TAI TF-X / Milli Muharip Uçak MMU Kaan

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Combat-Master said:
Not that closely then; Bilkent University (Discovery), Tubitak and Aselsan - 7 years old video
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That’s exactly the point:

1) I remember when this was revealed; at that point, Tübitak was essentially working on a demonstrator project. They are an R&D institute, that is what they do. But any technology that is eventually serially produced and fielded is picked up and developed by Aselsan.

2) They never stated that this was intended as a stepping stone for Kaan’s sensor suite. We have also never seen/heard towed decoys mentioned by officials or shown in any slides.

Just because they worked on this technology and conducted R&D on it at one point (7 years ago in fact!) does not mean it will eventually end up on the Kaan. We also have not had a clear view of the underside of the fuselage, but from what we have seen so far, there is no door or opening suitable for it there.

Besides, why are you always so rude and confrontational?
 

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snne said:
That’s exactly the point:

1) I remember when this was revealed; at that point, Tübitak was essentially working on a demonstrator project. They are an R&D institute, that is what they do. But any technology that is eventually serially produced and fielded is picked up and developed by Aselsan.

2) They never stated that this was intended as a stepping stone for Kaan’s sensor suite. We have also never seen/heard towed decoys mentioned by officials or shown in any slides.

View attachment 804895

Just because they worked on this technology and conducted R&D on it at one point (7 years ago in fact!) does not mean it will eventually end up on the Kaan. We also have not had a clear view of the underside of the fuselage, but from what we have seen so far, there is no door or opening suitable for it there.

Besides, why are you always so rude and confrontational?
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Dude, creating points because you hadn't of heard of this project is low. Just admit and move on, simples.

You can read all about it here, now you know; https://www.aa.com.tr/tr/bilim-teknoloji/savas-ucaklari-tehditleri-yerli-cozumle-asacak/1165849
 
snne said:
How do you know that? I've been following this program closely from the start, and I've never seen it mentioned anywhere.
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Combat-Master said:
Not that closely then; Bilkent University (Discovery), Tubitak and Aselsan - 7 years old video
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Well that's a great find, however that isn't exactly an ASELSAN project.

Bilkent Mechanical Engineering department has this graduation project where you collab. with industry. This includes defence sector too.

Long story short, this was their graduation project determined by ASELSAN, ASELSAN doesn't use *this* product itself, but probably used this as a starting stone for their towed decoy system
 
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Combat-Master said:
Dude, creating points because you hadn't of heard of this project is low. Just admit and move on, simples.

You can read all about it here, now you know; https://www.aa.com.tr/tr/bilim-teknoloji/savas-ucaklari-tehditleri-yerli-cozumle-asacak/1165849
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1000085112.gif

Anadolu Agency may be state-run, but its employees are ordinary journalists who can make mistakes in their reporting, and have done so on numerous occasions.

The article you linked only mentions at the very end that it is being developed for the Kaan, and it does so without directly quoting anyone. In any case, that article (reporting on an R&D project of all things) is seven years old.

In fact - I remember well when Tübitak first revealed the project, the Kaan was still in the Preliminary Design Phase. Many things have changed since then, so it is not written in stone that this technology will eventually be integrated into the Kaan. We simply do not have any updates on it that warrants us considering it a part of Kaan's suite considering how it has never been mentioned once as part of the sensor suite ever since.

Do not try to be snarky and condescending as you often do and quote me later if it does end up on the Kaan. Personally, I would say there is about a 40/60 chance that we will see it on the aircraft, especially since it has never once been mentioned as part of Kaan’s broader sensor suite during all the publicity around the program since your article was published. That said, I would not be surprised if it does appear either.

You also have to understand that the Kaan, like any engineering project, has its limits. It cannot be perfect in every conceivable scenario, especially since it ultimately needs to be produced and inducted in large numbers. Old, never again mentioned R&D doesn't equal fielded system, especially with no physical provisions seen on the airframe.
 
