I really should change my personal text
- Oct 25, 2013
- Reaction score
I don't want a waste of time tit-for-tat exchange, I would just ask you consider different perspectives rather than the line you are getting from some very specific sources.sferrin said:No, not really. If you've gutted your military so you can spend it on social programs that's not called "holding up your end". (How many operational tanks and fighters does Germany have? Operational mind you.)kaiserd said:It could be argued. Incorrectly, ignorantly or willing misleadingly so argued.
Germany has not gutted its military to spend on social programs; that is definitively not true.
Following the end of the Cold War Germany cut it military spending as its principal threat had collapsed and it had to pay for reunification with East Germany.
In addition was the consideration of trying to avoid tensions with the emergent Russian federation etc.
Was Germany to slow in reacting to Putin regime. Yes, but they are reacting.
An Putin knows they are and recognizes Merkel as one of his principal opponents, hence all the vitriol directed at her by Russian-influenced far right groups.
Unfortunately including by certain supporters of the current US President which he then ignorantly parrots.
No, but it is factually correct to say that if they can't field a fighting force commensurate with their GDP and population that they aren't holding up their end. [/QUOTE]kaiserd said:It is factually incorrect to say any NATO nation spending less than 2 percent is breaching an actual commitment.
Germany itself recognizes it needs to spend more on defense and is moving up to the 2% level.
But it can't just double its defense spending and even if it could that would hardly ease tensions with Russia.
And it is German voters that get to decide what is or is not commensurate with their GDP, not allies, particularly false friend friends like you and President Trump.
(By the way I'm not German.)
If only it were dollars that shot down aircraft or defended terrain. Unfortunately it's tanks, planes, and missiles. Does Germany have as many of those as Russia? Will Germany be buying as many missiles, planes, ships, and armored vehicles as Russia? Nuclear weapons? No? What was your point again? [/QUOTE]kaiserd said:And to put in context Germany is ramping up its spending to that figure and when it does so its defense spending will significantly outstrip Russia’s defense spending (whose GDP is about the same as Italy’s).
My point is that current and projected Russian defense spending is unsustainable apart from via authoritarian rule and it is dubious that even that can sustain it that long.
Germany, like all Western countries including the US, have different factors at play.
Germany will have smaller, generally more professional, better paid and better equipped armed forces than the likes of Russia, and it will be able to sustain the associated level of spending and not have to primarily rely on diminishing standards of living to do so.
I never said I think what Trump is doing is "normal". We didn't want business as usual. That's why we put him in power. That's why we'll do it again in 2020. This isn't rocket science.kaiserd said:As for TDS nonsense if you think what Trump is doing is normal and wise then you are the fool drinking the Fox/ ultra right wing cool-aid, parroting the most convoluted inconsistent positions.
Rather like “good” communists trying to keep their opinions consistent with the USSRs shifting positions.
Look, the bottom line is the EU has more people and, collectively, a greater GDP than the US. Explain to me again why a single US soldier or aircraft should be in Europe.
There are many many salient reasons why US forces in Europe are mutually beneficial to the defense of both the US and Europe.
I will give you one very basic reason as an example.
One of the US's principal opponents (Putin's regime) doesn't want them to be there. Hence Russia's covert support for those also looking to remove them. Including but not limited to attempts to influence the US presidential election.
In this regard President Trump is at best a dupe, and you're a dupe a few times removed.
IF a Democratic President had similar attitudes (calling it a policy or policies is suggesting more coherence than is actually the case) you know you would be screaming your head-off, calling people traitors, calling for impeachment etc.
You know you and your fellow travelers on this site already did so for on an infinitesimal less valid basis for President Obama.
I would suggest you try to consider for a moment your reaction if similar attitudes/ policies were coming from some one you didn't consider "your guy", particularly before you go parroting and promoting them.