US Navy’s UCLASS / CBARS / MQ-XX / MQ-25 Stingray Program

[...]Also the MQ-25A will be the first butterfly tail on a carrier. So that's not really proven either.
Supermarine type 508 was tested on HMS Eagle.
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Image found here: https://www.iwm.org.uk/collections/item/object/205187767

The French Navy also used the butterfly tailed CM.175 Zephyr as their primary carrier trainer for quite a while.

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Honestly I had trouble even thinking of any military jets with a butterfly tail, other than the YF-23 and Magister. Didn't realize there was a carrier version of the latter.
 
Good Day All -

I was over near Mid-America a few weeks ago and found the MQ-25 partially out of the hangar so took a pic thru the fence. First time I have seen it with the refueling pod on. Also note the upper surface spoiler and it appears the right butterfly tail surface is not mounted.

Enjoy the Day! Mark
 

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Service leaders announced last week they want to base a squadron of 20 MQ-25A Stingray tanker drones, which leaders say will revolutionize carrier air wings, at Naval Base Ventura County in Point Mugu, California. The base is about 65 miles west of Los Angeles.


Also
 
 
I just assumed in a tanker configuration that the pod would be counter balanced by a drop tank on the other side. I assume the buddy store for this flight is empty for the first time out.
 
MQ-25's new Boeing satcom flat antenna:

The new electronically steered antenna, developed by Boeing's Phantom Works advanced technology division, is the fourth iteration the aerospace giant has come up with and the second to rely on Ka-band frequencies. It can also tap into the Defense Department's Wideband Global Satcom satellite system. Over its predecessor, this version improves all three of size, weight and power (SWAP) by getting smaller and adding air cooling and tacks on the ability to receive dual beams, according to Tom Gathman, manager of communications and mission systems for Boeing Phantom Works.


The price decrease, in particular, puts the antenna in greater consideration for adoption. Defense customers are willing to spend considerably more than the commercial operators; Gathman said that market studies are showing a willingness to spend "several hundred thousand" dollars per antenna.

"Certainly, a lot of the reports are, one of the [reasons for] hesitancy of adoption thus far has been on the price point, but we think we’ve got that licked," he said, though he declined to share a number.

The other demand from customers has been open architecture.

"Several customers have commented to us that being locked into proprietary solutions is not the way to go in the future," Gathman said, leading Boeing to design the antenna to be modular, scalable and work easily with third-party modems.

The modem and the network signal are the biggest determinant in performance, Gathman said, but the antenna can handle a throughput of tens or hundreds of MBs of data if enough satellite power is devoted to the task.

The antenna system, which comprises the antenna itself and a power source, both line-replaceable and able to be placed "quite a distance apart" from each other, can be installed quickly — measured in hours, not days — and easily. Previous generations have been done in the field
 
Some interesting tidbits from report:

....Under the Proposed Action, the Navy would home base 20 Stingray CBUAS; construct a hangar, training facilities, and supporting infrastructure; perform air vehicle (AV) maintenance; provide training for air vehicle operators (AVOs) and maintainers; conduct approximately 960 Stingray CBUAS annual flight operations.....

....The Stingray CBUAS is designed to enhance aircraft carrier capability and versatility for the Joint Forces Commander through integration of an effective, sustainable, and adaptable Unmanned Aerial System (UAS) into the carrier air wing (CVW). The Stingray CBUAS will be the Navy’s first carrier-based unmanned aircraft to function primarily as a mission refueling AV, extending the range and reach of the CVW. The Stingray CBUAS will also provide secondary recovery tanking (refueling close to the carrier), as well as intelligence, surveillance, and reconnaissance capabilities....

....The Navy anticipates establishing a home base for the Stingray CBUAS on each coast of the continental U.S. and one permanent detachment in support of the Forward Deployed Naval Forces-Japan. Based on strategic guidance, the West Coast squadron would be established before the East Coast squadron. The Fleet Replacement Squadron (FRS) must be co-located with the first operational squadron to provide initial and follow-on training. This EA focuses on the home basing for the West Coast of the continental U.S. The West Coast Stingray CBUAS Squadron would be comprised of four detachments, each intended to be deployed with an E-2C/D Hawkeye Airborne Command & Control (VAW) squadron.

....The Stingray CBUAS consists of two segments, the AV (aircraft) and the ground control station. The AV is capable of launch and recovery aboard aircraft carriers at-sea and at airfields on land. Stingray CBUAS’ support and handling equipment includes the deck handling system, spares, and repair materials. An AVO uses the ground control station and its associated communication equipment in line of sight and beyond line of sight control of the AV for all phases of the mission, including engine start, taxi, take-off, mission functions, landing, and engine shutdown.

....The first Stingray CBUAS detachment and all supporting elements will begin operation in the U.S. Pacific Fleet no later than FY 2025. The Stingray CBUAS will achieve full operational capability in approximately FY 2031.

....AVO training in the fleet and FRS is expected to take place largely in virtual environments. Virtual training is supplemented with live flight training. The Stingray CBUAS will perform conventional take-offs and landings ashore and will also have the ability to perform an arrested landing in the event of AV malfunction or when conditions warrant a precautionary arrested landing. AVO proficiency training will include some live flight training; however, the number of expected flights and airfield operations are significantly less than that of other manned carrier squadrons.

...During offshore flight operations, Stingray CBUAS may conduct its aerial refueling mission at altitudes between 5,000 and 25,000 feet.

...Building PM385 Battery Shop: An approximately 2,000 sq ft addition to the existing aircraft battery shop on the installation in Building PM385 is proposed for lithium-ion battery maintenance and storage (Figure 2.3-3).
 
