Saab Gripen E/F (Gripen NG)

Apparently Sweden has been offering to possible F-35 buyers a Gripen-E but with its' GE F414G engine replaced with the Eurojet EJ230:


The Swedish manufacturer, Saab, confirmed to Global Defense Corp on 10 April that the Saab Gripen export customers receive all of the same high-end capabilities as the Swedish primary combat aircraft operator, responding to comments made by US President Donald Trump earlier in March when he referred to a ‘toned-down' version of the F-47 Next Generation Air Dominance (NGAD) combat aircraft for non-US customers. #Sweden #Gripen #Canada #Portugal #Colombia #Tariffs #tradewar #Saab #Trump #military #trending #canadianAirForce
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red admiral said:
No. I assume the customer is left to pay for its development and its integration into Gripen at hefty cost. I wonder whether there's even anyone in the Eurojet companies available to do this given they're also developing new fighter engines for GCAP and SCAF..
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If s new engine is going to be designed, then it would probably be better to take up GKNs initial proposal to build something better than an RM12, assuming the can do so without depending on US parts.
So far the US has not stopped a single Gripen project by blocking the engine.
They would not approve an AESA radar before the Norwegians made their choice.
 
NMaude said:
Apparently Sweden has been offering to possible F-35 buyers a Gripen-E but with its' GE F414G engine replaced with the Eurojet EJ230:
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YouTube recommended this video to me. I didn't watch it but searched cursorily for corroborating information elsewhere. At the time, I found none. As much as I'd like to see an entirely "Euro" version of the Gripen, it's a delicate proposition at best. Hope the Swedes are covertly working on that (years ago somewhere I already proposed a Ukrainian C/D tooling based version produced with Aero Vochody and such but didn't envision a re-engining) but I don't see the US approving any more sales of the current version (and there are several ongoing efforts) should a better, independent, competing alternative become available.
 
A.P.Richelieu said:
Does the EJ230 actually exist?
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It's certainly been proposed as the early growth option for the EJ200.

Which kinda brings me to another question: WHY hasn't there been a push from Typhoon users for uprated engines? The US has certainly kept increasing fighter engine power. Is it because Typhoon hasn't had as much weight gain?
 
Scott Kenny said:
It's certainly been proposed as the early growth option for the EJ200.

Which kinda brings me to another question: WHY hasn't there been a push from Typhoon users for uprated engines? The US has certainly kept increasing fighter engine power. Is it because Typhoon hasn't had as much weight gain?
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Because there wasn't a need? No big weight gains (or drag), no largely increased electrical ussages and no real need for extra Ränge until now. Any development was "wasted" money until now but LTE should be also including that.
 
Same exact story for Rafale, despite being a bomb truck from F2 standard, with weaker engines.
 
UpForce said:
YouTube recommended this video to me. I didn't watch it but searched cursorily for corroborating information elsewhere. At the time, I found none. As much as I'd like to see an entirely "Euro" version of the Gripen, it's a delicate proposition at best. Hope the Swedes are covertly working on that (years ago somewhere I already proposed a Ukrainian C/D tooling based version produced with Aero Vochody and such but didn't envision a re-engining) but I don't see the US approving any more sales of the current version (and there are several ongoing efforts) should a better, independent, competing alternative become available.
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So far, the US has not said anything that they want to block the engine.
As far as I understand, SAAB has a license to export the engine, with the exception of a list of countries like Russia, China and North Korea. The US can probably add to this list for security reasons, but not because they want to sell F-16s.
 
Archibald said:
idrw.org

EJ230 Engine: Eurojet’s High-Thrust Contender That Lost Out to GE F414 for Tejas MkII and AMCA MkI - Indian Defence Research Wing

SOURCE: AFI The EJ230, an advanced uprated variant of the proven Eurojet EJ200 engine, was once in the running to power India’s next-generation fighter platforms—the Tejas MkII and AMCA MkI. Designed to offer enhanced performance over the baseline EJ200 that powers the Eurofighter Typhoon, the...
idrw.org idrw.org
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That link is dead, at least to me.
 
A.P.Richelieu said:
As far as I understand, SAAB has a license to export the engine, with the exception of a list of countries like Russia, China and North Korea.
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I'd be surprised at that - even GE can't export the F414 without applying to the State Dept on a case by case basis.
 
A.P.Richelieu said:
That link is dead, at least to me.
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Disable your script blockers and CTRL+F5. Then it will whine about you using an adblocker, but click past that.

Not a lot of details, basically says that the EJ230 pitch didn't have as good a bid package. Had the thrust (72/102kN), but had fewer spares available (there are MANY F414s out there), was less more expensive, and apparently GE was willing to either set up a factory in India or license production in India.

edit:eek:ops.
 
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A.P.Richelieu said:
That link is dead, at least to me.
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The relevant bits ...

