South African prototypes, projects, concepts, etc.

[robunos]

Here we go, here are the images extracted from the
PDFs posted by Kaiserbill in post 346 :-
First batch from PDF #1

 

[robunos]

second batch from PDF #1

 

[robunos]

First batch from PDF #2

 

[robunos]

Last one from PDF #2

 

[robunos]

First batch from PDF #3

 

[robunos]

Second batch from PDF #3

 

[robunos]

First batch from PDF #4

 

[robunos]

Second batch from PDF #4

 

[robunos]

First batch from PDF #5

 

[robunos]

Last batch from PDF #5


cheers,
Robin.

 

[Grey Havoc]

Improvement of the G6 being considered; able to cross 2.2m trench.

SA Army or export?

Haha....I'l bet you would love some of these for the Cav Corps!! We STILL haven't replaced the AML 90s!

Would be nice.

 

[kaiserbill]

Robin, thanks very much for cutting and posting those pdf pics.

 

[robunos]

No problem, just giving a little back for all
the awesome stuff you've posted in this
(and other) threads...


cheers,
Robin.

 

[Rickshaw]

Some very interesting photos. However, I'm unsure what they're showing most of the time.

I found the ones of the turret interesting. What are the two circular openings either side of the gun and slightly below it on the mantlet?

 

[miker]

At a guess I'd say the two holes you refer to are for the co-ax MG on the left & gunners sight on the right.

 

[kaiserbill]

I was wondering if anyone here could clarify the status of the South African Army’s Centurion tank fleet before the major upgrade programs. In particular the buying and selling of Centurions after the initial acquisition.

As I understand it South Africa ordered some 200 Centurion Mk 3s for delivery from 1952. During the late 50s or early 60s a large number of these Centurions were seen as surplus and sold to Switzerland. Later after the start of the Bush Wars in the 1970s over 100 early mark Centurions were acquired from Jordan and/or India. Resulting in a tank park of some 200-250 for upgrade to Olifant in the 1980s.

I was hoping someone would have more definitive dates, numbers and destinations of these sales and acquisitions of Centurions.

Still haven't found a definitive list of exactly what marks were purchased when, but defenceweb, normally relatively accurate, has this to say:

The SA Army currently owns up to 266 of the tanks in five variants: the Mk2, Mk1B and Mk1A MBT in addition to about 16 armoured recovery vehicles (ARV) and two armoured bridgelayers (ABL).

The Olifant is based on the British Centurion cruiser tank developed during World War Two. Several pre-production models saw action in northern Germany in 1945. Production of the vehicles stopped in 1962. South Africa acquired some 250 Mk 2 and Mk 3 Centurions directly from Britain from 1957 to arm an armoured division earmarked for Commonwealth service in the Middle East.

Several hundred Alvis Saracen armoured personnel carrier were acquired for the same purpose at the same time. After South Africa left the Commonwealth in the face of greater opposition to its racist Apartheid policies, roughly half the tanks were sold as surplus to new requirements. As arms embargoes increased and tanks appeared in the inventories of newly independent neighbours, South Africa had to buy Centurion Mk5s in various states of repair from India and Jordan in the 1970s.

Various upgrades were then undertaken, reportedly with Israeli assistance, at the Olifant's Manufacturing Company, a factory established for the purpose. The Olifant Mk1 entered service in 1978. Remanufacture to the Mk1A-standard commenced in 1983 and examples entered service in 1985. Upgrade to Mk1B-standard commenced in 1991. Twenty-six Mk2's were commissioned from 2007 as part of Project Atolasa.

The article was from June 2011, and mentions that there 266 battle tanks, 16 ARV's, and 2 armoured bridge layers. There was a contract issued just previously to the article to upgrade 13 Mk1b's in one contract, and naturally there are 26 Mk2's from 2007.

 

[kaiserbill]

Reply no 2 on the first page on this thread featured a 6 wheeled Casspir. Below are 2 further pictures of this vehicle.

 

[curious george]

Another f/book find,this time group for SAAF members/ex-members.

Containerised Cactus

 

[kaiserbill]

I take it the containerised Cactus/Crotale was to get the system out of the original electric/generator powered vehicles? Were there other improvements, or amalgamations of the various components into the container? It would appear to have far more space than the original vehicle.

Perhaps a precursor to the impending GBADS Umkhonto land based SAM?

 

[curious george]

Another oddball,from f/book again,think these guys posing were "berede"(mounted inf-as in horse/bike squad).Guestimate,judging from webbing,late '70s to early '80's?Anyone?

*sofar the feedback suggest that this was a proto tried out by SWASPES,SWATF.

 

[CostasTT]

Reply no 2 on the first page on this thread featured a 6 wheeled Casspir. Below are 2 further pictures of this vehicle.

Nice find.
Another picture:

 

[kaiserbill]

Interesting Costa. It's difficult to confirm from the various pictures, but are those additional wheels set slightly wider or narrower than the axle before it?

Along the lines of the Duisendpoot seen below? This was originally designed for use with the Spinnekop vehicle mentioned earlier, but can be used by other mine proof vehicles.

