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US Navy’s UCLASS / CBARS / MQ-XX / MQ-25 Stingray Program

TomcatViP

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:rolleyes:

... I think you've got a point. My bad.

Obviously, my ill-fated remark was more on aerodynamics: less a proven system to land autonomously without tail on a carrier.
 

VTOLicious

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X-47...it seems to have been a victim of the requirement changing to just a refueling aircraft, but the platform had a lot more potential and would have been ready sooner.
Indeed... Boeing had its UCLASS prototype ready to go and it satisfied the tanker role without major changes to the airframe, apparently. LM and GA had no hardware to show and we never saw a Northrop proposal for CBARS btw.
 

sferrin

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:rolleyes:

... I think you've got a point. My bad.

Obviously, my ill-fated remark was more on aerodynamics: less a proven system to land autonomously without tail on a carrier.

Except that it did it seven years ago. Boeing's still hasn't. So even from a aerodynamic standpoint I don't see how it works. Also the MQ-25A will be the first butterfly tail on a carrier. So that's not really proven either.
 

TomcatViP

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I have watched the videos till my eyes burnt and I swore that nobody serious would be confident that the design was inherently safe...
Gremlins were there IMOHO. I mean some other design like the A320 have their fare share of them and still fly commercially... and crash.

Butterfly is also fairy easy to understand. The bad point is that it's draggy not unsafe (draggy without FBW and relaxed stability).
 

TomS

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[...]Also the MQ-25A will be the first butterfly tail on a carrier. So that's not really proven either.
Supermarine type 508 was tested on HMS Eagle.
View attachment 634367
Image found here: https://www.iwm.org.uk/collections/item/object/205187767

The French Navy also used the butterfly tailed CM.175 Zephyr as their primary carrier trainer for quite a while.

 

_Del_

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:rolleyes:

... I think you've got a point. My bad.

Obviously, my ill-fated remark was more on aerodynamics: less a proven system to land autonomously without tail on a carrier.

Except that it did it seven years ago. Boeing's still hasn't. So even from a aerodynamic standpoint I don't see how it works. Also the MQ-25A will be the first butterfly tail on a carrier. So that's not really proven either.

I think it was mostly a victim of shifting priorities (rightly or wrongly), and while I think an X-47C style UCAV would have been worth quite a bit more for naval aviation and justifying the existence of the carrier fleet, I wouldn't close the door on the idea that there were probably technical difficulties to overcome, yet.

We've landed a C-130 and a U-2 on a carrier before. The C-130 wasn't selected to replace the C-2, and the U-2 won't be providing carrier-borne ISR. Possible and feasible don't directly translate to useful and better.

I'm pretty sure the Boeing product is going to have an easier road to get aboard and aloft at higher gross-weights, and probably will have better margins in bad weather and chop, too. Just the nature of having a tail gives it those advantages.

Can a flying wing design overcome the obstacles and be operationally useful? I am sure it could with time and money.

And again, I tend to agree that it would have been worth it. But I don't know that the test program demonstrated enough to conclude that.
 

sferrin

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I have watched the videos till my eyes burnt and I swore that nobody serious would be confident that the design was inherently safe...
Gremlins were there IMOHO. I mean some other design like the A320 have their fare share of them and still fly commercially... and crash.

Butterfly is also fairy easy to understand. The bad point is that it's draggy not unsafe (draggy without FBW and relaxed stability).

Tailless is the way of the future for stealth. You overcome the gremlins by trying to ignore the problem. Just sayin'.
 

sferrin

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[...]Also the MQ-25A will be the first butterfly tail on a carrier. So that's not really proven either.
Supermarine type 508 was tested on HMS Eagle.
View attachment 634367
Image found here: https://www.iwm.org.uk/collections/item/object/205187767

The French Navy also used the butterfly tailed CM.175 Zephyr as their primary carrier trainer for quite a while.


Honestly I had trouble even thinking of any military jets with a butterfly tail, other than the YF-23 and Magister. Didn't realize there was a carrier version of the latter.
 

aonestudio

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Mark Nankivil

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Good Day All -

I was over near Mid-America a few weeks ago and found the MQ-25 partially out of the hangar so took a pic thru the fence. First time I have seen it with the refueling pod on. Also note the upper surface spoiler and it appears the right butterfly tail surface is not mounted.

Enjoy the Day! Mark
 

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TomcatViP

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Service leaders announced last week they want to base a squadron of 20 MQ-25A Stingray tanker drones, which leaders say will revolutionize carrier air wings, at Naval Base Ventura County in Point Mugu, California. The base is about 65 miles west of Los Angeles.


Also
 

fightingirish

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Josh_TN

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I just assumed in a tanker configuration that the pod would be counter balanced by a drop tank on the other side. I assume the buddy store for this flight is empty for the first time out.
 

TomcatViP

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