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Under the KAAN National Munition Integration Project signed in 2025; integration efforts are underway for the Gökdoğan, Bozdoğan, Gökhan, SOM-J/M missiles into internal stations, and for the HGK, KGK, SOM missiles into external stations.

Source: TÜBİTAK 2025 Activity Report

https://twitter.com/x/status/2038540650098921691
View: https://x.com/Catfishtheblues/status/2038540650098921691?s=20


No HGK or KGK for internal stores, meaning internal weapons bay size not comparable to F-35 ?

HGK is pretty much Turkish equivalent JDAM, for the Mk-82/83/84 GPB
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KGK as above with glide kit
1774862813170.png
 
Combat-Master said:
Under the KAAN National Munition Integration Project signed in 2025; integration efforts are underway for the Gökdoğan, Bozdoğan, Gökhan, SOM-J/M missiles into internal stations, and for the HGK, KGK, SOM missiles into external stations.
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Turns out they stuck with the initial designated internal pylon loading requirement of a 1000 lb (which was criticized heavily) and didn’t learn anything from the F-22's case… :( Belly bays are just as shallow too, which also means no room for 2000 lb class payloads :confused:

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The belly bays also look shorter to me compared to other 5th gen designs, only a bit longer than the side bays (which can carry only WVRAAMs according to @paralay 's estimate) = belly bays only as long as the Gökdoğan/Gökbora BVRAAMs (Although the Gökhan is estimated to be longer than the Gökbora) :rolleyes:. But yeah, let’s wait and see, we can't prove that yet.

J-20 Side/Belly IWB length ratio
1000087152.jpg 		Kaan P1 Side/Belly IWB length ratio
1000087153.png 		F-22 Side/Belly IWB length ratio
1000087155.jpg

Kaan’s side IWBs are actually fairly deep through the mid section and longer than what you see on other heavy 5th gen fighters, but they taper off toward the front and rear, and the support bearings in the middle eat into that deeper space.
 
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snne said:
Turns out they stuck with the initial designated internal pylon loading requirement of a 1000 lb (which was criticized heavily) and didn’t learn anything from the F-22's case… :( Belly bays are just as shallow too, which also means no room for 2000 lb class payloads :confused:
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The math ain't mathin. SOM-J is around 550kg, meaning it is at least 100kg heavier than the 1000lb (~450kg) limit. SOM-J is around 4 meters; it is noticeably longer than Mk84 and has a similar width. It is physically impossible to fit SOM-J into KAAN's weapon bays if they don't have similar dimensions to the F-35's weapons bays.
 
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Nart said:
The math ain't mathin. SOM-J is around 550kg, meaning it is at least 100kg heavier than the 1000lb (~450kg) limit. SOM-J is around 4 meters, it is noticeably longer than Mk84 and has similar dimensions. It is physically impossible to fit SOM-J into KAAN's weapon bays if they don't have similar dimensions to the F-35's weapons bays.
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Yep, that is a good example as to why this doesn't make sense at all and we’ll have to wait it out to see how it develops. But we’ve also had our first look at the door-less belly IWB at an angle, along with multiple views of the side IWB space of the tech demonstrator, and their length/space don’t align with how these long/heavy munitions are being adapted for the internal bays, especially since the requirement has always been 1000lb-class payload carriage.
 
Jackonicko said:
Our take on Kaan, FWIW

https://warsight.com/2026/03/19/tai-makes-progress-with-kaan-prototypes/
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The delivery timescales in the article are a bit off, but otherwise it’s pleasantly apparent from the writing that the research is better done than in most pieces about this project.

Additionally/FYI, the Q4-2028 and Q1/2-2029 delivery dates are personal estimates from the higher ups (like the head of the Defence Industry Agency, TAI, or even the president of Turkey himself). TAI’s General Managers in particular love giving these off-the-cuff timelines in interviews based on the situation at the time, especially given how often they’re asked due to the urgent need for these planes. The only official date we have regarding the first delivery is that it’s (always been) planned for 2028.

