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Spanish AISA aircraft

hesham

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Hallo,


AISA AVD-12 :high wing all metal monoplane.
AISA I-18 :three engined cabin aircraft,it was cantilever high wing
monoplane,powered by ENMA Tiger G-IV-B inline inverted
air-cooled engine.
 

Bailey

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AISA AVD-12 :high wing all metal monoplane.
I'm currently researching this aircraft, designed by Dewoitine, which was a competitor with the Dornier D.O 25/27 for a liaison aircraft in the mid 1950's. For an aircraft of which only two prototypes were built, it seems to have accumulated a lot of different designations. I'd greatly appreciate any help in sorting it all out.
I have fully searched the web for any information, so I'm relying on people's knowledge outside of the internet.

Here's what I have so far.

AVD-10 Appears in a few references without any further details. Is it an earlier design for the AVD-12.

AVD-12 Appears to be the main design designation. Seems to have be used for the 1st prototype with the ENMASA Tigre version.

AVD-12A One reference found, no details. Possible different engine variant.

AVD-12B As for AVD-12A.

AVD-12C Applied to the second prototype powered by the Continental O-470 engine. Does the "C" stand for Continental, or is that to easy.

* Does anyone know what "AVD" stands for?

D.570 Given as the Dewoitine project number. Belived to be an error.

D.750-1 Thought to be the correct Dewoitine design number.

D.750-2 Was this the Dewoitine design number for the 12C version.

I-18 Appears to be Iberavia (AISA's design office) designation.

I-18B Possible number for and ambulance version.

I-18D Possible number for a photographic survey version.

L-9 Given as the Spanish Air Force designation for both the AVD-10 and Dornier D.O 27/Casa C.127. Belived to be correct for the Dornier design only.

L-10 Given as the Spanish Air Force designation for the AVD-10 and AVD-12 and AVD-12A. Belived correct for the AVD-12 and AVD-12C.

XL-10 Given as the SAF designation for the two prototypes. Was this just an informal number.

L-18 Given as the SAF designation for the AVD-12. Belive this is a mix up with the Iberavia I-18 number.

All help gratefully received.

Regards Bailey.
 

Apophenia

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Bailey, you've probably seen the following, but for those who haven't:

AVD-12C 3-view - http://richard.ferriere.free.fr/3vues/aisa_12_3v.jpg
Photo of 94+11 - http://www.aviationcorner.net/show_photo.asp?id=67648
Details/photos - http://www.flightglobal.com/pdfarchive/view/1956/1956%20-%201627.html
Details/photos - http://www.flightglobal.com/pdfarchive/view/1956/1956%20-%200133.html

AVD-12C Span 36.2', length 25.4', height 6.9', empty 1669 lb, loaded 2718 lb, wing loading 14 lb/sq' (Full-span flap/ailerons), power loading 12 lb/hp, max 173 mph, cruise 166 mph.
 

Apophenia

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Bailey,

"Avioneta AISA AVD-12 C Dewoitine"
http://www.network54.com/Forum/394728/thread/1193066423/Avioneta+AISA++AVD-12+C++DEWOITINE

Poster "ce3K" (aka Pepe Hermoso) writes that the designer of the AVD-12 was not Emile Dewoitine but a former Dewoitine aeronautical engineer. "D. Estanislao Makoviecki Pomian", or Stanislaus Makowiecki, is listed as the AVD-12's chief design engineer, head of the design team was D. Reyes Escribano Borruel.

Señor Hermoso's father (Ramón Hermoso Sanjuan) later worked for Trimak (Triciclo-Makowiecki). The Spanish Wiki page on Trimak also mentions the AVD-12, saying that design, construction, and testing of the AISA AVD-12 was done by "Makowiecky Pomian Stanislaus".

How reliable any of this is, I don't know. The Wiki sections ends with the AVD-12 described as "muy moderna para su tiempo pero que fue desestimada en favor de una Cessna"! ::) I'm guessing that their Do-25/Cessna confusion sprang from Flight's comparison.
 

Bailey

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Hi, Thanks for coming back with these links, although I was aware of them. With regard to the second item, I have not been able to confirm any of the information as yet. The Spanish Airforce chose the Dornier DO 27 in preference to the AVD 12C.

Regards Bailey
 

Apophenia

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Bailey said:
...The Spanish Airforce chose the Dornier DO 27 in preference to the AVD 12C...
Right. But -- allowing for engine changes, etc. -- wasn't the Do-27 a 'productionized' version of the Do 25 P1/XL-9 which was in competition with the AVD 12C?
 

hesham

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By the way,

the AISA I-18 was three seat contilever high wing light monoplane,and powered
by a ENMA Tigre G-IV-B four-cylinder in-line inverted air-cooled engine providing
a top speed of 225 kmh and a range of 750 km.
 

