VTOL On Demand Mobility

Zoo Tycoon

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Evtol industry…….'fake it until you make it' culture is still alive and well ……. sooner or later ….too many inexperienced startups trying to build quite advanced aircraft designs……. next few years there will be a bloodbath……..A disaster ….. the most fundamental was a fantasy about the economics ……..predicted impossibly low empty weights…….unattainable performance and range predictions,…………accomplish all of this in record setting time.

In the near future prison’s (State Pen’s) will no longer have their inmates stitching mail bags, or breaking rocks, instead they’ll be hosting innovation hubs, delivering TED talks and running techno creativity centres. Ah for these modern times.
 
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Rhinocrates

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In the near future prison’s (State Pen’s) will no longer have their inmates stitching mail bags, or breaking rocks, instead they’ll be hosting innovation hubs, delivering TED talks and running techno creativity centres. Ah for these modern times.

Who will be the audiences? If they're inmates, wouldn't that be 'cruel and unusual' punishment?
 

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alberchico

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It's not quite a evtol but still a fascinating concept. But there already is an ongoing effort to convert Cessna Caravans for unmanned cargo flights that would be a much more practical solution. Also a large unmanned aircraft is going to have a hard time being approved to fly over populated areas.

 

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TomcatViP

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The USAF awarded Jetoptera, Inc. a Direct to Phase II Small Business Innovation Research (SBIR) contract. Jetoptera will design, build out and test an Upper Surface Blown Wing (USB) equipped, powered high-lift test article integrating Jetoptera’s Fluidic Propulsive System (FPS™), to characterize and further demonstrate the potential of FPSTM to create a signature managed propulsion for VTOL aircraft. The experimental data will be used to deliver a conceptual design of a High Speed Vertical Take Off and Landing (HSVTOL) aircraft.


 

Fluff

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Targeted specs:

3passenger +1pilot payload
max takeoff weight 1500kg
For definite all pax's will be weighed......

...your not going to want to be the celeb, sorry influencer that gets turned away.....
 

TomcatViP

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C'mon. Have you flown an LSA? Teenagers think they are as good as any normal airplane. 40 something years old... Don't.
 

Rhinocrates

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Evtol industry…….'fake it until you make it' culture is still alive and well ……. sooner or later ….too many inexperienced startups trying to build quite advanced aircraft designs……. next few years there will be a bloodbath……..A disaster ….. the most fundamental was a fantasy about the economics ……..predicted impossibly low empty weights…….unattainable performance and range predictions,…………accomplish all of this in record setting time.

In the near future prison’s (State Pen’s) will no longer have their inmates stitching mail bags, or breaking rocks, instead they’ll be hosting innovation hubs, delivering TED talks and running techno creativity centres. Ah for these modern times.
Since so many of these are obvious scams, their fundraising is more complicated. This might be handy for reference in general too.
View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w6kW3sys79w
 

Zoo Tycoon

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I just don’t get this;-

This is a hypersonic hydro-lox powered endo-atmospheric transport which has just funded at stage A to 29 million $.

The CEO is Mikhail Kokorich who just 8months ago was tied into an investor fraud dispute for the last company he started Momentus, a rocket start up.


Looking at the SPAC ;-

How The Momentus SPAC Started

Stable Road Acquisition Corp., the SPAC that merged with Momentus, was formed in May 2019 with the idea to do a deal in the cannabis industry. As stated in their Prospectus, filed on 11/8/19:

“While our efforts to identify a target business may span many industries and regions worldwide, we intend to focus our search for prospects within the cannabis industry…”

The complaint was;-

“Internal company documents defined success as 100 thruster firings, each lasting at least one minute, but the thruster failed to perform even one firing of that duration, and only three of 23 produced any plasma. Momentus lost contact with the satellite three months into a six-month mission.” And “ While company executives, including Kokorich, were aware of the problems with the satellite, they did not disclose them either publicly or in discussions with Stable Road prior to their October 2020 merger announcement. ”

The claim was settled as follows;-

“ All the parties involved other than Kokorich agreed to settle the SEC’s charges. Momentus will pay a $7 million fine, while Stable Road will pay a $1 million fine and Kabot a $40,000 fine.”

So who on this planet gives the guy another 29million$ for his next company ?
 

martinbayer

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alberchico

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Aviation Week had an interesting article 2 weeks ago where it speculated that up to 75% of these start up companies could fail and the remaining 25% would have a hard time attracting funding because all the investors who got burned won't want to sink another penny into the evtol market.
 

TomcatViP

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At the end, there will be more money burned here than was coal on the Pan-American railroad. Speak about low carbon emissions!!
 
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Fluff

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At the end, there will be more money burned here than coal on the Pan-American railroad. Speak about low carbon emissions!!
it reminds me, where are all the SST's we were supposed to be zooming around in by now?, you know, breakfast in London, Lunch in San Francisco.

