The "BVR" missile is a bit narrow diameter for such type. It looks more like a lengthened variant of the WVR with a radar sensor.
 
The "BVR" missile is a bit narrow diameter for such type. It looks more like a lengthened variant of the WVR with a radar sensor.
i forgot which one but wasn't there another missile family that was like that..
mostly same body, just different sensors for WVR and BVR?
I think it was the Mica? or was it the Derby?
 
The "BVR" missile is a bit narrow diameter for such type. It looks more like a lengthened variant of the WVR with a radar sensor.
i forgot which one but wasn't there another missile family that was like that..
mostly same body, just different sensors for WVR and BVR?
I think it was the Mica? or was it the Derby?
Mica is exactly that, though the Turkish BVR missile has clearly a different dimention to their WVR missiles unlike the MICA.
 
Speaking at a ceremony organized at TUSAŞ facilities to celebrate the delivery of first T129B2 ATAK Helicopter to the Security General Directorate (Turkish Police) on February 26, 2021 TUSAŞ President & CEO Temel KOTİL disclosed that HÜRJET prototype will perform its maiden flight in December 2022, after the completion of the detailed design, prototype production and ground testing phases. While talking to TRT Radio 1 at the National and Domestic Program on December 4, 2020 TUSAŞ President & CEO KOTİL had previously underlined that the first HÜRJET prototype would execute its maiden flight on March 18, 2023, when the 108th anniversary of the Çanakkale Naval Victory will be celebrated.

HÜRJET is being developed by TUSAŞ under a Protocol signed between TUSAŞ, the SSB and the TurAF on July 2, 2018. The initial studies for the “Advanced Jet Trainer & Light Attack Aircraft (HÜRJET) Project” were started in July 2017 and the Project was officially launched on 14 August 2017, as a company funded project (which was funded from TUSAŞ’ own resources) after receiving a green light to go ahead from the TUSAŞ Board.

The Conceptual Design Phase (CDP) of the HÜRJET Project was completed in April 2018, according to original schedule the Preliminary Design Review (PDR) Phase activities should have been completed in February 2019 (To+18 months), Critical Design Review (CDR) Phase should have been completed in August 2020 (To+36 months) and the Test Readiness Review (TRR) Phase should have been completed in August 2021 (To+48 months). However due to the internal and external reasons this schedule could not be kept. The PDR Phase could only be completed in July 2020. Within the scope of the PDR Phase, TUSAŞ engineers have carried out several wind tunnel tests including Static Wind Tunnel Tests, Air Intake Wind Tunnel Test and Low Speed Wind Tunnel Test with HÜRJET’s 1/10 scaled model to confirm the existing configuration. The HÜRJET model that underwent the initial wind tunnel tests was configured in accordance with GE’s F404-GE-102 turbofan engine.

Following the signing of a Letter of Intent (LoI) between TUSAŞ and Eurojet Turbo GmbH for the delivery of EJ200 turbofan engines the design of the HÜRJET was modified (such as, the air intakes were revised and enlarged to accommodate the more powerful EJ200 engine) and further wind tunnel tests have been carried out to confirm revisions on the aircraft overall design. So currently HÜRJET has two separate designs in accordance with two different engine options. According to our sources the HÜRJET will be powered by the F404-GE-102 engine from GE. Under the project two prototypes will be manufactured. According to project schedule the 1st HÜRJET prototype would be rolled-out in December 2021 and to perform its maiden flight in February 2022 (To+60 months), the 2nd HÜRJET prototype, on the other hand, is planned to perform its maiden flight in August 2022 (To+64 months) but this schedule seems to could not be accomplished.

.....

https://www.defenceturkey.com/en/content/hurjet-new-generation-ajt-s-cdr-phase-completed-4414
 
A lot of new infos which are great, but in the same time this article is a damn mess.

In the article it says "The Critical Design Review (CDR) Phase of the HÜRJET [...] was completed in early March 2021. According to original schedule the CDR Phase should have been completed in August 2020 (To+36 months)."

