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VTOL On Demand Mobility

Sundog

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Flying car? Looks like an airplane to me. Apparently VTOL turns it into a car? ;)
 

Orionblamblam

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Sundog said:
Flying car? Looks like an airplane to me. Apparently VTOL turns it into a car? ;)
A lot of these small-ish VTOLs that are being touted as "flying cars" would result in YouTube videos of "11ft8" entertainment levels if someone actually tried to drive them down the road. If it's not a "car," it can't be a "flying car."
 

LowObservable

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I'm waiting for two things.

A marketing CGI of one of these systems working, when it's not daylight with zero precip, zero turbulence and unlimited visibility.

A video of a flight-test where we can hear the noise it makes, rather than some tinkly-tonk Muzak sound track.
 

AeroFranz

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The people in Urban Air Mobility (UAM) industry have been fighting the name "Flying car" for three years, pushing eVTOL instead, but at this point have pretty much given up. There's no way of getting the media to NOT call it a flying car.
 

LowObservable

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The Westland Belvedere in RAF service in the Far East was nicknamed "Mixmaster bilong suicide". How's that sound for e-VTOLs?
 

VTOLicious

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LowObservable said:
I'm waiting for two things.

A marketing CGI of one of these systems working, when it's not daylight with zero precip, zero turbulence and unlimited visibility.

A video of a flight-test where we can hear the noise it makes, rather than some tinkly-tonk Muzak sound track.
Here you go...
https://youtu.be/GBcLIr-pc4k
 

Moose

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Archibald said:
That E/VSTOL craze is... crazy !
I quite like it. Hasn't been this kind of energy and experimentation in manned civil aviation in a long time, certainly not in my lifetime.
 

Sundog

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BETA Technologies, the unexpected Lancair. Credit to them for using an existing design to limit the number of variables in their program.
 

LowObservable

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VTOLicious said:
LowObservable said:
I'm waiting for two things.

A marketing CGI of one of these systems working, when it's not daylight with zero precip, zero turbulence and unlimited visibility.

A video of a flight-test where we can hear the noise it makes, rather than some tinkly-tonk Muzak sound track.
Here you go...
https://youtu.be/GBcLIr-pc4k
So even in a rolling takeoff with no payload, I can hear it quite loudly from the interior of a relatively fast-moving car. The window of the car is likely to be down, but that means a lot of wind noise. VTOL will require more power, revs and tip speed.

1 - Lifting or propelling an air vehicle means moving air
3 - Moving air is noise
 

AeroFranz

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LowObservable said:
The Westland Belvedere in RAF service in the Far East was nicknamed "Mixmaster bilong suicide". How's that sound for e-VTOLs?
I think there was a Fana de l'Aviation article about the Belvedere (maybe May?) where one pilot flying it in the middle-east called it OWD (Old Woman's Delight) due to the vibrations.
There's going to be all sorts of interactions between the multiple rotors and the airframe, especially since these eVTOLs will see a wide range of angle of attack. On the other hand the electric motors themselves should be pretty smooth and operating at way higher RPMs, no? I see the slow RPM tandem rotor as a pretty extreme case of where problems stack up.
 

LowObservable

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“It’s decades away, if we’re super extra lucky,” said Richard Aboulafia, a Teal Group analyst. “It will be at least 15 or 20 years before the technological problems are solved, and then you have to deal with the economics.”

“Its quite possible also that unicorns could achieve air mobility,” Aboulafia said. “You can never rule out anything. But I’d give the unicorns a better shot.”

https://www.washingtonpost.com/business/capitalbusiness/boeings-futuristic-flying-taxi-rises-off-the-ground-in-manassas-va/2019/01/27/eb4ee40a-1f40-11e9-8b59-0a28f2191131_story.html?fbclid=IwAR0SRf_ai3ndFpZFOGXkksnwf4aYv9Sbbf0mCCkt7WTYjWhuo0tA9HBwuFs&utm_term=.7ede79ecc915
 
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Foo Fighter

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Washington post is a pay site. ::)
 

Arjen

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Use a private session to read wpsite.
 

fredymac

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Another Nexus video but with some technical info on performance, aerodynamics, safety, and noise.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VP9FYLDu3Og
 

LowObservable

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Presented by the Roswell Flight Test Center, appropriately enough.

