Considering the Patriot threat, it was a stupid place to go, if you ask my opinion...
View: https://x.com/front_ukrainian/status/2016601663784493237
View: https://x.com/front_ukrainian/status/2016601663784493237
Su-30, Su-33, Su-34 and Su-35 News thread, pictures and discussion
ComradeVortex
Air Combat is a Beautiful Ballet of Death.
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ComradeVortex
Air Combat is a Beautiful Ballet of Death.
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ComradeVortex
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It looks that in fact there are two.
View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=605G5c6OP7s
Operating over the Economic Exclusive Zone of Romania and close to the romanian teritorial waters is clearly a provocation and an intimidation attempt. As an irony of fate, the Patriot system that shot down the Sukhoi in the Black Sea might be the one donated to Ukraina by Romania... I remember some discussion in the past that this was to be deployed in Odessa region.
Operating over the Economic Exclusive Zone of Romania and close to the romanian teritorial waters is clearly a provocation and an intimidation attempt. As an irony of fate, the Patriot system that shot down the Sukhoi in the Black Sea might be the one donated to Ukraina by Romania... I remember some discussion in the past that this was to be deployed in Odessa region.
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ComradeVortex
Air Combat is a Beautiful Ballet of Death.
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I highly doubt it was a Patriot shootdown.
Looks like Belarus received another Su-30SM2 lot.
View: https://x.com/MrFrantarelli/status/2016879168441766346/video/1
View: https://x.com/MrFrantarelli/status/2016879168441766346/video/1
Hm,Ukr channel said that Russian channels ....weird. We already saw that even heavy Su-34 can evade several MIM-104 SAM's. In the meantime, answer from FB.
Fighterbomber
Лохлы принялись с утра за работу и накидали следующих вбросов: - сбит Су-30 где-то под Одессой. Никаких Самолетов под Одессой не сбивалась и не терялось. Ни наших, ни хохлов. - Между Россией и Украиной с 7.00 сегодня вступил в действие договорняк о запрете ударов по объектам инфраструктуры...
t.me
PS
Several days ago there was ''body exchange'', 1000 for only 38. Almost same situation was throughout all 2025.
The experience of using modern NATO weapons on a soviet legacy fighter described by an ukrainian pilot.
www.twz.com
Who would have thought when these aircrafts were exiting fom the gates of a soviet factory that their product would lob HARM missiles, JDAM and SDB bombs at the russians? The future is wild.
Ukrainian Su-27 Flanker Pilot’s Rare Account Of The Changing Air War
The rare interview details combat operations over Ukraine, including the employment of Western guided munitions from Su-27 Flankers.
www.twz.com
Who would have thought when these aircrafts were exiting fom the gates of a soviet factory that their product would lob HARM missiles, JDAM and SDB bombs at the russians? The future is wild.
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Likely the first clear Image of an Algerian Su-35
Via: View: https://x.com/DWatsonfdz/status/2018462584152940581
Via: View: https://x.com/DWatsonfdz/status/2018462584152940581
ComradeVortex
Air Combat is a Beautiful Ballet of Death.
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The experience of using modern NATO weapons on a soviet legacy fighter described by an ukrainian pilot.
Ukrainian Su-27 Flanker Pilot’s Rare Account Of The Changing Air War
The rare interview details combat operations over Ukraine, including the employment of Western guided munitions from Su-27 Flankers.
Who would have thought when these aircrafts were exiting fom the gates of a soviet factory that their product would lob HARM missiles, JDAM and SDB bombs at the russians? The future is wild.
Old and known article . Citation:
''The view through the head-up display of a Ukrainian Su-27 after a missile is launched. Ukrainian Air Force screencap.''
We can clearly see that it was Su-35S IKSh-1M HUD and the launch of R-37M.
Almost 30 were built for the Egyptian AF.
So this export piece really won't be for Algeria...
Attachments
It seems that Egypt ordered exactly 30 Su-35.
''В августе 2020 года видео о посещении КнААЗа министром обороны России Сергеем Шойгу предоставило новую «украденную» информацию о статусе российско-египетского контракта. Контракт на деле заключен не на 20 или 24 Су-35, а на 30 самолетов, производство которых должно быть распределено следующим образом: 22 - в 2020 году и восемь - в 2021 году.''
''In August 2020, a video of Russian Defense Minister Sergei Shoigu's visit to KnAAZ revealed new "stolen" information about the status of the Russian-Egyptian contract. The contract was in fact not for 20 or 24 Su-35s, but for 30 aircraft, with production to be distributed as follows: 22 in 2020 and eight in 2021.''
bmpd.livejournal.com
During 2023 there was 29 produced Su-35 for the Egyptian AF.