Then it continues to mention "[...] on February 26, 2021 TUSAŞ President & CEO Temel KOTİL disclosed that HÜRJET prototype will perform its maiden flight in December 2022, after the completion of the detailed design, prototype production and ground testing phases. While talking to TRT Radio 1 at the National and Domestic Program on December 4, 2020 TUSAŞ President & CEO KOTİL had previously underlined that the first HÜRJET prototype would execute its maiden flight on March 18, 2023, when the 108th anniversary of the Çanakkale Naval Victory will be celebrated."

Which makes zero friggin sense. You delay your PDR, CDR but are now actually ahead with the maiden flight schedule? What in earth does this mean?

Then I've continued reading and got to the point where its mentioned "According to project schedule the 1st HÜRJET prototype would be rolled-out in December 2021 and to perform its maiden flight in February 2022 (To+60 months), the 2nd HÜRJET prototype, on the other hand, is planned to perform its maiden flight in August 2022 (To+64 months) but this schedule seems to could not be accomplished".

Now that makes sense. That "project schedule" is probably what that would have been published in 2017 when the project was officially started, akin to what TAI made public in 2018 when they officially started the development of the TF-X. So it is reasonable to think that the original plan was to do CDR by August 2020, which has been delayed to March 2020, therefore the first flight which was planned for February 2022 has been delayed to December 2022.


I don't think that this contradiction within the article is to blame the reporter who wrote this but his sources of information, which in this case is TAI and Temel Kotil. This is exactly the problem with anything Turkish. How come does, not anyone else, but a President & CEO of TAI mess these dates up? I get where that date of March 2023 comes from but in the broader context now it makes zero sense. Furthermore, this ain't the problem that is limited to only Temel Kotil. As I have stated countless times, the guys from SSB, guys from TEI, guys from TAI and other Turkish firms talk about some different schedule way too often, as if they are working with different projects. Before doing any PR works and interviews, the Turkish officials should all first sort out these hot mess of contradicting timelines and come up with something unified.


Lastly, as written in the article, the Hurjet will be "Turkey’s first indigenously developed supersonic aircraft that will pave the way for the MMU/TF-X".

Now we have to remember the news from earlier this year that the CDR of TF-X has been greatly accelerated and the CDR that was planned for late 2022~early 2023 has been brought forward to early 2022.

This speaks of a lot of things. If the knowledge gained from Hurjet were really that important for the TF-X program, delays of the Hurjet development should have affected the development of TF-X as well but in reality it was the exact opposite. Hurjet delayed while TF-X accelerated. This obviously makes no sense because, just like written in the article, the Hurjet is supposed to be the "first Turkish developed supersonic aircraft" and only gives me even more confidence to assume BAE is doing most of the work for TF-X, doing their job for the money they've been paid from Turkey. It also makes sense now why the Brits are so enthusiastic working in this project as well.

What further backs my opinion is the excerpt from the article :

"Stirling Dynamics of the UK announced that they secured a new contract from TUSAŞ to provide technical assistance in the areas of loads and aeroelastics for the HÜRJET aircraft program. This contract builds on previous support provided by Stirling Dynamics, which was initial consultancy to support TUSAŞ up to the HÜRJET’s Preliminary Design Review (PDR). Under the new contract, Stirling Dynamics will support TUSAŞ’ engineering team as they work towards Critical Design Review (CDR). Stirling Dynamics’ engineers will provide support in several formats involving training and guidance, expert review, and off-site work packages. Technical areas of interest include flight and gust loads, buffet, flutter, and validation testing."

This only translates into "Turkey lacks expertise in designing supersonic aircraft, so they need help in this regard". There's no wonder and its fairly straight forward.
 
Can we stop ths back and forth, and speculations?

Posting only when specific milestones (like actual procurement/r&d contracts for hurjet and tfx, first metal cut, first flight etc) are reached will be better for the thread.
 
Can we stop ths back and forth, and speculations?

Posting only when specific milestones (like actual procurement/r&d contracts for hurjet and tfx, first metal cut, first flight etc) are reached will be better for the thread.
Well, this one was exactly that, a CDR milestone and the clarification of its revised development schedule.
 
Not directly TFX related, but you can get a sense of nationalization efforts Turkey is going through with development of Air-to-Air missiles.

