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Various Henschel projects

airman

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I have seen this book on Amazon.de : " Die Geschichte der Henschel Flugzeug-Werke A.G. in Schönefeld bei Berlin 1933 bis 1945" of Horst Materna , i hope will be published and english version and possible ebook version !!
 

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airman

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hesham said:
Hi,


here is a drawing to Hs.129C project.
Source ? I have read about it : the engines was the Isotta Fraschini of 850 Hp !
 

hesham

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My dear Airmen,


the source is; Samolot szturmowy Henschel Hs 129
 

airman

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hesham said:
My dear Airmen,


the source is; Samolot szturmowy Henschel Hs 129
thanks Hesham !! :)

I have seen it : i don't understand why on wikipedia was reported Henschel Hs 129C like prototype and there are also Hs 129 D with Bmw 801 as project .
 

hesham

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By the way,


Henschel Hs.132 developed early as a Henschel P.123.
 

hesham

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hesham said:
Henschel Hs.132 developed early as a Henschel P.123.

The source;

"X-planes - German Luftwaffe Prototypes 1930-1945" by Manfred Griehl, Casemate 2012
 

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Stargazer2006

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hesham said:
The source;
You have polluted every topic about German projects with the same useless image.

A scan of a title is NOT a reference. No author? No publisher? No complete cover? Is it even a proper book? Or just someone who compiled wikipedia articles into a PDF book to make a few bucks on eBay? (it does happen quite a bit!)
 

Arjen

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'X-planes - German Luftwaffe Prototypes 1930-1945' by Manfred Griehl, Casemate 2012.
http://www.amazon.com/X-Planes-German-Luftwaffe-Prototypes-1930-1945/dp/184832555X
 

hesham

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Skyblazer said:
You have polluted every topic about German projects with the same useless image.

It was not polluted,I thought that was enough to know the name of the book.
 

Jemiba

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SlickDriver

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Flitzer - Wow you work is always appreciated.


Thanks for all you do.
 

blackkite

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Mysterious Henschel P.75 pusher heavy fighter.
Where is the ram air intake and the radiator? Skin cooler same as He100?

http://foofighters.greyfalcon.us/German%201000%20km.htm

http://www.luft46.com/aoart/aop75.html

http://s4.photobucket.com/user/kightcat/media/world%20ships/aircraft/ww2/Axis%20powers/HenschelHsP75HeavyFighter.png.html

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WDnXjVgzaV4

http://shimauma.zashiki.com/kisou/kisou_SS2.html
 

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dan_inbox

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Well, if it is on the greyfalcon site, it is not likely to be accurate, or even serious.
 

blackkite

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Vertical tail stabilizer was a propeller guard device and effective at high angle of attack, too.
Vertical tail stabilizer is very large, but good surface for skin cooler. ;D

http://www.militaryfactory.com/aircraft/detail.asp?aircraft_id=822

You can see Justo-san's super drawing with retractable(?) oil cooler and retractable(?) radiator here.
http://www.luft46.com/henschel/hsp75.html
 

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blackkite

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I think that He100 cooled the engine by retractable radiator and skin oil cooler at zero speed engine test run or low speed taxing.
Because retractable radiator and skin oli cooler were covered by high speed propeller stream.
Perhaps wing skin cooler were not so effective at zero speed engine test run or low speed taxing, because air speed which covered wing was almost zero.
J7W1 Shinden had a ejector type oil cooler which utilized engine exhaust gas to cool oil at zero speed. And also had a forced cooling fan.
Perhaps P.75 needed to think about how to cool engine at zero speed.
Perhaps P.75 needed radiator and oil cooler near propeller.
But we can't see them in existing drawings.
So perhaps radiator and oil cooler were retractable. Or oil cooler was a fixed type skin cooler located at vertical stabilizer.
Perhaps retractable radiator was located upper fuselage end near propeller.
So I think that P.75 had skin cooler for engine cooling fluid and had skin cooler for engine oil.
Also I think that it's better to have engine ram air intake at wing root leading edge same as He100 and He219 for low drag.

This site shows the model with wing leading edge ram air intake.
http://happyscale-modellbau.blogspot.jp/2014/02/henschel-hsp75-resin-172.html

3D model with skin cooler? You can see every angle of this excellent super model which has a beautiful blended wing body by mouse.
http://helijah.free.fr/flightgear/les-appareils/hsp75/appareil.htm

The main landing gear of this model is retracted to forward direction.
http://www.luft46.com/henschel/hsp75a.jpg

Henschel engineers designed compact powerful fighter by DB613 engine, canard shape and blended wing body concept.
I think the reason why main landing gear is retracted into the fuselage is to keep fuel tank space and skin cooler space at the wing.
Cockpit of P.75 is very small, so we feel that P.75 is very large.

