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"US/FRG" VG V/STOL Program: Boeing/EWR 360, Republic/EWR A400 AVS

overscan (PaulMM)

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A joint US-German VSTOL fighter project. Here we have a 3 view of an early configuration and an isometric cutaway of a later version with modified air intakes.
 

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Matej

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Equipped with Rolls-Royce/Allison XJ-99 lift engines and TVC nozzle, parts of which were later used in RB.199.
 

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sferrin

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Matej said:
Equipped with Rolls-Royce/Allison XJ-99 lift engines and TVC nozzle, parts of which were later used in RB.199.

There's an issue of Airforce Magazine from the 80's that has some info on that XJ-99. Don't recall the issue but it had a picture looking into the front end of a turbofan on the front cover. They gave the specs as 9000lbs of thrust with a weight of 450lbs for a T:W of 20 to 1.
 

uk 75

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Further to the pictures produced on this subject, I have a bit more information to offer, though need help with some German magazines of the period.

Apparently both Boeing and then Fairchild Republic were involved with this project.

Initially Boeing seems to have been the partner, as an early drawing in a US magazine/Flight International shows a three view similar to the Boeing TFX bid.

Later the project evolved in three clear stages

AVS with a single box like mounting on the fuselage for its two thrust engines

AVS with separated out mountings for the thrust engines

A400, the final version which is curvier and usually shown in two photos published about 1967. A model of this design is in a Museum in Germany.

What I would like to find is some copies of Flug Revue or similar German mags which show the earliest design ( a drawing of which did crop up in a US mag) which has conventional side engines like a Vigilante, but also has the swing wings and flip out jets.

The aircraft had no clear US requirement, though the German AF needed it to replace the F104 in the nuclear strike role.

UK 75
 

uk 75

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I dont know whether anyone has a collection of Flug Revue or Flieger magazines from the period 1967-68, but I need help finding a picture.

Some years ago I was lucky enough to get a bound edition of 1967-68 magazines in London, but the bag with them in was nicked in a pub (some unlucky nerk thought it was a laptop!). I remember in the back pages of one of them a black and white photo of the US German AVS swing wing plane.

What was interesting was that this was not one of the drawings/photos which have appeared on this site of the two versions with engines mounted above the fuselage. No, this one looked like a Vigilante/F111 with ordinary side mounted engines, but still with the vstol swing outs and swing wings. The plane looked very cool. I wonder if it was a Republic or Boeing design which pre-dated the FRG US effort.

Can anyone post a pic like this? It may also have appeared Stateside?

UK 75
 

richard

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Hello !
It is the Republic-EWR AVS ,predecessor of the EWR-Fairchild A 400
The A 400 had dorsal intakes (3 different layout )
 

overscan (PaulMM)

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New scan of last AVS design.
 

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uk 75

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This overlaps with a number of other threads, but I am trying to tease out info on Boeing and Republic swing wing/VTOL fighter bombers in the 1964-7 timeframe, which coincided with the later US/FRG AVS project already covered on a separate thread. I have seen a model of a Boeing aircraft which looks like AVS, but is not. There is also a list of so-called ADAM designs in an old German magazine which covers a whole host of projects.

UK 75
 

Antonio

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There is also a list of so-called ADAM designs in an old German magazine which covers a whole host of projects

any chance to have a look at it? ;)
 

overscan (PaulMM)

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If you stretch the timescale to 1970, how about this model from a NASA document?

Looks a lot like later US - German studies in some areas.
 

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Jemiba

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Here are 2 pictures of Republic/EWR proposals, which could be identical to the
NASA models.
(from Aviation Week, May 1967)
 

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uk 75

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I love this site. Thank you, thank you. I have been after this stuff for lord knows how long

Uk 75
 

uk 75

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I will try and find the list of ADAM projects. It came from a German magazine called Fliegerrevue in about 1966 or so, but my cuttings are all over the place, so it will take a while to track down. Fliegerrevue is brilliant but hard to find.

UK 75
 

Jemiba

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Another Republic VTOL fighter design with VG wings :
(from Aviation Week 1965 10-17)
 

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elmayerle

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flateric said:
More pics of third configuration

Hmm, is it just me or does this configuration resemble the vstol version of the Type 583?
 

overscan (PaulMM)

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AVS info from Flight:

Article on demise of AVS


EWR NKF

Dr Schroder, West German Defence Minister, on his visit to the MoD in Whitehall on Monday this week, was expected to sound out British reactions to dropping the BAC (Preston) VG project and joining in the NKF. The specification outlined by the West German Defence Ministry calls for STOL—in little more than 1,000ft at full gross weight—and a high subsonic speed on the deck. Speed at altitude is to be over Mach 1.5. Various roles which the aircraft is to perform include air defence, close air support and interdiction. The last role would be performed by a two seat aircraft which would also serve as a conversion trainer.