View: https://twitter.com/SageTubitak/status/1215609010382102529?s=20


Nearing the end of testing, Turkey's F-16 flying with Turkish made WVR and BVR air-to-air missiles -
View attachment 652043

Development continues for ramjet powered air-to-air missile.

Graphic of a Ramjet powered BVR air-to-air missile being developed
1615205135646.png

And a mock-up of a very short-range WVR air-to-air missile, likely this will be equipped upon unmanned/rotary aircraft
1615205091024.png
 
Last edited:
TUSAS have purchased an Additive Manufacturing machine which can print 6 meters squared parts in a vacuum. This machine will be used to print titanium bulkheads of TFX. - Source Temel Kotil
 
dang its like they are serious about this 5th gen project. Only issues left i am assuming are engines than flight tests if everything else is covered.
 
So, when it's gonna be flight tested ?

AESA radar for Turkish F-16 modernisation project currently being flight tested and is reported to be at-least equivalent to Northrop Grumman's AN/APG-83. Turkey is using GAN transistors in their AESA radars. Completion by 2022

Status of BURFIS AESA radar for TFX is currently not released, but it will likely follow after development of F-16 AESA radar is completed. Completion by 2026
 
Last edited:
Turkish Aerospace & TRMOTOR Signs Protocol for the Development of MMU`s Power Units

The APU (Auxiliary Power Unit) and ATSS (Air Turbine Start System) solutions to be required in the National Combat Aircraft, which is planned to be rolled out in 2023, will be achieved with this agreement and a critical milestone in the MMU project will be accomplished.

https://www.defenceturkey.com/en/co...for-the-development-of-mmu-s-power-units-4468
 
https://tass.com/defense/1265467
" Russia is ready for holding negotiations with Turkey on the possible delivery of Su-35 and Su-57 fighter aircraft, if it receives the corresponding request, Spokesperson for Russia’s Federal Service for Military and Technical Cooperation Valeria Reshetnikova said on Friday.

"As for Ankara’s potential plans of purchasing Russian Su-35 and Su-57 fighters, it should be noted that the Turkish side has been informed about their technical specifications in full. If there is a request from Turkey for these planes, we are ready for negotiations on this issue," the spokesperson said.

"The Turkish side has for quite long stated its intention to implement the project of developing its own TF-X fifth-generation fighter. Russia earlier indicated that it was ready to consider the possibility of cooperation under this program. However, we have not received the corresponding request from Ankara so far," Reshetnikova added."


Man those two countries have a very weird relationship. But I guess they do have a available lifeline if worst comes to worst on the programs development. It sounds like they continue getting a little closer https://tass.com/defense/1280693 thus creating a growing headache for NATO.
 
https://tass.com/defense/1265467
" Russia is ready for holding negotiations with Turkey on the possible delivery of Su-35 and Su-57 fighter aircraft, if it receives the corresponding request, Spokesperson for Russia’s Federal Service for Military and Technical Cooperation Valeria Reshetnikova said on Friday.

"As for Ankara’s potential plans of purchasing Russian Su-35 and Su-57 fighters, it should be noted that the Turkish side has been informed about their technical specifications in full. If there is a request from Turkey for these planes, we are ready for negotiations on this issue," the spokesperson said.

"The Turkish side has for quite long stated its intention to implement the project of developing its own TF-X fifth-generation fighter. Russia earlier indicated that it was ready to consider the possibility of cooperation under this program. However, we have not received the corresponding request from Ankara so far," Reshetnikova added."


Man those two countries have a very weird relationship. But I guess they do have a available lifeline if worst comes to worst on the programs development. It sounds like they continue getting a little closer https://tass.com/defense/1280693 thus creating a growing headache for NATO.

I don't know how serious this relationship can go.
Turkey and Russia might be lovey dovey in some areas
but they're also on opposing sides in other areas, such as Syria, too.
not sure how willing Russia is actually going to give their best fighter, to a country they could still potentially fight with.
 
https://tass.com/defense/1265467
" Russia is ready for holding negotiations with Turkey on the possible delivery of Su-35 and Su-57 fighter aircraft, if it receives the corresponding request, Spokesperson for Russia’s Federal Service for Military and Technical Cooperation Valeria Reshetnikova said on Friday.