Luft46
http://www.luft46.com/henschel/hsp75.html

Another model.
http://murphs-models.webs.com/x-planes
 

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blackkite

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Hi Henschel Hs p.87 bomber.
We can see fixed radiator located bottom of the fuselage.
http://www.inpayne.com/models/luft46/hsp87.html
 

blackkite

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Does anyone have the original drawing or the original document of Hs P.75 fighter?
 

blackkite

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Hi!
http://www.airvectors.net/avcanfit.html

" THE HENSCHEL P.75

The German Henschel aircraft firm toyed with canard designs, though none of them flew. The "P.75" was conceived in 1941; it was a sleek, futuristic fighter that was to have been armed with four MK 108 30 millimeter cannon in the nose, and powered by a Daimler-Benz DB 610 engine driving contraprops. The tailfin was placed on the bottom instead of the top of the aircraft to keep the props from divoting on the runway on takeoff.
Henschel P.75

The DB 610 was basically two DB 605 vee-12 engines ganged together. The DB 610 was being developed for the Heinkel He-177 bomber, and proved a major stumbling block in the He-177 development program; the engine had an unfortunate tendency to catch fire, with the He-177 demonstrating the odd inclination of German engineering to be too clever for its own good. Later the P.75 was to be fitted with the DB 613 engine, though whether it would have been an improvement is unclear -- it consisted of twin ganged DB 603 vee-twelve engines.
HENSCHEL P.75
_____________________ _________________ _______________________

spec metric english
_____________________ _________________ _______________________

wingspan 11.3 meters 37 feet 1 inch
wing area 28.4 sq_meters 305.7 sq_feet
length 12.2 meters 40 feet
height 4.3 meters 14 feet 1 inch

MTO weight 7,500 kilograms 16,535 pounds
max speed at altitude 790 KPH 490 MPH / 425 KT
service ceiling 12,000 meters 39,370 feet
_____________________ _________________ _______________________



The P.75 never got beyond wind tunnel models. Henschel also came up with a design for a canard fast bomber, the "P.87", which was to be driven by a single Daimler-Benz DB 610 engine driving a pusher contraprop. It also never amounted to more than a back-of-the envelope design. It seems plausible that "paper plane" canard designs were considered by the Soviets and other combatants, but if so they didn't fly and information on them is lacking. "

RC model flight movie. No problem. B)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=puwookJnRlo
 

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blackkite

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I feel P.75 image by Justo-san has slim nose and large vertical stabilizer compared with another one.
Which is correct?
Source: Luft46

No ram air intake. ;D
http://www.photonesta.com/henschel-hs-p-75.html
 

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blackkite

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Hi Hs132.

http://www.airwar.ru/enc/bww2/hs132.html

No problem. B)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=G-bG00wF-ec
 

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blackkite

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Was a technological tie-up agreement between Heinkel and Henschel at the day?

Please push この動画はYoutubeでご覧下さい。

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sTrgD90MvQA
 

blackkite

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Hi Hs P.130 ultimate shape piston engine fighter.
This almost flying wing or delta wing aircraft was an ancestor of P.135 jet fighter. Similar to Northrop XP-56.

I imagine that this cocept was developed through following route.
P.75 canard popeller fighter⇒P.87 swept wing canard propeller bomber⇒P.130 all wing propeller fighter⇒P.135 all wing jet fighter

http://www.ecardmodels.com/index.php/1-48-henschel-p-130-blue-nose-paper-model.html

http://www.flying-things.ch/RESERVE2/hsp130.jpg

http://corsair.flugmodellbau.de/files/dreiseit/XP-56.GIF

No ploblem. B)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ruZLpdK7akA
 

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Does anyone know if a carrier-capable variant of the Hs-123 was ever designed/planned?

It would seem to be a useful type for GRAF ZEPPELIN to have carried...
 

blackkite

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Hi!
Ican't find any information about carrier type Hs123.

http://www.airwar.ru/enc/aww2/hs123.html

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=H_pMYtF_s8c

You can see engine ram air intake bottom end of the engine nacelle.
http://foto-transporta.ru/key/%D0%A7%D0%B5%D1%80%D1%82%D0%B5%D0%B6?g2_itemId=14379&g2_imageViewsIndex=1
 

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blackkite

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Can you see ram air intake?
I think that this model is comprehensive.
 