Some sources mentioned that it is the first Su-35 for the IRIAF.
''В августе 2020 года видео о посещении КнААЗа министром обороны России Сергеем Шойгу предоставило новую «украденную» информацию о статусе российско-египетского контракта. Контракт на деле заключен не на 20 или 24 Су-35, а на 30 самолетов, производство которых должно быть распределено следующим образом: 22 - в 2020 году и восемь - в 2021 году.''
''In August 2020, a video of Russian Defense Minister Sergei Shoigu's visit to KnAAZ revealed new "stolen" information about the status of the Russian-Egyptian contract. The contract was in fact not for 20 or 24 Su-35s, but for 30 aircraft, with production to be distributed as follows: 22 in 2020 and eight in 2021.''
Судьба египетского контракта на закупку истребителей Су-35 остаётся в неопределённости
Французское издание Air Cosmos опубликовало небезынтересный материал Antoine Boissy Mais o sont passs les Su-35 gyptiens? Аnalyse exclusive OSINT (Куда подевались египетские Су-35? Эксклюзивный анализ…
bmpd.livejournal.com
During 2023 there was 29 produced Su-35 for the Egyptian AF.
Some sources mentioned that it is the first Su-35 for the IRIAF.
PeregrineFalcon
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Not only that, his claim that the HARM, resulted in a claimed 90% success rate against Russian ground-based defense targets, demonstrating “the incredible effectiveness” of the weapon, is the most laughable thing I have heard in a recent time!
Not to mention his claims that they were holding Russian fighter jets "at bay".
The only thing stopping the Russian Air Force from flying freely over the Ukraine and hunting them down at will is the Ukraine IADS.
According to the UK AF Wing Commander Joe Goodwin, the IADS with which UKR began the war was far denser, more extensive, connected, and coordinated than that protecting any comparably sized area of NATO territory, and this IADS has arguably only improved (despite massive expenditure of missiles) with the addition of modern Western Surface Based Air Defence Systems (SBADs), Anti Aircraft Artillery (AAA) and other systems (Not that we already didn't know that).
Something must bring the moral up.
We must keep on mind that Ukr armed forces control about 500.000 km2 of territory with very modern IADS as you mentioned and that is 5 times of the territory which defended former VJ during 78 days of 1999 NATO intervention. Btw ,former FRY was attacked almost from all sides ,directions and its ADF's had only older systems like SAM-3 and SAM-6 ,nothing else to count as modern,efective and capable.Only 10 operational and combat capable ( on paper only ) MiG-29B's could do nothing at all.
Citation from MWM :
''Speaking in early January, a Ukrainian Air Force F-16 pilot specifically singled out operations by Su-35s as a primary factor preventing F-16 units from operating in line with NATO doctrine, forced them to adopt a "low-altitude flight" strategy that focused on terrain masking using ground clutter to avoid the more advanced Russian aircraft. A prior report by Rostec CEO Sergey Chemezov observed in November 2024 that Ukraine’s newly delivered Western F-16 and Mirage 2000 fighters had been forced to operate exclusively at low altitudes in airspace far behind the frontlines to avoid being targeted by Su-35s. Ukrainian Air Force sources have consistently warned that new Western-supplied F-16 and Mirage 2000 fighters are wholly incapable of matching the capabilities of the Su-35.''
How the Su-35 Beat More Capable Aircraft to Lead Russia’s Fighter Fleet in Air-to-Air Kill Counts
Russian state defence conglomerate Rostec reported that the Su-35S has destroyed more targets in air-to-air combat than any other fighter type in the Russian Armed
militarywatchmagazine.com
Dreamflyer
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Did someone expect (the radars of) second-hand F-16AM/BM and Mirage 2000-5 fighters would be a match for the (radar) capabilities of the much more recent Su-35?
Ainen
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The problem isn't really radar in this case.
I doubt F-16 blk 70 or even F-15 would do materially better.
Dreamflyer
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Aha. How so?
Ainen
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Primary problem isn't even fighters, it's extreme suppression of long range Ru SAMs. Ru army AD units have an order of magnitude more reach than Ukrainian counterparts.
As such, VKS fighters permanently hold high ground, giving them effective range advantage. Also about an order of magnitude.
Finally, VKS is a developing system at a 2026 level. And discussion still goes how individual better aircraft, from 2010s will change it. They will not, they will remain individual aircraft, placed against higher level and more systematic opponent, and they will be placed into an unsuitable(for them force) against one which is actually 100% suitable.
