TAI TF-X / Milli Muharip Uçak MMU Kaan

Combat-Master said:
1772964875020.png
Click to expand...
The purple (and blue) areas should house sensors.

1772964817923.png
Click to expand...
View of landing-gear bay and sideweapons bay which still has structural components.
 
Last edited:
Combat-Master said:
View attachment 804683
View attachment 804682

Some screen grabs from -
https://twitter.com/x/status/2030556809543500210
View: https://x.com/TUSAS_TR/status/2030556809543500210?s=20
Click to expand...
The leading-edge sensor housings look quite interesting. Any insight into what they contain? We've been guesstimating that the trailing-edge wingtips, along with the leading-edge tips of the vertical stabilizers, are likely associated with EW systems.

1000084872.jpg

Could it be that the leading edge housings accommodate some sort of N036L-equivalent arrays like the Su-57?

Edit: Nope, they're clearly for an AN/ASQ-239 equivalent, given the similar placement on the F-35.

1000084882.jpg 1000084883.jpg

I'm a sucker for towed decoys, I just wish they'd developed one for the Kaan :(
 

Attachments

  • 1000084876.png
    1000084876.png
    347.4 KB · Views: 56
  • 1000084875.png
    1000084875.png
    353 KB · Views: 62
Last edited:
snne said:
The leading-edge sensor housings look quite interesting. Any insight into what they contain? We've been guesstimating that the trailing-edge wingtips, along with the leading-edge tips of the vertical stabilizers, are likely associated with EW systems.

View attachment 804692

Could it be that the leading edge housings accommodate some sort of N036L-equivalent arrays like the Su-57?

Edit: Nope, they're clearly for an AN/ASQ-239 equivalent, given the similar placement on the F-35.

View attachment 804701View attachment 804702

I'm a sucker for towed decoys, I just wish they'd developed one for the Kaan :(
Click to expand...
There will be a towed decoy
 
Combat-Master said:
Not that closely then; Bilkent University (Discovery), Tubitak and Aselsan - 7 years old video
Click to expand...
That’s exactly the point:

1) I remember when this was revealed; at that point, Tübitak was essentially working on a demonstrator project. They are an R&D institute, that is what they do. But any technology that is eventually serially produced and fielded is picked up and developed by Aselsan.

2) They never stated that this was intended as a stepping stone for Kaan’s sensor suite. We have also never seen/heard towed decoys mentioned by officials or shown in any slides.

1000085102.jpg

Just because they worked on this technology and conducted R&D on it at one point (7 years ago in fact!) does not mean it will eventually end up on the Kaan. We also have not had a clear view of the underside of the fuselage, but from what we have seen so far, there is no door or opening suitable for it there.

Besides, why are you always so rude and confrontational?
 
Last edited:
snne said:
That’s exactly the point:

1) I remember when this was revealed; at that point, Tübitak was essentially working on a demonstrator project. They are an R&D institute, that is what they do. But any technology that is eventually serially produced and fielded is picked up and developed by Aselsan.

2) They never stated that this was intended as a stepping stone for Kaan’s sensor suite. We have also never seen/heard towed decoys mentioned by officials or shown in any slides.

View attachment 804895

Just because they worked on this technology and conducted R&D on it at one point (7 years ago in fact!) does not mean it will eventually end up on the Kaan. We also have not had a clear view of the underside of the fuselage, but from what we have seen so far, there is no door or opening suitable for it there.

Besides, why are you always so rude and confrontational?
Click to expand...

Dude, creating points because you hadn't of heard of this project is low. Just admit and move on, simples.

You can read all about it here, now you know; https://www.aa.com.tr/tr/bilim-teknoloji/savas-ucaklari-tehditleri-yerli-cozumle-asacak/1165849
 
snne said:
How do you know that? I've been following this program closely from the start, and I've never seen it mentioned anywhere.
Click to expand...
Combat-Master said:
Not that closely then; Bilkent University (Discovery), Tubitak and Aselsan - 7 years old video
View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MWYehyqq02U

View attachment 804894
Click to expand...
Well that's a great find, however that isn't exactly an ASELSAN project.

Bilkent Mechanical Engineering department has this graduation project where you collab. with industry. This includes defence sector too.

Long story short, this was their graduation project determined by ASELSAN, ASELSAN doesn't use *this* product itself, but probably used this as a starting stone for their towed decoy system
 
Combat-Master said:
Dude, creating points because you hadn't of heard of this project is low. Just admit and move on, simples.