 
View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GqZOaUpORjo

View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=q2uGkF2J1Y0


 
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View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=q2uGkF2J1Y0


The future is now!

 
Spent 6 years (1980-1986) in the USN, 4 years on CVN-65 (AIMD) and boy, we really needed a dedicated tanker then instead of using KA-6's when I was aboard. Then KS-3s came into being and now F-18s. Hopefully, MQ-25 can carry plenty of gas.
 
I'd think there would be a wide inventory of sensors from the MQ-9 program that could more or less strap on to a MQ-25 for surveillance. That's probably not a really great fit; the MQ-25 is in a much heavier (and higher altitude?) weight class, but those could likely be off the shelf buys with limited integration.

One place where a long endurance, unmanned platform might shine in USN usage is ASW warfare. There are pods for sonobuoys for the MQ-9 already; it seems to me this would be an obvious and desirable role for MQ-25s to have some capability in.
 
No surprise that the USN is getting pressed to do more with the MQ-25 before it has been to sea. ASW might be an alternate mission. Has there been any technology work that precludes sticking a great big stick out of the back end of the aircraft? If it can be done without significant modification I would think that a good option.
 
No surprise that the USN is getting pressed to do more with the MQ-25 before it has been to sea. ASW might be an alternate mission. Has there been any technology work that precludes sticking a great big stick out of the back end of the aircraft? If it can be done without significant modification I would think that a good option.

By stick, do you mean MAD? Probably the least important sensor to hang on a modern ASW aircraft, especially one optimized for high level work. There's a reason the P-8 doesn't have one (only partially financial).

The interesting issue with an ASW MQ-25 would be how dedicated it would be. If you could just hang a couple of sonobouy pods in lieu of the hose and drogue, that's easy but leaves you with the issue of how to actually prosecute a target. Adding torpedoes (or HAAWC) would likely displace the sensors into the fuselage, making a much more extensive dedicated conversion.
 
In the ASW role, one pod could potentially house sensors and another could carry ordnance. Or possibly they could operate in pairs or with helos and land based air, depending on circumstances. Anyway, it was just a thought on other uses for the craft; I think they will be quite busy just offloading fuel unless they are purchased in larger numbers than the USN has stated so far.
 
No surprise that the USN is getting pressed to do more with the MQ-25 before it has been to sea. ASW might be an alternate mission. Has there been any technology work that precludes sticking a great big stick out of the back end of the aircraft? If it can be done without significant modification I would think that a good option.

By stick, do you mean MAD? Probably the least important sensor to hang on a modern ASW aircraft, especially one optimized for high level work. There's a reason the P-8 doesn't have one (only partially financial).

The interesting issue with an ASW MQ-25 would be how dedicated it would be. If you could just hang a couple of sonobouy pods in lieu of the hose and drogue, that's easy but leaves you with the issue of how to actually prosecute a target. Adding torpedoes (or HAAWC) would likely displace the sensors into the fuselage, making a much more extensive dedicated conversion.
Apologies neglected to type in MAD. Thank you, was not aware that is "old" technology. Your point about viable muntions is well taken.
 
I think MAD is not seen as especially useful in the context of modern active sonars. The range isn't that great, along with the requirement to fly low. I believe it isn't a sensor that scores an initial detection, its something used to refine position - for instance, running down a bearing-only target. I think the renewed emphasis of operating at high altitude and using active sonar for even initial detection has largely frozen out the niche it used to fill. It was deleted from the MH-60R for weight reasons and I believe the P-8 more for cost. An active directional buoy like DICASS would typically be used to generate a firing control solution anyway (or perhaps the dipping sonar in the case of MH-60). The Indian Navy notably still wanted it, and P-8I's do in fact have a 'stinger'.
 
I think most of Reaper's/Predator Pods are good candidates, GA willing. Anti-surface warfare also (fast attack boat, helo, cruise missiles...). Not Sub-surface.
 
With NGAD not likely to show up anytime soon, they are probably better off funding a couple of additional UAV's for dedicated ISR and ASW missions. Optimize them for the specific mission and induct them over 4-5 years or so. I just don't see the fixation of a sole source design that gets adapted for each and every mission the Navy feels it needs to offload to an unmanned aircraft. Better to have multiple teams working on this...
 
No surprise that the USN is getting pressed to do more with the MQ-25 before it has been to sea. ASW might be an alternate mission. Has there been any technology work that precludes sticking a great big stick out of the back end of the aircraft? If it can be done without significant modification I would think that a good option.
Or do it like the choppers do (towed MAD; the red and yellow thing):

1623972755588.png

 
I think most of Reaper's/Predator Pods are good candidates, GA willing. Anti-surface warfare also (fast attack boat, helo, cruise missiles...). Not Sub-surface.
The Navy is interested. A few years back they laid sonobouys and had GA overfly with their Lynx radar-equiped maritime "SeaGuardian" Reaper proposal to receive and process the sonar data onboard and relay it via satellite.
Then either last fall or winter, GA successfully laid a sonobouy from a wing-mounted pod.

It's not going to replace the P-8 or Seahawks, but I don't doubt they are interested in potential equipment kits for the MQ-25 that also include a supplementary ASW role.

How easy that is to package in a way that is easy to swap or doesn't compromise the other missions they'd like to perform, time will tell, but they are obviously looking at unmanned ASW capabilities.

Long endurance ASW from the carrier deck way out in bluewater is going to be desirable. P-8 only gets you a thousand miles from shore or so with time-on-station. And the farther out you send them, the more sorties you need to generate to maintain coverage.
 

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