Until recently, there was significant hope that meteor specifically can be an unique assymetric response, due to it's unique specification combination(high Isp and 2-way datalink are magic). But things dragged for long enough I am not quite sure this will be the case any longer if they'll finally arrive.
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Dreamflyer
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Modern IADS / SAM-systems (on both sides) are indeed the main reason, which is also the main cause for the Russian AF not having established air-superiority.
But I was talking about just one factor in the whole matter; the F-16AM/BM with APG-66V2 radars (and Mirage 2000-5 with RDY) not being able to match the capabilities of the Su-35 (as was to be expected, and as mentioned (e.g.) in the MWM article and as in the quote by Squirrel from that particular article). I´m sure properly trained Ukrainian pilots would have scored other AA-kills by now besides downing cruise-missiles and drones, if they had received up-to-date Typhoons (with Meteors), or perhaps even brand new F-15EXs (with AIM-120Ds). But that was never going to happen.
But I was talking about just one factor in the whole matter; the F-16AM/BM with APG-66V2 radars (and Mirage 2000-5 with RDY) not being able to match the capabilities of the Su-35 (as was to be expected, and as mentioned (e.g.) in the MWM article and as in the quote by Squirrel from that particular article). I´m sure properly trained Ukrainian pilots would have scored other AA-kills by now besides downing cruise-missiles and drones, if they had received up-to-date Typhoons (with Meteors), or perhaps even brand new F-15EXs (with AIM-120Ds). But that was never going to happen.
Ainen
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VKS has air superiority - but only over region adjustent to immediate frontline (where they can control there will be no ambush SAMs).
By definition, they have freedom of strike and operations in that area, Ukrainian strike operations are more of intrusions which are heavily contested(sometimes with losses).
I don't see how F-15EX (as it is now, before the promised long arm weapon) can change much by itself. Typhoons probably could - but since this decision wasn't taken till this point, IMHO it's effectively too late.
Fighters have proven to be far too sensitive from PR perspective. And not a single country in entire global west bothered to produce long range GBAD since NORAD times.
It's telling just how much pain a lone(?) digital S-200 managed to inflict on VKS operations, and how disproportionally impactful PAC-2 GEM was when compared to everything else.
But this is pebbles.
Air superiority or air dominance ,whatever .What are these in fact? AS/AD is about one thing only and it is height, altitude, again whatever.So height of the flight in which fighter-interceptors can ensure that AS/AD during as long period of time as it is necessary. ''Higher the fighter-interceptor is ,greater will be its radio horizon''. Also launched AAM's will have max of kinematics and energetic potential. Simple.
Of course, we must count on the ''flying radar stations'' (AWACS) with their 360 degrees surveillance/search of the air space because fighter-interceptors will almost always begin their AS/AD missions in the complete radio-silence. Also ,all radars in the fighters can only search in one given sector simultaneously that is often limited by max 120-140 degrees-azimuth and 120-140 degrees-elevation.Su-57 in that domain is something new because with its eight AESA radars it has capability to search air space sector 270 degrees-azimuth and 120 degrees-elevation ( in the same period of time of course).
Now, ,as far as I know, there is only one operational real fighter interceptor in the world which can fly and patrol for a long period of time in the 'upper stratosphere' ,above the Armstrong's line and it is MiG-31BM. Even Su-35S can't do that,not even F-15C or F-22A or any other NATO fighter at all.So if we take in account constant surveillance missions of A-50U ( about 10km) and constant patrol missions of MiG-31BM ( if would be necessary 20+km ), there will be little or no chance for the Ukrainians even if they get F-22A Raptor 'cause they will be detected/tracked during climbing to medium/high alt. UkrAF fighters can fly higher only above central and western part of Ukraine, that is known but in the vicinity of VKS operations and missions they always fly very low. That is fact and it is mentioned by many UkrAF pilots.Simply, they have no long range AWACS in the sky, have no fighters with long range radars/AAM.Even if they would get all of that ,problem for them will be height and endurance of its fighters vs VKS ones.
Another thing ,if we count on the new stealth Su-57's, their AESA radar capabilities, Product 180 and 810 long range AAM's ,chances will be even more less. From this war and the 'Oper. Sindoor' May '25, we 'learned' that even 9G-capable fighters can be engaged from more than 200km of distance.
For now, VKS fighters like Su-30SM/SM2 and Su-35S patrolling at about 10-12km are enough to ensure complete AS/AD in the war zone. Of course ,MiG-31BM also patrols and I think there is no need for patrols above so called Armstrong limit.
Dreamflyer
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IOW just over some part of the land the Russians occupy. The Russians occupy about 14% - 15% of Ukrainian territory, when not taking into account Crimea.