I'm afraid Uber without a human driver is far more likely to win this 'race'. Stick in a robot dog in case your too lazy to get of the sofa, and we are done here.
 

alberchico

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Boyington

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Moshier Technologies AURORA 400 VTOL Aircraft Project 1986
 

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alberchico

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Considering that Eve is a subsidiary of Embraer, they have a good chance of navigating the hurdles of certification and flight testing and getting this thing into service. By aiming for a late 2020's EIS, they can lean from the mistakes of others and take advantage of emerging technologies to leapfrog the competition.
 
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alberchico

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Hope it wasn't serious. :(

If the NTSB is investigating there must have been some substantial damage.


Edit : Looks like it may have been a high speed breakup or loss of control. So a total loss. Shame :eek:


 
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GTX

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Copy%20of%2022_JAN_2020_FULL%20SCALE%20CONCEPT%202.png
 

yasotay

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FAA will slow roll Joby. Look at the implications for AW-609 after a high speed failure, and their was a like platform flying in the DoD.
 

alberchico

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View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lSQw2ORhOrw&ab_channel=AutoFlight


Is it just me, or does the landing footage at 4:16 look like it's CGI ? Also the takeoff and vertical climb footage at 2:11 seems a little odd. Am I going crazy, or does it looks like some of this footage is faked ? o_O

Take a look at this footage of the Archer. This is how a evtol is supposed to move on takeoff. Notice how the other aircraft is steady as a rock in an unnatural way ?

View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lN0MK2PHgEo
 
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TomcatViP

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Yes, the touchdown sequence is odd. The rest seems legit (no wind, no Payload, minimal weight (that's how an eggshell is supposed to fly)).
 

VTOLicious

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Propellers distributed longitudinally provide much better pitch stability/control in contrast to Archer's configuration.

Autoflight's vertical lift system may not be as eye pleasing, but it is effective from a safety/reliability perspective and 8 rather large propellers enable a low disc loading.

In general: The advantage of a seperate lift-thrust configuration (SLT) is its inherent simplicity, which has a direct effect on reliability.
- No need for variable pitch propellers
- No propeller tilt mechanism
- No conversion during transition

Last but not least: The thrust-motor could be easily substituted with an internal combustion engine, which would enable long range/endurance, without major changes to the basic configuration. The simplest way to put a hybrid configuration into action.
 
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GTX

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Quite an informative article/interview on the AMSL Vertiia:

 

Archibald

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Oh geez, flying hydrogen tanks with electric engines, what could possibly go wrong ?
Ian Malcolm, as per my signature, wouldn't like this.

"electro-hydrogen flying taxis ? Yeah: oooh, aaah, that's how it always starts. Then later there's crashing, running, and... screaming." LMAO
 

Fluff

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Oh geez, flying hydrogen tanks with electric engines, what could possibly go wrong ?
Ian Malcolm, as per my signature, wouldn't like this.

"electro-hydrogen flying taxis ? Yeah: oooh, aaah, that's how it always starts. Then later there's crashing, running, and... screaming." LMAO
dont forget to build it just heavy enough to be certified.....
 

TomcatViP

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Propellers distributed longitudinally provide much better pitch stability/control in contrast to Archer's configuration.

Autoflight's vertical lift system may not be as eye pleasing, but it is effective from a safety/reliability perspective and 8 rather large propellers enable a low disc loading.

In general: The advantage of a seperate lift-thrust configuration (SLT) is its inherent simplicity, which has a direct effect on reliability.
- No need for variable pitch propellers
- No propeller tilt mechanism
- No conversion during transition

Last but not least: The thrust-motor could be easily substituted with an internal combustion engine, which would enable long range/endurance, without major changes to the basic configuration. The simplest way to put a hybrid configuration into action.

Don't forget that smaller rotors means a higher impact on rotor balance from accelerations. Wind loads, rate of climb or descent, yaw and bank will affect more a smaller rotor than a larger one.
So, if in theory the distribution of lift is a benefit for stabity, in effect it makes the aircraft less robust toward real flight conditions and one that loose quicker its efficiency. One notable aspect is vertical flight and descent where the smaller, more rigid, props and rotor system are more susceptible to recirculating flows and assymetrical ground effect.
 

alberchico

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Considering that this aircraft was operating at the extreme edge of its performance envelope, the basic design of the Joby is sound. I do wonder if the aircraft could have been saved had there been a pilot at the controls.
 
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TomcatViP

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I do wonder if it could have reached anything close to that speed has it been built to be manned....
 
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Great news if this were true, instead of relaying on the old swiveling nozzles like the Harrier, and Yak 141 or ducted fan solutions like the F-35B. maybe we'll see no compromise VTOL fighters in the future.

 

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