US Supersonic Transport (SST) Program 1960-1971

[galgot]

There is a very nice hires picture of the 2707-300 mockup cockpit here :
https://www.flickr.com/photos/shawnclover/5385331634

And , the Museum of Flight Restoration Facility apparently has a nice 2707-200 cutaway :
https://www.flickr.com/photos/jtalle/8202993685/in/album-72157632061228442/

 

[blackkite]

Hi galgot -san!
Your next targets are B2707-300 and L2000-7B?
Of course both are ultimate realistic beauty which we almost get.

 

[hesham]

Hi,

here is an artist drawing to SST aircraft of 1962,the upper one looks like North American
design,but the lower one is unknown ?.

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/1962-Supersonic-Transport-SST-Aircraft-2000-mph-Airliner-Airplane-Jet-INCO-Ad-/151875488242?hash=item235c7c09f2:g:S1gAAOSw14xWOq2U

 

[JimK]

Here is the design genealogy that that led to the Boeing 2707-300. This has appeared in Japanese in a posting back in 2007, and an English translation was requested but did not appear until an illegible copy of this was posted in Reply #489. I apologize that the image is not more legible, but I believe you can make out the model numbers. I added a more legible 2707-300 planform from another post so we could keep in mind the eventual result of this progression. The final image was reassembled from three images on a single sheet of paper and is from the paper "Design Evolution of the Boeing 2707-300 Supersonic Transport", by W.C. Swan of the Boeing Company, so I believe no Boeing proprietary information is involved. Of course, a better copy must exist in the Boeing archives. I do not know the source of the original paper. I hope this adds a little bit of order to the collection of Boeing and SCAT model numbers scattered across this thread. Now if we could find something similar for the Lockheed L-2000-7 . . .

 

[blackkite]

Hi! I imagine it's something like this.

 

[galgot]

Thank you both ! Super nice .

Hi galgot -san!
Your next targets are B2707-300 and L2000-7B?
Of course both are ultimate realistic beauty which we almost get.

sorry for late response Blackkite-San.
Don't know yet. Still playing with 2707-200.
But I'm collecting doc on the Lockheed too...

 

[blackkite]

Good news for me and KJ!!

 

[MaxLegroom]

From beginning to end...economic and route analysis prepared for United Airlines by North American Aviation, outlining what the NAC-60 could do for United Airlines

 

[MaxLegroom]

Part Two thereof...

 

[MaxLegroom]

Part Three...

 

[MaxLegroom]

Part Four...

 

[blackkite]

Wow amazing item.
Thanks for sharing us.
Of course NAA could do it perfectly. They made B-70!!

 

[hesham]

Great report,thank you Max.

 

[MaxLegroom]

From another source, there's actually a bit more. I'm not quite where I need to finish my research, but nearer to it.

 

[Orionblamblam]

From beginning to end...economic and route analysis prepared for United Airlines by North American Aviation, outlining what the NAC-60 could do for United Airlines

That's some great stuff, much appreciated! A request, though... do you have a shot of the page with the legend for the cutaway? The page seen on the far left of this image?

IMG_20141010_142723742a.jpg

 

[MaxLegroom]

Thanks for reminding me. It was kinda late when I posted this, so there is no surprise that I forgot something.

 

[MaxLegroom]

Here's the key to the cutaway, or this handy wallpaper...

 

[Sundog]

Wow, thanks. Excellent reference material.

 

[Orionblamblam]

Here's the key to the cutaway, or this handy wallpaper...

Many thanks!

 

[galgot]

Thanks ! excellent stuff.

 

[Archibald]

What a beautitful bird - of clear XB-70 legacy.

 

[blackkite]

NAC-60 was planned to have Titanium alloy structure instead of stainless steel honeycomb sandwith which B-70 had.(B-70 experience feeed back?)
I only doubt about fuel leak that B-70 and SR-71 experienced.
But cruising mach number was lowered from mach3 to mach2.7......
How about compression lift theory appplication?
I can see wedge shape structure in the engine nacelle.......

 

[galgot]

Aarrrrrrgg....
http://www.ebay.fr/itm/BOEING-SST-MODEL-2707-MODEL-SPECIFICATION-MANUAL-L-K-/291616561660?hash=item43e5b399fc:g:UnkAAOSwFGNWR7CB

http://www.ebay.fr/itm/BOEING-SST-2707-200-2-DOCUMENTS-L-K-/291616573805?hash=item43e5b3c96d:g:AJIAAOSwiwVWR7Ek

http://www.ebay.fr/itm/BOEING-SST-CONFIGURATION-DEFINITION-MDEL-B-2707-TONS-OF-DIAGRAMS-/291616532402?hash=item43e5b327b2:g:KjIAAOSwcdBWR6Yx

Finished my model, and now some new highly detailled documentation appears ...
:'(

 

[Orionblamblam]

I'm bidding on these (and some others) but have no real hope of getting them... the same seller has sold a lot of things in the recent past, most going to a very limited number of buyers willing to spend a *lot* on them.