The two main German industry groups, VFW in the north and EWR in the south, are making studies independently. Proposals are expected in March. While it is expected that a joint proposal will be submitted, individual proposals may also be received by the Defence Ministry. VFW's work on the requirement centres upon possible developments of the at present experimental VAK 191B V/STOL aircraft, a joint project with Fiat in Italy. EWR's study is essentially a scaled down AVS, with one seat and a single engine. While retaining the swing-wings of the AVS, pop-out lift engines of the bigger US-German project are deleted. Main-engine thrust vectoring by means of a swivelling jet-pipe nozzle is, however, believed to be an AVS feature retained.

 

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uk 75

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The saga of the AVS fascinates me. From what I have found out so far there seem to be a number of distinct versions, reading from the last first:

A 400: The curvy version which later became the more conventional NKF predecessor to Tornado.

AVS (A300?): In this version the engines had been split at the back above the fuselage.

AVS (A200?): In this version the engines were paired together in a single box at the back above the fuselage.

AVS (early versions) First versions of the AVS seem to show an F111 type aircraft with underwing side engines.

Sources refer to Fairchild Republic taking over the US end of the programme from Boeing. Maybe Buttler's new book in October on US fighters will shed more light on the evolution.

UK 75
 

overscan (PaulMM)

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From UKVG files at National Archives, AIR20/11761

AVS Specs

RVTO: 265nm, 2000lb, internal fuel
STO: 235nm, 2000lb, internal fuel
Max warload: 16,000lb
Speed: Mach 1.2 (SL) Mach 1.6 (height)
Ferry range: 2600nm

Auto terrain following, LLLTV, laser rangefinder.

Development costs: £250 million
Unit cost: £1.5 million (production run of 500)

From USAF presentation & ZE/110/04 (Mintech, 24 Oct 1967)
 

Jemiba

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And just found : One more artist's impression of the AVS proposal,
from Flight Review, March 1968, unfortunately with very little further
information :
 

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uk 75

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More on the AVS.

Originally Boeing was the US partner on this project, and presumably hoped to get some work to make up for losing TFX. I am not able to find out anywhere why Boeing were replaced by Fairchild Republic.
Intriguingly the FR proposal in the 70s for a VSTOL carrier fighter seems to derive from their AVS work, but again no info.

UK 75
 

overscan (PaulMM)

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Better version of this known picture.

Source:

Flying Review International, August 1968
 

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Barrington Bond

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Found some patents which I believe are for the swing out engines.

Surely these things would create huge drag when deploying ???

Regards,
Barry
 

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alertken

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uk75/#26: Originally Boeing was the US partner on this project, and presumably hoped to get some work to make up for losing TFX. I am not able to find out anywhere why Boeing were replaced by Fairchild Republic. Start at: http://www.vstol.org/GermanVSTOLFighters.pdf

It is legitimate for armchair contemplators like us to take known events, and kite some plausible links and causes. So: try this. It's 1964:
a) Boeing has lost TFX to GD/Grumman; that would have been built in Wichita, empty now (relatively) after B-47/B-52.
b) New W.German (FRG) Aero-industry is well-established in fabrication (F-104G &tc), but has as yet done little original R&D. It has footled with V/STOL, erratically, since 1958, part-funded by US MWDP/Paris, who also stimulated NBMR.3 V/STOL supersonic fighter-bomber, intended to replace MWDP/NATO FIAT/Dornier G.91. France scuppered that mid-64, by demanding anyMirage; UK, peevish, went off to do P.1154(RAF). What to do with new FRG-Aero (and FIAT), expensively tooled by US MSP, 1955-57?
c) NATO Battle Plans in disarray: WarPac IRBMs/SSMs reduce runways' utility. At what point does NATO utilise Theatre nukes?
d) FRG seethes as US/UK cheerily discuss such things, oblivious to the "Theatre's" landlord. Hello! Do I have a say in this? Well, No. No FRG finger on nuclear triggers.
e) 1963-65: much political noise about Multilateral (Nuclear) Force, or UK's spoiler, Atlantic Nuclear Force. Notions of mixed-manned Units (trialled on a US DDG as prelude to surface-launched Polaris A3), and of pooling of assets, inc. TSR.2 RAFG Squadrons.

So: great confusion. Do we invest in anything below Counter-Value Armageddon?