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hesham

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In my files,

the Henschel P.136 was a tailless rocket-powered fighter Project,based on P.135,and was not a canard aircraft.
 

newsdeskdan

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hesham said:
In my files,

the Henschel P.136 was a tailless rocket-powered fighter Project,based on P.135,and was not a canard aircraft.
P 136 was Henschel's Natter, with only the pilot position carried over from the P 135. This is from Nikolaus's own candid report on his company's projects.
 

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hesham

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newsdeskdan said:
P 136 was Henschel's Natter, with only the pilot position carried over from the P 135. This is from Nikolaus's own candid report on his company's projects.
New Info my dear Dan,but I can't translate well.
 

newsdeskdan

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hesham said:
newsdeskdan said:
P 136 was Henschel's Natter, with only the pilot position carried over from the P 135. This is from Nikolaus's own candid report on his company's projects.
New Info my dear Dan,but I can't translate well.
It's rather scant to be honest. Nikolaus's report gives a brief outline of 28 different unbuilt Henschel projects, some of them with 'P' numbers given, most of them without. The P 136 was one of three projects intended for intercepting American bombers. The first was an unguided rocket with a manned glider on its back (it sounds very similar to one of those Stockel projects), the second was the P 136 - which was a catapult-launched rocket-propelled tailless design with a reclined pilot (almost lying on his back as in the P 135) and armed with 12 x 5cm rockets fired from two launchers. It had no landing gear, only skids.
It's been said that the P 136 was the same as the P 135 but with rocket engines, however, that can't be entirely true because the wing area of the P 136 is only 11.2sqm, compared to 20.5sqm for the P 135.
So smallish wings (but still bigger than those of the Natter at 4.7sqm), two rocket launchers, no undercarriage, pilot position like that of the P 135, catapult take off, skid landing. What the rest of the P 136 looked like we can't be sure (or at least I can't be sure).
The third 'solution' to the American bombers was something like the P 136 but with the rear section redesigned to incorporate an annular ramjet around the rocket engine. Which also sounds like some of the Stockel designs...
 

Wurger

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Dan, would you be a sport and list those unbuilt Henschel projects within the Nikolaus`s report?
 

hesham

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Wow,many thanks my dear Dan,

and do you have a drawings to them ?.
 

newsdeskdan

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Wurger said:
Dan, would you be a sport and list those unbuilt Henschel projects within the Nikolaus`s report?
I will eventually. See below. The 28th and last one is my personal favourite - evidently Henschel designed the pressure cabin for the DFS 228 but regarded the rest of the 228 as "aerodynamically unrefined". It was therefore proposed to create a tailless altitude/speed record attempt aircraft by putting together a DFS 228 pressure cabin, P 135 wings and an all-new fuselage.
There are a handful of sketches (not original drawings) with the report but also a selection of photos, including one of a P 75 model that looks quite a lot different from the design depicted elsewhere.
I've attached the frontispiece, p2 (to give you an idea of the layout) and p40 which has the weird DFS 228/P 135 hybrid description on it.

The 28 break down as:
Single-seat fighter - four projects
1938 fighter with rotating wing
1941 P 75
1944-45 P 130
1944-45 P 135 (in parallel with P 130)

Heavy fighter - three projects
1936 similar to Bf 110
1944 heavy weapons mod Ju 188
1944 flying wing

Ground-attack aircraft - five projects (no individual dates, just '1939-43' to encompass them all)
similar to Hs 123
similar to Fw 190
similar to Hs 129
2 x jet single-seater with limited calibre weapons
similar to V-1

Bomber - three projects
1936 4 x Jumo 210
1938 4 x Jumo 210 but canard configuration
1944 4 x BMW 018 tailless

Battlefield reconnaissance - one project
1940 heavily modified two-seater Hs 129

Long-range reconnaissance - three projects
1942 2 engine high-altitude
1943 3 x jet canard
1944 as 1943 but tailless

Commercial/military transport - four projects
1941 2 engine high-speed airliner for DLH
1942 4 engine transatlantic airliner for DLH
1942 as above but diesel-fuelled for DLH
1942 tactical transport for Luftwaffe

Special aircraft - five projects
1941 2 x pulsejet light bomber
1944 unguided missile with glider attached
1944 P 136
1944 P 136 with additional ramjet
(no date) DFS 228/P 135 hybrid
 

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hesham

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OMG,many thanks to you my dear Dan.
 

Wurger

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Extremely interesting stuff!!! Thank you a lot, Dan, you certainly make me wonder.
 

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Dan,

thanks for sharing. These reports are fantastic original sources. Are they publicly accessible?
 

Wurger

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Dan, can you please check if the 1944 heavy weapons modified Ju 188 and the 1944 flying wing incorporate a Hs 129 like cockpit? This I take from Smith/Kay`s "German Aircraft of World war Two", back from the 70`s.
 
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