SNCAN (Nord) "Griffon" developments and other high-speed projects

[blackkite]

Oh I see. Thanks a lot.

 

[Justo Miranda]

My Griffon files

 

[Justo Miranda]

My Griffon Files-2

 

[blackkite]

Excellent my brilliant Justo-san.

 

[blackkite]

Hi! Nord 1520 Griffon III, version 1 Super Atar + 2 statos > Mach 3
http://www.master194.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=4&t=90541&start=100

 

[Motocar]

Cutaway SNCAN Nord 1500 Griffon, shared from blog: maquettes-missiles.blogspot author Jean Perald and cover french Aviation magazine 03-15-1959

 

[blackkite]

Hi! This combined engine had no particular name?

Have other nations developed jet engines like the Pratt & Whitney J-58?

Answer (1 of 2): Yes. This is the French Nord 1500 Griffon II: This aircraft used a mixed turbojet/ramjet propulsion, consisting of a Snecma Atar 101 turbojet surrounded by the ramjet chamber and burners. This combination allowed the Griffon to take off and reach a max speed of Mach 2.19 (2,330 ...

www.quora.com

 

[blackkite]

I found word "combines", "turbo" and "stato" in NORD M4 drawing engine explanation in FRENCH SECRET PROJECTS Post War Fighters.
So perhaps Nord M4 planned engine was a turbo ramjet engine. M51-30 or M51-45?

https://www.secretprojects.co.uk/attachments/nord-m-4-jpg.226234/

Attachments

• 
  P&W Inline Turbo-Ramjet.jpg
  65.3 KB Views: 19
• 

 

[hesham]

From Icare 1969

 

[hesham]

From Aviation magazine 1965.

 

[hesham]

From Aviation magazine 1967.

 

[Bazinga]

1969 Aviation Magazine

 

[Antonio]

1969 Aviation Magazine

Also see post#01 starting the thread

 

[blackkite]

Hi!
http://www.nags-gallery.com/cgi-bin/bbs39/bbs39.cgi?mode=past&year=2012&mon=12

 

[blackkite]

Hi!
Nord mach 3 SST proposal. It had four engines. Single vertical tail stabilizer design with clipped wing and twin vertical tail stabilizer design existed.
Unknown source.

https://www.secretprojects.co.uk/attachments/nord-mach-3-sst-jpg.1257/

https://www.secretprojects.co.uk/attachments/sncan-nord-mach-3-sst-3-view-wind-tunnel-model-aviation-magazine-international-no-jpg.130029/

 

[blackkite]

Hi!
Unknown source

 

[blackkite]

Hi! Nord M4.
http://maquette72.free.fr/amis/JCHoug/2017_30_minerve/index_ajch30.php
https://www.secretprojects.co.uk/threads/citrus90s-3d-drawings-of-unbuilt-aircraft.23936/page-6
Larger images please!!

 

[blackkite]

Hi! Nord Minerve.
http://duhraviationart.com/index.php/portfolio/minerve/

 

[acegeek9992]

Another Nord design, I've made a drawing from. It should have been able
to reach around Mach 4 :

Specific designation?

 

[Deltafan]

Another Nord design, I've made a drawing from. It should have been able
to reach around Mach 4 :

Specific designation?

For the moment only known as Nord "Minerve"

https://www.secretprojects.co.uk/threads/breguet-1180-and-other-projects-for-french-minerve-program.39105/post-525465

 

[hesham]

From Aviation magazine 1990.

 

[Bazinga]

From Aviation magazine 1990.

What a beast...!

 

[fightingirish]

Looking forward to the next April 2024 issue of Le Fana de l'Aviation.

https://twitter.com/x/status/1768366145055211877

View: https://twitter.com/Mirage4000B/status/1768366145055211877?t=JCPPlyS_YKqK1LWJswivew&s=19
Update:

https://twitter.com/x/status/1769702871967129876

View: https://x.com/FanaAviationMag/status/1769702871967129876?s=20
Update 2:
These two attachments are from their Facebook page.
Source / Link:

https://www.facebook.com/LeFanaDelAviationMagazine/posts/931866988941238

View: https://www.facebook.com/LeFanaDelAviationMagazine/posts/931866988941238/

 

[Deltafan]

Looking forward to the next April 2024 issue of Le Fana de l'Aviation.

The plane on the cover of Fana of April 2024 corresponds to the "Mach 3 two-seater" fighter (3 views drawing) in the middle of page 233 of the book French Secret Projects 1 by Mr. Carbonel.

 

[blackkite]

In the middle of page 233 of the book French Secret Projects 1 by Mr. Carbonel,
"By 1968 the Nord Aviation studies for a Mach 4 aircraft, often called the "Super Griffon" by the press, had evolved into this large delta machine."