DoD funds Boeing mid-64 to study (to be AVS), in part as a sop, post-TFX (their most recent fighter had been a Peashooter). Much FRG/US/NATO money for new FRG teams to play at verticality. As part of UK's US-credit-package, starting 27/2/64 (Tory Govt.) with F-4K, expanded April,65 to inc. C-130K/F-4M/F-111K, "offset" incs. hefty US funding for RR/Allison/M.A.N XJ99 liftjet, and FRG/US money for RR/BSEL/M.A.N swivelling/vectoring/lifting RB145/153/193...with no evident US/UK berth.

In 1965 NATO settles on extension, even from Norge to Turk, of the dual-key scheme applicable since May,1958 to nukes in RAFG Canberra B(I)6/8. We all fly for Saceur, we all participate in his planning/targetting. Ditch MLF/ANF. FRG has its finger, equal with US/UK, and better than France (telling US 1/7/66 to scarper, all gone by 4/67). Kestrel Tripartite Evaluation Squadron (inc. Luftwaffe and USAF), 1/4-30/11/65, tells us that V/STOL has payload-range, maintainability, and expense issues.

Fairchild, having taken Hiller in 1964, adds Republic in 1965: idle, bored. Boeing launches 737, mostly to be fabricated in...Wichita. US SST contest now down to Boeing v Lockheed (2707 selected 31/12/66). (Buggins' turn), Boeing put their sweat to better use. Early-68, so does FRG Govt, dumping V/STOL for NKF-75, by July forming a team of 6 Nations/7 Air Arms on short-ish/TOL, very grunty (to be) Tornado.

V/STOL was killed by the exact engine technology that made it possible: all that vectoring and swivelling led to nozzles, power, longevity, maintainability, economy, that permitted short-ish ops from autobahns: what Sweden and Switzerland did with early jet types, UK, FRG, Italy could do with (to be RB199).

Just a thought.
 

Jemiba

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Interesting find, haven't seen the concept for the completely tilting cruise/lift engines on the VJ-101E before !
Was there a complete drawing/3-view in Luft/Raumfahrttechnik ?
 
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Barrington Bond

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Afraid not, I only copied the page that was on - there was a diagram of the rotating nozzle but I was in a hurry and didn't get that page.

Regards,
Barry
 

Barrington Bond

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Woo, colour!

From From Above and Beyond the Encyclopedia of Aviation and Space Sciences Vol13 Tra to Win

Regards,
Barry
 

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This Republic shop model shows the 1967 vintage of AVS, as envisioned by the Fairchild/Republic side of the partnership (same as in the May, 1967 Aviation Week article).

Later AVS designs from 1968, such as the color scan above, were mostly influenced by the EWR team in Germany, with a focus on minimizing hot gas recirculation by moving the main engine intakes to above the wing.

In the final layout of AVS (which became the A-400 in 1968 after the end of US participation), these intakes were moved further back, using the wing apex and VG glove areas to further shield them from hot exhaust at ground level.
 

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I believe (with reasonable certainty) that the factory model below is of the elusive Boeing-EWR 360, the first product of the US/FRG VSTOL fighter cooperation. However, I would appreciate some confirmation in the form of a drawing, rendering or other document.

I understand Boeing had set aside about 30 engineers for about 12 months in support of this project, with most of them going to Munich. That is a sizable investment, with nary a trace of this effort left anywhere.

The model shows all the complexity of later AVS designs: variable geometry, plus four lift jets, plus two main engines - with vectoring thrust - and a crew of two. Not introduced yet were the retractable, gimbal-swiveling pairs of lift jets favored by later engineering teams. What could possibly go wrong?
 

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A couple of small pictures from the Cradle of Aviation Museum, showing the late version of AVS on a Republic stand.

Fairchild-Republic would later use much of its AVS engineering know-how in developing the FR-150, a VTOL SCS fighter proposal. The FR-150 was basically a "half-AVS", with one vectored-thrust main engine and two, single pop-out swiveling lift engines, for a total of three engines instead of six.
 

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Antonio

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Great contribution!. Thanks
 

uk 75

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Circle 5

I am blown away. I have been searching for years for these elusive American models having seen artwork and models of other versions of the AVS in magazines and in the German Museum in Munich.

Now all I need is to get some decent three view drawings so I can get me some models made, as the originals are rarer than hen's teeth. Help gratefully appreciated.

UK 75
 
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UK 75 -- Yes, the German museum has some good models of these projects, including the big skeleton model shown below. They are likely to have archival copies of the documents you are looking for.
 

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