Initially, 20 B10 aircraft were slated for delivery that year, but that figure was later reduced to 10, and I don’t recall that change ever being walked back. Happy to be proven wrong though :)

Regardless of how many aircraft are actually delivered in ’28, the first block (20 planes) will come with software-blocked IWBs and will have to carry payloads externally until a software update arrives in 2030. So I think the dates are fairly realistic (except for the engine, those are a bit tight realistically, but they need to be pushed through).
 
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New prototypes, designated DP-1 through DP-4, are being prepared in addition to P0/GTU-0 (tech demo that flew twice), P1 (first real prototype, set to fly soon), and the static test fuselage.

TAI Deputy GM Prof. Dr. Fahrettin Öztürk:

...

Now, what we call DP-1 (Development Project 1) is currently being prepared; DP-2 and DP-3 are also in preparation, with DP-4 following behind.

There are also two static aircraft. In total, around 8 prototype efforts are currently underway.

...
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https://twitter.com/x/status/2041891144968090020
View: https://x.com/i/status/2041891144968090020
 
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View from KAAN's simulator where we can see the new glareshield, instrumentation & symbology. Taken via Havelsan.
It's not super breaking, thought I'd share.
 

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TwoStep said:
Hearing July for a first flight for Kaan P1 now.
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I mean… this isn’t new - they revealed this months ago, and since then it’s been nothing but reassurance that there aren’t any delays. They also gave a May to June window, so a flight in May is still very much on the table given that the prototype is pretty much ready and could theoretically still achieve a FF by the end of May.

https://www.secretprojects.co.uk/threads/tai-tf-x-milli-muharip-uçak-mmu-kaan.13448/post-872840
Guys, I think recycling old content like the same vague simulator footage (that doesn’t even reveal anything new), and repeating same old news over and over again should be avoided as much as possible...

Combat-Master said:
KAAN engineering development simulator, over 130 simulated flight hours have been accumulated
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On-topic discussions are another matter (and are entirely justified), but these kinds of recycled content is just a waste of everyone's time and attention.
 
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snne said:
I mean… this isn’t new - they revealed this months ago, and since then it’s been nothing but reassurance that there aren’t any delays. They also gave a May to June window, so a flight in May is still very much on the table given that the prototype is pretty much ready and could theoretically still achieve a FF by the end of May.

https://www.secretprojects.co.uk/threads/tai-tf-x-milli-muharip-uçak-mmu-kaan.13448/post-872840
Guys, I think recycling old content like the same vague simulator footage (that doesn’t even reveal anything new), and repeating same old news over and over again should be avoided as much as possible...


On-topic discussions are another matter (and are entirely justified), but these kinds of recycled content is just a waste of everyone's time and attention.
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Thanks for the reply and the reminder..

I agree that reposted content can be an issue, but I don’t think this falls into that category. The footage shows HUD symbology we haven’t seen before, along with updates to the engineering simulator that are worth examining at least for some of us, including myself.

There are several indicators suggesting this is new material and even if it isn’t entirely new, it’s clearly not the same footage previously shared. It was certainly taken at a later date, featuring the aforementioned updates to the sim (new glareshield, symbology like MCAS & GCAS etc.). It may not be groundbreaking, but it still offers insight into how the aircraft is evolving.

That said, I could’ve provided more context when I initially shared the post.
 