EJ230 Engine: Eurojet’s High-Thrust Contender That Lost Out to GE F414 for Tejas MkII and AMCA MkI

April 16, 2025

The EJ230, an advanced uprated variant of the proven Eurojet EJ200 engine, was once in the running to power India’s next-generation fighter platforms - the Tejas MkII and AMCA MkI. Designed to offer enhanced performance over the baseline EJ200 that powers the Eurofighter Typhoon, the EJ230 delivers a maximum wet thrust of approximately 102 kN, with a dry thrust rating of around 72 kN.

These performance figures placed the EJ230 firmly within the thrust class required by the Indian Air Force (IAF) for its upcoming fighter platforms, making it a serious contender during the tendering process for the Tejas MkII and the first variant of the Advanced Medium Combat Aircraft (AMCA).

Despite its impressive thrust-to-weight ratio, modular construction, and growth potential, the EJ230 ultimately lost out to the General Electric F414 engine. The F414, which powers several frontline fighters globally including the F/A-18E/F Super Hornet and Saab Gripen E, was selected for its lower cost, existing supply chain, and its ability to meet India’s performance and production requirements under the ‘Make in India’ initiative.

Sources indicate that the GE F414 offered a more economical package and was also backed by stronger industrial partnership terms, giving it an edge over Eurojet’s bid. The Eurojet consortium, led by Rolls-Royce and MTU Aero Engines, had proposed co-development and technology transfer, but GE’s offer underlined cost-efficiency and timely delivery as decisive factors.

[...]
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A.P.Richelieu said:
So far, the US has not said anything that they want to block the engine.
As far as I understand, SAAB has a license to export the engine, with the exception of a list of countries like Russia, China and North Korea. The US can probably add to this list for security reasons, but not because they want to sell F-16s.
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As Kiltonge implied, there are even recent examples of the kinds of US political and administrative scrutiny F414 exports are under. As the current US power structure is displaying significant personalized, mercurial, authoritarian and extortive tendencies, it could very well react in a retaliatory manner toward Sweden and SAAB solely upon the prospect of losing US national export control leverage over Gripen.

Thus Sweden and SAAB (and their non-US allies) have to weigh carefully the pros and cons of maintaining increasingly precarious anticipatory deference to the US regime in this regard. These quite unprecedented considerations are hardly Gripen-specific but apply to it as well. Also, Gripen E/F is just entering the service even with Sweden's own air force and I think they've also stated (or implied) that decisions about its successor will not be taken until 2031. I wonder whether the current environment and its long-term ramifications will expedite this process.

I have to admit to not even having considered juxtaposing Gripen E/F to the F-16, me referring to a "a better, independent, competing alternative" was solely in the context of a speculative "Euro" version of Gripen not under any US export purview.
 
UpForce said:
I have to admit to not even having considered juxtaposing Gripen E/F to the F-16, me referring to a "a better, independent, competing alternative" was solely in the context of a speculative "Euro" version of Gripen not under any US export purview.
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Germany screwed turkish eurogfighter order again literally yesterday.
To become functionally independent in aircraft manufacturing, you have to become France or even Russia(even Rafale isn't completely clean).
 
Ainen said:
To become functionally independent in aircraft manufacturing, you have to become France or even Russia(even Rafale isn't completely clean).
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And then you May never be fully independent on outsider because there is a good chance that even a lot of the critical base materials come from outside.
 
TomcatViP said:
Wouldn't that be easier to respect the rules of law and act fully as a democracy?

Don't damn the Germams for this.
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The thing is, we’d have much more leverage on Turkey once Eurofighter is confirmed. Blocking the deal could mean they go for someone else who is less likely to care about Turkish internal politics.
 
Thailand selects Gripen E/F as its next gen fighter:

www.saab.com

Royal Thai Air Force confirms selection of Saab’s Gripen E/F

The Royal Thai Air Force has today confirmed its selection of the Saab Gripen E/F as its new future multi-role fighter. Saab and the Swedish Defence Materiel Administration (FMV) will now follow the next steps in the procurement process with the Kingdom of Thailand.
www.saab.com www.saab.com

  • The deal involves twelve aircraft to be delivered over a ten-year period.
  • In addition to the aircraft themselves, Thailand will be involved in development and maintenance, and pilots and technicians will receive training.
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www.sverigesradio.se

Saabs vd: ”Otroligt positivt för våra andra kampanjer” - Ekot

Thailands flygvapen bekräftar att de valt Saabs Gripen som sitt framtida stridsflygplan. Affären innebär tolv plan som ska levereras under en tioårsperiod. ...
www.sverigesradio.se www.sverigesradio.se

Elsewhere, the press reported a 4 aircraft deal for €550M
 
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TomcatViP said:
Elsewhere, the press reported a 4 aircraft deal for €550M
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I guess it's the confirmation of the news that came out last year. It was mentioned that they will procure 4 E/F by 2029 and have a follow-up order to increase it to 12-aircraft strong force by 2034 so that they could replace F-16s operated by 102 Sqdr. from 2028.

Sensible choice. Not only the legacy Gripens, but also the backbone of their air force is built by SAAB using their system. Only makes sense to continue with more Gripens.
 