 

[blackkite]

However,
"Fana 653 -April 2024 - Hypersonics!
From the Griffon to the Swordfish. The topic of hypersonics is very topical. Le Fana invites you to go back in time and study the work and achievements in France in the field since the 1950s. Here are the Nord Aviation projects from the Griffon, the Onera, here are the ASMP and ASMPA missiles. And finally, the Swordfish(l'Espadon). Objective: Mach 5!"

 

[Deleted member 4286]

The plane on the cover of Fana of April 2024 corresponds to the "Mach 3 two-seater" fighter (3 views drawing) in the middle of page 233 of the book French Secret Projects 1 by Mr. Carbonel.

Mach 5: poisson d'avril?

 

[Deltafan]

Mach 5: poisson d'avril?

No, but the cover shows a towards Mach 5 (Mach 3) transition plane and not a Mach 5 capable plane.

 

[Deltafan]

In the middle of page 233 of the book French Secret Projects 1 by Mr. Carbonel,
"By 1968 the Nord Aviation studies for a Mach 4 aircraft, often called the "Super Griffon" by the press, had evolved into this large delta machine."

No, as said with Monsieur Carbonel by Personal Messages at the time of the release of FSP 1, there are caption mistakes in the book.

The "1968 Nord Aviation studies for a Mach 4 aircraft, often called the "Super Griffon" by the press, and evolved into this large delta machine" matches the drawing at the top of the page and not the drawing in the middle of the page (The Nord plane on the cover of Le Fana, which is a delta, but not tailless, and capable of only Mach 3).

 

[Deleted member 4286]

No, but the cover shows a Mach 5 transition plane and not a Mach 5 capable plane.

The cover page is rather confusing but very nice; and in the article the speediest plane project mentioned is an hypothetical mach 4,2 Dassault (super) Mirage.

Mach5 transition plane= Mach 3 plane?

But, as always for "le fana", very good text to read and think about.

 

[Deleted member 4286]

The cover page is rather confusing but very nice; and in the article the speediest plane project mentioned is an hypothetical mach 4,2 Dassault (super) Mirage.

Mach5 transition plane= Mach 3 plane?

But, as always for "le fana", very good text to read and think about.

It's also funny that the article is published on April; as the Mach 4 Mirage article published on April 2008.

 

[Deltafan]

The cover page is rather confusing but very nice; and in the article the speediest plane project mentioned is an hypothetical mach 4,2 Dassault (super) Mirage.

Mach5 transition plane= Mach 3 plane?

But, as always for "le fana", very good text to read and think about.

At the end of the article Espadon is foreseen for Mach 5.

I wanted to say that the Nord Mach 3 project on the cover was a step towards the Espadon project, capable of Mach 5. But the article also mentions the Prepha program of the 90s on research to approach Mach 6. The same paragraph mentions the project AVG (Avion à Grande Vitesse/High Speed Aircraft), but without saying if Mach 6 was considered for it.

 

[blackkite]

I believe that Mach 3 cruise is very hard even now.

 

[Deleted member 4286]

At the end of the article Espadon is foreseen for Mach 5.

I wanted to say that the Nord Mach 3 project on the cover was a step towards the Espadon project, capable of Mach 5. But the article also mentions the Prepha program of the 90s on research to approach Mach 6. The same paragraph mentions the project AVG (Avion à Grande Vitesse/High Speed Aircraft), but without saying if Mach 6 was considered for it.

Any way, congratulations !

 

[Deleted member 4286]

At the end of the article Espadon is foreseen for Mach 5.

I wanted to say that the Nord Mach 3 project on the cover was a step towards the Espadon project, capable of Mach 5. But the article also mentions the Prepha program of the 90s on research to approach Mach 6. The same paragraph mentions the project AVG (Avion à Grande Vitesse/High Speed Aircraft), but without saying if Mach 6 was considered for it.

Those paper planes are very impressive; I am more overwhelmed by 50s-60s French achievements in the ramjet practical use as Stataltex or CT41.

 

[PhR]

I have some original plans from Arsenal and Nord-Aviation of projects for Mach 3 and Mach 4. All are planned to use turbo-ramjet engines, based on experience acquired with the Griffon, such as the ones attached. I have provided some of these plans to Jean-Christophe Carbonel to include in his book about French Secret Projects.
The article in Latest issue of le Fana magazine shows some of these projects as part of its overview.

 

[Deleted member 4286]

Those paper planes are very impressive; I am more overwhelmed by 50s-60s French achievements in the ramjet practical use as Stataltex or CT41.

Or the work on VERAS project.

 

[Deleted member 4286]

From "Gerfaut et Griffon, Conquêtes du statoréacteur et de l'aile delta en France, Serge Kaplan et Philipe Ricco, AVIA Editions"

 

[Deleted member 4286]

From "Gerfaut et Griffon, Conquêtes du statoréacteur et de l'aile delta en France, Serge Kaplan et Philipe Ricco, AVIA Editions"

 

[Deleted member 4286]

From "Gerfaut et Griffon, Conquêtes du statoréacteur et de l'aile delta en France, Serge Kaplan et Philipe Ricco, AVIA Editions"