Turns out TR Mechatronics have developed a 6 barreled 20mm gun for the Kaan and are going to display it next week at SAHA expo:

Fatih Çevik stated that they have a contract with TA(I) for the 6-barreled cannon, saying, "We are developing this system for the KAAN aircraft. Besides that, we are working on whether we can install alternatives on different platforms produced in Türkiye. Some are still in the initial stages, but we have a contract for KAAN and we are continuing to work on it."
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https://gdh.digital/haber/kaanin-milli-silahi-saha-2026da-vitrine-cikacak-xtv5jbpf9hg

View: https://youtu.be/q9iPdFIAg6c?si=ReVahG7N6auwmjFV
 
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Nart said:
I mean, they already showed it at IDEF 2025
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Yeah, but we weren’t sure whether it would be equipped with a 30mm cannon, as officials had suggested at the time, or if it would remain cannon-less like the J-20. (though the Chinese did perform tests on the aircraft)

Also, the booth in the photo belongs to Sarsılmaz, and the cannon shown was developed for the T129 Atak.

In addition, SARSILMAZ showcased its domestically produced 20mm cannon, designed for ATAK helicopters, and 12.7mm machine guns integrated into Hürkuş aircraft.
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https://www.sarsilmaz.com/en/new_detail/sarsilmaz-showcases-its-strength-at-teknofest
 
"Infrastructure activities for the testing of KAAN National Combat Aircraft’s Integrated Communication, Navigation and Identification System have been finalized." - 2025 ASELSAN Annual Report
 

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Combat-Master said:
"Infrastructure activities for the testing of KAAN National Combat Aircraft’s Integrated Communication, Navigation and Identification System have been finalized." - 2025 ASELSAN Annual Report
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Should've quoted this post below, lol

Here we see an actual ICNAIR Ka-band conformal SATCOM developed by Aselsan for the Kaan, displayed during IDEF ’25. This appears to be the system being tested in the image above.


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Waterballoon said:
Pfuuh, look at these Turks thinking they can into conformal antennas, amirite?

View attachment 779129
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snne said:
As expected, Toygun EOTS and Karat IRST will soon be tested onboard Kaan, following Kizilelma.

View: https://x.com/Defence_Turk/status/2050514518413836321?s=20
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What was not expected is that they are going to integrate Toygun-100 and Karat-100 - not the enhanced versions, so likely 200 series are not ready yet. I guess, at least the ball keeps rolling whilst enhanced versions are being worked on. Might be the case for FCR, MURAD for initial development. No word on the DIRCM, perhaps we may see a mockup of it at SAHA tomorrow ?
 
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Combat-Master said:
What was not expected is that they are going to integrate Toygun-100 and Karat-100 - not the enhanced versions, so likely 200 series are not ready yet. I guess, at least the ball keeps rolling whilst enhanced versions are being worked on. Might be the case for FCR, MURAD for initial development. No word on the DIRCM, perhaps we may see a mockup of it at SAHA tomorrow ?
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Perhaps, but as far as we know, everything’s going surprisingly well on the sensor development front so far, and they’ve had time to reflect on the testing results of Toygun/Karat-100. So even if there is a delay, it likely won’t be a major one.

MURAD-100A probably has almost no architectural commonality with the -600A of the BURFIS suite, so it doesn’t really make sense for them to integrate it in the meantime other than as an inaccurate weight placeholder. MURAD-100A is also fairly mature now, given that it has been under testing for at least two years (certainly longer, considering that’s when it began flying on an F-16), LRIP has begun, and Kizilelma is set to enter service this year with the MURAD radar, according to the Aselsan CEO.

At the moment, we simply don’t have enough data to base solid estimates on. But frankly, expectations around the “integration of downrated products” are just speculation for now, and it’s not like either of these would matter much when the serial production version of the Kaan with all the equipment integrated is scheduled to roll off the assembly line in 2027.
 
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Guys... this could be it.

At last, a procurement contract covering an undisclosed number of Kaan aircraft is scheduled to be signed between TA(I) and the Defense Industry Agency on May 6 at 13:45 local time during SAHA EXPO :p

We don't know if they're only formalizing previously stated procurement plans; but either way, this is a final move beyond the development contract into an official procurement contract.
 