You can read all about it here, now you know; https://www.aa.com.tr/tr/bilim-teknoloji/savas-ucaklari-tehditleri-yerli-cozumle-asacak/1165849
Click to expand...
1000085112.gif

Anadolu Agency may be state-run, but its employees are ordinary journalists who can make mistakes in their reporting, and have done so on numerous occasions.

The article you linked only mentions at the very end that it is being developed for the Kaan, and it does so without directly quoting anyone. In any case, that article (reporting on an R&D project of all things) is seven years old.

In fact - I remember well when Tübitak first revealed the project, the Kaan was still in the Preliminary Design Phase. Many things have changed since then, so it is not written in stone that this technology will eventually be integrated into the Kaan. We simply do not have any updates on it that warrants us considering it a part of Kaan's suite considering how it has never been mentioned once as part of the sensor suite ever since.

Do not try to be snarky and condescending as you often do and quote me later if it does end up on the Kaan. Personally, I would say there is about a 40/60 chance that we will see it on the aircraft, especially since it has never once been mentioned as part of Kaan’s broader sensor suite during all the publicity around the program since your article was published. That said, I would not be surprised if it does appear either.

You also have to understand that the Kaan, like any engineering project, has its limits. It cannot be perfect in every conceivable scenario, especially since it ultimately needs to be produced and inducted in large numbers. Old, never again mentioned R&D doesn't equal fielded system, especially with no physical provisions seen on the airframe.
 
Last edited:
Under the KAAN National Munition Integration Project signed in 2025; integration efforts are underway for the Gökdoğan, Bozdoğan, Gökhan, SOM-J/M missiles into internal stations, and for the HGK, KGK, SOM missiles into external stations.

Source: TÜBİTAK 2025 Activity Report

https://twitter.com/x/status/2038540650098921691
View: https://x.com/Catfishtheblues/status/2038540650098921691?s=20


No HGK or KGK for internal stores, meaning internal weapons bay size not comparable to F-35 ?

HGK is pretty much Turkish equivalent JDAM, for the Mk-82/83/84 GPB
1774862772342.png
KGK as above with glide kit
1774862813170.png
 
Combat-Master said:
Under the KAAN National Munition Integration Project signed in 2025; integration efforts are underway for the Gökdoğan, Bozdoğan, Gökhan, SOM-J/M missiles into internal stations, and for the HGK, KGK, SOM missiles into external stations.

Source: TÜBİTAK 2025 Activity Report

https://twitter.com/x/status/2038540650098921691
View: https://x.com/Catfishtheblues/status/2038540650098921691?s=20


No HGK or KGK for internal stores, meaning internal weapons bay size not comparable to F-35 ?

HGK is pretty much Turkish equivalent JDAM, for the Mk-82/83/84 GPB
View attachment 807268
KGK as above with glide kit
View attachment 807269
Click to expand...
Turns out they stuck with the initial designated internal pylon loading requirement of a 1000 lb (which was criticized heavily) and didn’t learn anything from the F-22's case… :( Belly bays are just as shallow too, which also means no room for 2000 lb class payloads :confused:

1000087154.jpg
1000087156.jpg

The belly bays also look shorter to me compared to other 5th gen designs, only a bit longer than the side bays (which can carry only WVRAAMs according to @paralay 's estimate) = belly bays only as long as the Gökdoğan/Gökbora BVRAAMs (Although the Gökhan is estimated to be longer than the Gökbora) :rolleyes:. But yeah, let’s wait and see, we can't prove that yet.

J-20 Side/Belly IWB length ratio
1000087152.jpg 		Kaan P1 Side/Belly IWB length ratio
1000087153.png 		F-22 Side/Belly IWB length ratio
1000087155.jpg

Kaan’s side IWBs are actually fairly deep through the mid section and longer than what you see on other heavy 5th gen fighters, but they taper off toward the front and rear, and the support bearings in the middle eat into that deeper space.
 
Last edited:
snne said:
Turns out they stuck with the initial designated internal pylon loading requirement of a 1000 lb (which was criticized heavily) and didn’t learn anything from the F-22's case… :( Belly bays are just as shallow too, which also means no room for 2000 lb class payloads :confused:
Click to expand...
The math ain't mathin. SOM-J is around 550kg, meaning it is at least 100kg heavier than the 1000lb (~450kg) limit. SOM-J is around 4 meters; it is noticeably longer than Mk84 and has a similar width. It is physically impossible to fit SOM-J into KAAN's weapon bays if they don't have similar dimensions to the F-35's weapons bays.
 