 

[CostasTT]

To me, they look like they have the same track.

 

[curious george]

Again nicked from f/book,

early examples of mine proofing on unimogs.Interesting is the shape of the loadbed,reminiscent of the later buffel apc.

 

[kaiserbill]

That is the Bosvark from 1974. 54 were converted by 61 Base Workshop. Although the description below says it was the first Army mine protected vehicle, everything I've seen indicates the Hyena was in service earlier by a year or 2.

 

[kaiserbill]

What vehicle is this?

It has the description of Bulperd, and it seems to be a modified Mack 6X6 truck used as a recovery vehicle. In the first pictures you can see a Mack recovery vehicle and a Bulperd arriving at Sandstone heritage centre, which works closely with the Bloemfontein armour Museum. When were the Macks purchased by South Africa, and how many Bulperd vehicles were converted?

I've seen it said on the internet that it was replaced by the SAMIL Withings recovery vehicle.

 

[sa_bushwar]

My next design: G7 175mm...

 

[kaiserbill]

SA bushwar, I'd like to keep the topic to actual projects, whether they were realised off the drawing board or not.

So far, this topic has seen a lot of useful photos and information come to light.

 

[kaiserbill]

A couple of more recent, close-up pics of the SAMIL 20 based Bulldog APC that was mooted at one stage as a Buffel replacement, as seen in post 2 on page 1.

 

[kaiserbill]

What vehicle is this? Is it a Centurion ARV or an Olifant ARV development?

 

[Rickshaw]

Not a Centurion ARV. That vision block is very unusual.

 

[Abraham Gubler]

What vehicle is this? Is it a Centurion ARV or an Olifant ARV development?

That's the Olifant ARV MK 1A converted from gun tanks (not from the Centurion ARV) several of which were built. Its a strange photo angle but it had a driver window.

 

[xiaofan]

Found this on net, that look like Olifant ARV MK 1A.

 

[xiaofan]

And this, look like ARV basis on Comet.

 

[kaiserbill]

Appears to be the Olifant ARV Mk1A, this seems to be on the way to Angola and looks like it is mocked up as a SPAAM to deceive prying eyes?

This pic has Sentinel Projects on it, but I found it on a different site. Mods, is this okay? By all means, perhaps a visit to that Sentinel Projects site may be a good thing.

 

[kaiserbill]

How many Olifant ARV Mk1A's were produced?

Below is a colour pic with description of the ARV's converted on the Comet gun tank chassis. I seem to recall somewhere that they were called "Slurpie"? Anybody know how many were made? How many Comets were used by South Africa?

 

[Abraham Gubler]

How many Olifant ARV Mk1A's were produced?

Below is a colour pic with description of the ARV's converted on the Comet gun tank chassis. I seem to recall somewhere that they were called "Slurpie"? Anybody know how many were made? How many Comets were used by South Africa?

I think that info might be in this very thread but once you get to 30 odd pages its hard to keep up. Only about 20-30 Comets were brought by the SADF to equip the armoured recce regiment of their 1950s WWIII Iraq bound armoured division.

 

[kaiserbill]

I've seen this vehicle described as a Casspir 6x6 as well as the Lion.

It's fairly obvious it is a development of the Casspir. When was this vehicle developed? It sort of appears to be a link between the Casspir and the American Buffalo (the first pic appears to be a MACK built vehicle?), even down to the ancilliary equipment. Was this an amalgamation of a Reumech and Mechem design based on the Casspir? I've also heard it is based on the Wolf (WMF) and was trialed in 1998.

Did this evolve into the Buffalo?

 

[madmike]

What vehicle is this? Is it a Centurion ARV or an Olifant ARV development?

That's the Olifant ARV MK 1A converted from gun tanks (not from the Centurion ARV) several of which were built. Its a strange photo angle but it had a driver window.

nice draw. You made it?

 

[Rickshaw]

I've seen this vehicle described as a Casspir 6x6 as well as the Lion.

It's fairly obvious it is a development of the Casspir. When was this vehicle developed? It sort of appears to be a link between the Casspir and the American Buffalo, even down to the ancilliary equipment. Was this an amalgamation of a Reumech and Mechem design based on the Casspir? I've also heard it is based on the Wolf and was trialed in 1998.

Did this evolve into the Buffalo?

Several interesting features on that vehicle. In particularly the large "mudguards" look like they are actually extensions of the armoured v-shaped floor, obviously to help protect from blast caused when a wheel runs over a mine. The use of a two wheel rear bogie also suggests an effort to make the vehicle able to self-recover if one of the front wheels is lost, by providing a longer wheel base with an extra wheel on the lost side, providing a better distribution of weight.

I was interested in the Comet ARV photos as well. It appears to be rather heavily loaded to the rear, with the raised front. Initially I thought it might have been, in the first photos of the one mounted on the plinth, caused by spring sag but the other one showing it actually driving along the road shows the same effect so I wonder what weighs so much at the rear of the vehicle?