"As for Ankara’s potential plans of purchasing Russian Su-35 and Su-57 fighters, it should be noted that the Turkish side has been informed about their technical specifications in full. If there is a request from Turkey for these planes, we are ready for negotiations on this issue," the spokesperson said.

"The Turkish side has for quite long stated its intention to implement the project of developing its own TF-X fifth-generation fighter. Russia earlier indicated that it was ready to consider the possibility of cooperation under this program. However, we have not received the corresponding request from Ankara so far," Reshetnikova added."


Man those two countries have a very weird relationship. But I guess they do have a available lifeline if worst comes to worst on the programs development. It sounds like they continue getting a little closer https://tass.com/defense/1280693 thus creating a growing headache for NATO.

I don't know how serious this relationship can go.
Turkey and Russia might be lovey dovey in some areas
but they're also on opposing sides in other areas, such as Syria, too.
not sure how willing Russia is actually going to give their best fighter, to a country they could still potentially fight with.

It could be a likely scenario, depending on air superiority in the region. Greece is being gifted Rafales and possibility of sales of F-35s. As a stop gap, Turkey could go Russian as 'NATO Allies' are making the inner circles more pronounced.
 
https://tass.com/defense/1265467
" Russia is ready for holding negotiations with Turkey on the possible delivery of Su-35 and Su-57 fighter aircraft, if it receives the corresponding request, Spokesperson for Russia’s Federal Service for Military and Technical Cooperation Valeria Reshetnikova said on Friday.

"As for Ankara’s potential plans of purchasing Russian Su-35 and Su-57 fighters, it should be noted that the Turkish side has been informed about their technical specifications in full. If there is a request from Turkey for these planes, we are ready for negotiations on this issue," the spokesperson said.

"The Turkish side has for quite long stated its intention to implement the project of developing its own TF-X fifth-generation fighter. Russia earlier indicated that it was ready to consider the possibility of cooperation under this program. However, we have not received the corresponding request from Ankara so far," Reshetnikova added."


Man those two countries have a very weird relationship. But I guess they do have a available lifeline if worst comes to worst on the programs development. It sounds like they continue getting a little closer https://tass.com/defense/1280693 thus creating a growing headache for NATO.

I don't know how serious this relationship can go.
Turkey and Russia might be lovey dovey in some areas
but they're also on opposing sides in other areas, such as Syria, too.
not sure how willing Russia is actually going to give their best fighter, to a country they could still potentially fight with.

It could be a likely scenario, depending on air superiority in the region. Greece is being gifted Rafales and possibility of sales of F-35s. As a stop gap, Turkey could go Russian as 'NATO Allies' are making the inner circles more pronounced.
but Russia is generally friendly to both Greece and Egypt.
Also Turkey and Russia are nearly enemies when it comes to Syria and Libya because they support rival sides.
and they are both competing for influence in the Caucasus.
 
I think it is more profit related. For example everyone is bashing about the aircraft receiving engines or not. I don't see the issue of just selling izdelie 30s to gain profit if Valeria is correct. They are already talking about getting a 2nd batch of S-400s so it's not like they will cooperate with NATO further at this point with the project.
 
Last edited:
  • ASELSAN are continuing development of Mercury Cadmium Telluride (MCT) based MWIR & LWIR Infrared detectors for TFX.
  • Integrated E/O Targeting system & infrared search and track for TFX is continuing
  • 'BÜHSET' National Combat Aircraft Communication Navigation and identification system project started on 30th December 2020
  • Flight Control System and Helmet Mounted Cueing System Contract expected to be signed this year with ASELSAN

1620481623677.png

Source: Aselsans 2020 Investor Relations Report
 
why is the front half around the canopy a different color?
 
TFX Operational Requirements - Internal/External Loads
Untitled-2.jpg

Name of the Ramjet Propelled air to air missile in development is given the name Gökhan, meaning "ruler of the sky" related to Tengrism - which is an ancient ethnic Turko-Mongolic religion originating in Central Asia and the Eurasian steppes
 
Last edited:
Outstanding, that is a "ten years in jail" level post ;)
 

Similar threads

Back
Top Bottom