Last edited:
Nart said:
The math ain't mathin. SOM-J is around 550kg, meaning it is at least 100kg heavier than the 1000lb (~450kg) limit. SOM-J is around 4 meters, it is noticeably longer than Mk84 and has similar dimensions. It is physically impossible to fit SOM-J into KAAN's weapon bays if they don't have similar dimensions to the F-35's weapons bays.
Click to expand...
Yep, that is a good example as to why this doesn't make sense at all and we’ll have to wait it out to see how it develops. But we’ve also had our first look at the door-less belly IWB at an angle, along with multiple views of the side IWB space of the tech demonstrator, and their length/space don’t align with how these long/heavy munitions are being adapted for the internal bays, especially since the requirement has always been 1000lb-class payload carriage.
 
Jackonicko said:
Our take on Kaan, FWIW

warsight.com

TAI makes progress with Kaan fifth-gen fighter prototypes

Turkish Aerospace is preparing for the first flight of a production-standard version of Türkiye's Kaan fifth-generation fighter around May-June 2026.
warsight.com warsight.com
Click to expand...
The delivery timescales in the article are a bit off, but otherwise it’s pleasantly apparent from the writing that the research is better done than in most pieces about this project.

Additionally/FYI, the Q4-2028 and Q1/2-2029 delivery dates are personal estimates from the higher ups (like the head of the Defence Industry Agency, TAI, or even the president of Turkey himself). TAI’s General Managers in particular love giving these off-the-cuff timelines in interviews based on the situation at the time, especially given how often they’re asked due to the urgent need for these planes. The only official date we have regarding the first delivery is that it’s (always been) planned for 2028.

Initially, 20 B10 aircraft were slated for delivery that year, but that figure was later reduced to 10, and I don’t recall that change ever being walked back. Happy to be proven wrong though :)

Regardless of how many aircraft are actually delivered in ’28, the first block (20 planes) will come with software-blocked IWBs and will have to carry payloads externally until a software update arrives in 2030. So I think the dates are fairly realistic (except for the engine, those are a bit tight realistically, but they need to be pushed through).
 
Last edited:
New prototypes, designated DP-1 through DP-4, are being prepared in addition to P0/GTU-0 (tech demo that flew twice), P1 (first real prototype, set to fly soon), and the static test fuselage.

TAI Deputy GM Prof. Dr. Fahrettin Öztürk:

...

Now, what we call DP-1 (Development Project 1) is currently being prepared; DP-2 and DP-3 are also in preparation, with DP-4 following behind.

There are also two static aircraft. In total, around 8 prototype efforts are currently underway.

...
Click to expand...
https://twitter.com/x/status/2041891144968090020
View: https://x.com/i/status/2041891144968090020
 
Last edited:
TwoStep said:
Hearing July for a first flight for Kaan P1 now.
Click to expand...
I mean… this isn’t new - they revealed this months ago, and since then it’s been nothing but reassurance that there aren’t any delays. They also gave a May to June window, so a flight in May is still very much on the table given that the prototype is pretty much ready and could theoretically still achieve a FF by the end of May.


Guys, I think recycling old content like the same vague simulator footage (that doesn’t even reveal anything new), and repeating same old news over and over again should be avoided as much as possible...

Combat-Master said:
KAAN engineering development simulator, over 130 simulated flight hours have been accumulated
https://twitter.com/x/status/1668595260514095106
View: https://twitter.com/gooksel/status/1668595260514095106?s=20

View attachment 701450
Click to expand...
On-topic discussions are another matter (and are entirely justified), but these kinds of recycled content is just a waste of everyone's time and attention.
 
Last edited:
snne said:
I mean… this isn’t new - they revealed this months ago, and since then it’s been nothing but reassurance that there aren’t any delays. They also gave a May to June window, so a flight in May is still very much on the table given that the prototype is pretty much ready and could theoretically still achieve a FF by the end of May.


Guys, I think recycling old content like the same vague simulator footage (that doesn’t even reveal anything new), and repeating same old news over and over again should be avoided as much as possible...


On-topic discussions are another matter (and are entirely justified), but these kinds of recycled content is just a waste of everyone's time and attention.
Click to expand...
Thanks for the reply and the reminder..

I agree that reposted content can be an issue, but I don’t think this falls into that category. The footage shows HUD symbology we haven’t seen before, along with updates to the engineering simulator that are worth examining at least for some of us, including myself.

There are several indicators suggesting this is new material and even if it isn’t entirely new, it’s clearly not the same footage previously shared. It was certainly taken at a later date, featuring the aforementioned updates to the sim (new glareshield, symbology like MCAS & GCAS etc.). It may not be groundbreaking, but it still offers insight into how the aircraft is evolving.

That said, I could’ve provided more context when I initially shared the post.
 

Similar threads

Back
Top Bottom