Russian aircraft mostly stay in Russian airspace and rely on long-range weapons.
A whole lot of decisions were not taken, for which it´s too late now.
Dreamflyer
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Have a nice day.
Yes ,for sure ,only several fighters and bombers ( Su-34 and Su-35S) were shot down inside RF air space from tens which were shot down so far by either Ukr or the own SAM's.
Also....
There is a confirmation
Su-34 Fighter-Bomber Destroyed: Why the Russian Air Force Keeps Falling Out of Skies Above Ukraine
Two advanced Russian fighters were shot down by a U.S. Patriot system. Here is why their "Khibiny" electronic warfare jammers failed to protect them.
www.19fortyfive.com
"Ukraine has confirmed the shootdown of a Russian Su-34 fighter-bomber and an Su-30SM multirole fighter, reportedly intercepted by a U.S.-made PAC-3 Patriot system.
-Despite both aircraft being equipped with advanced Khibiny electronic warfare (EW) systems—specifically the SAP-518SM “Regata” pods—the jammers failed to defeat the Western air defense system they were designed to counter."
"Official confirmation of which aircraft were intercepted and destroyed later came from Andriy Kovalenko, who is the head of Ukraine’s Center for Countering Disinformation. He announced that the two losses were actually one Su-34 and one Su-30SM multirole fighter, not two Su-34s as initially reported."
"According to a source in Moscow, they were shot out of the sky by a U.S.-made PAC-3 Patriot system."
EmoBirb
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Most certainly not. UA Patriots these days are rarely used to engage aircraft. Not only because of a critical shortage of missiles that are much better used and also generally reserved for missile defense (even though with extremely little success in that department as well). But a Patriot battery that's trying to hunt for aircraft is a battery that exposes it's precise location for a significant time duration in order to engage a given aircraft. And by now the Ukrainian Air Defense units, which I would describe as generally component, should have learned that exposing themselves like that ultimately ends up with a ballistic or cruise missile coming their way. And especially Iskander-M as well as Kinzhal have not only the range but also so far demonstrated to be uniquely suitable to smite SAM systems with relative ease given sufficient targeting data.
In short, going out there hunting for aircraft isn't viable or likely for various reasons, from critical shortages of missiles to the hunter easily becoming the hunted with little means to defend themselves.
The Khibiny-U system is already compromised since more than three years.
www.twz.com
Countermeasures to this system were for sure already devised by the americans. The Sukhois would need an upgrade of their electronic warfare system in order to remain safe.
Ukraine Just Captured One Of Russia’s Most Capable Aerial Electronic Warfare Pods
Russia’s lost Khibiny-U electronic warfare pod that flies on its advanced Flanker fighters will be a prize for foreign intelligence agencies.
www.twz.com
Countermeasures to this system were for sure already devised by the americans. The Sukhois would need an upgrade of their electronic warfare system in order to remain safe.
Ainen
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It's best use of PAC-2s in any case, risks or not.
People seriously overestimate EW container after fall - if outside is crushed, thing is done for. What matters there is either good elint (which can be done anyway, and it's a controlled risk), or getting entire piece to work.
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That is sequence from :
Военная приемка. «КРЭТ» Часть 1. /2024 г./
Now, immediately after this happened...
...and it happened on 3 April 2022 in the vicinity of the city of Izym ( someone here wrote that Russian combat aircraft fly only in Russian air space) ,KRET started to modernise wing stations especially for the Su-35S.Old stations designated as L265M10-01 (-02 is for the export), were in production until 2023.New,modernised wing stations designated as L265M10-01M are in production from 2023 and we can see that those new stations have in fact new design and shape.
Stations have now oval shape rather than round. 'Radiation hazard' signs were added on the radomes.
Hi-res photo were we can see new wing stations
Photos of the L265M10-02 from MAKS2017
Khibiny Electronic Countermeasures System; Russia's Secret Technology! - Islamic World News
Khibiny is an Electronic Countermeasures (ECM) system that has been specifically designed and developed for the Sukhoi fighter jets of the Russian Aerospace Forces. As the name suggests, this system is used to interfere with radio waves and to counter and deflect the enemy's tracking systems.
english.iswnews.com
I suppose that same happened with the onboard active jamming system L175M 'Khibiny-V' ( Su-34/M) and 'Khibiny-U' ( Su-30SM) and their wing stations.It is worth of repeating ,one wing station has two substations: 'Proran' for the ELINT and operating in the frequency range 1GHz-40GHz and 'Regata' for the ECM
,operating in the frequency range 1GHz-18GHz.
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