are much dumber than the stealth carrier because no one has built a sizeable multihull (>2,000 tons) without hull cracking.
 
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More because they couldn't do literally anything other than a Nimitz hull. I'm not even sure if the starboard list was corrected.

The original CVNX ECBL design, although a conventional monohull, was slightly larger than a Nimitz.

Midway isn't quite right, but CVF isn't too far off anyway, perhaps Kitty Hawk is a better comparison point. Give it 20 to 40 A-12-type attack aircraft with combat radii in the 1,000-1,500 nmi range and it might be able to do something useful.

Something like this perhaps, but with conventional propeller shafts in lieu of Azipods?

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Nimitzes being sized for Vietnam type conventional munition expenditure, in an era where even the most basic aviation bomb is a satellite guided weapon, is a bit silly. Ordnance storage can probably be reduced by nearly an order of magnitude without significantly reducing the ability of the carrier to fight for the initial 48-72 hours, provided there's a commensurate reduction in air wing size. The latter has already occurred with the Super Hornet and Lightning air wings.

CVF does a lot of things right in this regard. The Nimitz only really makes sense if you have a massive air wing (90+ aircraft), emphasize alpha strikes, and hit targets with CCIP and sticks of iron bombs. Otherwise, it's an inefficient design.

The large magazine volume can be devoted to larger stand-off weapons and increased protection. Norman Friedman's US Aircraft Carriers discusses various protective features included in CVV's design, intended to protect against large hollow-charge warheads, and would reduce the ordnance capacity of the CVV to 1191 tons, and the ordnance capacity of a modified-Kennedy reduced from an original 2000 tons to 1250 tons.

A fully automated magazine handling system like that in CVN-78 or CVF is also likely require more volume.

Of course size is also likely to be dictated by Airwing, and if you're using Northrop ATAs/A-11-style strike aircraft and/or NGADs, then a large flight deck will be required to handle them, which will also dictate the size of the carrier.

CVF doesn't, and it's the only good one that isn't American, so why would U.S. carriers bother?

The original CVF Design Alpha had Aster, the cut-down Delta that was actually built did not. Had Britain had a little more money, I expect CVF would have received Aster.
 
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Something like this perhaps, but with conventional propeller shafts in lieu of Azipods?

View attachment 711714
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If we're getting IEP ships, I'd just as soon use azipods if they're powerful enough. Less risk of flooding if you take a torpedo up the stern because there's no spinning hull penetrations!


The large magazine volume can be devoted to larger stand-off weapons and increased protection. Norman Friedman's US Aircraft Carriers discusses various protective features included in CVV's design, intended to protect against large hollow-charge warheads, and would reduce the ordnance capacity of the CVV to 1191 tons, and the ordnance capacity of a modified-Kennedy reduced from an original 2000 tons to 1250 tons.


A fully automated magazine handling system like that in CVN-78 or CVF is also likely require more volume.

Of course size is also likely to be dictated by Airwing, and if you're using Northrop ATAs/A-11-style strike aircraft and/or NGADs, then a large flight deck will be required to handle them, which will also dictate the size of the carrier.
110 sorties per day, each sortie carrying some 8 tons of boom. Call it 800 tons of boom per day, because not all the AAMs will get used unless something has gone horribly wrong. The CVV and modKennedy have 1.5 days continuous operations in terms of ordnance.
 
If we're getting IEP ships, I'd just as soon use azipods if they're powerful enough. Less risk of flooding if you take a torpedo up the stern because there's no spinning hull penetrations!

I'm not sure how they'd handle shock damage, and I'd want to fit Agouti/Prairie for silencing, and I'm not sure any existing azipod can do that (although it's been fitted to variable-pitch propellors, so I expect it could be done for azipods).
 
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I'm not sure how they'd handle shock damage, and I'd want to fit Agouti/Prairie for silencing, and I'm not sure any existing azipod can do that (although it's been fitted to variable-pitch propellors, so I expect it could be done for azipods).
Run the air line down the center of rotation, power lines around that probably via a stacked set of brushes and conductors.
 
HMAS Melbourne better than USS Constellation during RIMPAC 1980 :
 
When the Japanese attacked Pearl Harbour, the wargames they had made beforehand predicted the loss of 3 aircraft carriers. 0 were actually lost.
I think the results of these wargames are very relative.
Part of that was luck, in that the USN carriers were not in Pearl Harbor at the time.

War games, whether the highest end ones put together by defense staffs or the lowest end ones, designed by the most ignorant of fanbois, are only as good as the assumptions made in the rules and the interpretations of the rules. Before WW2, both defense against and offense with carrier-based aircraft, was not tested, so there was no way to calibrate the assumptions that went into designing the games.

Since WW2, there have been no actions where carriers were subject to significant attack. While the assumptions that the designers of current war games have more data behind them than did the ones that predated WW2, those data are nearly 80 years old.
 
When the Japanese attacked Pearl Harbour, the wargames they had made beforehand predicted the loss of 3 aircraft carriers. 0 were actually lost.
I think the results of these wargames are very relative.

Part of that was luck, in that the USN carriers were not in Pearl Harbor at the time.

War games, whether the highest end ones put together by defense staffs or the lowest end ones, designed by the most ignorant of fanbois, are only as good as the assumptions made in the rules and the interpretations of the rules. Before WW2, both defense against and offense with carrier-based aircraft, was not tested, so there was no way to calibrate the assumptions that went into designing the games.

Since WW2, there have been no actions where carriers were subject to significant attack. While the assumptions that the designers of current war games have more data behind them than did the ones that predated WW2, those data are nearly 80 years old.
No, the Japanese war-games predicted 3 JAPANESE carrier losses.

They were expecting US patrol aircraft to detect the first air strike as it approached Oahu, and for a retaliatory US air strike with bombers etc. to be launched to follow the carrier aircraft back and attack the IJN fleet - as they expected the US forces to actually be on alert and ready for take-off at short notice, not to be lined up and closely-packed (and without ammunition etc) with aircrews nowhere near their aircraft.
 

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