Bailey

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Hi all,

Right. But -- allowing for engine changes, etc. -- wasn't the Do-27 a 'productionized' version of the Do 25 P1/XL-9 which was in competition with the AVD 12C?
Yes, the Do-27 was the follow on from the Do-25, developed back in Germany and fitted with the Lycoming engine instead of either the Tigre or Continental. CASA built them under licence as the C 127.

the AISA I-18 was three seat contilever high wing light monoplane,and powered
by a ENMA Tigre G-IV-B four-cylinder in-line inverted air-cooled engine providing
a top speed of 225 kmh and a range of 750 km.
The AVD-12 and the I-18 were the same aircraft. The I-18 designation being AISA's Iberavia design office number.

Thanks for the interest guys.
 

Stargazer2006

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Bailey said:
D.570 Given as the Dewoitine project number. Belived to be an error.
D.750-1 Thought to be the correct Dewoitine design number.
D.750-2 Was this the Dewoitine design number for the 12C version.
Don't know about this particular project for Spain, but the Dewoitine D.750 was a distinct pre-war program for a twin-engined naval recce monoplane:

 

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toura

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D 750
Yes prewar plane. first flight may 06 1940
2 Renault engines 12.r
From an old "Aviation magazine"
 

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hesham

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Hi,


also INTA or Later AISA developed I-11 and I-115 light aircraft and I-20;


http://www.secretprojects.co.uk/forum/index.php/topic,8412.msg74816.html#msg74816
 

c460

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Hi Hesham,

There is a confusion between two entities:

- INTA: This is the Instituto Nacional de Técnica Aeronáutica, still existing as Instituto Nacional de Técnica Aeroespacial. It made the early prototypes of the HM light aircraft designed by Pedro Huarte-Mendicoa, later produced by AISA. There were a few other INTA projects, among which the INTA-20, discussed in the linked thread.

- Iberavia: This was a private company founded in 1946 by Lázaro Ros, with engineer Juan del Campo Aguilera. It made the I-11 and I-115 light aircraft prototypes. Émile Dewoitine worked for AISA too, and designed the IP-2 glider, the I-18 (later AVD-12) and the IET-24 twin-engine project. The cooperation between Iberavia and AISA started in 1949 for the series production of Iberavia prototypes. Iberavia was finally absorbed by AISA in 1952 and became its prototype department. The I-11 was later developed there as the I-11B.

About the various designations of the AVD-12, here is what I have:
- Dewoitine applied his own private designation D.750. The names D.750-1 and D.750-2 are mentioned in the book Les avions Dewoitine by Danel & Cuny, respectively about the first aircraft with Elizalde engine and the second aircraft with Continental engine. It is well known that Émile Dewoitine re-used previous prewar designations after 1940, starting with the D-600 project (or HS-50 fighter, named as a continuation of the successful D.520 and D.550) and the D-700 Pulqui.
- The study of the aircraft was started for Iberavia, who applied its own designation I-18, according to Danel & Cuny. (This is also mentioned in an article about Dewoitine aircraft in Aeroplano no.25, heavily based on their book.)
- The aircraft was released by AISA under its own designation AVD-12. The name AVD-12 C for the second aircraft with Continental engine is well documented, and I think that "C" stands for Continental. The name AVD-12 A is mentioned by Danel & Cuny (in the appendix only) for the first aircraft with Elizalde, but maybe it was applied only in retrospect. For example the article in Avión Apr. 1956 and that in Flight 16 Nov. 1956 both use the names "AVD-12" and "AVD-12C" only:
http://www.network54.com/Forum/394728/thread/1193066423/Avioneta+AISA++AVD-12+C++DEWOITINE
http://www.flightglobal.com/pdfarchive/view/1956/1956%20-%201627.html
I've never heard of an "AVD-10", and I suspect a confusion with "L-10". It is not implausible that the name AVD-12 was chosen as a continuation of the I-11B and I-115 which were AISA's most successful designs at the time.
- The military designation L-10 was registered for the aircraft. Because it was only a prototype, it was first called "XL-10", a practice copied on U.S. designations. The letter "L" was used for liaison aircraft. The website by Andreas Parsch lists other "L" aircraft, but it certainly contains mistakes. (The AVD-12 is mentioned as "L-18" in an older series, together with much older aircraft, and the L-10 is described as a probably non-existent "AVD-10".)
http://www.designation-systems.net/non-us/spain.html
 

hesham

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Thank you my dear C460,


but in old Encyclopedias,they didn't seperate between the two companies.
 

Stargazer2006

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c460 said:
There is a confusion between two entities
Very interesting post, c460, thanks for this.

hesham said:
but in old Encyclopedias,they didn't seperate between the two companies.
But if old encyclopedias were both complete and reliable, there would be no need to publish new books, right? ::)
 

hesham

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My dear Skyblazer,


I confess the old encyclopedias have many mistakes,and the newer books have
more credibility.
 
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