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Maro.Kyo said:
I guess it's the confirmation of the news that came out last year. It was mentioned that they will procure 4 E/F by 2029 and have a follow-up order to increase it to 12-aircraft strong force by 2034 so that they could replace F-16s operated by 102 Sqdr. from 2028.

Sensible choice. Not only the legacy Gripens, but also the backbone of their air force is built by SAAB using their system. Only makes sense to continue with more Gripens.
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Will the Gripen E even still be in production in 2034? I agree it makes sense to consolidate around a single type, unlike Thailand's regional neighbours Malaysia and Indonesia who seem to like Fighter jet soup.

Problem is the Thais have a lot of aircraft to replace. Unless their air force is going to shrink radically, or the F-5s, alphajets and early Blk F-16s are going to stay around longer, then an additional 12 Gripen E, which are different enough already to the C currently in service, is not going to be enough.

I expect a second airframe to bulk out the fleet, something like the FA-50, makes more sense but will the Thais have the funding...
 
Ozair said:
Will the Gripen E even still be in production in 2034? I agree it makes sense to consolidate around a single type, unlike Thailand's regional neighbours Malaysia and Indonesia who seem to like Fighter jet soup.

Problem is the Thais have a lot of aircraft to replace. Unless their air force is going to shrink radically, or the F-5s, alphajets and early Blk F-16s are going to stay around longer, then an additional 12 Gripen E, which are different enough already to the C currently in service, is not going to be enough.

I expect a second airframe to bulk out the fleet, something like the FA-50, makes more sense but will the Thais have the funding...
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Their plan is to procure replacement fighter in 3 stages. First stage is the Gripen E/F acquisition announced last year, replacing their oldest falcons from the '80s. Second stage will see the replacement of their F-5s between 2031 and 2035. After that, the remaining F-16A/Bs between 2037 and 2046.

I'm pretty sure they will want something stealthier for the third stage, though as for the second stage, 60 Gripems ordered by Flygvapnet is more than enough to keep the production running until Thailand proceeds with the second stage programme.

Flygvapnet was originally to receive Gripen E/F from 2018 until 2027. This was the plan in 2013, but since then the plan changed and the first Gripen actually came in 2023. If the procurement plan was exactly delayed by 5 years, and yearly production plan hasn't, that would mean that the production of Swedish Gripens will run at least until 2032. Now add to that 12 Thai Gripens. This also makes sense if we consider the fact that Sweden will only decide with how they'll proceed with their next generation fighter after 2030.

As for the Brazilian Gripens, it is not the question of if but when they will place the follow-on order, though they've licensed it and produces them locally, as in, it is not just CKD or SKD kits being imported from Sweden and being assembled in Brazil, but has a high percentage of parts manufactured in Brazil, so if Sweden wants to keep the production line at SAAB running, they'll need to find new customers.
 
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Maro.Kyo said:
Apparently the "restrictions" are mostly about which equipments may be used and which notbduring the exercise with China.
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Ugh, not sure they'll find much more export success with ideas like this.
Clients that won't mind that are switching to F-35, and for Thailand it's a bad surprise after the announcement.

Guess they're protecting raven and arexis (both bound to find their way onto eurofighter), or showing that they're NATO now, but this will further decrease relative attractiveness of this aircraft.
 
Attractiveness is when your aircraft performs as expected when tested in anger. This englobes the rightfulness of discipline.
 
TomcatViP said:
Attractiveness is when your aircraft performs as expected when tested in anger. This englobes the rightfulness of discipline.
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Only customers who even consider gripen E/F are budget-minded neutral countries.
They don't buy gripens to use them in anger, they buy them to stay away from anger.
"No exercises with China" by itself is a red flag for them.
 
Ainen said:
Only customers who even consider gripen E/F are budget-minded neutral countries.
They don't buy gripens to use them in anger, they buy them to stay away from anger.
"No exercises with China" by itself is a red flag for them.
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It's not "no exercises with China," it's "you cannot use the following equipment in exercises with China"
 
It's to limit what the Chinese aircraft can "sniff" out of the Gripen E.
I recall something similar happened 20 years ago when Indian Flankers visited the US and could not use its radars in exercises with US planes.
 
Scott Kenny said:
It's not "no exercises with China," it's "you cannot use the following equipment in exercises with China"
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I would imagine that Thailand, like most other armed forces, doesn't use the full capabilities of their aircraft and equipment when conducting exercises with foreign air forces. This seems more like a minor point that nonetheless has to be put into the contract rather than something that Thailand is going to take issue with.
 
alberchico said:
I would imagine that Thailand, like most other armed forces, doesn't use the full capabilities of their aircraft and equipment when conducting exercises with foreign air forces. This seems more like a minor point that nonetheless has to be put into the contract rather than something that Thailand is going to take issue with.
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I would assume so as well. You always want to keep a bit in reserve in international wargames, just to hide the edges of what you can do.
 
Scott Kenny said:
I would assume so as well. You always want to keep a bit in reserve in international wargames, just to hide the edges of what you can do.
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Certainly, but the moment small neutral supplier starts placing partisan conditions, he turns into small partisan supplier.
IKEA discounts aren't worth that much.
 

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