South African prototypes, projects, concepts, etc.

kaiserbill

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Precisely what I thought too.
I suppose if you are looking for inspiration in the early design phases for an AA gun on a wheeled IFV chassis at or under the 20t range, it's a good starting point to study.
The eventual option was a more capable, heavier system mounted on the heavier, more capable Rooikat chassis.
 

Pioneer

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kaiserbill said:
The requirement for a mechanised mobile SPAAG was eventually settled on the ZA-35 on a modified Rooikat chassis.
The G-6 SP artillery was also considered, as pictures out there of a G-6 hull with ZA-35 turret show.
I recall from Helmoed Romer Heitmans books in the late 80's/early '90's that mention was made that a variety of platforms or hulls were looked at, including the Ratel IFV.
I have wondered about it, as the ZA-35 turret is very big (hence the Rooikat and G-6 hulls)

Again, from tanks encyclopedia site, concept drawing from a fellow who worked at Kentron.
I don't know much beyond the above.
Oh wow, great find kaiserbill, looks like some Krauss-Maffei Wildcat SPAAG turret layout and influence!

Thank's for sharing!!

Regards
Pioneer
 

61M

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I remember seeing Denel artwork of a Rooikat AA concept with the 35mm guns mounted on the centreline of the turret instead.
Read somewhere that on some systems the barrels elevating can interfere with the radar.
 

kaiserbill

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A new article about the Tank Technology Demonstrator (TTD), under Project Loggim, with previously unpublished videos and pictures.
I was not aware that a "sub" test bed vehicle had also been manufactured and tested, in 1987/88, to test automotive/running gear, and armour components.
The videos uploaded from youtube are interesting from a mechanical point of view.

http://www.tanks-encyclopedia.com/modern/south-africa/tank-technology-demonstrator/?fbclid=IwAR34jx449a57kWSeHEITwW_RY9ghB-7rc9WeXaVEYb3GNCT__cd24mfQKvc
 

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kaiserbill

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I wonder where this sub test bed vehicle, as seen in the video, ended up?
 

61M

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Looks to me like a regular LEO2 hull that's been disguised with add-on panels.
Similar to what the car companies do when they test prototypes out in the wild.
I'd guess it was used for component testing and then sent back to Germany to avoid any possible bad PR.



kaiserbill said:
I wonder where this sub test bed vehicle, as seen in the video, ended up?
 

kaiserbill

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I am not sure..they mention a differently rated engine than that found on the Leopard 2 and TTD.
Can anybody get a few screengrabs from the video so a closer look can be had?
 

Hood

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I used to have a Brassey's book that had a quite detailed entry on the TTD. Haven't got it now which is a shame. I can't remember exactly what the basis for the chassis was but I don't think it was a Leopard 2.
 

Kadija_Man

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Hood said:
I used to have a Brassey's book that had a quite detailed entry on the TTD. Haven't got it now which is a shame. I can't remember exactly what the basis for the chassis was but I don't think it was a Leopard 2.
IIRC it was Centurion, wasn't it?
 

61M

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Pause the TTD vid at 14 sec.
That's a LEO2 hull all day long.
Looks like they added some extra dust filtering on top of the engine bay.
It wouldn't be the first armoured vehicle hull loaned to SA for testing and then sent back to Germany.
 

kaiserbill

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Kadija_Man said:
Hood said:
I used to have a Brassey's book that had a quite detailed entry on the TTD. Haven't got it now which is a shame. I can't remember exactly what the basis for the chassis was but I don't think it was a Leopard 2.
IIRC it was Centurion, wasn't it?
The Olifant Mk1B, Optimal, and Mk2 are Centurion based.
The TTD was a brand new design.
 

Kadija_Man

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kaiserbill said:
Kadija_Man said:
Hood said:
I used to have a Brassey's book that had a quite detailed entry on the TTD. Haven't got it now which is a shame. I can't remember exactly what the basis for the chassis was but I don't think it was a Leopard 2.
IIRC it was Centurion, wasn't it?
The Olifant Mk1B, Optimal, and Mk2 are Centurion based.
The TTD was a brand new design.
Ah, OK, thanks.
 

kaiserbill

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The TTD hull is not a Leopard 2 hull.
The question being asked is whether the hull in the video posted earlier, the developmental sub-component hull used to validate various components before the TTD was built, is a Leopard 2 hull.
I am not totally convinced, the engine output as stated in the video is different, as is the rear hull and engine cooling systems placement, just from a brief glance.
Some screenshots from the video:
 

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61M

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I suspect they added some panels to disguise the fact that it was a loaner LEO2 hull.
They might have looked at a different (COTS) engine model to get around sanctions easier.
If it was sent back to Germany that would also explain why it was never seen again.


The TTD hull is not a Leopard 2 hull.
The question being asked is whether the hull in the video posted earlier, the developmental sub-component hull used to validate various components before the TTD was built, is a Leopard 2 hull.
I am not totally convinced, the engine output as stated in the video is different, as is the rear hull and engine cooling systems placement, just from a brief glance.
Some screenshots from the video:
 

Herman

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The requirement for a mechanised mobile SPAAG was eventually settled on the ZA-35 on a modified Rooikat chassis.
The G-6 SP artillery was also considered, as pictures out there of a G-6 hull with ZA-35 turret show.
I recall from Helmoed Romer Heitmans books in the late 80's/early '90's that mention was made that a variety of platforms or hulls were looked at, including the Ratel IFV.
I have wondered about it, as the ZA-35 turret is very big (hence the Rooikat and G-6 hulls)

Again, from tanks encyclopedia site, concept drawing from a fellow who worked at Kentron.
I don't know much beyond the above.
The turret on this vehicle looks very similar to the Wildcat twin 30mm SPAAG developd in Germany, in the early eighties, by a group of companies including Krauss-Maffei, Siemens, Hollandse Signaalapparaten, Mauser-Werke, Kuka Wehrtechnik and AEG-Telefunken. The turret was mounted on a modified version of the Transportpanzer 1 (Fuchs) 6x6 vehicle. This turret might have fitted on the Ratel although the German vehicle is about 50cm wider than the Ratel (track 2.54 meters versus 2.08 for the Ratel).
 
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