On the positive side, the secret space Nazi anti-gravity technology is what's needed to make the idea work.
 

fredymac

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I would speculate that Bell has looked at the future and sees domestic service helicopters at risk of being supplanted by electric VTOL aircraft. In a case where your livelihood is at stake, having some control over the outcome forces you to be proactive. In case of failure, you lose some venture capital. In case of success, you are the agent that replaces yourself.

Someone who has compiled a portfolio of accurate past predictions on the success/failure of aerospace programs might be able to find lucrative employment advising companies like Bell. Otherwise, I would expect Bell to rely on subject matter experts in the fields of electric motors, batteries, noise mitigation, aerodynamics, and the like as a basic process of due diligence in assessing what is feasible and whether it makes sense to proceed.
 

VTOLicious

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Arjen said:
martinbayer said:
So, this being January 18, 2019, how did the maiden flight go?
The latest news I have found is a tweet from Airbus Helicopter boss Bruno Even
https://twitter.com/BrunoEven/status/1055749844810321920
Power up of demonstrator on 26 Oct 2018 - not the iron bird, as testing of that started in late 2017. Nothing about a first flight yet.
Airbus’s Flying Taxi Is Poised for Takeoff Within Weeks https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2019-01-23/airbus-s-flying-taxi-is-poised-for-takeoff-within-weeks
 

LowObservable

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Eight instant-on, digitally controlled head-removers, ah ha ha ha.
 

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sferrin

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VTOLicious said:
LowObservable said:
You can fly it inverted and mow your lawn.
Quite hard without variable pitch rotors
He didn't say you could mow the entire lawn. ;)
 

VTOLicious

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LowObservable said:
I'm waiting for two things.

A marketing CGI of one of these systems working, when it's not daylight with zero precip, zero turbulence and unlimited visibility.

A video of a flight-test where we can hear the noise it makes, rather than some tinkly-tonk Muzak sound track.
You could ask your fellas at AW for a sound file ;)
https://youtu.be/n8yfDTiZH4Q
 

LowObservable

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I suspect they'd have used it if it had been supplied to them. My guess is somewhere between "enraged vacuum cleaner" and "Satan's leaf-blower".
 

sferrin

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LowObservable said:
I suspect they'd have used it if it had been supplied to them. My guess is somewhere between "enraged vacuum cleaner" and "Satan's leaf-blower".
I suppose as long as they're not at Thunderscreech levels there will be backers.
 

shedofdread

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LowObservable said:
I suspect they'd have used it if it had been supplied to them. My guess is somewhere between "enraged vacuum cleaner" and "Satan's leaf-blower".
"Satan's leaf-blower" - Ah... memories of T-Hawk.... ;)
 

AeroFranz

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The noise signature can always be reduced by slowing down the tips, which requires torqui-er (hence heavier) motors. It does make closing the design that much harder, but is not a configuration killer per se. I don't think anyone will hit whatever noise level ends up being deemed acceptable right now, but there's still value in getting something off the ground to de-risk and validate other aspects of the system.
 

VTOLicious

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fredymac

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Thought I would put this here since it addresses an issue regarding air control with a sky full of drones. You will need much more pervasive and realtime monitoring of air traffic at higher resolution to keep tabs of everything.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=M9aLcTU2RXg
 

VTOLicious

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I was wondering where all the batteries are located to achieve 1 hour of flight time @160kts... and was quite surprised that a rather small hatch for the battery unit can be found in the rear of the vehicle. I would have assumed it is installed beneath the cabin floor.

Lilium_eVTOL-Jet_03a.jpg
 
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