 

[galgot]

Seems there is even the skin panels plan in there !....*dreaming*

 

[foiling]

Hmmm, i'd be tempted to bid, but the postage to South Africa almost doubles the price.

 

[Orionblamblam]

Hmmm, i'd be tempted to bid, but the postage to South Africa almost doubles the price.

Once bidding is done, rest assured that postage will probably be a very minor fraction of the total.

 

[galgot]

Wow… see here : http://www.ebay.fr/itm/301798996022

Looks like the last iteration of the -200 with the swept canards ?

 

[Orionblamblam]

Wow… see here

That's one of the ones I'm bidding on...

 

[RAP]

http://www.ebay.com/itm/VINTAGE-FLYING-REVIEW-INTERNATIONAL-AVIATION-MAGAZINE-MAR-1967-SST-SPECIAL-/291619274153?hash=item43e5dcfda9:g:gE4AAOSwd0BVwEpG

 

[MaxLegroom]

NAC-60 was planned to have Titanium alloy structure instead of stainless steel honeycomb sandwith which B-70 had.(B-70 experience feeed back?)
I only doubt about fuel leak that B-70 and SR-71 experienced.
But cruising mach number was lowered from mach3 to mach2.7......
How about compression lift theory application?
I can see wedge shape structure in the engine nacelle.......

Yes, the dihedral in the wings comes from what was learned while developing the B-70, where some dihedral was added to the wing design of the second aircraft. I had expected the cockpit to rely on things learned from the B-70 as well, which it clearly did.

It seemed to me that the compression lift was a bit of a trade off. There was added life, but also added drag. North American and Lockheed expected to add speed to Mach 3 later. The Mach 2.65 promised by the NAC-60 was a bit slower than the 2.7 expected out of Lockheed's and Boeing's designs.

I lack, frankly, the expertise to determine if NAC-60 was any sounder a design than the others aerodynamically. If actual experience developing an aircraft that size to fly in that actual environment counts for anything, then I'd have trusted North American more than either of the others. The board making the decisions, however, had a definite bias in favor of variable geometry, and nicked both NAA and Lockheed for not having it. It tends to seem like a Murphy's law sort of thing to design a SST by throwing the one company with the necessary experience out of the competition in the first round.

 

[blackkite]

"If that guy has any way of making a mistake, he will."

 

[blackkite]

Hi!
I made a table for Lockheed L-2000-7A/B specification.(Design Phase ⅡC, Time limit 6/9/1966)
Source : Japanese aviation Journal magazine.

 

[hesham]

Hi,

here is a clearer view to an artist drawing for early Lockheed SST concept.

 

[MaxLegroom]

http://www.ebay.com/itm/VINTAGE-FLYING-REVIEW-INTERNATIONAL-AVIATION-MAGAZINE-MAR-1967-SST-SPECIAL-/291619274153?hash=item43e5dcfda9:g:gE4AAOSwd0BVwEpG

Now I need to go through the archives sometime. I know I actually had a copy of that magazine at one time...

 

[Graham1973]

Something I found on the NTRS, a McDD Supersonic design from 1978.... Not a bad looking bird if I do say so myself.

The results of an advanced supersonic transport aircraft/engine integration study to be used as a detail preliminary design case to assist in the assessment of noise standards applicable to future supersonic transports are summarized. The design considered reflects the application of the advanced technologies which are projected to be available for program initiation in the 1980-1985 time period.

Reference aircraft for ICAO Working Group E

http://ntrs.nasa.gov/archive/nasa/casi.ntrs.nasa.gov/19780024144.pdf

 

[hesham]

Something I found on the NTRS, a McDD Supersonic design from 1978.... Not a bad looking bird if I do say so myself.

The results of an advanced supersonic transport aircraft/engine integration study to be used as a detail preliminary design case to assist in the assessment of noise standards applicable to future supersonic transports are summarized. The design considered reflects the application of the advanced technologies which are projected to be available for program initiation in the 1980-1985 time period.

Reference aircraft for ICAO Working Group E

http://ntrs.nasa.gov/archive/nasa/casi.ntrs.nasa.gov/19780024144.pdf

Great find Graham,

it was called D-3230,I found before D-3233;
http://www.secretprojects.co.uk/forum/index.php/topic,1296.msg166358.html#msg166358

 

[MaxLegroom]

This is an excellent find. But doesn't it belong in the other (post-1971) thread?

 

[KJ_Lesnick]

I'm not sure if this was mentioned here or elsewhere but I'm curious as to a proposal by Boeing to operate the B-2707-100 @ Mach 3 instead of 2.7: I'm not sure what modifications were needed to the wings, but I remember it produced substantial L/D ratios over the baseline design.

At Mach 2.7 the design would produce a L/D ratio of around 8.2
At Mach 3.0 an L/D of 9.2 or 9.3 was said to be doable.

 

[hesham]

NAC-60;

http://archive.aviationweek.com/image/spread/19640210/20/2