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Combat-Master said:
Image taken by Yusuf Emir at SAHA Expo'2026 @ TAI stand | Internal and external mention store



https://twitter.com/x/status/2051911036001767640
View: https://x.com/Defence_Turk/status/2051911036001767640?s=20
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I’ll never understand why they chose to design the central IWBs around 1000 lb munitions so early in the aircraft’s development. I get that I have no idea what challenges they had to overcome to deliver such a capable design, and that this is easier done on a design with a single large diameter engine as in the case of the F-35; but still, wtf man…

Was it 2018 or 2020 when this was first revealed by the CEO? Everyone knew this had to change if we didn’t want to repeat the F-22/SDB situation with the Kaan.

I mean, the people who designed the F-22 were developing an air supremacy aircraft meant to operate over central Europe. They could've never imagined it would need to justify its existence by flying A-G missions and dropping anything beyond SDBs.

OTOH, the people working on the J-20 in the early 2000s knew they had to field an aircraft that could match the F-22’s raw performance 1:1, one that would handle air superiority missions and CAP until a new follow-up design arrived, and only start to gradually take on more A-G roles once the Chinese stealth fleet became large enough or its successor arrived.

But somehow, as an engineer at TAI in the 2010s-20s, you can have the foresight to equip this aircraft with unmatched situational awareness among the 5th gens, yet still stick to a narrow-minded Air Force requirement and not design a more future-proof IWB for a 20 meter aircraft?

Turkey isn’t China, it just doesn’t have the same abundance of resources and can’t afford to develop a dedicated air superiority platform and then a separate multirole aircraft as a follow-up. Kaan won’t be followed by a new multirole jet, it’ll be followed by its successor. In the meanwhile, there’s only the Anka-3 and Kizilelma LO UCAVs, but they can’t match the Kaan in neither range or payload. And with Turkey expanding its military and civilian presence, what happens if one of those assets gets targeted and you need to respond as remotely, swiftly and stealthily as possible?
 
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I think that designing the weapons bays around the 1000 pounders was a mistake as well snne, they should have been designed for the 2000 pounders that way they could have had a much bigger weapons loadout in the main bays. Turkey have shot themselves in the foot by going down the 1000Ib route for KAAN.
 
Turkey doesn't use imperial measurements. Perhaps you mean 500 kg?
 
That was what I was meaning MadRat thanks, it is so easy to get mixed up between the two.
 
Almost all of our modern military aviation is based on American tech tree as well as aircraft, so wdym "Turkey does not use imperial measurements"?

Could you please avoid derailing threads? Read up on stuff before randomly replying to year old posts... @MadRat
 
snne said:
Guys... this could be it.

At last, a procurement contract covering an undisclosed number of Kaan aircraft is scheduled to be signed between TA(I) and the Defense Industry Agency on May 6 at 13:45 local time during SAHA EXPO :p

We don't know if they're only formalizing previously stated procurement plans; but either way, this is a final move beyond the development contract into an official procurement contract.

HHgiV7aWgAAyBwE
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This was the green light for producing the 20 Block 1 aircraft from SSB.
 
Translated from Spanish
"Today, thanks to our colleagues at @Infodefensa, we know that the Government of Spain has asked TAI about the KAAN, apparently directly, without beating around the bush; very likely as a Plan B manoeuvre in the face of the more than probable end of the FCAS (at least, as it was originally planned). As we were saying, at DYS we were pioneers in putting together a series of features on TAI's aircraft: Jorge Estévez-Bujez, David Cardero, and especially Roberto Escámez, have left their mark to help better understand what the Turkish fighter is and why it's a valid option for Spain (not the only one)."
https://twitter.com/x/status/2052254622643818993
View: https://x.com/defyseguridad/status/2052254622643818993?s=20


And Spanish article -
https://defensayseguridad.es/kaan-l...ballo-negro-del-tablero-aeronautico-1a-parte/
 

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